Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

berndd11222

Hi Stefan

I read Pan Czapskis message in Polish last night and found it very
amusing.

Dabrowski/Dombrowski is a very common name in Poland.

Pan Cazpski needs an update on my family background.

My dads father Bernard Dombrowski came to the US in 1886. His baptism
in 1875 is recorded in the records of St. Katherines Roman catholic
Church in Christburg Germany. His marriage to my grandmother Halina
Kawecynksa in July 1903 is recorded in the records of St. Stanislaus
church in Nanticoke Pa. My grandmother came here in 1891 from Warsaw.

My moms family is of German Protestant origin. Her ancestors were
in the US during the 18th Century.

Thanks for sending the translation.

Barney Dombrowski

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Stefan Wisniowski
<swisniowski@p...> wrote:
Wladyslaw writes:

I live in Wroclaw Poland,  But behind me is my road as a child withAnders'
Army.

The history of Mr Dabrowski [Dombrowski?] is known to me.

His two sons and their mother only returned to Poland in 1956.

Mr Dabrowski is no longer alive, but his daughter born in Israellives in
the USA today.

Do you know of this history?

Regards
WS Czapski

From: "Wladyslaw Czapski" <czapski@t...>
Subject: ODP: ODP: [Kresy-Siberia] Request for information on JewsinAnders
Army

Ja z?yje we Wroclawiu Polska.
Ale mam za soba? droge? jako dziecko przy Armii Andersa.
Znana mi jest historia Pan Da?browskiego.
Jego dwoje synowie wrócili z matka do Polski w 1956 roku dopiero.
Sam Pan Da?browski juz? nie z?yje ale jego córka urodzona w Izraeluz?yje
dzis? w USA.
Czy zna Pan tej przypadek.
Pozdrawiam.
W.S.Czapski

Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

#6798

Dear Barney,
I also think that these matters should be discussed in
a public forum, in a responsible and open manner.

Thank you for clarifying your original message. I did
not make the connection between the books and your
statement about the treatement of Jews in Anders Army.

Andy Golebiowski
Buffalo, NY
USA

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:11:40 -0000
From: "berndd11222" <berndd11222@...>
Subject: Re: Request for information on Jews in 
Anders ArmyThis is the text of the message I originaly posted.Hi Bob,					There are three books that I can recommend								
Facing a Holocaust by David Engel				In the Shadow of Auschwitz by David Engel			Unequal Victims by Israel Gutman									
The Jews had a tough time in the Anders army. Most 
were subject	to anti-semetic abuse and left. 									
Barney Dombrowski					--------------------------------------------------------------------
AndyThe three books I mentioned cite numerous examples of
anti-semitism in the Polish Army in the west. The two books by Engel cover the history the Polish 
Government in London policy toward the Jews. 
According to Engel the London Poles 
did little or nothing to deal with the problem of 
anti-semitism in the Polish Army. The book Unequal Victims covers the issue of the 
relations between Poles and Jews during the war. It 
is a scathing expose of anti-semitsim in wartime 
Poland. The comments I made last night were based on the 
accounts of ant-semitism detailed in these books. I 
believe that this issue should be discussed in a 
public forum.
Barney Dombrowski__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

Czortkow Bolechow in Ukraine pre 1939

Tomasz Wi?niewski

#6797

开云体育

Czortkow Bolechow in Ukraine pre 1939

?

I just added new photo albums

?

Tomek Wisniewski

Bialystok Poland

Re: Welcome Stefan Kloczko

#6796

Hello Stefan Kloczko.  I am Hela who used to help Marek run the travel office in Manchester!!!!!

Bye 4 now Hela.

From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Welcome Stefan Kloczko
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:18:01 +1000
_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends

Re: Jews in Anders Army

Tilford Bartman

#6794

开云体育

Eve5J@... wrote:

I think that Tilford Bartman hit the nail on the head yesterday with his refreshing, and I feel correct, perspective.? Jewish soldiers deserting did so not because of anti-Semitism, but because of an allegiance to Palestine rather than Poland.

There was no time for anti-Semitism in the USSR.? The primary thing was survival--to keep your family alive and to find food.? The Army was concerned with training and transport out of the USSR.? The Army needed as many able-bodied men and women as it could get--there were many more critical matters of concern than ethnicity.?

Eve Jankowicz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you have to look at this issue in historical context, and not
just from a 21 century concept of human rights and political correctness.

I think that many of the Jewish soldiers who deserted to Palestine had relatives there or friends who were from their towns in Poland. Also they were very badly needed there by the Jewish underground forces who anticipated a desperate battle with the arabs for survival of the Jewish "remnant". Also in Palestine they knew that they would have a home among Jews where one day they could rebuild their lives. If they remained with the Anders Army what would be their ultimate fate at the end of the war?? I think most of those that deserted did so simply because they thought it was the right thing to do. As I understand it many of their Polish Christian fellow solders had at least some understanding of this.

Also I just want to emphasize again that by putting anti semitism in the Anders Army in historical context is not to minimize or excuse it. Fortunately today it's a somewhat different world. I pray that never again will Polish or Jewish people be faced with such desperate situations, but that both will enjoy normalcy. Unfortunately I feel that for Jews that is still a somewhat illusive goal.

Tilford

Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

Stefan Wisniowski

#6795

Wladyslaw writes:

I live in Wroclaw Poland, ?But behind me is my road as a child with Anders' Army.

The history of Mr Dabrowski [Dombrowski?] is known to me.

His two sons and their mother only returned to Poland in 1956.

Mr Dabrowski is no longer alive, but his daughter born in Israel lives in the USA today.

Do you know of this history?

Regards
WS Czapski

Show quoted text

From: "Wladyslaw Czapski" <czapski@...>
Subject: ODP: ODP: [Kresy-Siberia] Request for information on Jews inAnders Army

Ja z?yje we Wroclawiu Polska.
Ale mam za soba? droge? jako dziecko przy Armii Andersa.
Znana mi jest historia Pan Da?browskiego.
Jego dwoje synowie wrócili z matka do Polski w 1956 roku dopiero.
Sam Pan Da?browski juz? nie z?yje ale jego córka urodzona w Izraelu z?yje dzis? w USA.
Czy zna Pan tej przypadek.
Pozdrawiam.
W.S.Czapski

Welcome Stefan Kloczko

Stefan Wisniowski

#6793

Please welcome Stefan Kloczko to the group.

Stefan, we have a number of members from the Manchester area.  Do you
already know George Neisser at the University?

Stefan WIsniowski

PS We'd better sign with our full names as there are now 3 or 4 Stefans in
the group!

Show quoted text

From: "Kloczko, Stefan" <Stefan.Kloczko@...>
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:47:23 +0100
To: 'Stefan Wisniowski' <swisniowski@...>
Subject: RE: Kresy-Siberia Group

My name is Stefan Kloczko.
I am 40 years old and I was born here in Manchester, England.

My father (born 1912, near Suwalki) fought in the Defence of Warsaw and
subsequently spent five years in a POW camp in Germany.
My mother (born 1925, near Hermanowicze in Wilenszczyzna) was taken by the
Germans in 1943 to a forced labour camp in Germany.
Eventually, they made their way to England where they met, married and
started a family.

Other members of my family were also suffered during the war.
For example, my uncle narrowly survived Sachsenhausen concentration camp and
my wife's great-uncle was murdered at Katyn.

In Manchester, I am an active member of the Polish community - and I am a
committee member of the Polish Ex-Servicemen's Association.

My reason for being interested in the Kresy-Siberia Group is that I have
always been keen to learn as much as possible about my Fatherland's history.

Best regards,

Stefan.

Welcome Daria Sikorski

Stefan Wisniowski

#6792

Please welcome Daria Sikorski to the group. ?Daria with that last name, can you tell us more about your family and their experiences?

Regards,
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator

Show quoted text

----------
From: "Dar"
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:07:05 -0400
To:
Subject: membership

My name is Daria Sikorski and I live in Pennnsylvania, USA. I am interested in the group because my mother and her family were some of the deprotees to Siberia.

Have a wonderful day,

Daria Sikorski

Welcome back Jerry Schneider

Stefan Wisniowski

#6791

Please welcome back Jerry Schneider to the group.  I hope that we can learn
from each other's research.  Jerry, were any of your family evacuated to
Persia with the Polish Army?

We invite you to  commemorate those in your family who were from Poland
between the wars and who suffered at the hands of the Soviets.  Please visit
the Memorial Wall at  to do so.

Regards
Stefan Wisniowski 

----------

Show quoted text

From: Jerry Schneider <jerry.schneider@...>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:13:10 -0400
To: swisniowski@...
Subject: Membership in Kresy-Siberia Group

My name is Jerry Schneider and I live in Burke, VA USA, a suburb of
Washington, DC.

Several of my family lines come from Poland or the Pale of Settlement,
including the towns of Izbica, Zolkiewka, Ratno, Bialystok, Kowel and others.

I was one of the early members of the Kresy-Siberia group because "family
lore" indicated that several family lines were "sent to Siberia".  At that
time, however, the only deportations I was able to confirm were to areas
around Zlatoust, work camps in the Urals.  Because of this, I discontinued
my membership.

Now, three years later, I have identified several family branches that had
been sent to Siberia, to, I am told, Novasibirsk and adjacent towns.

I am hopeful that my participation in this group will assist me in
documenting the travails of my ancestors and better understand the lives
that they led.  It is my goal to document as much as I can about my
ancestors to make sure that they -- and their lives -- will be remembered
and understood.

Some of the family lines that I am researching are SZNAJDERMAN, ROJTMAN,
NUDEL, DRUKH (or DRUG).

From my research thus far, virtually ALL of my Eastern European family
members were victims of the Holocaust and Russian subjugation.  Ironically,
it appears that the only family lines to survive were those sent Eastward
by the Soviets.

That's it for now ...

- jerry

Re: A Question of Honor, The Kosciuszko Squadron, Forgotten Heroes of World War II

Lisa Blenkinsop

#6790

Dear Group,

In the UK, the book 'A Question of Honor'? is published under the name 'Four Your Freedom and Ours' - there was a review of it in The Times cultural section last Sunday.

Best wishes

Lisa Blenkinsop (Lancaster, UK)

>From: "feb10transport"

>Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...

>To: Kresy-Siberia@...

>Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] A Question of Honor, The Kosciuszko Squadron, Forgotten Heroes of World War II

>Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 05:22:17 -0000

>

>Dear Group,

>In commemoration of Polish American Heritage month (October) the

>Polish American Congress of Southern Californian in conjunction with

>the Polish Consulate in Los Angeles and the Polish Fighters

>Association has invited the authors of the book, A Question of

>Honor, Lynne Olson and Stanley Cloud, for a book signing. This

>event will be held on Oct. 22 at the Parish hall of Our Lady of

>Bright Mountain Church, Los Angeles at 7pm.

>I would strongly recommend this book to the members of the KS

>group. It tells it like it is. That is to say it talks about the

>abandonment of Poland by its closest allies, Great Britain and the

>United States.

>The theme in this book not only covers Poland's participation in the

>Battle of Britain. It goes on to describe Polands victories and

>defeats and dovetails significantly into the video which launched

>this group, The Forgottten Odyssey.

>The book which is 480 pages long is available at Amazon.com

>Take care.

>Rich Widerynski

>

Protect your PC from e-mail viruses.

Tergeru Photos

julek2205

#6789

To All:

There are now 34 new Photos posted on the Tergeru under the 
Fedorowicz family site.

Julek

ODP: Imagine

Wladyslaw Czapski

#6787

开云体育

look:

copy orginal dokument.

?

?---------ooo-(.)(.)-ooo---------
?INFO SERVICE POLAND (1981)Mr. W.S.? CZAPSKI
? 50-983 WROCLAW 14??????????? P.O.BOX? 1954
TEL/FAX/BBS:+48 (71) 3383838
???? mobile:+48 (601) 511109
???? e-mail: czapski@...??????
NOWA?
NEWS !! Offices moving = Biura ruchome24h? NEW ADRES !!
Exchange :voice, text, fax, foto, video, e-mail, internt, SMS. .
Obizamy koszt i czas wymiany informacji 24h.
Prosz? w "Temat" korespondencji wpisa? streszczenie-dostan? SMS do komórke.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>-:)end

?

Show quoted text

-----Oryginalna wiadomo??-----
Od: Barb Kwietniowski [mailto:barbkwie@...]
Wys?ano: 6 pa?dziernika 2003 06:53
Do: Kresy-Siberia@...
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] Imagine

Dear Group,

I was thinking today about the many stories in our families.?One such story in my family tells how my grandmother had to catch up with the last group of people who were leaving for Persia.? She had five children, no food and almost a week's journey.? It was one of those - I have to write a poem moments.? I'd like to share it with you.

?

Imagine

?

Imagine being woken from deep sleep by pounding on the door.

Imagine your fear when you understand what it means.?

What do you pack for a trip to hell?

?

Imagine saying good-bye to your mother as you leave.

In her pain she thrusts her kerchief in your hands.

“It might be cold where you’re going.? You’ll need it.”

?

From a frozen wasteland, you recall her face.

You struggle to stay alive.

You struggle to feed your children.

?

Imagine trading everything you own for a scrap of food,

Now there is nothing left,

Just an old black kerchief.

?

Did she know it would yield two cabbages?

Did she know it would keep her grandchildren alive

So they could catch a boat to freedom?

?

Imagine

One kerchief, two cabbages.

A mother’s love.

?

?

My grandmother was left with nothing of her mother's not even a picture.? She never?saw her mother again - she was killed by the Banderowcy.

But......my grandmother went on to?live a long life in England.??My?aunts and uncles have a total of 10 kids between them, a bunch of grandchildren and even a few great-granchildren.? Not a bad return?on an old black kerchief!?

?

Barb Kwietniowski
Courtice, Ontario, Canada

* KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two." * Discussion site : Gallery (photos, documents) : Film and info : * To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to: Kresy-Siberia-owner@... *

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Imagine

Barb Kwietniowski

#6786

开云体育

Dear Group,

I was thinking today about the many stories in our families.?One such story in my family tells how my grandmother had to catch up with the last group of people who were leaving for Persia.? She had five children, no food and almost a week's journey.? It was one of those - I have to write a poem moments.? I'd like to share it with you.

?

Imagine

?

Imagine being woken from deep sleep by pounding on the door.

Imagine your fear when you understand what it means.?

What do you pack for a trip to hell?

?

Imagine saying good-bye to your mother as you leave.

In her pain she thrusts her kerchief in your hands.

“It might be cold where you’re going.? You’ll need it.”

?

From a frozen wasteland, you recall her face.

You struggle to stay alive.

You struggle to feed your children.

?

Imagine trading everything you own for a scrap of food,

Now there is nothing left,

Just an old black kerchief.

?

Did she know it would yield two cabbages?

Did she know it would keep her grandchildren alive

So they could catch a boat to freedom?

?

Imagine

One kerchief, two cabbages.

A mother’s love.

?

My grandmother was left with nothing of her mother's not even a picture.? She never?saw her mother again - she was killed by the Banderowcy.

But......my grandmother went on to?live a long life in England.??My?aunts and uncles have a total of 10 kids between them, a bunch of grandchildren and even a few great-granchildren.? Not a bad return?on an old black kerchief!?

?

Barb Kwietniowski
Courtice, Ontario, Canada

Tergeru Photos

julek2205

#6785

To All:

Additional 8 photos were just posted on the Tergeru site under the 
Fedorowicz album. Keep checking for additional photos which will be 
posted in the future until approx a total of 85 photos will be posted 
under that album.
Please thank Dianne for sharing her photos with all of us.

Julek

Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

berndd11222

#6784

Hi Eugene

My comments of last night about anti-semitism in the Anders Army were
based on writers who were not concerned with the day to day 
operations in a military unit. They cited complaints by people who
claimed that they had been subject to abuse. They mentioned the fact
that most Jews that deserted in Palestine.

After reading the responses to my comments of last night I believe
I need to have a better understanding of the history of the Anders 
Army and look forward to reading your book and the one by Sarner.  

Did you know a George Bachinsky in Italy? I worked him about
thirty years ago. He mentioned his ordeal in the USSR and service
in Italy with the Polish Army.

Regards

Barney Dombrowski 





--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Ab4uz@a... wrote:
    Dear Barney,
    My name is Eugene Lachocki and I was in Gen. Anders Army for 5 years.
I never heard or witnessed any mistreatment of Jews. In fact, we had two 
Jewish very efficient transportation companies delivering necessary ammunition and 
other articles required at the front. Several Jews were in my 11th Signal 
Corps unit. All Jews came with us from USSR as Polish citizens and some of them 
after the war came here to USA. They are my good friends.
    Unfortunately, there were some cases in our unit, when Jewish soldiers 
were steeling arms and escaping to Palestine to fight British occupation. Our 
military police closed their ayes and didn't look for deserters.
    You should read my book "NO RETURN" and learn about the II World War in 
Italy.
    Z uszanowaniem,
    Kpt. Eugene Lachocki

Re: Jews in Anders Army

#6788

I think that Tilford Bartman hit the nail on the head yesterday with his refreshing, and I feel correct, perspective.? Jewish soldiers deserting did so not because of anti-Semitism, but because of an allegiance to Palestine rather than Poland.

There was no time for anti-Semitism in the USSR.? The primary thing was survival--to keep your family alive and to find food.? The Army was concerned with training and transport out of the USSR.? The Army needed as many able-bodied men and women as it could get--there were many more critical matters of concern than ethnicity.?

Eve Jankowicz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think you have to look at this issue in historical context, and not
just from a 21 century concept of human rights and political correctness.

Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

berndd11222

#6783

This is the text of the message I originaly posted.

Hi Bob,					
					
There are three books that I can recommend			
		
Facing a Holocaust by David Engel				
	
In the Shadow of Auschwitz by David Engel			
		
Unequal Victims by Israel Gutman				
	
The Jews had a tough time in the Anders army. Most were subject	
				
to anti-semetic abuse and left. 				
	
Barney Dombrowski					
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy

The three books I mentioned cite numerous examples of anti-semitism
in the Polish Army in the west. 

The two books by Engel cover the history the Polish Government in 
London policy toward the Jews. According to Engel the London Poles 
did little or nothing to deal with the problem of anti-semitism in 
the Polish Army. 

The book Unequal Victims covers the issue of the relations 
between Poles and Jews during the war. It is a scathing expose
of anti-semitsim in wartime Poland. 

The comments I made last night were based on the accounts of
ant-semitism detailed in these books. I believe that this 
issue should be discussed in a public forum.

Barney Dombrowski

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Andy Golebiowski 
<andywbuffalo@y...> wrote:
Barney,
Without providing sources and statistics, your
statement unfortunately remains a most irresponsible
opinion stated in a public forum.

I will stand corrected if you can provide evidence 
for your statement "most were subject to anti-semitic
abuse..." 

Thanks,
Andy Golebiowski
Buffalo, NY
USA

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:38:05 -0000
From: "berndd11222" <berndd11222@y...>
Subject: Re: Request for information on Jews in 
Anders ArmyThe Jews had a tough time in the Anders army. Most 
were subject to anti-semetic abuse and left.  Barney Dombrowski__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

Re: Request for information on Jews in Anders Army

#6782

Barney,
Without providing sources and statistics, your
statement unfortunately remains a most irresponsible
opinion stated in a public forum.

I will stand corrected if you can provide evidence 
for your statement "most were subject to anti-semitic
abuse..." 

Thanks,
Andy Golebiowski
Buffalo, NY
USA


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:38:05 -0000
From: "berndd11222" <berndd11222@...>
Subject: Re: Request for information on Jews in 
Anders ArmyThe Jews had a tough time in the Anders army. Most 
were subject to anti-semetic abuse and left.  Barney Dombrowski__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search

Re: Jozef Pilsudski's writings

berndd11222

#6781

Hi Eve

Pilsudski's memoirs( in English) are available for sale.
Check the ABE webpage. 

Barney Dombrowski

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Eve5J@a... wrote:
Hello Group -

Does anyone know if Pilsudski wrote any books, and if so how many?  What were 
their titles?  I am wondering about a Pilsudski excerpt in the book Stalin's 
Ethnic Cleansing on page 423, for those who have the book.  Is anyone aware if 
the following is from a speech or a book written by Pilsudski:

"There are wounds and scars, scars and wounds.  There are physical wounds and 
scars and there are also spiritual ones.  It is hard to know which one smarts 
or which one aches the more.  ..."   

Then the book says this is taken from the Preface of 'Poland to Invalids,' 
and is dated 18 April 1925.  Was "Poland to Invalids" a book or a speech, and 
does anyone know what the subject was?  I am wondering about the title.  Was 
"Poland to Invalids" translated correctly?  Is there anyone in the group that is 
familiar with this particular quote or writing of Pilsudski?

If Pilsudski did write books, I don't suppose any have been translated to 
English.  What an orator he was.  It is very easy to see how he was such an 
inspiration to the troops and the entire country.

Eve Jesionka Jankowicz
USA

Stalin's Ethnic Cleansing

#6780

Group -

I meant to add in my previous post that we are still working on having this book made available to all.? We will inform the group as soon as this takes place.

Eve