We used plastic nails with air gun for the ply on the hulls. It was nice to not have to do much hole filling. But you can’t use them like screws. With screws you can turn them more to increase the holding pressure. With the plastic nails you must apply the pressure and then hold the pressure with the plastic nail. In places where you can’t push on the board yourself, the plastic nails don’t do the job. Unless you have a limited number of clamps and you clamp, shoot, and move the clamp. Then they work.?

Happy boat building.
Here’s to enjoying the details!
P

HEV_1623075082778.png

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9302

We used plastic nails with air gun for the ply on the hulls. It was nice to not have to do much hole filling. But you can’t use them like screws. With screws you can turn them more to increase the holding pressure. With the plastic nails you must apply the pressure and then hold the pressure with the plastic nail. In places where you can’t push on the board yourself, the plastic nails don’t do the job. Unless you have a limited number of clamps and you clamp, shoot, and move the clamp. Then they work.?

Happy boat building.
Here’s to enjoying the details!
P

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9301

Hi Rod

Interesting, please keep us informed about your experience with this manual stapler.
If it is positive, it would be the solution.?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9300

I have been following the comments about composite staples and stapler with great interest. I do not have a compressor and besides would prefer not to have to trail an air hose around. Yesterday I ordered online from Duckworks the Rapter manual stapler along with a box of 14mm (9/16") composite staples. I will soon begin construction of the ECO 6 and hope this addition to my toolbox will help speed the work. I will report back once I have some experience with it.

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9299

开云体育

Real? thanks for feedback

I will check here and the net? to find it(makita)

The nails/stamples already able to pick locally here in Montreal

And like all other ask

Send pictures/video of your boat?

And when sails?

Thanks again?

And great job?

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

HEV_1623075082778.png

Re: New Member -- in Philippines

#9298

David, thanks a lot for your reply. It's really a small world. I'm also an American, but I've been in Asia a bit over 30 yrs now.

About 25 years ago while working in Japan, I belonged to a forum called Pinoyboats.org. All my interaction with the group was online since I lived in Japan, but I did have several years exposure to in-depth discussions about boatbuilding in the Philippines.?A lot of the members were based at the Taal Lake Yacht Club and sailed on the lake there.?Now that we live here (10 miles from Taal Volcano), we often drive?down to the lake on weekends to see the volcano. But, I've still not been to the yacht club -- they've been closed due to the pandemic.

I haven't decided where to go boating yet, but maybe Laguna de Bay in the Sta Rosa, Laguna area. It's the largest lake in the country, about 20 km from us. The Tagaytay-Sta Rosa road is one of the main arteries for visitors from Metro Manila and it's been undergoing a major widening project for about 5 years, and now about 75% finished.

Frankly, I have zero experience in boatbuilding and after I sent that email to Bernd, I started thinking -- maybe the whole idea of asymmetric hulls vs daggerboards doesn't even apply to power cats. That's how little I know about it. But I'm ready to learn and start building sometime in the next one year.

Thanks for your welcome, David.

Regards, Brad

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9297

Hi Bernd, I checked again and it’s not a nail gun but a staple gun Makita AF 301Z. I think it’s a budget Maybe Xhinese tool special for poor Indonesian market. Now about USD 45 only here.?

The staples I used were very light gauge Raptor brand (maybe 1mm?) and only 10mm long as the plywood was only 6mm thick. The system held fast for most of the panels.?

Yes I finished my boat two years ago. I finally overcame the weather helm problem I had by building a bowsprit 1 meter in front of the forward cross beam. Then I ordered a new Code Zero sail and it all came out great.? I’ve only had a few sails at the end of last year to test the new set up but I hope to get many more sails in this season.?

Thank you so much for all your guidance and care and help in finishing this?project. I love the boat so much.?

Cheers. Chris.?

Show quoted text

On Mon, 23 May 2022 at 00.56 Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

Hi Chris

Using Nylon cramps and nails saves sure many many hours. Everybody who builds knows this. Removing screws filling and refilling holes.
Sanding to smooth the surface around is not so funny, and, again, costs a lot of boring work hours.
Thank you, for sharing your experience here. These are reasonable costs for the machinery. They are worth every penny!!
You have finished your ECO 7.5?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9296

Hi Stephane, I used Raptor staples (sorry not nails like I said earlier!)

The staples I used were only 10mm long as my plywood was 6mm thick

sheets. And the guage of the staples was pretty thin but I’m not sure - maybe only 1mm)

I checked again on my stapler and it’s still available in the market here for less money that I thought. Maybe only USD 45. As a Makita product, it must be a super cheap maybe Chinese made (and maybe only for the local Indonesian market??) But it did the job ok. I loaded the gun with only one strip of staples at a time giving 30shots I think.?

I have attached two photos - the brand name is Makita AF 301 Z.?

Good luck in finding it.?

Cheers. Chris.?

Show quoted text

On Wed, 25 May 2022 at 02.43 Stéphane Blanchette <stephane@...> wrote:

Hi?

Do you have name or model of your nail?

If you are able tu use regular nailer it s wow!!!

As like all says raptor are expensive tu use just some time

I already have all air gun(regular nail)

And have a dewalt batterie 2?

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : "christopher gent via " <chrisgent3107=[email protected]>

Date : 2022-05-22 13 h 42 (GMT-05:00)

? : [email protected]

Objet : Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

Dear all, I was also interested in the raptor type nails and gun. But the original Raptor gun was too expensive and difficult for me to buy here in Indonesia.?

Instead, I tried a cheap version of Makita nail gun here in Indonesia. (Price about US$60).? I also bought a cheap 1 HP Chinese compressor for another USD 60. (The Makita gun was pneumatic.)

The nylon (?) nails were the most expensive purchase as they cost around $120 for a small packet of about 1500 pieces and those were sent me by a friend from UK. Cheap shipping - about the same size as a packet of cigarettes.?

The results were very labour saving when attaching the large panels on my Eco 7.5 build. No need for all those hundreds of drill holes, screws, removal of screws, epoxy filling etc etc.?

Highly recommend this as a great alternative.?

Regards. Chris.?

On Sun, 22 May 2022 at 23.20 Stéphane Blanchette <stephane@...> wrote:

It s? from RAPTOR? nail and crown?

They sell nail composite ,able to sand,cut? and stain its ,

Like 4 year a go I look for that but?

Need the gun and not cheap!

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : "Bernd Kohler via " <ikarus342000=[email protected]>

Date : 2022-05-22 11 h 16 (GMT-05:00)

? : [email protected]

Objet : Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

What I wanted to ask you for a long time. What tool did you use to apply the plastic cramps?

They save a lot of time.?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: New Member -- in Philippines

#9295

Welcome to the K-Designs forum.

Are you planning on using your boat on Lake Taal?

I have fond memories sailing on lake Taal years ago. It was often pretty windy in the afternoon with steep, short period, waves due to short fetch. Such conditions are uncomfortable in small power boats. For example, I think boats like Bernd's Eco 5 would have lots of bridge deck slamming. Are these the conditions you plan to use your powerboat? My recollection is that the 12 to 16 meter bangka had no trouble other than being a little wet.
?
Also, my recollection is that some of the roads around Tagaytay and Taal used to be pretty narrow. Beam is an important consideration in small multihulls. So for example, can the roads around you handle 2.5m wide boats?

David
Bainbridge Island, WA, USA

Re: KD 122

#9294

Hi all
I posted some new pics in the D.R. Voyager album.?/g/K-designs-Multihull-Sailboats/album?id=140477

We have done lots of glassing and sanding. In retrospect, I would still do composite (fiberglass) stanchion bases, but I would have placed them just a bit more inboard to be fully encased in the deck. I would probably not recommend composite cleats, unless you find a way to spend less time getting them smooth. Embedding the bolts for metal cleats in epoxy would be easy with a good backing block, I would think. Same with the toe rails.?

We made a hardtop over the cockpit. It is a bit of a scramble to get out of the cockpit on the starboard side, but not too bad. The overhang on the front of the cabin was a bit annoying to sand. But not too bad.?

I would also like to say that it would be very easy to build this boat if you just stick to the basics. I have made it hard on myself in a few places, like all the inside corners I created.?

And finally a tip that you might already know: it has been very helpful and time saving to fiberglass over an epoxy fillet in one job. That way you do not have to sand the fillet again. Just get your glass ready, then make the epoxy fillet, then lay the pre-wet glass it, then fill the weave. If your weave filling mix is not too thick, it will make a nice smooth fillet that is easy to sand.?

That’s all.
Patrick

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9293

Thank you for sharing these photos. Like Bernd has asked, show us the entire boat, including the sails. We want to be able to admire your workmanship.

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9292

开云体育

Hi?

Do you have name or model of your nail?

If you are able tu use regular nailer it s wow!!!

As like all says raptor are expensive tu use just some time

I already have all air gun(regular nail)

And have a dewalt batterie 2?

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

Show quoted text

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : "christopher gent via groups.io" <chrisgent3107@...>

Date : 2022-05-22 13 h 42 (GMT-05:00)

? : [email protected]

Objet : Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

Dear all, I was also interested in the raptor type nails and gun. But the original Raptor gun was too expensive and difficult for me to buy here in Indonesia.?

Instead, I tried a cheap version of Makita nail gun here in Indonesia. (Price about US$60).? I also bought a cheap 1 HP Chinese compressor for another USD 60. (The Makita gun was pneumatic.)

The nylon (?) nails were the most expensive purchase as they cost around $120 for a small packet of about 1500 pieces and those were sent me by a friend from UK. Cheap shipping - about the same size as a packet of cigarettes.?

The results were very labour saving when attaching the large panels on my Eco 7.5 build. No need for all those hundreds of drill holes, screws, removal of screws, epoxy filling etc etc.?

Highly recommend this as a great alternative.?

Regards. Chris.?

On Sun, 22 May 2022 at 23.20 Stéphane Blanchette <stephane@...> wrote:

It s? from RAPTOR? nail and crown?

They sell nail composite ,able to sand,cut? and stain its ,

Like 4 year a go I look for that but?

Need the gun and not cheap!

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : "Bernd Kohler via " <ikarus342000=[email protected]>

Date : 2022-05-22 11 h 16 (GMT-05:00)

? : [email protected]

Objet : Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

What I wanted to ask you for a long time. What tool did you use to apply the plastic cramps?

They save a lot of time.?

Cheers

Bernd

HEV_1623075082778.png

New Member -- in Philippines

#9291

Hello Bernd,

First, I want to say I've much admired your work over the years and your vast experience?in designing and building plywood-epoxy-glass multihulls.?I've been a "secret" fan of yours for 20+ years -- all the while dreaming of building a?K-Designs catamaran.

Now I'm retired and living in the Philippines, and preparing to choose a set of plans and start building.?For my purposes, I want a small, easy-to-build, trailerable catamaran to enjoy with my 7-yr-old?son (he thinks he's 15).?I don't want to learn how to sail, so I want a power cat. And?over the years, I've greatly admired your work with asymmetric hulls and I want to avoid the complexity?of daggerboards. Right now, I'm thinking about an O.A. length of 5.5 to 8 meters.

Would very much appreciate your input and advice.

Thank you kindly, Brad Morton (Tagaytay City --
Home of Lake Taal Yacht Club and Taal Volcano)

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9290

Hi Chris

Using Nylon cramps and nails saves sure many many hours. Everybody who builds knows this. Removing screws filling and refilling holes.
Sanding to smooth the surface around is not so funny, and, again, costs a lot of boring work hours.
Thank you, for sharing your experience here. These are reasonable costs for the machinery. They are worth every penny!!
You have finished your ECO 7.5?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9289

Dear all, I was also interested in the raptor type nails and gun. But the original Raptor gun was too expensive and difficult for me to buy here in Indonesia.?

Instead, I tried a cheap version of Makita nail gun here in Indonesia. (Price about US$60).? I also bought a cheap 1 HP Chinese compressor for another USD 60. (The Makita gun was pneumatic.)

The nylon (?) nails were the most expensive purchase as they cost around $120 for a small packet of about 1500 pieces and those were sent me by a friend from UK. Cheap shipping - about the same size as a packet of cigarettes.?

The results were very labour saving when attaching the large panels on my Eco 7.5 build. No need for all those hundreds of drill holes, screws, removal of screws, epoxy filling etc etc.?

Highly recommend this as a great alternative.?

Regards. Chris.?

Show quoted text

On Sun, 22 May 2022 at 23.20 Stéphane Blanchette <stephane@...> wrote:

It s? from RAPTOR? nail and crown?

They sell nail composite ,able to sand,cut? and stain its ,

Like 4 year a go I look for that but?

Need the gun and not cheap!

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : "Bernd Kohler via " <ikarus342000=[email protected]>

Date : 2022-05-22 11 h 16 (GMT-05:00)

? : [email protected]

Objet : Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

What I wanted to ask you for a long time. What tool did you use to apply the plastic cramps?

They save a lot of time.?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: 10 photos uploaded #photo-notice

#9288

I know. I built my Cataproa partly in this way.?
I was hoping you have found a reasonably priced gun

Thanks anyway

Bernd

And yes please, next time some photos from the whole boat ;-))