|
Re: SURVIVORS of the War
Hello N\A,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
In reference to your comment: ¨¨ . The museum. Is it for the ¨¨ survivors of the ?Holocaust or the victims who have ¨¨ perished? ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War Date: 10/17/01 6:07:03 PM Eastern Standard Time From:? ? JCBSERV@... Reply-to: Kresy-Siberia@... To:? ? Kresy-Siberia@... Krystine, If you are referring to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, it's for the victims of the Holocaust, and their families. ?I have been there, and it is a wonderful Museum. ?There are memorials to those who were lost, and there are tributes from those who survived. ?There is a very large room, where a flame burns ALWAYS, and people go there to pray, or to meditate. ?Very quiet, hushed voices, a very moving place. ?There is another room, with an entire wall covered with 4 inch ceramic tiles, each painted by a child. ?These were done in schools all over the US (I think), and sent to the Museum. ?It is good to know that some schools are teaching about the Holocaust, and not trying to make it into a myth! ?The tiles are extremely touching. ?There are also tours, through the Museum, where you will see an actual cattle car, as well as full scale models of the huts where the prisoners lived. ?There are walls covered with photographs of those who died in the camps. ?And there is a wonderful exhibit of all those who helped the Jews are are now called "Righteous Among the Nations" ?That was the BEST place for me, since a relative is listed there! ?Unfortunately, I couldn't take any pictures, since they are forbidden. ?But I wanted so much to take a photo, and send it to her daughter! If you get a chance, I suggest you take the time to do the whole tour, it's quite educational. Jan Birkner ========Original Message======== Subj: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War Date: 10/17/01 4:17:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time From:? ? tomaszkc@... (Krystine Tomaszyk) Reply-to: Kresy-Siberia@... To:? ? Kresy-Siberia@... Stefan, I do congratulate you on your letter concerning the Holocaust Museum and especially your rational approach to the subject. I have only one question. The museum. Is it for the survivors of the Holocaust or the victims who have perished? I do not know very much about this mueum and would appreciate clarification. Regards, Krystine ----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Wisniowski To: <Kresy-Siberia@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War > This is in response to the recent exchanges between Ed and Janie, both of > which are well-meaning and both of which are partly right!? Ed is right that > the referenced Holocaust Museum website seems to be oriented towards Jewish > survivors.? Janie is right that it is open to all survivors of the > Nazi-Soviet alliance. > > There are many ways to look at these things, depending where you are coming > from.? I am going to make a couple of statements but they are not meant so > much to stimulate a debate, but rather to try to set a tone for this group > and to progress the cause of the eastern Polish victims of Soviet > aggression.? Please bear with me and pardon the length of this response. > > In general, the Kresy-Siberia group is set up to be a mutually supportive > and collaborative one promoting "Research, Remembrance and Recognition", and > it is REPECTFULLY REQUESTED that members maintain that spirit in order to > retain their membership. > > The question that Janie and Ed are debating is whether Polish survivors of > Soviet persecution can and should be recognised and remembered at the > Holocaust Museum in Washington. > > First of all it is a fact that they can. > > I wrote to them and asked directly if I could register my family who were > persecuted by the Soviets in 1940-42, and they said yes and sent me > registration forms.? Here is a quote from their site: "the Registry defines > a Holocaust survivor as anyone who suffered persecutions by Nazis and/or > their allies as a result of the racial, political or ethnic policies from > 1933 to 1945 and who survived the end of World War II: camp survivors, > political prisoners, persons in hiding, refugees from territories under rule > of Germany and its allies, as well as evacuees from territories which were > occupied later, etc. Other victims of persecution by the Nazis and their > allies... are also considered survivors" > > As you know, the Soviets were the allies of the Nazis in the destruction of > Poland from 1939 to 1941. > > Second of all, and here is where I am expressing a personal opinion, I > believe that the Polish survivors SHOULD be registered and recognised at the > Holocaust Museum. > > Let me explain why.? It is true that the U.S. Holocaust Museum is dominated > by remembrance of Jewish victims.? This is not surprising, as the Jews were > a primary target of the Nazi genocide and drove the establishment of the > museum.? However, while it is normal to feel it unfair that Polish victims > of the Nazis (and the Soviets) are not recognised in the same way as the > Jewish victims are, the question is what to do about it and how to change > that. > > I suggest that the best way to change this is for the Poles to take their > place alongside the other victims and recognise their suffering together, > rather than to avoid the established memorial centres as being "only for the > Jews". > > The Holocaust Museum in Washington was set up by the American Government as > THE institution to remember and recognise ALL victims of the Nazis and their > allies.? In the absence of a POLISH-ONLY HOLOCAUST MUSEUM, why not take > advantage of the U.S. HOLOCAUST MUSEUM to recognise our families and their > courage to survive the Soviets? > > Here's an idea that has fired my imagination! > > For the Registry's purposes, anyone displaced by the racial, political and > ethnic policies of the Nazis or their allies who survived until the end of > the war is considered a survivor.? The Registry of Holocaust Survivors > currently contains the names of over 115,000 survivors - most in the United > States or Canada, although some from survivors who live in other countries. > > Imagine how public opinion would be shaped if we were to register the names > of the over 100,000 Polish survivors of the Soviet Gulags who escaped > through Persia with General Anders at the Holocaust Museum?? Though we > actually have tens of thousands of names and brief histories at the Hoover > Institution, the only catch is that survivors need to fill out the > registration themselves or be registered by their relatives. > > Okay, so that let's Irene at the Hoover off the hook!? But what if the 50 > members of this group registered their own family survivors as a start and > we got the ball rolling on this recognition and remembrance thing?? That > would be hundreds of names.? There are also spaces for 2nd and 3rd > generation descendants of the Survivors (guys like me). > > In short, I would encourage all of us with WW2 Survivors in our families to > take up our rightful place by going to > http://www.ushmm.org/remembrance/registry/ and getting the form and > registering them.? (Forms are even available in Polish!) > > If somebody does not want to take up this right and opportunity, of course > that is completely up to them. > > Kindest regards, > > -- > Stefan Wisniowski > Moderator, Kresy-Siberia > > QUOTE FROM www.ushmm.org/museum/council/mission.htm > "The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is America's national > institution for the documentation, study, and interpretation of Holocaust > history, and serves as this country's memorial to the millions of people > murdered during the Holocaust. > > The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and > annihilation of European Jewry by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between > 1933 and 1945. Jews were the primary victims --- six million were murdered; > Gypsies, the handicapped, and Poles were also targeted for destruction or > decimation for racial, ethnic, or national reasons. Millions more, including > homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Soviet prisoners of war, and political > dissidents also suffered grievous oppression and death under Nazi tyranny. > > The Museum's primary mission is to advance and disseminate knowledge about > this unprecedented tragedy; to preserve the memory of those who suffered; > and to encourage its visitors to reflect upon the moral and spiritual > questions raised by the events of the Holocaust as well as their own > responsibilities as citizens of a democracy." > > > From: "edtar" > > Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@... > > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:34:59 -0400 > > To: > > Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS > > > > > > Dear Janie, when yoy say they are trying to include everyone you are talking > > about the holocaust museum/memorial. If you go to the web you referenced you > > will find it is for Jews.? The registry is for the Jews. > > I am not a Jew and most if not all Kresy-Siberia members are non Jews and > > further they are mostly Christian Catholic/Orthodox/Unite? Poles who were > > deported to the slave labor camps in the USSR or their descendants. There were > > very few Jews deported to Siberia. > > By the way, who were the Associates of the Gemans/Nazis???? > > Edward > > > >> --- Original Message ----- > >> From: jmicchelli@... > >> To: Kresy-Siberia@... > >> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 3:59 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS > >> > >> Dear Ed, > >> If you go to the web-site, you will see that they are trying to include > >> EVERYONE > >> WHO WAS AFFECTED BY THE NAZIS AND THEIR ASSOCIATES........ > >> THAT INCLUDES MY FAMILY AS WELL AS YOURS..............AND IF THIS IS THE WAY > >> TO GET RECOGNIZATION, SO BE IT.......... > >> JANIE > >> > >> > >>> You have your wires crossed. > >>> Holocaust memerial is for Jews who were persecuted by the Germans. > >>> Kresy-Siberia is for all Polish citizens who were deported to Siberia and > >>> persecuted by the Soviets. > >>> Ed Tarchalski > >>> > >>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: jmicchelli@... To: > >>>> ":Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com ; "To:Kresy-Siberia"@yahoogroups.com Sent: > >>>> Monday, October 15, 2001 1:17 PM Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Stefan and other group members, > >>>> > >>>> A few months ago I wrote Stefan, to tell him that I was going to register > >>>> my > >>>> family at this site, it is at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, I did > >>>> so just a few weeks ago, here is a click-on with more information. They > >>>> are > >>>> looking to document survivors of the Holocaust (this is not only for > >>>> members > >>>> of the Jewish community). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Click here: Remembrance | Registry of Holocaust Survivors > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> The Registry defines a survivor as a person who was displaced, persecuted, > >>>> and/or discriminated against by the racial, religious, ethnic, and > >>>> political > >>>> policies of the Nazis and their allies. In addition to former inmates of > >>>> concentration camps and ghettos this includes, among others, refugees and > >>>> people in hiding. > >>>> > >>>> Please help us to document survivors who are not yet registered by passing > >>>> on information about this Registry. ---------- I think that a lot of the > >>>> members in this group qualify as survivors, please take a few minutes and > >>>> see if this is something you would do. > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP > +?? Research, Remembrance, Recognition > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +? ? Websites:? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia > +? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? www.AForgottenOdyssey.com > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +? ? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list. > +? ? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@... > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +? ? To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to: > +? ? Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@... AND > +? ? a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@... > +? ? saying who you are and your interest in the group > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > +?? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > +?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@... > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? +?? Research, Remembrance, Recognition? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +? ? Websites:? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia? +? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +? ? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list. +? ? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@...?? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +? ? To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to: +? ? Kresy-Siberia-owner@...? ? +? ? saying who you are and your interest in the group? ? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +?? To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:?? +?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...? ? ? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from? rly-xd04.mail.aol.com (rly-xd04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.169]) by air-xd02.mail.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILINXD21-1017041757; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 04:17:57 -0400 Received: from? n14.groups.yahoo.com (n14.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.64]) by rly-xd04.mx.aol.com (v80.21) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXD49-1017041730; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 04:17:31 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-3990911-138-1003306640-JCBSERV=aol.com@... Received: from [10.1.1.220] by n14.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2001 08:18:15 -0000 X-Sender: tomaszkc@... X-Apparently-To: Kresy-Siberia@... Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Oct 2001 08:17:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 21997 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 08:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) ? by 10.1.1.220 with QMQP; 17 Oct 2001 08:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO creative.actrix.co.nz) (203.96.26.135) ? by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 08:17:15 -0000 Received: from pavilion (wn-d142.connections.net.nz [202.154.130.142]) ? ? by creative.actrix.co.nz (Postfix) with SMTP id 56666BAF ? ? for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:16:26 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <004901c156e5$860ec920$cb829aca@pavilion> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "Krystine Tomaszyk" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list Kresy-Siberia@...; contact Kresy-Siberia-owner@... Delivered-To: mailing list Kresy-Siberia@... Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:01 +1300 Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +?? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP???????????????????????????????? +?? Research, Remembrance, Recognition??????????????????? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +??? Websites:? ? +???????????????????????? http:/www.AForgottenOdyssey.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +??? Replies to this message will go directly to the full list. +??? Send e-mails to:? Kresy-Siberia@...?? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +??? To SUBSCRIBE, send an e-mail to: +??? Kresy-Siberia-owner@...??? +??? saying who you are and your interest in the group??? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +?? To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:?? +?? Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@...????? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the . ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from? rly-yc02.mail.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILINYC44-1017190703; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:07:03 -0400 Received: from? n9.groups.yahoo.com (n9.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.59]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYC25-1017190642; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:06:42 -0400 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-3990911-153-1003359955-JCBSERV=aol.com@... Received: from [10.1.4.52] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2001 23:05:55 -0000 X-Sender: JCBSERV@... X-Apparently-To: Kresy-Siberia@... Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_0_1); 17 Oct 2001 23:05:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 46947 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 23:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) ? by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 17 Oct 2001 23:05:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d07.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.39) ? by mta2 with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 23:05:38 -0000 Received: from JCBSERV@... ? ? by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id r.144.33584f4 (4397) ? ? for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <144.33584f4.28ff68bb@...> To: Kresy-Siberia@... X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 From: JCBSERV@... MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list Kresy-Siberia@...; contact Kresy-Siberia-owner@... Delivered-To: mailing list Kresy-Siberia@... Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:05:31 EDT Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@... Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] SURVIVORS of the War Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_144.33584f4.28ff68bb_boundary" |