Re: test message

#10412

I received it on March 31st, but due to my busy schedule, I was only able to respond today, April 4th. Thank you Bernd

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10411

开云体育

Here is a link to my You Tube channel where I have documented all my trips using solar electric power.

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

Phil

Re: test message

#10410

Hi yall

Show quoted text

On Sat, Mar 29, 2025 at 3:12 PM, bryanandmarycox via groups.io
<bm.cox@...> wrote:

?Hi All , this is a test message at Bernd's request to see that the forum messages are coming through properly, regards

Bryan

Re: test message

#10409

I am in Caboolture. Accumulating energy to build KD122

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10408

Hi Phil,?

Nice hearing from you.?

Thanks for chipping in. You have a lot of experience with electric solar-powered boats.

I see you are busy lengthening the boat.

?

Here is a link to his YouTube channel, or in the middle of a journey. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eyJUnSCYms

?

Success with your new plan for this year.

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

?

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10407

开云体育

Hi to all,
I also have not posted in a while. I have started my hull extension on my Eco5.5 to go from 18' to 20'.
This was a bit controversial, but I decided to go ahead with it anyway. I have the extensions independently built over the winter. The next step is to sand the existing hull down to add them. The attachment point will start 6' back from the stern. I have also modified the bow to go back to a curved bow so that weeds in the canal do not accumulate around it.
As for batteries, I bought qty 16 of 202 Ahr LifePo4 batteries in the Spring of 2020 and paid a total of $3200 CDN. They are still good but are now at about 90%. It is not the cycle life you need to consider but the age degradation of Lifepo4, but even with age they still work.?
I just received a few weeks ago new 302 Ahr batteries and paid a total of $2100 CDN. So, 1/3 more power for a 1/3 less cost as batteries are getting cheaper all the time. There are more electric motors available in 2025 but are still double the cost?of a gas motor. This will change in the future with mass production.

I am documenting the modifications on my YouTube channel as I get ready for a new season. This year I will be touring the 1000 Islands and the Rideau canal for two weeks using only solar electric power.

Regards

Phil Boyer

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10406

Hi Matus

?

I do not reflect on the electric drive issue. You see for yourself how uncertain the future of the e-drive is.?

When the hulls are 8% longer without increasing the beam, about 100 hours will be needed.

Because of the bigger inside room, it is up to you how much more work you will invest because of the gained space.?

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

?

Re: test message

#10405

开云体育

Hi All,

Received here 2 days ago in Queensland, Australia but just opened today we are a bit slow down here.

Cheers,?

Chris?

Show quoted text

On 31 Mar 2025, at 8:27?pm, Bernd Kohler via groups.io <ikarus342000@...> wrote:

?
To all participants

?

Thanks to all participants for reporting on the work of the group.

?

The fun? thing was that we had a lull here. I think because of the winter sleep period in the North and too busy in the South.

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10404

开云体育

Matus,

?

Phil Boyer has many videos on YouTube about electrifying boats

?

Maybe help

?

Best regards, Eduardo.

?

De: [email protected] <[email protected]> Em nome de matushonko111 via groups.io
Enviada em: segunda-feira, 31 de mar?o de 2025 09:59
Para: [email protected]
Assunto: Re: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

?

Greetings,

We want to thank all of you for replying to our questions. We are still a bit lost in the 'what do we want and how do we want it' phase, and greatly appreciate any and all information.?

?

As for the (currently strictly hypothetical) solar electric part, yes batteries have many, many problems- I personally remain deeply critical of our civilisation's claimed goal of being powered by lithium ion. We did not intend to use those: they are too expensive, short-lived, dangerous and a few zeroes off in terms of energy density.?

However, there are 5+ alternative ways to store power in a 'rechargeable' way, all better in most ways vs the conventional battery tech, in various stages of 'work in progress'. Organic fuel cells, metal air batteries, different ways to store hydrogen... For instance, methanol (fuel with half the energy density of gasoline) can be made with electricity, air and water- with current research working out how to make the electrodes durable enough for common use. When they succeed, a 'solar electric' would just be a power boat able to slowly make its own fuel.

?

? ? ? ?I apologise for the text wall, just little frustrated none of this is part of the public debate (or funding) with batteries being the only, and worst, option. It could make for an interesting separate thread perhaps. Considering the above, we wanted to make the boat in such a way that it could be a test bed for some of those emerging technologies when it comes to it, therefore the powerboat question.

?

It is great to know road transport of the semi-finished thing is possible. How much construction time/complexity would the extra 8% add? Also, I haven't been able to find the materials list for the KD860. Is it available on the website please, or part of the study plans?

?

Thank you,?

With regards, Matus Honko

Re: Survey

#10403

开云体育

Hello, The group was also helpful for me. I'm building a DUO 480. The lower section is finished. I'm waiting for the warm weather to apply several coats of graphite resin to the hulls and begin the upper sections. The boat is easy to build and intelligently designed. Bryan's photos (and advice) and Mikael's slideshow were very helpful. Well done, Bernd. Best regards, Fran?ois.

Le 30/03/2025 à 13:51, Bernd Kohler via groups.io a écrit?:

Hi All

?

It is very quiet in the group. Is someone still building something, or are all activities on hold?

When I see what? Nothing, is it any good to continue the group?

By the way, this group was founded by a client who is no longer a member.

I was then taking over with some doubts.

This group was meant to help each other build boats. I suggested that followers here also report on their experiences with their boats.?

Again, besides 3 in a year, I have it amiss.

?

Ultimately, it would be helpful if builders and owners would participate.

?

I am waiting

?

Bernd

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

-- 
Fran?ois Moinet
05 65 37 77 77
06 86 72 99 12

Sans virus.

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10402

Greetings,

We want to thank all of you for replying to our questions. We are still a bit lost in the 'what do we want and how do we want it' phase, and greatly appreciate any and all information.?

?

As for the (currently strictly hypothetical) solar electric part, yes batteries have many, many problems- I personally remain deeply critical of our civilisation's claimed goal of being powered by lithium ion. We did not intend to use those: they are too expensive, short-lived, dangerous and a few zeroes off in terms of energy density.?

However, there are 5+ alternative ways to store power in a 'rechargeable' way, all better in most ways vs the conventional battery tech, in various stages of 'work in progress'. Organic fuel cells, metal air batteries, different ways to store hydrogen... For instance, methanol (fuel with half the energy density of gasoline) can be made with electricity, air and water- with current research working out how to make the electrodes durable enough for common use. When they succeed, a 'solar electric' would just be a power boat able to slowly make its own fuel.

?

? ? ? ?I apologise for the text wall, just little frustrated none of this is part of the public debate (or funding) with batteries being the only, and worst, option. It could make for an interesting separate thread perhaps. Considering the above, we wanted to make the boat in such a way that it could be a test bed for some of those emerging technologies when it comes to it, therefore the powerboat question.

?

It is great to know road transport of the semi-finished thing is possible. How much construction time/complexity would the extra 8% add? Also, I haven't been able to find the materials list for the KD860. Is it available on the website please, or part of the study plans?

?

Thank you,?

With regards, Matus Honko

Re: test message

#10401

To all participants

?

Thanks to all participants for reporting on the work of the group.

?

The fun? thing was that we had a lull here. I think because of the winter sleep period in the North and too busy in the South.

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

Re: test message

#10400

Received the message (and replies) too.

?

Best wishes from Germany,

Stefan

?

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10399

Hi

?

The hulls are semi-displacement hulls, which are, by design, fast. The KD 860 is very fast for its size. ?But when you can reach the speed under sail, you can reach this speed under engine. I understand that you do not have a lot of experience sailing a fast multihull. Here is a small example. Our Pelican was very fast, but when we were preparing meals, we reduced the speed to around 11 knots for an easier (safer) ?movement of the boat. For a life on board, lengthen the hulls by 8 %. Scandlings will stay the same. The boat would then be 9,18 m long. Gives a bit more space for living on board. There were builders who had the same problem. ?To build the hulls, mast, beam, and aftbeam. Transported the parts near the water and assembled them. Good, you can close the boat then in about 250 hours. But the boat will not be finished. All the time-consuming interior work has to be done. Toilet and shower room, seat bench, kitchen units, etc. There are a lot of pictures, just from building the KD 860. Look them over to get ideas. For a diesel engine, look at the Icarus built in Tasmania. He placed the engine just after the entrance bulkhead to have less weight at the transom for a good boat trim. ?
David answered some of your questions, too.?

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

Re: Survey

#10398

Hi Patrick

?

Nice to hear from you.

Nice to hear about your progress. Yes, it is a big boat. When you start painting and see the distance to have to go, it can be frustrating.

Building your own toilets. That is typical of you, success.?

I remember the difference it had made as we had painted the saloon in our Pelican.?

I am curious to see the pictures.

Finishing the inside can be time-consuming on such a big boat. Use things you can buy, such as drawers.?

?

Cheers

?

Bernd

?

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10397

Hello David

?

Thank you for falling in.
The hull shapes I draw are semi-displacement, with a high slenderness and good flat exit angles for low parasitic resistance. As you mentioned, it is a question of horsepower.?
?But how far will you go?
Electric propulsion is still too expensive in my view. Besides that, it is more complicated than prone to failure. An outboard engine, you mount and are ready to go. ?
To get a reasonable range, the batteries need to be very big. If somebody makes the argument that they want to do something for the environment, forget it. General pleasure boats are used to less as to have any positive effect on the environment when electric drive systems are used. I do not talk about the cost difference. Using solar panels plus a small wind generator for the other application on board is, of course, a good solution.?

?

You are content with your new boat.

?

Regards? Bernd

Re: Survey

#10396

Hi Jack

?

I get your point. Life is sometimes in the way of working on the boat :-))

?

I am curious how the boat will look when painted

?

Regards

?

Bernd

Re: A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

#10395

开云体育

Hi,

?

I’m the builder of the ECO 85 powercat, which is still under construction.

I’m building my own electric outboards which are 3 Kw 48 Vdc each.

Battery will be a 48 Vdc Lithium 300 Ah.

There are 6 solar panels on a water cooled roof which will give a max power of about 2200 watt peak.

?

If you have more questions, please ask.

?

Regards,

?

Jack

?

Show quoted text

Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens matushonko111 via groups.io
Verzonden: Sunday, March 30, 2025 3:55 PM
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] A newcomer's questions: More motoring-optimised liveaboard cruiser?; Assembly by water?

?

Greetings,

we are a young couple considering building a boat as our home after we finish our studies. We have found that Bernd's designs, particularly the KD860, seem to tick many of our boxes in terms of comfort, layout and cost.?

?

There are two questions that arose, which we did not find answered on this forum yet:

?

A) although we are likely to stick to the cheapest propulsion option (assumed diesel outboard) at first, the long-term ideal (we assume) would be a solar-electric drive, using better bulk energy storage than batteries (hydrogen, formic acid, methanol fuel cells... we are chemists, and so open to experimentation here).

? ? ? The question then is: since based on the 'Hull speed / motoring kd 860' thread that boat doesnt do well under power, how hard of a tweak would it be to make the KD860 a better medium-speed (<15kn) motor boat? Or are there any other designs with comparable accomodations, sea worthiness and cost that would be better suited to this role? (I have found the Eco85 powercat threads, no expected specs/material costs/layouts though, and we like the compartmentalisation/layout of the KD860).

?

B) we unfortunately live in the smack middle of Europe- even a trip to the Danube (our only navigable river) is 100+km. It was mentioned in the thread 'weight of hull KD860 - moving' that transporting the hulls and center separately is possible, though not ideal- 100h asssembly, 250h finishing.

? ? ? What is meant by 'finishing' please? Is the boat liveable by that point? How much complication is added by such an approach, and what are the requirements on the place of final assembly in terms of space, equipment etc?

(Ps. I know the default answer is that companies exist that can transport finished cats, but we are on a tight budget, and live in eastern europe where a French business may ask premium. Apart from that, we would like to have a fallback plan.)

Re: Survey

#10394

开云体育

Hi Bernd,

?

I’m still working om my electric version of the ECO 75, but there are to many things which I have to do which has nothing to do with the building of this boat.

The only things I’m doing is prepare the boat for the final painting.

As soon there is paint on the boat I’ll send some pictures.

?

Regards,

?

Jack

?

Show quoted text

Van: [email protected] <[email protected]> Namens Bernd Kohler via groups.io
Verzonden: Sunday, March 30, 2025 1:51 PM
Aan: [email protected]
Onderwerp: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] Survey

?

Hi All

?

It is very quiet in the group. Is someone still building something, or are all activities on hold?

When I see what? Nothing, is it any good to continue the group?

By the way, this group was founded by a client who is no longer a member.

I was then taking over with some doubts.

This group was meant to help each other build boats. I suggested that followers here also report on their experiences with their boats.?

Again, besides 3 in a year, I have it amiss.

?

Ultimately, it would be helpful if builders and owners would participate.

?

I am waiting

?

Bernd

?

Re: Survey

#10393

开云体育

Hi Bernd,

?

I am new to the group, my interest in this group was born when I by coincidence saw pictures of some of your designs.

What I found when I investigated further, was all the different designs and after looking at the different designs I fell for the trailer able designs.

?

I have sailed all my life, have now a 38 feet production monohull, but have always been drawn to multihulls.

(After sailing a few days with a Hobie Cat many years ago.)

?

I live in Norway, where we have cold winters, so I would need a warmed up garage to be able to build a boat during winter time.

We have now solved that issue, our new house have all the place and space I will need to build a boat.

?

Last time I checked I was not a approved member in this group, so I have not posted so far.

?

My plan with the build is to make a series of You Tube videos on a channel I will start this summer.

The channel is based on car Racing activities and drifting, since I am involved in that motorsport through my job as a Lubricants specialist.

The channel will also show other content based on my interest in cars and boats.

?

When it comes to which of your designs I would like to build, I am for now not sure, but I love the rig of the ECO 520!

The boat might be a little small for my needs, so maybe the ECO 550 would be the choice, could the rig of the ECO 520 be implemented on the ECO 550?

?

Well this will be my introduction to the group.

I really hope the group will continue, as discussing options and problem solving with other builders would be helpful!

?

I wish you all a good spring day and happy days!!

?

Vennlig hilsen / Best regards

?

Yngvar Holm

?

Daglig leder / Managing director

?

Lubeconsult AS

?

N-Norway

?

Tel: +47?955 27?044

Mail: yngvar@...

?

Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne av Bernd Kohler via groups.io
Sendt: s?ndag 30. mars 2025 13:51
Til: [email protected]
Emne: [K-Designs-Multihull-Sailboats] Survey

?

Hi All

?

It is very quiet in the group. Is someone still building something, or are all activities on hold?

When I see what? Nothing, is it any good to continue the group?

By the way, this group was founded by a client who is no longer a member.

I was then taking over with some doubts.

This group was meant to help each other build boats. I suggested that followers here also report on their experiences with their boats.?

Again, besides 3 in a year, I have it amiss.

?

Ultimately, it would be helpful if builders and owners would participate.

?

I am waiting

?

Bernd

?