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Date

Re: Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

 

Zee,
I? am attaching the sheet I have on the rudder and tiller arrangements. Not having built or even started the project I am not sure that it will be helpful. I hope you are able to complete the build and reach out if you want to problem solve around the missing design. I am a creative problem solver and willing to help.

Scott




On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 4:09 AM Zee <ratsheldon@...> wrote:
You have ignored a bunch of my emails where I was asking you for missing drawings , no response , while I can see you are online . I never got any rudder case drawings from you , nor did you say that you sent some . If you did send them in January last year , how hard would it be to inform me about it when you noticed that I am asking for the drawings again ? But in general?the plans I got were incomplete in many places and some sheets are confusingly from another boat . Another really bad thing is that your plywood material list? is doubled ! As a result?of that? I have about 14 extra sheets of 9 mm ply . the drawing that you sent of missing bulkhead 5 was all wrong dimensions (check that , its still there ) , i had to plot it myself at the end ,?or I would have a very strange looking hull? . Next is your mast clamp . you never noticed that it can not possibly work because?it can not turn at all the way you designed it . So I had to reinvent the system to secure the masts , after I came with the solution I have seen on the internet the? same system on many other free standing rigs . I am surprised that the best you came with is a dodgy plywood clamp that can not possibly work . I demand again that you send me a proper drawing for the rudder case , without excuses , and rectify your mistake? ?

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 10:44 AM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:
Hello Zee

I was sending you the missing drawing rudder house drawing on 18, January.?
You never explained what you missed more. If you need more information or
clarification you could ask.

Bernd


Re: Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

 

Hi Zee

First and for all. I did not receive your emails. I checked this again this morning. Not in the SPAM folder (which I do not check anyway) not in the DELETED folder.?
I have sent you a private email. This is also the email that works.
The clamp works by the way, But you need an inspection hatch on the bulkhead. Of course, there are also other solutions. This is only aside. I will check the other drawing.?
As I mentioned in the private email. I do not know what you want in the end. I am still here to help. I am just known for that in this business

Bernd



?


Re: Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

 

You have ignored a bunch of my emails where I was asking you for missing drawings , no response , while I can see you are online . I never got any rudder case drawings from you , nor did you say that you sent some . If you did send them in January last year , how hard would it be to inform me about it when you noticed that I am asking for the drawings again ? But in general?the plans I got were incomplete in many places and some sheets are confusingly from another boat . Another really bad thing is that your plywood material list? is doubled ! As a result?of that? I have about 14 extra sheets of 9 mm ply . the drawing that you sent of missing bulkhead 5 was all wrong dimensions (check that , its still there ) , i had to plot it myself at the end ,?or I would have a very strange looking hull? . Next is your mast clamp . you never noticed that it can not possibly work because?it can not turn at all the way you designed it . So I had to reinvent the system to secure the masts , after I came with the solution I have seen on the internet the? same system on many other free standing rigs . I am surprised that the best you came with is a dodgy plywood clamp that can not possibly work . I demand again that you send me a proper drawing for the rudder case , without excuses , and rectify your mistake? ?


On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 10:44 AM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:
Hello Zee

I was sending you the missing drawing rudder house drawing on 18, January.?
You never explained what you missed more. If you need more information or
clarification you could ask.

Bernd


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

good point about periods of use thanks so much

Hamish?

On Friday, January 21, 2022, 12:55:55 PM GMT+13, Ron Hall <ron.mouzzer@...> wrote:


Had composting toilet on boat for several years. Needs venting and fan to move air through compost and keep aerobic digesting bacteria healthy. Ran tube from toilet to solar powered vent in cabin top. Composters ideal for liveaboards who keep toilet in use, but less ideal for intermittent users, where compost can dry out and isn't being stirred often. Modern chemical toilet better for weekend/intermittent use.


On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 10:29 carr.hamish via <carr.hamish=[email protected]> wrote:
Fantastic David a credit to you. Wonderful to see you getting so much use from the yacht. Having now enjoyed 4 summers with my Eco 5.5 I can say you picked a great design. Just back myself from a less adventurous sail overnight from the northern end of TGA habour to the Southern end. Of course very tide dependent for the move between and even launching and retrieval is at the mercy of the tides. Was doing 10 knots at one stage and it felt very stable and simply accelerated when a gust hit, takes a little getting used to. Am 2 years into building a larger cat for coastal sailing. I like your composting toilet idea and am going the same way, one question, is it vented? I see in one image a pipe in behind. Plans online for RV's mention venting and running a small fan (ex computer fan). Would appreciate some clarity there thanks. Enjoy the remainder of the summer. Hamish?


Re: Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

 

Bernd has refused to cooperate and to deliver complete plans that I paid for . miserable amateur plans without details and descriptions?anyways . I feel sorry that I wasted my boat building on this .I will report him to Duckworks and warn ppl on forums to rethink building?one of his boats to avoid major disappointments?

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 7:32 AM [email protected] Notification <[email protected]> wrote:

Zee <ratsheldon@...> deleted the album DUO 800S Australia


Re: Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

 

Hello Zee

I was sending you the missing drawing rudder house drawing on 18, January.?
You never explained what you missed more. If you need more information or
clarification you could ask.

Bernd


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

Thank you for the detailed account. I have added your comments to the growing file. Of course, some of your comments encourage more questions but I will save them for when I get started on the build. Once again you are confirming my interest in the ECO 6 - it is living up to and exceeding everything I want from my next boat.


Re: Photo IMG-20211231-WA0009.jpeg updated #photo-notice

 

Yes Bernd,?
Besides a top light and VHF antenna, this the total height of the boat.

Groeten,
Jack


Deleted album DUO 800S Australia #photo-notice

[email protected] Notification
 

Zee <ratsheldon@...> deleted the album DUO 800S Australia


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Rod,

?

Nice to hear from you. I did think of you when I was posting those photos, freezing away in the sub-zero Canadian winter temperatures while we were enjoying the best of a New Zealand summer!

?

We enjoyed our time away. This was the test for the boat ¨C how did it work out as a coastal cruiser for two people for 3 weeks, and it passed with flying colours. All the systems worked well including battery charging, toilet, and galley, and sailing. Even after three weeks and two people the boat did not seem too small. It would be nice to be able to stand up inside rather than shuffling around on one¡¯s backside, but it was okay. The biggest drawback of the boat is lack of load carrying ability, but we took away too much stuff. Clothes we never wore, and we brought back a lot of uneaten food. I think I was preparing for an expedition to remote places when in reality food and water were available in many places we stopped. The lack of weight carrying ability affected windward performance in light airs, but had no noticeable effect when sailing off the wind. The top speed I saw was 11.2 knots, but I am sure we went a lot faster at times.

?

Here is a summary of how things worked out:

?

  • Water, we carried 80 liters which is a lot of weight, but we like to have a solar shower each day and we do our dishes far too often. We topped up on water whenever we could.
  • LPG stove, I swapped the single burner Butane camp stove for a proper 2 burner marine LPG stove a few months ago. With the butane stove we seemed to get through a cannister every day and a bit, so for three weeks we would need a lot of cannisters and it would be expensive. I carried a 2kg LPG bottle which I had refilled after two weeks and we had only used 1 kg which cost $5, so a lot cheaper to run than the butane stove, and with two burners food preparation is easier.
  • Outboard, I thought of buying a separate 12 liter tote tank rather than using the internal tank on the motor, but did not in the end. We carried 15 liters of petrol which was too much, 10 liters would have been fine. We did motor for almost 10 hours one day when there was no wind and I found out just how far we could go on the 1.5 liter internal tank, which was a long way! The 6 hp motor was more than adequate, probably a 4hp would be fine.
  • Electrics, no issues Our 120 watts of solar panels kept everything going just fine including the fridge switched on the whole time and using the tiller pilot during the whole of that long day of motoring. But this is the height of the New Zealand summer with a lot of sunshine hours, it might be different in the winter.
  • Mainsail area could have been a bit larger to help with light air performance with all the weight we were carrying, I am down about 1.3 sqm over the designed sail area, but there were a few times when we had to reef the mainsail and even one day we had two reefs in the main, so at those times we had plenty of sail area.
  • The Code 0 worked out well in light to moderate conditions. It is on a furler and once we used it the first time we kept it hoisted. I should have made the bowsprit a bit longer to keep the sail more away from the forestay. But bear in mind that our boat has a mast head rig rather than the fractional rig as in Bernd¡¯s plans.
  • During rough sea conditions we had a lot of water come up through the cockpit drains which are just 30mm diameter holes drilled through the cockpit floor, and also a lot of water through the cockpit locker drain. So I am going to modify all of these drains to try and stop the water ingress.
  • Bilge keels, as you know I used the bilge keel option rather than a dagger board. I have to say that during this cruise I once again never noticed any lack of windward performance when I needed it so for me for what we are doing with the boat the bilge keels are working out just fine. ?
  • The toilet worked out well, and that comment came from my wife who is hard to please when it comes to toilets! Really it is probably the best boat toilet I have ever had and it cost almost nothing. The fact that the urine drains directly overboard helped, and we emptied the solids bucket once a week, But no smell and much easier than a chemical toilet where you need to lug the heavy tanks in and out of the boat. In New Zealand we are not allowed to discharge raw sewerage when close to shore so the composting system I had is I think preferable to a complex, expensive, and troublesome holding tank system.
  • Dinghy is always an issue on such a small boat. We carried a 2.1 meter inflatable dinghy which weighs only 12 kg. It is really only a two person dinghy and I would not want to row it a long distance. On longer passages we deflated the dinghy and carried it rolled up on the foredeck. At other times I experimented with towing the dinghy, or carrying it inflated on either the cabin top or foredeck, but it always got in the way. In the end for short distances I would pull the anchor up, and then pull the dinghy on deck and carry it upside down partially on the foredeck, and partially on the cabin top on the port side. It got in the way of the jib a bit like this but it was the best solution.

?

But that is it. The Eco 6 is a big 6 meter boat and we enjoyed it. This is the smallest yacht we have owned, the others all being 9 meters to 11 meters. But despite its small size the Eco 6 is an enjoyable boat on which to spend time and works well for us as a coastal cruiser, especially with some of the modifications I have made such as moving the aft cabin bulkhead a little bit further aft, and that companionway dodger is a good addition. Apart from the issues I have mentioned I would not change anything else.

?

David


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

Thank you for posting these photos, David. I confess I was following your cruise on Facebook. We have experienced -45C windchill temperatures in recent weeks on the Canadian prairies and I was completely envious. :-) Your wonderful build of the design, and your photos of construction and now of the boat in use, keep me committed to building my own ECO 6 in time for launching for my 75th birthday in June, 2023.?


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

Had composting toilet on boat for several years. Needs venting and fan to move air through compost and keep aerobic digesting bacteria healthy. Ran tube from toilet to solar powered vent in cabin top. Composters ideal for liveaboards who keep toilet in use, but less ideal for intermittent users, where compost can dry out and isn't being stirred often. Modern chemical toilet better for weekend/intermittent use.


On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 10:29 carr.hamish via <carr.hamish=[email protected]> wrote:
Fantastic David a credit to you. Wonderful to see you getting so much use from the yacht. Having now enjoyed 4 summers with my Eco 5.5 I can say you picked a great design. Just back myself from a less adventurous sail overnight from the northern end of TGA habour to the Southern end. Of course very tide dependent for the move between and even launching and retrieval is at the mercy of the tides. Was doing 10 knots at one stage and it felt very stable and simply accelerated when a gust hit, takes a little getting used to. Am 2 years into building a larger cat for coastal sailing. I like your composting toilet idea and am going the same way, one question, is it vented? I see in one image a pipe in behind. Plans online for RV's mention venting and running a small fan (ex computer fan). Would appreciate some clarity there thanks. Enjoy the remainder of the summer. Hamish?


Re: Photo IMG-20211231-WA0009.jpeg updated #photo-notice

 

Hi Jack

So the solar roof is at the correct height in the last photo?

Groeten

Bernd


Re: Photo IMG-20211231-WA0009.jpeg updated #photo-notice

 

Hi Bernd,

If you have a look at previous photo's you will see the roof laying on supports on the floor with the solarpanels installed.
After installing the roof is complete with solarpanels installed on the boat.
So on the latest picture we can already talk about a solar catamaran.

Groeten,

Jack


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

Fantastic David a credit to you. Wonderful to see you getting so much use from the yacht. Having now enjoyed 4 summers with my Eco 5.5 I can say you picked a great design. Just back myself from a less adventurous sail overnight from the northern end of TGA habour to the Southern end. Of course very tide dependent for the move between and even launching and retrieval is at the mercy of the tides. Was doing 10 knots at one stage and it felt very stable and simply accelerated when a gust hit, takes a little getting used to. Am 2 years into building a larger cat for coastal sailing. I like your composting toilet idea and am going the same way, one question, is it vented? I see in one image a pipe in behind. Plans online for RV's mention venting and running a small fan (ex computer fan). Would appreciate some clarity there thanks. Enjoy the remainder of the summer. Hamish?


Re: DUO for South East Asia

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Andrew,

?

Yes you are right about the difference between power output of a panel, and current output. My 60 watt panels have a maximum rated output current of 3.2 amps, which is interesting because at 5.84 amps going into the battery it means that I am achieving close to maximum output from the panels. Of course this does not happen most of the time. I think my solar controller meter is displaying both the input amperage to the controller, and the output amperage after the controller computer has maximised the output voltage of the panels. In my research when deciding to switch to an MPPT controller it seems that MPPT controllers provide a consistent output improvement over the PWM controllers of 17% plus, and this would be my experience.

?

Cheers,

David


Re: DUO for South East Asia

 


--bon matin a tous?
je vous revient sur les panneau solaire,chargeur mppt optimise vraiment car plusieur panneaux sont voltage different ici j ai 2 panneaux 320watt 47 volt de sortie sur ma maison

il abaisse le voltage mais augmente l amperage

cas de figure :
vers les midi plein soleil? a 12v de sortie pour 50 amp envoye aux batterie
donc panneau 20 volt va retrograde a 12 mais amp va monte

j ai fait test aussi sur eolien? made in china ,sans le mppt(module fournie avec) fournie proche de 0.5 amp seulement si je le branche sur le mppt solaire?
en 12-13v donne souvent 4amps vis 0 .5 avec sont module seul

le module mppt optimise vraiment bien pour compense de voltage a amperage
salutation
stephane blanchette?
montreal canada kd860-kd1000


Photo IMG-20211217-WA0004.jpeg updated #photo-notice

[email protected] Notification
 

The following photos have been updated in the ECO 85 Solar Power album of the [email protected] group.

By: nightline@...


Re: DUO for South East Asia

 

Hi David.
Your 60w solar panels should have a max current rating of around 3A a panel, as the working voltage for the power calculation is somewere around 20v not 12v. Most solar panels of reputable manufacture do put out there rated output. Also MPPT controlers do not boost the power out put from the solar panel, as this would be imposible unless it had an aditional power source from else were. MPPT controlers have the edge over PWM controlers only in marginal operating conditions and in full sun light there is no real difference between the two.
Probarbly of more importance is fitting blocking diodes for situations were multiple panels are conected in parallel to a single regulator and shading will occur on one or more of the panels ,like what tends to happen on a boat.
Kind regards
Andrew.


Re: Added album Eco 6 The first year of sailing. #photo-notice

 

Hello David

Thank you for posting your series of photos.?
It looks like you had a great time.?


cheers

Bernd