Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

Barbara Milligan

Krasnovodsk is the name by which Krasnovodsk was known when our families were mustered there to embark for Pahlevi. ?There were camps nearby which were largely for the civilians according to members of my family who were there.

Basia (UK)

Show quoted text

On 6 Mar 2013, at 06:20, Krystyna Mew wrote:

?

Hi Mark

Turkmenbasy is what was formerly known as Krasnovodsk and is in Turkmenistan.

Krystyna Mew
France

From: Mark <turkiewiczm@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Thanks KM, your dad was a funny guy.
Questions:
Is this place near Kazahkstan? Thats where my dads mom was in a kolkhoz.
What was in Turkmenistan, was it training for the young guys?
The date is close my dad's start date with Anders.
?
Mark T.
Canada

From: Witold J Lukaszewski <wjlukaszewski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:20:32 PM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Krysiu,

You must be referring to Blagovieshchenka, near Dzalal-Abad, in south-western Kyrgizstan, where the 5th Division was stationed. Bagovieszczensk is in far eastern part of Russia, on the Russo-Chinese border.

Witek

On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Krystyna Mew wrote:

?

Hi Mark My father was part of a group who was involved in liquidating the camp in Blagoveshchensk.? He obviously wasn't very pleased about it! See some more below. Blagoveshchensk 7th August 1942 As usually happens, all this talk about going away finally came true. The lieutenant gave a long and boring talk to let us know that we should get rid of our Soviet girlfriends and get rid of all our Russian money. The next day the travel alert was announced. We were each given an extra blanket, a cloth uniform, shoe soles and a second pair of shoes and a lot of other unnecessary stuff which couldn??????˙t be packed in any way. When the regiment finally went on its way, everybody looked like a pack mule or like an Uzbek donkey. Why is it that an overloaded person has such an infinitely stupid look on his face? I??????˙m saying the regiment went on its way, because I stayed behind; 230 of us were left as the company whose job it was to liquidate the camp. The chief saw that I could drive a car, so he assigned me to the horses. This is the worst possible work; to clean out their feet and water them during the daytime and at night to be on stand-by in the stables. Horses from the entire regiment herded together, hungry, struggling and biting each other. It??????˙s a horrible job. I can barely walk. All the other gear such as tents, kitchen stuff and medical equipment has already been returned to the warehouse, but there is no commission to receive the horses. Krasnovodsk [now Tu?‘?√?rkmenbas?‘?§y, Turkmenistan] 15th August 1942 We left! Just in time. As usual everything had to be done at great speed. We had to go quickly to the regiment headquarters, pack quickly and before I could look around, we were on our way. As usual during travel, I manage somehow to keep going in spite of my sickness and then we will see. My only aim is to arrive there. Six days in a train. This time we were in a carriage, which means that for the entire time there was no way to lie down, not even for a moment. As if in a dream I could see images typical of East Asia: the desert, sharp rugged mountains in some improbable colours and shapes, like some strange theatrical decorations and people in colourful Eastern clothing: Uzbeks, Kyrgyzstanis, Kazaks and a few lesser known tribes. I am sorry that I was unable to remember any details of their clothing. Some girls, young women, dressed in rich attire; they were very pretty, even beautiful. Their beauty was wild, burnt by the sun and very oriental and they were so young and delicate. But we didn??????˙t even have time to look at them. We are now sitting surrounded by sand, a few kilometres from the port and we are waiting for a boat. The sea is dirty and full of oil; the sand is dirty too. There are plenty of empty cans and all sorts of rubbish, but the worst thing is that there is no drinking water. We have a lot of money, roubles and high denomination notes. We have to get rid of them quickly. As for myself I didn??????˙t have much anyway, but the civilians who also congregate here have their pockets loaded with money and whilst they are afraid to keep it, they don??????˙t want to give it back to the Russians, so they are eager to give it to us. We buy red wine with it, crazily expensive, but good. We drink it instead of water all day.

'Lost BetweenWorlds' Edward Herzbaum pages 122-123

Krystyna Mew
France

From: Mark <turkiewiczm@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Thanks for posting this Krystyna.
If the men were enlisted quickly on arrival in Persia, then my dad was on the same ship. His enlistment date in Anders is Aug 22
?
Mark T. Canada

From: Krystyna Mew <krystynamew@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:02:12 AM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Hi Stefan My father traveled on the ship Czicerin on August 17th, arriving in Pahlevi 19th ( see below) if anyone wants to add the name of the ship. From 'Lost Between Worlds' by Edward Herzbaum. pages 124-126 'The Caspian Sea 17th August 1942 On board ?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞??‰?∑???Cziczerin?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??. It?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??s an old wreck crawling across the Caspian Sea, its last effort. We were pushed into the innards of this monster, but I escaped to the deck. Down below it looks like a live picture of Dante?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??s ?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞??‰?∑???Inferno?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??. In half darkness you can see a lot of incredible figures, sweaty, shining, naked bodies. All you can hear is the sound of heavy breathing and the splashing of waves against the ship?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??s hull. The air can be cut with a knife. This cannot be described. One immediately feels that one is going to suffocate; wide-open mouths try in vain to catch just a little bit of air. On the deck the sun is burning, but at least one can breathe. The sea and the sky are beautiful, close and clean, quite different from how it was in Krasnovodsk. Close to me in the lounge there is an old concert piano. It is on this antique instrument that someone I don?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t know is playing Chopin. His fingers are stiff, sometimes he makes a mistake, but his playing is wonderful; I can?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t stop listening. Later on, I have to leave for a while and when I come back to the lounge, the music has changed to popular melodies. Of course I thought that it was somebody else playing, because I thought that it couldn?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t be possible, but no, it was the same fellow. I cursed him silently and I reproached myself that I could be listening and admiring someone like this. Later he was playing Chopin again, effortlessly and very cleanly as if he was beyond any reproach. I wanted to run away but I couldn?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t. God damn him. The Middle East Pahlevi, Persia [now Bandar-e-Anzali, Iran] 19th August 1942 At last, finally, we are in Persia. After three years we have got out of the red paradise of the Soviet Republic which is aptly called the country of modernised misery and organised famine. We walk around sleepily with half-closed eyes, we are not quite awake yet and we can?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t quite believe it when we see the concrete buildings of the port and people who are cleanly and decently dressed; at policemen in their slightly comical, exotic grey uniforms; at the shop windows which are full of everything, and there are no queues! We are only now getting used to the world again. Even during the journey we were being fed with the canned English food, but everything has now changed and we get cocoa for breakfast and fresh dates, biscuits, white bread, sausage etc. We can?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t believe it when we eat. I feel like a criminal who was serving a life sentence and who was suddenly released one quiet, sunny afternoon. We take deep breaths all the way to the bottom of our lungs. We are standing around, warming ourselves and looking around us, but we don?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t want to think yet. There will be time for that too. Anyway, the uniform keeps me tethered and disciplined. Sometimes I have all sorts of silly and unnecessary thoughts. It means that my brain, asleep for several years or smothered by hunger, has begun to work again or at least some part of my consciousness has. But I?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??ve got time; I am still a little bit afraid of the bright daylight. That is why at these times I go to the sea. Discipline in our liquidation company is quite lax, so everybody does what they want and we go wherever we want. I swim far out into the ocean so that I can no longer see the shore, only the waves dancing, fluffy and green. The depth below gives me a tiny cold tremor of fear which travels all the way down to my stomach, but it doesn?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??t matter, I keep swimming until I get tired or until a bigger wave hits me on the head and fills my throat with salty water. Then I head back, but ever more slowly and I swim and swim and still I cannot see the shore and my arms are hurting more and more until I catch the right rhythm again. When I get out, all my muscles feel tired and my head is full of a nice, happy, empty noise. I go back to the barracks ?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞?????≈????∑??? in fact it?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞????????±?≠??s just a roof made of a few panels ?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞?????≈????∑??? and I get some sleep. The sun is burning brightly all day; the sky and sea are wonderfully hot and blue.

From: "stefan.wisniowski@..." <stefan.wisniowski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Hi Martin

We have a set of shipping dates in the second evacuation, but not the names on each ship.
See ?

We also have a list of 30,000 civilian evacuees, but it is not complete (my family was not on it!).
See ?

Poles evacuated from Russia to Persia in 1942.
WARNING: This is a very large file and will take some time to open! Originally published as a series of 4-page inserts No.1 to 17 in the Polish exile newspaper "Polska Walcz?∞?√??∫????∞?????≈????∑?≈¤?∞?√??≠???∞??????????≠???∞?≈??≠??ca" in London, England, between 10 April 1943 (Issue 14) and 7 August 1943 (Issue 31).The first 16 lists contain the names of approximately 1,900 persons each, for a total of about 30,000 people. They are organised in alphabetical order by last name, though within each letter series the names are sometimes out of order, so an entire alphabetical section should be read to find a specific name.

If only we had the lists prepared by the NKVD at Krasnovodsk - I wonder if they survived in some archive?

Best regards
Stefan Wisniowski
SYDNEY Australia

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi? From: martin stepek <mstepek@...> Date: Sun, March 03, 2013 8:55 pm To: kresy <Kresy-Siberia@...> ?

...?
Do we have a definitive list of shipping dates from the first to the very last? And, even better, does a list of names of people who travelled on each of these exist? I?∞?√??∫????∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑???∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑?≈¤?∞?≈??≠??d have thought, given the info some of us have been lucky enough to find from much more chaotic and unlikely times, that these do exist somewhere. It would be a great service if these could be definitively traced and put on the museum site.
?
Warm regards
Martin Stepek
Author??∞?√??∫????∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑???∞?≈??≠???∞?√?????????∞?????≈????∑???For There is Hope?∞?√??∫????∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑???∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?≈??≠???∞?≈??≠?√?
a bilingual poem exploring the Kresy Siberian experience of my father?∞?√??∫????∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑???∞?≈??≠???∞?√??≠???∞?????≈????∑?≈¤?∞?≈??≠??s family, reflections on what happened to them, and meditations of its effect on the lives of the children of survivors.

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Kresy-Siberia Foundation Research Fellow

#54405

开云体育

Jurek Zbigniew Neisser, congratulations on your new position and thank you for dedication and work with Group in past service and ?now, in service for the future of KS GROUP.

Warmest regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?

Show quoted text

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of stefan.wisniowski@...
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 4:18 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia Group
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Kresy-Siberia Foundation Research Fellow

?

Dear Kresy-Siberia group members,??

I am pleased to announce that Jurek Zbigniew Neisser has accepted an appointment to the new role of Kresy-Siberia Foundation Research Fellow. As you may know, Jurek is undertaking research studies at the University of Manchester on the UK Polonia and this work aligns completely with the mission of the Kresy-Siberia Foundation.

This role will involve Jurek in the academic and scholarly aspects of the Polish Second World War exile experience and the evolution of the Polish post-war Diaspora. One of his primary tasks will be to advise the Kresy-Siberia Foundation on the latest scholarly work and trends in the field, ensuring thereby that the Foundation remains at the forefront of this knowledge. ?The Foundation will also have the right to publish Jurek’s academic articles and dissertations, prepared or submitted during his term as KSF Research Fellow, in whole or in part, including in the Virtual Museum website.

?As such, Jurek will remain involved with our various committees, projects and working groups as appropriate and be kept informed of events and projects. His role will include:

Observing and reviewing scholarly articles and books;
Participating in, presenting, or organising meetings, seminars or conferences as appropriate and feasible;
Undertaking specific research projects for the Kresy-Siberia Foundation;
Producing regular research reports, initially on a quarterly basis.

So that Jurek can concentrate on this critical research work, he has retired from the Kresy-Siberia Foundation’s Executive Committee and from the Board of the Kresy-Siberia (UK) charity.

I would like to thank Jurek for his long service and leadership, and am pleased that he will continue his long-standing association with Kresy-Siberia, of which he was an inaugural member.

?

Kind regards

?

Stefan Wisniowski

Kresy-Siberia Foundation President

6 March ?2013

?

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

Krystyna Mew

#54404

Hi Mark

Turkmenbasy is what was formerly known as Krasnovodsk and is in Turkmenistan.

Krystyna Mew
France

Show quoted text

From: Mark
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Thanks KM, your dad was a funny guy.
Questions:
Is this place near Kazahkstan? Thats where my dads mom was in a kolkhoz.
What was in Turkmenistan, was it training for the young guys?
The date is close my dad's start date with Anders.
?
Mark T.
Canada

From: Witold J Lukaszewski
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:20:32 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Krysiu,

You must be referring to Blagovieshchenka, near Dzalal-Abad, in south-western Kyrgizstan, where the 5th Division was stationed. Bagovieszczensk is in far eastern part of Russia, on the Russo-Chinese border.

Witek

On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Krystyna Mew wrote:

?

Hi Mark My father was part of a group who was involved in liquidating the camp in Blagoveshchensk.? He obviously wasn't very pleased about it! See some more below. Blagoveshchensk 7th August 1942 As usually happens, all this talk about going away finally came true. The lieutenant gave a long and boring talk to let us know that we should get rid of our Soviet girlfriends and get rid of all our Russian money. The next day the travel alert was announced. We were each given an extra blanket, a cloth uniform, shoe soles and a second pair of shoes and a lot of other unnecessary stuff which couldn??˙t be packed in any way. When the regiment finally went on its way, everybody looked like a pack mule or like an Uzbek donkey. Why is it that an overloaded person has such an infinitely stupid look on his face? I??˙m saying the regiment went on its way, because I stayed behind; 230 of us were left as the company whose job it was to liquidate the camp. The chief saw that I could drive a car, so he assigned me to the horses. This is the worst possible work; to clean out their feet and water them during the daytime and at night to be on stand-by in the stables. Horses from the entire regiment herded together, hungry, struggling and biting each other. It??˙s a horrible job. I can barely walk. All the other gear such as tents, kitchen stuff and medical equipment has already been returned to the warehouse, but there is no commission to receive the horses. Krasnovodsk [now Tu?√rkmenbas?§y, Turkmenistan] 15th August 1942 We left! Just in time. As usual everything had to be done at great speed. We had to go quickly to the regiment headquarters, pack quickly and before I could look around, we were on our way. As usual during travel, I manage somehow to keep going in spite of my sickness and then we will see. My only aim is to arrive there. Six days in a train. This time we were in a carriage, which means that for the entire time there was no way to lie down, not even for a moment. As if in a dream I could see images typical of East Asia: the desert, sharp rugged mountains in some improbable colours and shapes, like some strange theatrical decorations and people in colourful Eastern clothing: Uzbeks, Kyrgyzstanis, Kazaks and a few lesser known tribes. I am sorry that I was unable to remember any details of their clothing. Some girls, young women, dressed in rich attire; they were very pretty, even beautiful. Their beauty was wild, burnt by the sun and very oriental and they were so young and delicate. But we didn??˙t even have time to look at them. We are now sitting surrounded by sand, a few kilometres from the port and we are waiting for a boat. The sea is dirty and full of oil; the sand is dirty too. There are plenty of empty cans and all sorts of rubbish, but the worst thing is that there is no drinking water. We have a lot of money, roubles and high denomination notes. We have to get rid of them quickly. As for myself I didn??˙t have much anyway, but the civilians who also congregate here have their pockets loaded with money and whilst they are afraid to keep it, they don??˙t want to give it back to the Russians, so they are eager to give it to us. We buy red wine with it, crazily expensive, but good. We drink it instead of water all day.

'Lost BetweenWorlds' Edward Herzbaum pages 122-123

Krystyna Mew
France

From: Mark <turkiewiczm@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Thanks for posting this Krystyna.
If the men were enlisted quickly on arrival in Persia, then my dad was on the same ship. His enlistment date in Anders is Aug 22
?
Mark T. Canada

From: Krystyna Mew <krystynamew@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 7:02:12 AM
Subject: Re: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Hi Stefan My father traveled on the ship Czicerin on August 17th, arriving in Pahlevi 19th ( see below) if anyone wants to add the name of the ship. From 'Lost Between Worlds' by Edward Herzbaum. pages 124-126 'The Caspian Sea 17th August 1942 On board ?∞??????????—??Cziczerin?∞????????????????. It?∞????????????????s an old wreck crawling across the Caspian Sea, its last effort. We were pushed into the innards of this monster, but I escaped to the deck. Down below it looks like a live picture of Dante?∞????????????????s ?∞??????????—??Inferno?∞????????????????. In half darkness you can see a lot of incredible figures, sweaty, shining, naked bodies. All you can hear is the sound of heavy breathing and the splashing of waves against the ship?∞????????????????s hull. The air can be cut with a knife. This cannot be described. One immediately feels that one is going to suffocate; wide-open mouths try in vain to catch just a little bit of air. On the deck the sun is burning, but at least one can breathe. The sea and the sky are beautiful, close and clean, quite different from how it was in Krasnovodsk. Close to me in the lounge there is an old concert piano. It is on this antique instrument that someone I don?∞????????????????t know is playing Chopin. His fingers are stiff, sometimes he makes a mistake, but his playing is wonderful; I can?∞????????????????t stop listening. Later on, I have to leave for a while and when I come back to the lounge, the music has changed to popular melodies. Of course I thought that it was somebody else playing, because I thought that it couldn?∞????????????????t be possible, but no, it was the same fellow. I cursed him silently and I reproached myself that I could be listening and admiring someone like this. Later he was playing Chopin again, effortlessly and very cleanly as if he was beyond any reproach. I wanted to run away but I couldn?∞????????????????t. God damn him. The Middle East Pahlevi, Persia [now Bandar-e-Anzali, Iran] 19th August 1942 At last, finally, we are in Persia. After three years we have got out of the red paradise of the Soviet Republic which is aptly called the country of modernised misery and organised famine. We walk around sleepily with half-closed eyes, we are not quite awake yet and we can?∞????????????????t quite believe it when we see the concrete buildings of the port and people who are cleanly and decently dressed; at policemen in their slightly comical, exotic grey uniforms; at the shop windows which are full of everything, and there are no queues! We are only now getting used to the world again. Even during the journey we were being fed with the canned English food, but everything has now changed and we get cocoa for breakfast and fresh dates, biscuits, white bread, sausage etc. We can?∞????????????????t believe it when we eat. I feel like a criminal who was serving a life sentence and who was suddenly released one quiet, sunny afternoon. We take deep breaths all the way to the bottom of our lungs. We are standing around, warming ourselves and looking around us, but we don?∞????????????????t want to think yet. There will be time for that too. Anyway, the uniform keeps me tethered and disciplined. Sometimes I have all sorts of silly and unnecessary thoughts. It means that my brain, asleep for several years or smothered by hunger, has begun to work again or at least some part of my consciousness has. But I?∞????????????????ve got time; I am still a little bit afraid of the bright daylight. That is why at these times I go to the sea. Discipline in our liquidation company is quite lax, so everybody does what they want and we go wherever we want. I swim far out into the ocean so that I can no longer see the shore, only the waves dancing, fluffy and green. The depth below gives me a tiny cold tremor of fear which travels all the way down to my stomach, but it doesn?∞????????????????t matter, I keep swimming until I get tired or until a bigger wave hits me on the head and fills my throat with salty water. Then I head back, but ever more slowly and I swim and swim and still I cannot see the shore and my arms are hurting more and more until I catch the right rhythm again. When I get out, all my muscles feel tired and my head is full of a nice, happy, empty noise. I go back to the barracks ?∞????????????≠??? in fact it?∞????????????????s just a roof made of a few panels ?∞????????????≠??? and I get some sleep. The sun is burning brightly all day; the sky and sea are wonderfully hot and blue.

From: "stefan.wisniowski@..." <stefan.wisniowski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2013 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Hi Martin

We have a set of shipping dates in the second evacuation, but not the names on each ship.
See ?

We also have a list of 30,000 civilian evacuees, but it is not complete (my family was not on it!).
See ?

Poles evacuated from Russia to Persia in 1942.
WARNING: This is a very large file and will take some time to open! Originally published as a series of 4-page inserts No.1 to 17 in the Polish exile newspaper "Polska Walcz?∞?????≠??≤?∞??????????≠??ca" in London, England, between 10 April 1943 (Issue 14) and 7 August 1943 (Issue 31).The first 16 lists contain the names of approximately 1,900 persons each, for a total of about 30,000 people. They are organised in alphabetical order by last name, though within each letter series the names are sometimes out of order, so an entire alphabetical section should be read to find a specific name.

If only we had the lists prepared by the NKVD at Krasnovodsk - I wonder if they survived in some archive?

Best regards
Stefan Wisniowski
SYDNEY Australia

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi? From: martin stepek <mstepek@...> Date: Sun, March 03, 2013 8:55 pm To: kresy <Kresy-Siberia@...> ?

...?
Do we have a definitive list of shipping dates from the first to the very last? And, even better, does a list of names of people who travelled on each of these exist? I?∞???≠???∞?????≠????≠???∞?????≠??≤?≠??d have thought, given the info some of us have been lucky enough to find from much more chaotic and unlikely times, that these do exist somewhere. It would be a great service if these could be definitively traced and put on the museum site.
?
Warm regards
Martin Stepek
Author??∞???≠???∞?????≠????≠???∞??????≠???For There is Hope?∞???≠???∞?????≠????≠???∞???≠???≠?∏
a bilingual poem exploring the Kresy Siberian experience of my father?∞???≠???∞?????≠????≠???∞?????≠??≤?≠??s family, reflections on what happened to them, and meditations of its effect on the lives of the children of survivors.

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

Krystyna Mew

#54403

Hi Witek

Apologies, yes I think I've spelled it wrong.? As you see my father's writing has been difficult to decipher! See attachment.

Krystyna Mew

France

Show quoted text

From: Witold J Lukaszewski
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Full_Details_of_Krasnovodsk_to_Pahlevi?

?

Krysiu,

You must be referring to Blagovieshchenka, near Dzalal-Abad, in south-western Kyrgizstan, where the 5th Division was stationed. Bagovieszczensk is in far eastern part of Russia, on the Russo-Chinese border.

Witek

On Mar 3, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Krystyna Mew wrote:

?

Hi Mark
My father was part of a group who was involved in liquidating the camp in Blagoveshchensk.? He obviously wasn't very pleased about it! See some more below.

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Book Launch - 'Alone' by Alina Suchanski

#54402

开云体育

Jackie thank you and yes it would be a great asset to be added to KSVM shop.

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?

Show quoted text

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of JackieR
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 9:24 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Book Launch - 'Alone' by Alina Suchanski

?

Hi Lenarda,

?

If you wish to purchase the book, I would recommend you contact the PHT directly via the same email I posted in response to Tracey:

?

phtmuseum@...

I'm hoping this will somehow be added into the Kresy-Siberia Museum shop - will have to look into.

?

Thx

Jackie

On 5 March 2013 21:41, Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:

?

Hi Jackie, Bob the Pole from Kazimierz, is not unusual as my Godfather Marian was called Harry, it was done to simplify language for the locals.

Thankyou for posting a report about the Polish Heritage Trust book launch in New Zealand.

Can this book called ?“Alone” be purchased by group and where is it available?

Best wishes from across the ditch

Lenarda, Sydney, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of JackieR
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 5:51 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [] Book Launch - 'Alone' by Alina Suchanski

?

Dear Group,

?

I attended a book launch on Sunday 3rd March at the Polish Heritage Trust Museum in Auckland?for a book called 'Alone' by Alina Suchanski and I thought I would share with the group.? The book is about Alina's stepfather Antoni Leparowski (Tony) a?Pahiatua child who arrived in New Zealand in 1944 after being orphaned in Siberia.

?

John Roy-Wojciechowski, Honorary Polish Consul (and founding member of Kresy-Siberia), introduced Alina.? John spoke of his strong friendship with Tony and the family connection that exists between the Pahiatua children.? He shared some of his experiences in Pahiatua camp and spoke of another friend who after coming to live with a New Zealand foster family became known by their 'kiwi' name.? This particular friend decided 20 years later that he should be known by his proper name and this was readily accepted by his friends and community.? This story struck a chord with me, as my father was known here in New Zealand as "Bob the Pole". ?I never quite knew how you would?get "Bob" from Kazimierz, but there you have it.??Most people knew my father was Polish, hence "the Pole", but I don't know if they ever knew his real name.? (Please don't judge too harshly though, this was a product/mindset of the late 50's and he never did seem to mind).

?

Alina then spoke about her stepfather and her experiences in researching his story, including her trip to Poland to meet some of his family and her trip to the Ukraine.???Tony got to read the completed manuscript but unfortunately he passed away before seeing the final published book.? Alina also spoke of how part of her drive behind her work has come from growing up in Poland and never hearing about this part of history.? Her introduction to the Soviet deportations began when Tony would share stories of his experiences.? Alina then went on to read out a portion from the book.? A story relating to some mischief the boys got up to in Pahiatua camp, with an experiment in wine making - courtesy of some sugar from the kitchen and some blueberries growing nearby.?

?

We then watched the documentary that Alina produced called "Poles Apart", which has interviews with some of the Pahiatua children now based in the South Island including Alina's stepfather.

?

Alina has also published a book called 'Polish Kiwis' based on an exhibition she held some years ago.

?

I managed to purchase both of Alina's books and am really looking forward to reading them.

?

Thanks,

Jackie Rzepka

Auckland

New Zealand

?

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Children of Teheran

#54401

开云体育

Julek, these photos are true treasure and you are not alone.

?

The blonde kid, I thought so, but had to ask, before I made my comment of “YOU LOOK SO CUTE AND HUGGABLE’? every mother would have wanted to squish you and cuddle you.

?

Warmest wishes

Lenarda, Australia

?

Show quoted text

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Julian Plowy
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 9:22 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Children of Teheran

?

Hi,?

?

Attached is a photo at Dad’s gravesite in Teheran Persia. Mom, Helen (my sister) and I giving our last respects to my dad whom I have never truly known or who would never be able to guide me and share our joys through life together.

?

Dad was murdered as were so many other Polish citizens whose health finally gave out due to the inhumane gulag conditions.

?

Each family has their own unbelievable story of sorrow and loss of family member and friends. To reflect for even a moment about of all of these poor innocent people murdered is almost unbearable to those who share these loses.

?

I still am waiting for the people of that murderess country and its regime to atone for their murders to bring some closure to the fading generation of Polish refugees, but they continue to this day to support their evil and vile government and support other similar regimes that have the same evil value systems.

?

May God have pity on their souls

?

Julek

?

PS On the previous photo I am the blond boy at the far right in the first row from the bottom.

?

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Barbara Milligan <bwbm5@...> wrote:

?

Julian,

?

What a lovely little boy you were!

?

All the best,

?

Basia (UK)

?

On 5 Mar 2013, at 19:17, Julian Plowy wrote:

?

Lenarda,?

?

Thank you for your kind words.

?

Attached is another photo of Polish refugee children shortly after the gulags. That is me in the first row on the right by the torn part of the photo. The torn part of this photo was where mom was seated therefore she not in this photo. Somehow that part of the photos was separated from the rest of the photo years ago.

?

Julek

?

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:

?

Julek,

?

you did not die because of your mother’s care, she was a very brave woman and must have been amazing in the way she cared for you, it would have been horrendously difficult, ?also you had a lot of luck, with I am sure blessings from above. ??

?

I am happy you did not die, because now you have a job in teaching us and we can annoy you with questions.

?

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Julian Plowy
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2013 7:11 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [] Children of Teheran

?

Dan,

?

Yes, I was on the ship with mom. I was actually born in the gulags. Mom was 7 months pregnant when we were taken by force on Feb 10 1940 from our home. Most children my age died.

?

To be totally correct I should actually say that they were murdered because of the?circumstances that they were placed in, and the lack of?nourishment?they received.?These animals knew exactly what they were doing.?

?

I give them too much credit calling them?animals because animals do not act in this fashion against their own?species.??

?

Julek

?

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:21 PM, danadler2007 <danadler2007@...> wrote:

?

Julek,

That's amazing! Were you on that ship with your mother?

Thanks,
-Dan
New York

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Julian Plowy wrote:
>
> Here is a photo of some of the Polish Children in Persia (Today it is Iran).
>
> Julek Plowy and his mother Josefa Plowy are in this photo.
>
> Look at the 2nd row of children starting from the bottom. The first child
> on the left in the 2nd row is Julek Plowy and his mother Josefa is right
> behind him.
>
> Julek
>

> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 8:51 PM, danadler2007 wrote:
>
> > **

> >
> >
> > Do people here know of the "Children of Teheran" story? It was an amazing
> > humanitarian cause that General Anders agreed to take upon himself: to save
> > 700 Jewish orphans and bring them to Palestine (now Israel). One of the
> > best known among the orphans was Avigdor (Yanush) Ben-Gal, who later became
> > one of the Israeli Generals credited with saving Israel from the Syrians in
> > the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
> >
> > Among all the orphans, this operation also saved my father's family
> > (mother, father and brother), who were sent on that same ship to Israel
> > while he was in the Anders army cadet school:
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
>

?

Kresy-Siberia Foundation Research Fellow

#54400

Dear Kresy-Siberia group members,??

I am pleased to announce that Jurek Zbigniew Neisser has accepted an appointment to the new role of Kresy-Siberia Foundation Research Fellow. As you may know, Jurek is undertaking research studies at the University of Manchester on the UK Polonia and this work aligns completely with the mission of the Kresy-Siberia Foundation.

This role will involve Jurek in the academic and scholarly aspects of the Polish Second World War exile experience and the evolution of the Polish post-war Diaspora. One of his primary tasks will be to advise the Kresy-Siberia Foundation on the latest scholarly work and trends in the field, ensuring thereby that the Foundation remains at the forefront of this knowledge. ?The Foundation will also have the right to publish Jurek’s academic articles and dissertations, prepared or submitted during his term as KSF Research Fellow, in whole or in part, including in the Virtual Museum website.

?As such, Jurek will remain involved with our various committees, projects and working groups as appropriate and be kept informed of events and projects. His role will include:

Observing and reviewing scholarly articles and books;
Participating in, presenting, or organising meetings, seminars or conferences as appropriate and feasible;
Undertaking specific research projects for the Kresy-Siberia Foundation;
Producing regular research reports, initially on a quarterly basis.

So that Jurek can concentrate on this critical research work, he has retired from the Kresy-Siberia Foundation’s Executive Committee and from the Board of the Kresy-Siberia (UK) charity.

I would like to thank Jurek for his long service and leadership, and am pleased that he will continue his long-standing association with Kresy-Siberia, of which he was an inaugural member.

Kind regards

?

Stefan Wisniowski

Kresy-Siberia Foundation President

6 March ?2013

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] March-April 1942 exodus list

#54410

开云体育

John, I so much remember this as my mother-in-law Cecylia Szymczak z domu Wiktorowicz, travelled from Siberia to Tengeru to England to Australia, would have nightmares and even hallucinations until her death in 21.11.2001 of being sealed/locked inside a ship during a storm and then ?the following day, finding pieces, debris but not one living person, of another ship in which all had drowned. ?She could not go near rivers or oceans after this and we all thought that this was a tangent of old lady ranting, not understanding or having verification until now. ??She was terrified, we were patient, but did not understand. Now the piece comes together of why.

?

Quote - There was a terrible storm on the Caspian Sea that night; the ship was crashing through the waves and was so crowded there wasn’t room to stand. Everything went over board – the vomit, the excreta, and the dead. (A similar vessel with Poles on board sunk that night, with all souls)." -

?

Lenarda, Australia

?

Show quoted text

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of John Halucha
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2013 3:05 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] March-April 1942 exodus list

?

Thank you, Stan, for undertaking to create a list of ships and departures in the first exodus March-April 1942. You have had such success finding other important documents that I'm sure you will greatly advance our knowledge of this episode.

First, let me echo Hania and assure you that you that your grandfather probably did not arrive on April 1 if he departed on March 26. Many of us had suspicions similar to yours because the dates did not seem to match up, and it appears that April 1 was chosen as an official date of coming under British Command but may or may not be the date of arrival in Pahlevi. Some of our members spoke of earlier arrival (your grandfather was probably one of those) and some spoke of later arrival, but in almost all cases the date of coming under British Command is given as April 1.

So far I have not seen an order or reference for April 1 being an official or deemed date, but from what many people on the forum have said this appears to be the explanation. I am not aware whether there was a similar official date connected to the August 1942 exodus.

Can you tell us your grandfather's name and some other details of his circumstances?

?

It may be impossible to compile a complete list of the ships and departure dates, because as Elzunia said it appears many different craft were used including small fishing boats. For example: - "It was March 1942; Some 2 years after our arrest; Alina and I were now sixteen. From Krasnovodsk we were put on a fishing ship to Pahlevia in Persia (now Iran). There was a terrible storm on the Caspian Sea that night; the ship was crashing through the waves and was so crowded there wasn’t room to stand. Everything went over board – the vomit, the excreta, and the dead. (A similar vessel with Poles on board sunk that night, with all souls)." -

?

Here are some other references that may help compiling the list:

- Captain Ludwik Stanis?aw Sosabowski: “I left the U.S.S.R. on the 1st. April 1942, on the second transport of the 9th. Division of the Polish Army, from Kasnowodsk, across the Black Sea to Pahlevi in Persia.” -

- "My great uncle and his battalion came across on the tanker Profintern on 2 April ... As for the tanker Profintern that single name came from Waleczne Skorpiony tom I, there is only a vague mention of seasickness." - Chris post to KS forum May 27, 2012

- Franciszek Romuald RYMASZEWSKI: "On the 2 of April 1942, my Army regiment and myself were packed like sardines on a dilapidated Russian cargo ship "Profintern" in port Krasnovodsk on the Caspian Sea. Then we left the Soviet Union. The next day, on 3 April 1942, we arrived in port Pahlevi (Resht) in Persia." -

There is also reference to "Krasnyji Profintern" (also Krasnyj Profintern, Krasnii Profintern, later renamed Krasnyi Krym)

- "When they reached the Polish army in Buzuluk, Uzbekistan, and in Krasnovodsk, they boarded filthy ships and sailed south across the Caspian Sea for two days to Pahlevi, Persia (Iran). General Anders did not trust that Soviet permission to leave would last and wanted to get as many Poles out as quickly as possible. So he ordered the boats to be completely loaded with people, essentially standing room only. As a result, the journey was extremely unsafe and the boats were extraordinarily unsanitary, with no bathroom facilities." -

- "In Krasnogorsk, we were put on a boat. It was filthy with human excrement, with everything, and overcrowded. It was called Moskwa [Muskva?] and on it we sailed more than 24 hours to the Persians, at the time Iranian port of Pahlevi." - and

- “The journey across the Caspian Sea lasted twenty-four hours. ... General Boruta-Spiechowicz spoke to us reminding that when this journey came to an end, we would be free people, away from slavery, prisons, epidemics, and starvation, which all passengers had suffered in Soviet Russia.

The rickety boat reached Persia very early in the morning. We saw the sunrise on Easter Sunday, [April 5] 1942, and felt that along with Christ we also rose from the grave.” -

- "The Iranian and British officials who first watched the Soviet oil tankers and coal ships list into the harbour at Pahlavi on the 25th March 1942 had little idea how many people to expect or what physical state they might be in." - from "An Army in Exile" by General W?adys?aw Anders

- "From the book titled PAIFORCE: The official story of the Persia and Iraq Command 1941 - 1946. On page 127 "When Lt.- Col.A. Ross, of the Highland Light Infantry, who was to command the British Base Evacuation Staff, arrived on the 25th [of March] , he found Pahlevi thickly carpeted with snow and the first transport, carrying 1,387 evacuees, already lying off harbour." - post to KS forum Nov. 8, 2012, by Chris W

- "...Between 24 March and 4th April 1942 the Krasnovodsk depot received 33,039 military and 10,789 civilian evacuees, ... The survivors crossed the Caspian in batches in Soviet ships to Pahlevi between 26th March and 10th April." - Michael Hope: Polish deportees in the Soviet Union. Origins of Post-War Settlement in Great Britain. Veritas Foundation Publication Centre, London 2000, ISBN 0 948202 76 9, p.40,

- "11 large tankers for Caspian Sea (of "Lenin" type) were produced in 1930-1936 by "Krasnoe Sormovo" shipyard (six for oil transportation and five - for gasoline).

Specifications: 12600 t (deadweight 8500 t); 132,6 x 16,86 m; 2 x 1250 hp diesel; 11,6 knots; 2800 miles range; 41 men crew.

"Lenin", equipped with AA guns, transported petrol and oil for Stalingrad Front under bombs of German aviation. It was awarded with Red Banner after end of Stalingrad battle.

The another 10 tankers of the same type were used also quite widely during the Stalingrad battle and after. Also some of them participated in landing operation of Soviet troops into Iranian territory in 1941, transported soldiers and ammunition.

They had names "Profintern", "Tsurupa", "Agamali-ogly", "VKP(b)", "Komintern", "Sumgait", "Zhdanov", "Geroi Mekhti", "Bolshevik Ahundov", "Azerbaijan".

...

Also I found short info about Caspian tanker "Kulibekov" (unknown for me type, deadweight 1754 t, so it was small tanker)"-

- Combined (probably partial) list of ships on the Caspian sea at this time, including those from list of 13 ships used in August 1942 evacuation:

Agamali-ogly (or Agamali Ugly or Agamali Ugli or Aga Mali-Ogly)

Amerika

Azerbaijan

Barge #19

Barge #21

Beria

Bojewoj

Bolshevik Ahundov

Borowski

Cziczerin

Geroi Mekhti

Jelijot

Kaganowicz

Kazachstan

Komintern

Komsomo?

Kulibekov

Kuybyshev

Lenin

Lighter #3032

Marks

Molot (and/or Mo?otow)

Muraviev

Ordzonikidze

Orlyonok

Osetin

Profintern (or Krasnyi Profintern)

Siewier

Stalin (see March 30 and 8th Infantry Division / 8th Division History.odt)

Sumgait

Talycha

Tankist

Tsurupa

Udarnik

VKP(b)

Zhdanov (or Zdanow)

- "Out of seventeen transports which crossed the Caspian Sea, only one arrived without its cargo of corpses...Only the 5th, 6th, and 7th Divisions now remained on Soviet territory." - Zoe Zajdlerowa, The Dark Side of the Moon 1946, p.189. It is not clear whether there were 17 different ships involved, or some ships may have made more than one trip.

- "Soon [unclear whether March or August 1942] we got the train to take us to Krasnovodsk, on the Caspian sea. There we boarded some rusty old ships. I was on ship called "Gruzavik" (loader)." -

?

I look forward to your findings, Stan.

John Halucha

Sault Ste Marie, Canada

-----

?

From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>

To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>

Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:50:02 AM

Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Re: Mark: 5th Division Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi

?

Dear Eliza!

?

I happily willing to take this job.

Mathematical statistics - this is my love.

?

I think that in a month we will make the first version. I'll try to look at the library and in the State Archives of the Russian Federation.

?

I take opportunity to congratulate our group with 60 - year anniversary of the death of Joseph Stalin - death to all tyrants!

There is reason to drink tonight big glass of vodka and remember our fallen.

?

Stan from M.

?

From: Elzunia/Elizabeth Gradosielska/Maczka <elzunia@...>

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:48 AM

Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Re: Mark: 5th Division Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi

?

You are right Stan - we need to make a list of the first evacuations. There doesn't seem to be an official list available (though there must be one, somewhere) – but we are many members, with a wealth of family information, so we can make our own list.

?

I can make the first contribution: my mother Danuta Maczka (later Gradosielska) writes in her diary:

We arrived in Krasnovodsk on 27th Mar 1942, ate lunch and then waited for the ship. During the night we boarded the cargo boat along with 5,000 soldiers. On the next vessel were civilian families. 30th Mar after crossing the Russian-Persian border we arrived in the port of Pahlevi and disembarked in the afternoon. (Unfortunately, she doesn't know the name of her boat)

?

I think the idea of one ship per trip is a bit misleading – my uncle, who was there, says that all sorts of boats were used, even fishing boats, whatever was available.

?

I invite all our members to contribute to the list – Stan, will you be responsible for collecting this information?

?

pozdrowienia

Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson

Alings?s, Sweden

?

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Stanislaw Zwierzynski wrote:

>?

> Hi !

>

> I've confused myself in the dates of departure from Pahlavi.

>

> I understand that the most accurate information is the date of departure.

> Arrival date - more than strange. My grandfather started on March 26, arrived on April 1 (MOD).

> Are they sailed for 480 km - 6 days?

> It can not be.

> Taking low-speed transport speed of 10 knots per hour (18 km per hour), we get 26 hours of travel - a little more than a day.

>

> I've read that sometimes had bad weather - well, even two days sailing! But what they did another 4 days.

>

> So the date April 1, 1942 - some more formal. What it involves, I do not know.

>

> Generally speaking, it's time to make a list of ships for the first wave of sailing March 24 - April 04, 1942

> I'm ready to start this work. I do not know, that (as) to start it.

>

> Stan from M.

?

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] The Soviet labor camps had both punitive and economic functions.

#54399

See attached links regarding the latest news about Stalin!! Note the amount of praise currently given this murder!!!

Julek

Show quoted text

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Julek <jayplowy@...> wrote:

?

Gulags Were a Horrific Cornerstone of Stalinist Russia

MAR 5 2013, 10:00 AM ET 1
The Soviet labor camps had both punitive and economic functions.

(If you go to the site above you will see A cemetery for victims of the Gulag in Vorkuta, in Russia's Far North.)

(Tom Balmforth/RFE/RL)
Anne Applebaum is a columnist with The Washington Post and director of Global Transitions at the Legatum Institute. She is also author of the 2004 book "Gulag: A History" and last year's "Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, 1944-1956." Robert Coalson spoke with Applebaum about the enduring legacy of the Gulag in Russia.

I'd like to begin by asking you to read a passage from your book "Gulag," to give people a sense of how powerfully written it is. This passage is from your appendix in which you discuss the difficulties involved in answering the seemingly simple question of how many people did Stalin kill. Maybe you could say a few words before you read it.

Anne Applebaum: I needed a whole chapter, really, to explain the numbers, because the numbers vary depending on how you look at them. You can look at the numbers of dead in the archives. You can look at numbers of dead that we know from other sources. You can add them up in different kinds of ways. But one of the conclusions I came to was that the numbers were, in the end, inadequate. And I will read a passage from that part of "Gulag" that I think explains it quite well:

"A single round number of dead victims would be extremely satisfying, particularly since it would allow us to compare Stalin directly with Hitler or with Mao. Yet even if we could find one, I'm not sure it would really tell the whole story of suffering either. No official figures, for example, can possibly reflect the mortality of the wives and children and aging parents left behind, since their deaths were not recorded separately. During the war, old people starved to death without ration cards: had their convict son not been digging coal in Vorkuta, they might have lived. Small children succumbed easily to epidemics of typhus and measles in cold, ill-equipped orphanages: had their mothers not been sewing uniforms in Kengir, they might have lived too.

"Nor can any figures reflect the cumulative impact of Stalin's repressions on the life and health of whole families. A man was tried and shot as an "enemy of the people"; his children grew up in orphanages and joined criminal gangs; his mother died of stress and grief; his cousins and aunts and uncles cut off all contact from one another, in order to avoid being tainted as well. Families broke apart, friendships ended, fear weighed heavily on those who remained behind, even when they did not die."

Thank you. Your book makes the argument that the Gulag was not tangential to Stalinism but was an integral part of his economic, social, and political system. Could you elaborate on that?

Applebaum: It is very hard to separate the history of the Gulag from the history of the Soviet Union. It was, in some ways, the logical consequence of so many other policies. The Gulag had two functions. No. 1, it had a punitive function. It created fear. It was very spread out, it had branches all over the Soviet Union and everybody knew about it. Everybody was aware that it existed. It wasn't some kind of hidden part of society. It functioned as something that would scare people, but it also had a very important economic function.

The Gulag actually had the task of digging coal mines, of digging uranium mines, gold mines. The Gulag was enormous at its height in the late 1940s, early 1950s, which really was its height. It was an enormous economic empire, controlling factories and whole areas of Russia. Northeast Russia was settled by the Gulag -- prisoners and guards. Some of the Far Northern cities were effectively built by the Gulag -- Vorkuta, Norilsk, cities like that.

It also distorted in some ways the way the Soviet Union thought about economics. So, when a large deposit of coal was discovered in the Far North, the Russians didn't, as one would have done in Alaska, they didn't send a few teams of workers to work there for a few weeks and then send them back again to recover and then go back up again. Instead, because they had free labor, because they weren't counting costs, they built enormous cities in the Far North, which basically no one else has done anywhere. So, the city of Vorkuta, the city of Norilsk, Magadan. These were large constructions, big cities built because there was free labor, because there was slave labor. So you can see the distortions that the Gulag created for the Soviet economy. You can still see them today.

In your book, you write that Russia has not done a very good job of reckoning with Stalin and Stalinism. What is the state of this process in Russia today?

Applebaum: Now, at this moment, the current Russian government and the current Kremlin doesn't try to repress discussion of Stalin -- as, of course, once would have been the case -- but it tries to deal with it selectively. So there is very little discussion of the Gulag; there is very little discussion of industrialization even or collectivization. And there is quite a lot of emphasis placed on Stalin's victory in the second World War and on what the current Russian leadership thinks of as the most glorious moments in Soviet history. This, of course, is extremely distorting because it leaves out the context of that victory and what it really cost Russia and Russians. And it gives modern Russians a very skewed view of their past.

The danger about forgetting Stalin is not so much that it will repeat itself, because history doesn't ever really repeat itself in the exact same way. But it can leave Russians insensitive to some of the flaws that still exist in their society which are left over from that time. In other words, much of what is wrong in Russia now or what seems unfair in Russia now, these are things that are left over from the past.

There are still institutions that exist from the past. The way the prison system works; the way the judicial system works; the role of the political police, which is in some ways unchanged for the last 30-40 years. Its power goes up and down but it is always there. And the fact that Russians don't feel more sensitive about these institutions, that they don't feel a deeper desire to reform them and change them, I think, is partly because they haven't dwelled on, thought about, or absorbed the lessons of Soviet history.

And one of the reasons they haven't is that the current Russian leadership doesn't want them to. There is an active attempt to suppress discussion or to keep discussion focused only on positive aspects of the past.

Some argue that Stalin was a good manager, that he won the war, that he left the country stronger than he found it. You don't have a lot of patience for such views, do you?

Applebaum: No, I would really contest that. You need to look at counterfactuals -- what might Russia have been if it had been developed in a different way? You wouldn't have had millions of people -- lives wasted, talent wasted, education wasted -- working in slave-labor camps. All those physicists who were sent to dig coal in Magadan might have invented something faster and better. People might have lived better. You might now have a more developed infrastructure. I think to imagine that what Stalin achieved was some kind of triumph is to ignore how Russia could have developed differently.

Even the war -- Stalin started the war. He and Hitler divided Europe between them in 1939 at the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. They jointly invaded Poland and the Baltic states. It was Stalin's decision to do that that allowed Hitler two years in which to invade Western Europe. And the Soviet Union -- the Russian people -- then paid the price. They then suffered when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, for which the Soviet Union was basically unprepared. The many, many millions of people who died all died unnecessarily. Had Stalin not participated, had he not had a union with Hitler at the beginning, then maybe [those people] would be alive today.

It is interesting that even people like Putin who praise Stalin as "an effective manager" don't have anything good to say about Stalinism or advocate a return to Stalinism.

Applebaum: I don't think anyone wants to revive the system that Stalin created. Of course, it still exists in some places in attenuated form. North Korea, as far as I can tell, is potentially a Stalinist system, for example. But no, Stalinism doesn't hold any appeal for Putin. What he is trying to do is to cherry-pick Stalin's record, to focus on elements of the Soviet period that he wants to celebrate because he wants to rally Russians behind him; he wants to create a sense of patriotism because he wants, in some ways, to renovate himself.

He worked for many years in the KGB, which was the secret-police branch of the Soviet Communist Party, and the KGB was responsible for the Gulag and [its predecessor organizations] did create the terror of 1937 and the waves of other terror before and after that. So he is looking for elements of that past to rehabilitate. But nobody has suggested reviving the entire system. It probably, it couldn't be done now because you can't cut off Russia in the way you could before. And it would be suicidal. It is widely acknowledged that it was an economic disaster for the country.

This post appears courtesy of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Caspian Sea Journey to Pahlevi

#54398

He would have been out on the first transport...March 24 to April 10th, 1942.

hania

Show quoted text

From: Basia
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:44:07 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Caspian Sea Journey to Pahlevi

Dear Group

I have all my antenna on alert re journey and timing to Pahlevi

Unfortunately I am not at home and cannot check my MOD documents.

It could be that until I hear from CAW I won't get the answer.

However

According to post on this line of enquiry, Sikorski and Stalin had talks in Moscow 3rd December 1941

On the KARTA ?referening my Father, Anders, Tatiszczewo 3/9/1941

Arrived in UK 7th June 1942

Which ?transport would that fit my father into?

Would CAW indeed have the answer to that section, those months, of my father's life?

I have looked at all the lists posted since April last year to see if I can find his name on a boat and have failed.

Basia Zielinska (Sydney)

The Soviet labor camps had both punitive and economic functions.

#54396

Gulags Were a Horrific Cornerstone of Stalinist Russia

MAR 5 2013, 10:00 AM ET 1
The Soviet labor camps had both punitive and economic functions.

(If you go to the site above you will see A cemetery for victims of the Gulag in Vorkuta, in Russia's Far North.)

(Tom Balmforth/RFE/RL)
Anne Applebaum is a columnist with The Washington Post and director of Global Transitions at the Legatum Institute. She is also author of the 2004 book "Gulag: A History" and last year's "Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, 1944-1956." Robert Coalson spoke with Applebaum about the enduring legacy of the Gulag in Russia.

I'd like to begin by asking you to read a passage from your book "Gulag," to give people a sense of how powerfully written it is. This passage is from your appendix in which you discuss the difficulties involved in answering the seemingly simple question of how many people did Stalin kill. Maybe you could say a few words before you read it.

Anne Applebaum: I needed a whole chapter, really, to explain the numbers, because the numbers vary depending on how you look at them. You can look at the numbers of dead in the archives. You can look at numbers of dead that we know from other sources. You can add them up in different kinds of ways. But one of the conclusions I came to was that the numbers were, in the end, inadequate. And I will read a passage from that part of "Gulag" that I think explains it quite well:

"A single round number of dead victims would be extremely satisfying, particularly since it would allow us to compare Stalin directly with Hitler or with Mao. Yet even if we could find one, I'm not sure it would really tell the whole story of suffering either. No official figures, for example, can possibly reflect the mortality of the wives and children and aging parents left behind, since their deaths were not recorded separately. During the war, old people starved to death without ration cards: had their convict son not been digging coal in Vorkuta, they might have lived. Small children succumbed easily to epidemics of typhus and measles in cold, ill-equipped orphanages: had their mothers not been sewing uniforms in Kengir, they might have lived too.

"Nor can any figures reflect the cumulative impact of Stalin's repressions on the life and health of whole families. A man was tried and shot as an "enemy of the people"; his children grew up in orphanages and joined criminal gangs; his mother died of stress and grief; his cousins and aunts and uncles cut off all contact from one another, in order to avoid being tainted as well. Families broke apart, friendships ended, fear weighed heavily on those who remained behind, even when they did not die."

Thank you. Your book makes the argument that the Gulag was not tangential to Stalinism but was an integral part of his economic, social, and political system. Could you elaborate on that?

&#8203;&#8203;Applebaum: It is very hard to separate the history of the Gulag from the history of the Soviet Union. It was, in some ways, the logical consequence of so many other policies. The Gulag had two functions. No. 1, it had a punitive function. It created fear. It was very spread out, it had branches all over the Soviet Union and everybody knew about it. Everybody was aware that it existed. It wasn't some kind of hidden part of society. It functioned as something that would scare people, but it also had a very important economic function.

The Gulag actually had the task of digging coal mines, of digging uranium mines, gold mines. The Gulag was enormous at its height in the late 1940s, early 1950s, which really was its height. It was an enormous economic empire, controlling factories and whole areas of Russia. Northeast Russia was settled by the Gulag -- prisoners and guards. Some of the Far Northern cities were effectively built by the Gulag -- Vorkuta, Norilsk, cities like that.

It also distorted in some ways the way the Soviet Union thought about economics. So, when a large deposit of coal was discovered in the Far North, the Russians didn't, as one would have done in Alaska, they didn't send a few teams of workers to work there for a few weeks and then send them back again to recover and then go back up again. Instead, because they had free labor, because they weren't counting costs, they built enormous cities in the Far North, which basically no one else has done anywhere. So, the city of Vorkuta, the city of Norilsk, Magadan. These were large constructions, big cities built because there was free labor, because there was slave labor. So you can see the distortions that the Gulag created for the Soviet economy. You can still see them today.

In your book, you write that Russia has not done a very good job of reckoning with Stalin and Stalinism. What is the state of this process in Russia today?

Applebaum: Now, at this moment, the current Russian government and the current Kremlin doesn't try to repress discussion of Stalin -- as, of course, once would have been the case -- but it tries to deal with it selectively. So there is very little discussion of the Gulag; there is very little discussion of industrialization even or collectivization. And there is quite a lot of emphasis placed on Stalin's victory in the second World War and on what the current Russian leadership thinks of as the most glorious moments in Soviet history. This, of course, is extremely distorting because it leaves out the context of that victory and what it really cost Russia and Russians. And it gives modern Russians a very skewed view of their past.

&#8203;&#8203;The danger about forgetting Stalin is not so much that it will repeat itself, because history doesn't ever really repeat itself in the exact same way. But it can leave Russians insensitive to some of the flaws that still exist in their society which are left over from that time. In other words, much of what is wrong in Russia now or what seems unfair in Russia now, these are things that are left over from the past.

There are still institutions that exist from the past. The way the prison system works; the way the judicial system works; the role of the political police, which is in some ways unchanged for the last 30-40 years. Its power goes up and down but it is always there. And the fact that Russians don't feel more sensitive about these institutions, that they don't feel a deeper desire to reform them and change them, I think, is partly because they haven't dwelled on, thought about, or absorbed the lessons of Soviet history.

And one of the reasons they haven't is that the current Russian leadership doesn't want them to. There is an active attempt to suppress discussion or to keep discussion focused only on positive aspects of the past.

Some argue that Stalin was a good manager, that he won the war, that he left the country stronger than he found it. You don't have a lot of patience for such views, do you?

Applebaum: No, I would really contest that. You need to look at counterfactuals -- what might Russia have been if it had been developed in a different way? You wouldn't have had millions of people -- lives wasted, talent wasted, education wasted -- working in slave-labor camps. All those physicists who were sent to dig coal in Magadan might have invented something faster and better. People might have lived better. You might now have a more developed infrastructure. I think to imagine that what Stalin achieved was some kind of triumph is to ignore how Russia could have developed differently.

Even the war -- Stalin started the war. He and Hitler divided Europe between them in 1939 at the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. They jointly invaded Poland and the Baltic states. It was Stalin's decision to do that that allowed Hitler two years in which to invade Western Europe. And the Soviet Union -- the Russian people -- then paid the price. They then suffered when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, for which the Soviet Union was basically unprepared. The many, many millions of people who died all died unnecessarily. Had Stalin not participated, had he not had a union with Hitler at the beginning, then maybe [those people] would be alive today.

It is interesting that even people like Putin who praise Stalin as "an effective manager" don't have anything good to say about Stalinism or advocate a return to Stalinism.

Applebaum: I don't think anyone wants to revive the system that Stalin created. Of course, it still exists in some places in attenuated form. North Korea, as far as I can tell, is potentially a Stalinist system, for example. But no, Stalinism doesn't hold any appeal for Putin. What he is trying to do is to cherry-pick Stalin's record, to focus on elements of the Soviet period that he wants to celebrate because he wants to rally Russians behind him; he wants to create a sense of patriotism because he wants, in some ways, to renovate himself.

He worked for many years in the KGB, which was the secret-police branch of the Soviet Communist Party, and the KGB was responsible for the Gulag and [its predecessor organizations] did create the terror of 1937 and the waves of other terror before and after that. So he is looking for elements of that past to rehabilitate. But nobody has suggested reviving the entire system. It probably, it couldn't be done now because you can't cut off Russia in the way you could before. And it would be suicidal. It is widely acknowledged that it was an economic disaster for the country.

This post appears courtesy of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.

Re: Caspian Sea Journey to Pahlevi

#54397

Dear Group

I have all my antenna on alert re journey and timing to Pahlevi

Unfortunately I am not at home and cannot check my MOD documents.

It could be that until I hear from CAW I won't get the answer.

However

According to post on this line of enquiry, Sikorski and Stalin had talks in Moscow 3rd December 1941

On the KARTA ?referening my Father, Anders, Tatiszczewo 3/9/1941

Arrived in UK 7th June 1942

Which ?transport would that fit my father into?

Would CAW indeed have the answer to that section, those months, of my father's life?

I have looked at all the lists posted since April last year to see if I can find his name on a boat and have failed.

Basia Zielinska (Sydney)

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] First Transports Ships Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi 1942

#54395

Henry Kozubski:

?

March 26th, 10th Artillery leaves on freight cars to Krasnovodsk, stopping in Tashkent for quick baths...few days later arrive in Krasnovodsk.....get on an empry tanker and a days' passage were in Pahlevi.

?

hania

?

Show quoted text

From: Anne Kaczanowski
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 5:10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] First Transports Ships Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi 1942

Another ship that I think I remember arriving April 1st was.......... Velikaia Partia Bolshevikov

?

hania

From: Anne Kaczanowski
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:44:26 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] First Transports Ships Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi 1942

?

Here is a start for the search for ships in the first Evacuation of March-April 1942

Gustaw Herling wrote:

March 26^{th,? 1942} 10^th division from Lugovoye was transported on a goods train through Dzambul, Arys, Tashkent, Dzizak, Samarkand, Bukhara, Tchardzhau, and Ashkhabad to Krasnowodsk.

?

March 30^thembarked on 2 ships ?leaving the port ?€?..Agamali Ogly and Turkmenistan.

Arrived Night of April 2^ndat Pahlevi.

?

Kazimierz Kaczanowski:

?Left Keremine March 29^{, 1}?€?..left on a ship at Krasnovodsk and he said his ship?€?s ?journey from Krasnovodsk took 27 hours to reach? Pahlevi?€?.arrived at midnight arriving April 2^nd.

Antoni Chroscielewski:

?Polish 10th Division formed in the USSR:

March 1942:

... I got to a place called Lugowaja. ... There was a rallying point in Lugowaja, where the 10th Division had formed. I was 16 years old then. So I went to see the army commission and I was accepted into the Polish Army ... I was immediately accepted and received a British uniform.

After four weeks, they evacuated us to Krasnowodsk and then further, to Iran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pl-O8Gm6A&feature=plcp&context=C292d7UDOEgsToPDskKWMIQIzs9FIOJrKfUA0B-d with spoken English translation over Polish testimony.

We came to Krasnowodsk ?[March 27, working backwards from Pahlevi arrival April 1?] by train, straight to the port. Before we were loaded on the ship we were given soup that was very salty because it was made from dried salt fish. But everyone was hungry and there was no selection, so everyone ate what he was given. Before boarding, everyone was also given a crust of black bread and two salt herrings from a barrel. The ship was some kind of tanker, not a passenger ship, where about 4,000 to 5,000 people were packed onto the top deck, one beside another.

It was a beautiful day, at the start, and everyone was ecstatic to at last be escaping that hell. The ship departed about 2 p.m. The sea was very calm, but after awhile there were gentle long waves that you couldn't see, but we could start to feel it. Then fog arrived, and a storm started. Many of the people started to get sick. It turned out that there was no drinking water on the ship. After that salty soup and salted fish, after those herrings, there was no water. It was a tragedy, truly.

The storm was so huge on this sea, the Caspian, that it was literally throwing the ship around. Water was flowing over the deck, where the people were, and several were probably washed overboard without anyone knowing about it. I had to run to the side every so often to be sick. If the ship had tilted and a wave came, I also would have been washed overboard since there was no way I could hold on the the sort of barrier there.

Unfortunately, the ship was damaged during the night, during the storm. The rudder was ripped off or something like that. We drifted on the Caspian Sea for about three days, without water, without anything. I had to endure the sun because there was no kind of shade, so you had to stay out in the sun. By the third day you didn't care if the ship would sink or not, a person was so exhausted. We even tried to haul up some water, from the sea, but that made for an even worse effect. It was not until the fourth day that a different ship drew up and we transferred to it - on the sea, on the very sea.

We arrived at Pahlevi, Iran, on April 1, 1942. We disembarked at the port and had to go a few, I don't know, a few kilometres to get to the camp that the British had set up on the beach, on the Caspian Sea

?

10th Light Artillery Regiment:

March 25th Regiment left ??ugowaja and March 31, embarked in on the ship Agamali Og??y".

?

Tadeusz Szlenkier Charles:

Evacuated ?from ZSSR April 4, 1942, on the ship "Stalin" to Pahlevi in ?€??€?Persia.

?

Jedrzej Syska

?€?Krasnyji Profintern?€? ?left Krasnovodsk March 29, 1942

?

Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] First Transports Ships Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi 1942

#54394

Another ship that I think I remember arriving April 1st was.......... Velikaia Partia Bolshevikov

?

hania

Show quoted text

From: Anne Kaczanowski
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:44:26 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] First Transports Ships Krasnovodsk to Pahlevi 1942

Here is a start for the search for ships in the first Evacuation of March-April 1942

Gustaw Herling wrote:

March 26^{th,? 1942} 10^th division from Lugovoye was transported on a goods train through Dzambul, Arys, Tashkent, Dzizak, Samarkand, Bukhara, Tchardzhau, and Ashkhabad to Krasnowodsk.

?

March 30^thembarked on 2 ships ?leaving the port …..Agamali Ogly and Turkmenistan.

Arrived Night of April 2^ndat Pahlevi.

?

Kazimierz Kaczanowski:

?Left Keremine March 29^{, 1}…..left on a ship at Krasnovodsk and he said his ship’s ?journey from Krasnovodsk took 27 hours to reach? Pahlevi….arrived at midnight arriving April 2^nd.