</A><B

<BR>*

?

----- Original Message -----

From: Anne Kaczanowski

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:54 AM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polish flag on Monte Cassino

Just a tidbit of info some may be interested in knowing.

?

I am in London and have visited the Sikorski museum.? In a book I read somehere along the line, there was a story about how the flag got hoisted on the capture of Monte Cassino hill. ?It wrote about how the first soldiers who reached the top of the Monte Cassino hill had no official flag to hoist. They had cloth from the Red Cross that they wrapped bodies in , and so they ripped a piece of this red and white material and an ol' handkierchief and stitched together a makeshift Polish flag to hoist on a pole on the hill.? Within hours apparently an official flag was hoisted but it was this makeshift one that was the first Polish flag on the hill marking its capture.? I never knew whether this was in fact?true or just a great story.? Well it is true and the flag is on display at the museum.?

?

It is triangular,?less than 2 feet long ?with the red on top and a tiny bit of white fabric on the material below it, white being perhaps only an inch wide on the wide end. ?Then a light grey handkerchief is stitched?underneath the white with delicate stitching of white thread. The flag is wider on the right and pointed on the left. ?It was a sight to see and am happy the story is true.?

?

?

hania

---

Do you Yahoo!?
- Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*

Well I'm not sure that the "Ukrainian State" ever had this territory to
loose it.? Hope someone can correct me here if I'm wrong, but Ukraine as? a
state only came into existence during/after WWII.

I've looked at a lot of old maps I have and I don't see the name "Ukraine"
on any of them pre WWII.? Prior to that, The area east of Poland was called
USSR, Grand Dutchy of Lithuania, Kiovie NSE,...etc..

Jame's Mitchner's book , Poland? shows a map of the eastern Europe how it
looked in prior to WWII, and there is no Ukraine on it. To the east of
Poland is Soviet Union, south is Chechoslovakia, east Germany.


The enclosed map shows the "Fiefs of the Kingdom of Poland", I'm still
reading the book to figure out what years this map was valid from-to.
Odessa is not written on the map, but it would be just west along the Black
sea from Oczakow and clearly within the borders of the Polish Kingdom.

Zbyszek


-----Original Message-----
From: mirzabie@... [mailto:mirzabie@...]
Sent: October 26, 2004 12:23 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Odessa map


Could you say when the Ukrainian State lost the territory?

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter Grabowski

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Odessa map

Zbyszek

?

Thank you for your message - Can you please try and send the map again as I cannot open it.

?

I will keep the you all informed of my searches.

?

Again many thanks for your message.

?

Peter??

----- Original Message -----

From: Zbigniew Bob Styrna

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:06 PM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Odessa map

Peter,

?

This was a very sad story about your dad. Welcome to the group and I/we hope you may find some peace with your searches.

I’ve enclosed a very old map, pre WWII of Odessa and area.? This area was Poland’s ancestral land for many centuries that is why all the towns are in Polish.

?

Maybe you can find your dad’s street on here.

?

Pozdrawiam

Zbyszek

?

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Grabowski [mailto:peter@...]
Sent: October 25, 2004 11:09 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction

?

Hi everyone.

?

My father never talked about the war or even his family or his child hood. As far his?new family was concerned he was a Pole who fought against the Germans who invaded his homeland and who ended up in England to start a new life. The impression we got from my father was that the past was too painfull for him to talk about.

?

It wasn't until just before he died in 1997 at the age of 77 that?I managed to get him to talk a little about his past and he didn't tell me that much.

?

His parents were Polish -?Bernard & Maria (nee Brzusinska) Grabowski they lived in Odessa. His father was a shoe maker and he had two younger brothers - Piotr and Leonard. He wrote down an address in Odessa where he lived and I believe that this address still exists.

?

When he died I had to sort out his affairs?and I found a black box (apparently he stole this?from a German - it has a swastika imprinted on it) in the box?I found about 30 photographs mainly connected to his travels through the war years. One is a photograph of the Polish army unit I believe that he fought in - Destazowana Kompani Saperow. I have obtained his army records from the 24th August 1942 when he served with the Polish forces under British Command. In these records it states; " Together with the Polish Army he crossed the Soviety-Iranian frontier, was evacuated to Iran, thereby came under British Command with effect from 15th August 1942". Via Iraq was transferred to Palestine. and then on to Italy

?

He fought at Monte Cassino and I am proud to have in my possession his "Cross for Monte Cassino".

?

On the 8th November my Polish friend Marian Rabczak has agreed to go with me to Odessa to start my quest to try and find?out?anything?I can about my father and his family. I am going to start by simply knocking on the door of the address my father gave me - I have to start somewhere!?

?

I did not know anything about the Kresy-Siberia group and its reason for being in existence but I am pretty sure that I am about to learn a lot more.

?

Peter Grabowski??

?

·???????? ?

*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*





*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*

Bert,

I just wanted to help by providing an old pre WWII map of the area.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Zbyszek

Bert,

I just wanted to help by providing an old pre WWII map of the area.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Zbyszek

-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Bakker [mailto:bert_bakker41@...]
Sent: October 26, 2004 12:17 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Odessa map



--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
<styrna@t...> wrote:

I've enclosed a very old map, pre WWII of Odessa and area.
This area was Poland's ancestral land for many centuries that
is why all the towns are in Polish.

Zbyszek,


I am afraid that you are making a bit of an imperialist boast here.

Because there is nothing `Polish ancestral' about Odessa.
The Polish-Lithuanian Confederation occupied these Ukrainian lands
until they lost the territory.

And, of course, no lands remain `ancestral' for just a few
centuries.
They are so forever - or not at all.


Bert Bakker
Nelspruit
South Africa

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :

To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

Yahoo! Groups Links

Bert,

I just wanted to help by providing an old pre WWII map of the area.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Zbyszek

-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Bakker [mailto:bert_bakker41@...]
Sent: October 26, 2004 12:17 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Odessa map



--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Zbigniew Bob Styrna"
<styrna@t...> wrote:

I've enclosed a very old map, pre WWII of Odessa and area.
This area was Poland's ancestral land for many centuries that
is why all the towns are in Polish.

Zbyszek,


I am afraid that you are making a bit of an imperialist boast here.

Because there is nothing `Polish ancestral' about Odessa.
The Polish-Lithuanian Confederation occupied these Ukrainian lands
until they lost the territory.

And, of course, no lands remain `ancestral' for just a few
centuries.
They are so forever - or not at all.


Bert Bakker
Nelspruit
South Africa

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :

To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

Yahoo! Groups Links

Peter,

I wish you the best of luck in your quest to find some of your
ancestry. You are being noble. My dad was also in Polish Army. I
will try to find what division. Regards, Tereska

Hi everyone.

My father never talked about the war or even his family or his

child hood. As far his new family was concerned he was a Pole who
fought against the Germans who invaded his homeland and who ended up
in England to start a new life. The impression we got from my father
was that the past was too painfull for him to talk about.

It wasn't until just before he died in 1997 at the age of 77 that

I managed to get him to talk a little about his past and he didn't
tell me that much.

His parents were Polish - Bernard & Maria (nee Brzusinska)

Grabowski they lived in Odessa. His father was a shoe maker and he
had two younger brothers - Piotr and Leonard. He wrote down an
address in Odessa where he lived and I believe that this address
still exists.

When he died I had to sort out his affairs and I found a black box

(apparently he stole this from a German - it has a swastika
imprinted on it) in the box I found about 30 photographs mainly
connected to his travels through the war years. One is a photograph
of the Polish army unit I believe that he fought in - Destazowana
Kompani Saperow. I have obtained his army records from the 24th
August 1942 when he served with the Polish forces under British
Command. In these records it states; " Together with the Polish Army
he crossed the Soviety-Iranian frontier, was evacuated to Iran,
thereby came under British Command with effect from 15th August
1942". Via Iraq was transferred to Palestine. and then on to Italy

He fought at Monte Cassino and I am proud to have in my possession

his "Cross for Monte Cassino".

On the 8th November my Polish friend Marian Rabczak has agreed to

go with me to Odessa to start my quest to try and find out anything
I can about my father and his family. I am going to start by simply
knocking on the door of the address my father gave me - I have to
start somewhere!

I did not know anything about the Kresy-Siberia group and its

reason for being in existence but I am pretty sure that I am about
to learn a lot more.

Peter Grabowski

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish

deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."

Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :

To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...

Yahoo! Groups Links

----- Original Message -----

From: Linder Carole Ladbrooke

To: Kresy-Siberia@...

Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:27 PM

Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction

Helo Peter,

?

I'm Linder and I live in Long Eaton, Nottingham. The group get's closer. Good luck in your searches

Linder

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Grabowski [mailto:peter@...]
Sent: 25 October 2004 22:31
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction

Helena,

Thanks for the message - I will let you have details of any progress I make.

I live in Nottingham

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Helena Danielczuk"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction


>
> Hello Peter
>
> Where are you in UK?
>
> You will find what you need to and you will learn more because that has
been
> the one thing which drives any of us, to find out about ourselves and this
> we do by finding out and understanding about outr parents and
grandparents.
>
> Since I have hd the honoour and privilege to belong to this group I have
at
> times been ashamed at my behaviour towards my parents and their generation
> in the past, but i am so lucky that I now understand them more and feel so
> humbled that and so grateful that they are my parents. I am so lucky too
> that I can still have time with them and take advantage of my new
> understanding of them and maybe redress and compesate them for any hurt i
> might have caused them through my own ignorance and behaviour.
> The one thing you will find we all have in common too is the reluctance on
> the part of our parents or grandparents to discuss these things.? There
are
> many theories why this is so.
>
> Good luck
> Never lose faith
>
>
>
>
> Bye 4 now Hela.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Peter Grabowski"
> >Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
> >To:
> >Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction
> >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:08:54 +0100
> >
> >Hi everyone.
> >
> >My father never talked about the war or even his family or his child
hood.
> >As far his new family was concerned he was a Pole who fought against the
> >Germans who invaded his homeland and who ended up in England to start a
new
> >life. The impression we got from my father was that the past was too
> >painfull for him to talk about.
> >
> >It wasn't until just before he died in 1997 at the age of 77 that I
managed
> >to get him to talk a little about his past and he didn't tell me that
much.
> >
> >His parents were Polish - Bernard & Maria (nee Brzusinska) Grabowski they
> >lived in Odessa. His father was a shoe maker and he had two younger
> >brothers - Piotr and Leonard. He wrote down an address in Odessa where he
> >lived and I believe that this address still exists.
> >
> >When he died I had to sort out his affairs and I found a black box
> >(apparently he stole this from a German - it has a swastika imprinted on
> >it) in the box I found about 30 photographs mainly connected to his
travels
> >through the war years. One is a photograph of the Polish army unit I
> >believe that he fought in - Destazowana Kompani Saperow. I have obtained
> >his army records from the 24th August 1942 when he served with the Polish
> >forces under British Command. In these records it states; " Together with
> >the Polish Army he crossed the Soviety-Iranian frontier, was evacuated to
> >Iran, thereby came under British Command with effect from 15th August
> >1942". Via Iraq was transferred to Palestine. and then on to Italy
> >
> >He fought at Monte Cassino and I am proud to have in my possession his
> >"Cross for Monte Cassino".
> >
> >On the 8th November my Polish friend Marian Rabczak has agreed to go with
> >me to Odessa to start my quest to try and find out anything I can about
my
> >father and his family. I am going to start by simply knocking on the door
> >of the address my father gave me - I have to start somewhere!
> >
> >I did not know anything about the Kresy-Siberia group and its reason for
> >being in existence but I am pretty sure that I am about to learn a lot
> >more.
> >
> >Peter Grabowski
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
>
>
>
>
>
>
*
>? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
>? "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
citizens
>? deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
>
*
>? Discussion site :
>? Gallery (photos, documents) :
>? Film and info :
>
*
>? To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
>? saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
>? Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
>
*
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*





*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Grabowski [mailto:peter@...]
Sent: 25 October 2004 22:31
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction

Helena,

Thanks for the message - I will let you have details of any progress I make.

I live in Nottingham

Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Helena Danielczuk"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction


>
> Hello Peter
>
> Where are you in UK?
>
> You will find what you need to and you will learn more because that has
been
> the one thing which drives any of us, to find out about ourselves and this
> we do by finding out and understanding about outr parents and
grandparents.
>
> Since I have hd the honoour and privilege to belong to this group I have
at
> times been ashamed at my behaviour towards my parents and their generation
> in the past, but i am so lucky that I now understand them more and feel so
> humbled that and so grateful that they are my parents. I am so lucky too
> that I can still have time with them and take advantage of my new
> understanding of them and maybe redress and compesate them for any hurt i
> might have caused them through my own ignorance and behaviour.
> The one thing you will find we all have in common too is the reluctance on
> the part of our parents or grandparents to discuss these things.? There
are
> many theories why this is so.
>
> Good luck
> Never lose faith
>
>
>
>
> Bye 4 now Hela.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Peter Grabowski" <peter@...>
> >Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@...
> >To:
> >Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Introduction
> >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 20:08:54 +0100
> >
> >Hi everyone.
> >
> >My father never talked about the war or even his family or his child
hood.
> >As far his new family was concerned he was a Pole who fought against the
> >Germans who invaded his homeland and who ended up in England to start a
new
> >life. The impression we got from my father was that the past was too
> >painfull for him to talk about.
> >
> >It wasn't until just before he died in 1997 at the age of 77 that I
managed
> >to get him to talk a little about his past and he didn't tell me that
much.
> >
> >His parents were Polish - Bernard & Maria (nee Brzusinska) Grabowski they
> >lived in Odessa. His father was a shoe maker and he had two younger
> >brothers - Piotr and Leonard. He wrote down an address in Odessa where he
> >lived and I believe that this address still exists.
> >
> >When he died I had to sort out his affairs and I found a black box
> >(apparently he stole this from a German - it has a swastika imprinted on
> >it) in the box I found about 30 photographs mainly connected to his
travels
> >through the war years. One is a photograph of the Polish army unit I
> >believe that he fought in - Destazowana Kompani Saperow. I have obtained
> >his army records from the 24th August 1942 when he served with the Polish
> >forces under British Command. In these records it states; " Together with
> >the Polish Army he crossed the Soviety-Iranian frontier, was evacuated to
> >Iran, thereby came under British Command with effect from 15th August
> >1942". Via Iraq was transferred to Palestine. and then on to Italy
> >
> >He fought at Monte Cassino and I am proud to have in my possession his
> >"Cross for Monte Cassino".
> >
> >On the 8th November my Polish friend Marian Rabczak has agreed to go with
> >me to Odessa to start my quest to try and find out anything I can about
my
> >father and his family. I am going to start by simply knocking on the door
> >of the address my father gave me - I have to start somewhere!
> >
> >I did not know anything about the Kresy-Siberia group and its reason for
> >being in existence but I am pretty sure that I am about to learn a lot
> >more.
> >
> >Peter Grabowski
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today!
>
>
>
>
>
>
*
>? KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
>? "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
citizens
>? deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
>
*
>? Discussion site :
>? Gallery (photos, documents) :
>? Film and info :
>
*
>? To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
>? saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
>? Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
>
*
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



*
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
*
Discussion site :
Gallery (photos, documents) :
Film and info :
*
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@...
*

Bert,

I just wanted to help by providing an old pre WWII map of the area.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Zbyszek