Re: ECO 6

#10098

Hi Jim
I know my build is not an ECO 5.5 or 6, but I welcome you to come and visit us. We are building a Voyager 122. Northeast NC. Drop by on your way to the OBX.?

Cheers
Patrick

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10097

French people always jumping conclusions. I did not doubt the sea worthiness, altough you can read the comment like that if you want. What I was trying to ask more is that would you see the boat structurally cabable of doing atlantic crossing even though there is no room for enough food and so on.. Kinda trying to understand what kinda weather (waves, wind) it would be ok to handle if come worst case. Well built can i expect it to handle even largest storms? of course not aiming to be in one.

Choosing a design

#10096

I am interested in building one of your catamaran designs. Iused to own a Wharram Tiki 30 with a pod and I am looking for a design with more comfort which can be trailerable to launch site approx 1000kh away. There will be be a crew of 2 or 3 experienced people building and I would like to finish in 1 year. Can you recommend a design . Thank you Pst

Re: ECO 6

#10095

It's a stretch between the Carolina's and the Canadian prairies, but you're welcome to have a look at my ECO 6. There is an ECO 6 in Florida built some years ago with the original shaped bow. The builder is not a member of this Forum. He was on Facebook back when I started building and even set up a Facebook page for the ECO 6. ?He and I communicated a bit but he dropped off Facebook and deleted the page. I don't know how you could contact him.

ECO 6

wildhorsesracing

#10094

Howdy all,
New to the group, I am looking at the ECO 5.5 and 6 - anyone have one near the Carolinas???

I would like to see one in person, even if it's a project in progress.

Jim

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10093

I know. It is not my idea about what a sprit is. The term is used for both. It's not my invention.
Only a Wishbone is a Wishbone, and no sprit is a sprit.? We let it stay as is.

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10092

开云体育

There are obviously multiple incarnations of what is meant by sprit, The only one I was aware of is?

But you are the designer so I am happy to defer.

Show quoted text

On 4 Jan <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?
To get the terminology right.
An old and generally used terminology

?

Picture Birdwatcher from Bolger. This is a sail with a sprit

The aft mast sail of the Wharram boat also has a spirit. It is not a wishbone.

A wishbone is a double bone.

This is the wishbone boom on a? KD 860 mainsail.?

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10091

To get the terminology right.
An old and generally used terminology

?

Picture Birdwatcher from Bolger. This is a sail with a sprit

The aft mast sail of the Wharram boat also has a spirit. It is not a wishbone.

A wishbone is a double bone.

This is the wishbone boom on a? KD 860 mainsail.?

Birthwatcher.jpg

tiki_31_96-3.jpg

KD860wishbone.jpg

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10090

开云体育

Wharram calls that a wishbone and it is there on the aft sail because the sail is loose footed and projects behind the hulls. It is not part of a standard wingsail. Why wingsail? No idea, you could ask Henneka.

This is what I think of as a spirit sail:

Show quoted text

On 3 Jan 2024, at 19:57, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?Look at the picture. On the aft mast. There is the sprit

Re: Choice of plywood, Was: Re: Carbon tupes for free standing masts

#10089

That is a great?idea. I will be using that system for sure.?

Show quoted text

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024, 2:51?PM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

Thanks, Philip

In all my construction manuals, this is my first advice. It is boring to do but can be quick?
See this video I made some years ago.?

It is the logical way to save time and money.?

Bernd

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10088

First or second photo linked ??

Thank you?

Show quoted text

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024, 2:52?PM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

I would use the sloop rig

137084-78d2e18c17d73510cecdf25e5bb7a59a (1) (1).jpg

KD86sidev2.jpg

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10087

What a question. What do you want to imply?
Of course, my boats are structurally sound. What a question!

The seaworthiness is a factor of boat handling.

Bernd

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10086

Look at the picture. On the aft mast. There is the sprit

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10085

I would use the sloop rig

Re: Choice of plywood, Was: Re: Carbon tupes for free standing masts

#10084

Thanks, Philip

In all my construction manuals, this is my first advice. It is boring to do but can be quick?
See this video I made some years ago.?

It is the logical way to save time and money.?

Bernd

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10083

Let me ask Bernd please

What sail plan would ***YOU**

Put on a new build 860 open.

For low cost

Ease of use

Best performance?

Because im confused with all the differnt options.?

Thanks

Show quoted text

On Mon, Jan 1, 2024, 9:29?AM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

Hi

We have here a terminology misunderstanding. See picture. On the sail on the back, I see a spirit. Perhaps you call it different.
Ultimately, the main thing is using a sail that fits your needs. Today, fancy names are invented, like Fathead Sail. The idea of all these sails, gaffel, fathead, short Dutch gaff*, some sprit sails
is to have more sail area where the wind is stronger and this is up. I personally prefer to have the possibility to control the top of a sail or a moderate sail top area.?
Some have problems setting a sail with a sleeve because of increased frictional resistance. With a zipper it is less. Okay, we have very good examples of semi wing sails
in the shape of Gunter rigs by the way. See picture.?
Bernd

?*I will never understand why Wharram calls his gaff sail a wingsail)

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10082

I am personally still thinking of building eco 6, But i would have question for Bernd, Is eco6 as of its in your plans blue water ready ship structurally? I see almost all suggesting going KD860 for blue water vessel but I am thinking that using it myself and at best with my coming wife which is to be found still :D But looking to sail it from Finland to mediterranean during one summer season by the coasts and then keeping it in mediterranean later on in some smaller local harbours with reasonable fees and even having it sometimes stored on ground while going back to work for some months. Is this totally dump idea or would the vessel be capable of doing such a trip? I am not looking luxury I am looking for convenience, ease of use and sustainability.?

Pete

Re: Choice of plywood, Was: Re: Carbon tupes for free standing masts

#10081

Alain,

apply the epoxy before building. Use the squeegee method. You put the sheets on top of each other on saw horses and start with the top sheet by pouring some epoxy on, distribute? with squeegee, move sheet slightly so that the extra is moved to the sheet below. The top sheet is then placed to cure and you proceed with the next and so on, a real quick job.

Cheers

Philip Malan

On Friday, 22 December 2023 at 15:33:09 SAST, Bill Mansfield <billman3968@...> wrote:

Thxs for that, everything i researched says bunz' ply with gaboon superior?

I can get it from the dist. At a good price per sheet.?

Show quoted text

On Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 8:14?AM Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

You got here something wrong. Because I am sure I did not write this.
Here again is some general wood data.
?

See table—some wood data for plywood for boat building.

?

Matterial? ? ?Weight? ? Bending moment Elasticity modulus

?

Meranti? ? ? ?710 kg/m3 32 N/mm2? ? ? ? 7000 N/mm2

Mahogany? ? ? 650 kg/m3 80 N/mm2? ? ? ? 8300 N/mm2

Okoume? ? ? ? 430 kg/m3 84 N/mm2? ? ? ? 8600 N/mm2

?

The table clearly shows why I prefer Okoume, Gaboon, and Bruinzel plywood (made from Gaboon).

The general impregnation of Epoxy adds between 10 and 15 % of the strength for an impact of about 30 %.

Bernd

?
?

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10079

开云体育

Hi Bernd,

There is no sprit on the Wharram wing sail, just a short gaff which is not heavy made in laminated ply. Obviously carbon would be lighter. The gaff lives in a sleeve at the top of the sail and stays there when the sail is furled. I had a full length zip on the sleeve, but it was only useful for fitting/removing the sail at the beginning/end of the season. Having the zip actually made the sail stiffer to fold down.

PS I went for the wing sail because I didn’t fancy the standard sprit rig for the reasons you mention.

Richard

Show quoted text

On 31 Dec 2023, at 18:23, Bernd Kohler <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?Short. A bit complicated to set the sail on the Wharram. Setting first the sail and fastening the boom (sprit)?
Can be dangerous when you have to shorten sail in bad weather.
We overcome this by setting the Wishbone on a double rope on the Butterfly.??
It is known that it is hard to set a sleeved sail.?
We overcome this by using a sleeve that can be opened with a zipper.?

Cheers

Bernd

Re: Choosing between designs and rig options

#10078

These questions that you are asking Bill are very similar to what I went through when deciding on the rig for my Eco 6. I designed my own hybrid rig which had elements of the Wharram rig, and a square top main, that is I had a gaff rig mainsail with full length battens. The sail was attached to the mast with lashings, and once I had figured out how to properly do the lashings, the sail raised and lowered very easily. I guess it was basically the square top main but with a short gaff substituted for the square top. Of course this means you need to go for mast head jib rather than a fractional rig. I was inspired by a boat called Schooner Maggie B, which is a Nigel Irens designed gaff rig yacht. My rig worked very well and I would use it again if ever I had the opportunity. It was a fairly low tech rig which required no expensive hardware, and most of the fittings such as gooseneck I made myself from carbon fiber.

?

David