Re: Painting advise needed
Yes Brian this is the sensible way to go.? Thanks for summing it up. Go to Brians blog and see the result | | | | | | Feb 2015 Details of my bow net. | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | | ? Cheers
Bernd
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Re: Painting advise needed
The boat was painted ?from the beginning. Epoxy shrink over time (years). There was no UV on the epoxy before it cracked, Remember to paint the top horizontal surfaces with a very whitish or light colour, just off white otherwise you will not be able to walk on them from the heat. Philip
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:43 PM, "wavesailor75@... [k-designs]" wrote:
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Thanks Philip, These are the layers I think I'm going to use:
Plywood Epoxy? Epoxy Fiberglass Cloth Wetted out with 10% Silica Fiberglass Cloth Wetted out with 10% Silica Primer Primer Primer Paint? Paint Bottom Paint? Bottom Paint
I think you answered my question in that since the bottom paint is ablative I should paint the entire hull first and then put on the bottom paint. This seems like alot of layers (and expense) but I'm wary of putting in alot of time, money and work into something and then messing it up because I lost focus at the end.
I think the primer is important but I don't think the paints are as big deal as long as they can stop UV.?
On that, the cured epoxy I've played around with maintains good pliability. I wonder if it was the UV that broke down your epoxy topsides and not CTE mismatch.
-Esteban?
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Re: Painting advise needed
First; - epoxy 1 coat, virtually as a sanding sealer as per Bernd's reccomendation, sand. - glass cloth applied with straight epoxy, then: - 1 or 2 filler coats with small amount micro balloons or something like West's fairing filler wet tacky on tacky
- sand, then 1 coat straight epoxy resin (as per Gourgeon reccomendation) Then your epoxy undercoat or epoxy primer undercoat x2, sand,? then your various topcoat x2 above waterline, ?and antifouling paint of choice below waterline
On no account add any filer of any description to the epoxy that you are applying the glass cloth with- it wont wet the glass cloth out
If your finish is good enough after the final coat of epoxy, then you could leave out the primer as Bernd says, but for a first time boat painter it's probably good insurance to use it
regards Bryan
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Re: Painting advise needed
Thanks Philip, These are the layers I think I'm going to use:
Plywood Epoxy? Epoxy Fiberglass Cloth Wetted out with 10% Silica Fiberglass Cloth Wetted out with 10% Silica Primer Primer Primer Paint? Paint Bottom Paint? Bottom Paint
I think you answered my question in that since the bottom paint is ablative I should paint the entire hull first and then put on the bottom paint. This seems like alot of layers (and expense) but I'm wary of putting in alot of time, money and work into something and then messing it up because I lost focus at the end.
I think the primer is important but I don't think the paints are as big deal as long as they can stop UV.?
On that, the cured epoxy I've played around with maintains good pliability. I wonder if it was the UV that broke down your epoxy topsides and not CTE mismatch.
-Esteban?
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Re: Painting advise needed
Esteban,? did you cover the hulls with glass or cloth?? I covered my hull with three layers of epoxy and two of epoxy flowcote which is basically epoxy with aluminium oxide flakes. This was done with a mohair roller. The layers is applied over the first at the tacky stage so that all the layers form one single compound in the end. The result is a bit of a stipple effect which calls for a lot of sanding before painting with two part motor paint. What I have found is that after eight years the difference in expansion co-efficiant between the marine ply and epoxy layer causes a lot of hairline cracks and the boat loses its water impermeability. This was most notable on the sides that saw most sun or UV, the bottom was ok. This necessitated the top surfaces to be covered with glass, sealed and painted.
My advice is: -Cover all surfaces with glass or the (polyester)material talked about a month ago usepeelply to give you a good prepped surface. -Use S-Fair 600 epoxy fairing compound to smoothe the surface left by the peelply. -Sand -Paint with two part car paint -For the bottom use antifoul of your choice -Sail a lot
Regards Philip Malan
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:11 PM, "toma? ho?evar tomazhocevar1@... [k-designs]" wrote:
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Hi Bernd
Now better weather is about to come and it is perfect time to prepare a boat.
Could you explain exactly -recipe- about under water? use Epoxy/Tar mixture with fused silica ? Tar is known as antifouling substance. Which tar - I have oil, pine or beech tar at home. cheers Tomaz
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I hope other forum members can help you here. On our own boats boats we used not one of these systems. The in my view money machines for the producers. After the last coat of Epoxy we use DD lack. DD lack is a derivative from Epoxy. Of course sanding of the last layer with grid 80 sandpaper is important as well as cleaning with Acetone. Unter water we use Epoxy/Tar mixture with fused silica. No better protection. Then we where trying diverse underwater paints. All sea animals and plants liked them very much. I had the impression the where like fertilizers for them. In Spain we had friends who worked at the marine. We got uw paint from them and yes, these worked. Other ideas please.?
Bernd
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Re: Painting advise needed
Hi Tomaz
As long as it is an organic tar. So pine or beech will be fine. Mix 50% Epoxy with 50% Tar. Use the mixing ratio of your normal Epoxy hardener ratio! Silica, use to stop running only, so apply sparcely. Per volume about 10%.
Cheers Bernd
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Re: DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
Only short, the anti vortex panels can not work on a multi chine hull as I explained some days ago in a letter here at the forum. So to make it clear again no a-vortex panels for the DUO 1000, 1001 and ECO 7.5
Bernd
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Re: DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
And a delta daggerboard is also still on my mind. Running aground without damage would be so comfortable..
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Op 6 apr. 2016 om 14:19 heeft bill.knowsit@... [k-designs] < k-designs@...> het volgende geschreven:
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Yes, I would consider that as well. It looks like the DUO 1001 does that.
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Re: DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
Yes, I would consider that as well. It looks like the DUO 1001 does that.
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Re: Painting advise needed
Hi Bernd
Now better weather is about to come and it is perfect time to prepare a boat.
Could you explain exactly -recipe- about under water? use Epoxy/Tar mixture with fused silica ? Tar is known as antifouling substance. Which tar - I have oil, pine or beech tar at home. cheers Tomaz
?
I hope other forum members can help you here. On our own boats boats we used not one of these systems. The in my view money machines for the producers. After the last coat of Epoxy we use DD lack. DD lack is a derivative from Epoxy. Of course sanding of the last layer with grid 80 sandpaper is important as well as cleaning with Acetone. Unter water we use Epoxy/Tar mixture with fused silica. No better protection. Then we where trying diverse underwater paints. All sea animals and plants liked them very much. I had the impression the where like fertilizers for them. In Spain we had friends who worked at the marine. We got uw paint from them and yes, these worked. Other ideas please.?
Bernd
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Re: new sailing season - improvements
A tacking Harryproa, that is an interesting idea.? I'm the originator of the Tri-harryproa? The idea is if you have a trimaran that doesn't have enough accommodation you substitute an accommodation ama for the flotation ama.? A sidecar trimaran.? there is so much happening with the main hull of a trimaran that often the accommodations are an afterthought, and basically useless.? But as with the Harryproa, if all that is going on in the float is a float with a bubble for accomodations, then you can have a pretty nice space.? Of course it tanks the standard performance of the tri, but that is fine compared to having to make a whole new boat just because one wants to overnight.? One of my uses is just motoring around the river, for which one does not need a lot of performance, but a place to sleep is nice alright.
Speaking of tri accommodations. On the website there is a tri that looks like one of the small cats.? Is it a cat, or is it a tri with a cabin, couldn't find plans for the the latter.
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Re: Painting advise needed
I hope other forum members can help you here. On our own boats boats we used not one of these systems. The in my view money machines for the producers. After the last coat of Epoxy we use DD lack. DD lack is a derivative from Epoxy. Of course sanding of the last layer with grid 80 sandpaper is important as well as cleaning with Acetone. Unter water we use Epoxy/Tar mixture with fused silica. No better protection. Then we where trying diverse underwater paints. All sea animals and plants liked them very much. I had the impression the where like fertilizers for them. In Spain we had friends who worked at the marine. We got uw paint from them and yes, these worked. Other ideas please.?
Bernd
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I'm getting close to actually doing this for the first hull of my 660, left to my own devices this is the plan:
With hull upside down primer with three coats of this.
| | | | Pettit Paint Pettit Protect High Build Epoxy Barrier Marine Primer Coat Pettit Protect High Build Epoxy Barrier Marine Primer Coat | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | |
Then paint the bottom with this:
? | | | | Interlux Micron CF Multi-season Anti-fouling Paint combats slime and wards off barnacles and zebra mussels. Shop now on Wholesale Marine for same-day shipping. | | | | Preview by Yahoo | | |
Then I'm going to turn the hull, finish building the topside and then paint the hull color with something else taking hull paint line right up to the bottom paint line.
I've never painted a boat so I'm flying a little blind (as usual). If this plan is suspect, please let me know. Thanks, -Esteban?
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Re: DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
Oh, OK. I understand now. Thank you. R/ Bill
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hi Eric Using foam sandwich might be easier and cheaper in my area there is also this ply problem I ended building an boat out of regula 4mm birch plywood (not Marine Grade) on 3 rd year boat is still ok but next time I think I will be forced to go the other material It can be used in very similar fashion but bulkheads etc. can be made of plywood (marine grade). Usually the gase the fome core at least on one side before building it can bend somewhat, if more is needed cutouts on the inside of the bed are needed then glased/glued again after, this way you can also use cheaper polyester resin so materials should be similar.?
Regards Stefan, Iceland
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Hi Bernd: I am curious, how much would it affect weight and performance if I built my entire tiny tri out of 6mm plywood? 4mm is very difficult to find in my area, whereas 6mm is more readily available.
If you think it would be a bad idea, then I will spend the extra cash and have wood shipped(pretty expensive); but, if you think 6mm is OK, then I may go that route and save money buying local. Approximately how much would the main hull weigh if built from 6mm? Anyway, let me know if you think this would be a bad idea.
I appreciate your help!
-Eric
-- Kve?ja ¨C Regards
Stef¨¢n B. J¨®nsson 
S¨ªmi: +354-4781309 GSM: +354 8946541, skype:
Tr¨²na?ur /Disclosure
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Re: DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
Hi Bill
Anti vortex panels can only work on sharp chine (V, sharpie and trapezoidal) hulls. The DUO 1000 has multi chine hulls. Please read my article on A-vortex panels.
Bernd
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DUO1000 Centerboards vs Anti-Vortex Panels
Hello, In reading my study plans I see that you have designed in centerboards. I really like the idea of the anti-vortex panels that some of your boats have. Would those not work on the DUO1000? Regards, Bill
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Hi Eric
It is up to you but the differences are big for such a small boat instead of 27 kg the hull weights with 6mm plywood 33 kg and an ama instead of 15 kg 20 kg. so the total weight would be then instead of 57 kg 77 kg. I advice to get yourself 4 mm plywood. You need 4 mm plywood anyway for the rudder. The rudder is to small and the bending forces will be to much for 6mm plywood. My advice spend the extra cash.
Bernd
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Hi Bernd: I am curious, how much would it affect weight and performance if I built my entire tiny tri out of 6mm plywood? 4mm is very difficult to find in my area, whereas 6mm is more readily available.
If you think it would be a bad idea, then I will spend the extra cash and have wood shipped(pretty expensive); but, if you think 6mm is OK, then I may go that route and save money buying local. Approximately how much would the main hull weigh if built from 6mm? Anyway, let me know if you think this would be a bad idea.
I appreciate your help!
-Eric
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Bernd Kohler
Philip Malan
bryanandmarycox