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Ok, here is my "stats." I'm a 2 year guitarist, and last year I descided to take the plunge and attempt to make my High School's Jazz Band (being this my senior year I thought "what the heck"). Anyway, I made it in, for two reasons (I think), first I told the Director how interested I was in Jazz and also because I was the only one that tried out :). Anyway, now that I'm in I'm a little fustrated. I'm going through ups and downs all over the place. One song we'll practice and I will do pretty good on, while the next song we do I'll probably hack to pieces. It's getting a little fustrating, as I get flak from the conductor because everyone else thinks the song is easy, while I think the chords and changes are pretty hard. Anyway, does anyone have any advice for a Jazz guitar newbie? Thanks for anyhelp!

LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN. Listen to every jazz you can get. If you're in the big band check out Count Basie especially. Pay real close attention to Freddie Green on guitar. He "chuncks" chords out. Play a chord on each beat not accenting any particular beats. Try to get chords that are mostly on the bottom five strings, but emphasize the middle 2 or 3. Just listen to what Freddie Green does. I can't stress how much it will help. Try to emulate his sound. He used an unamplified arch top and it's hard to get that sound with an electric guitar. Try to get as natural tone as possible. Really listen carefully to what Freddie does. If you are playing more contemporary music, check out Wes Montgomery's small group stuff, Grant Green, and piano players. Listen to their chords especially since that is what you'll be doing mostly. Try to get your piano player to trade comping over soloist, i.e. piano under sax, guitar under trumpet. And that's another key. You play UNDER the soloist. It's easy to let your ego get in the way, but listen to what the masters did before you. But make sure you listen listen listen. You get the picture. Sam

heres my formula to jazz guitar in high school for the wes montgomery impaired. (it worked for me) #1...When in doubt turn your guitar down and look like your playing (stare intently at the music) most band directors dont care if someone sucks as long as there not noticeable. #2...If theres a piano player your stoked (especially on big band stuff)..Hide behind him, he probably knows what hes doing. Also make friends with him (that way he can tell you where you are in the chart) #3...find old records with freddy green, copy his style (or at least his rthythm patterns) Basically be as straight forward as possible, you wont sound wonderful but you wont trip over anyone either. #4...Screw Extensions...flat 5 raised 2 sus4 augmented chords are extremely improtant to the song, but if you suck, you suck. Play the basic chord, be wary of the third though (people will notice and C major played on a C minor chord) If your completely ready to cry a power chord is at least the root and fifth. #5....most importantly PRACTICE your ass off, this shit aint easy, you can only fake it for so long...and if you have to volunteer to solo, do it over a blues progression...dont do it over Giant Steps.

Of course I didn't want to upset anyone with the term "fairly competent" to describe Oliver Gannon's playing. Actually the only playing I've hear him do was on the Jazz Guitarist Program. I'll take your word for it that he is very competent.

What you are going through is very common. Band directors don't usually play guitar, and they have no idea that the stuff you are having to decipher on those charts is as difficult as it is. I used to feel so low sometimes when I'd get those dirty looks from the conductor, or he would stop the whole band and try and teach me a part. Can you take the charts home with you? If so, start by learning each tune very slowly all the way through. Make sure you understand each chord, rhythm, etc. You might want to start by learning two or four bar sections, and putting them together. Although I don't like using a metronome most of the time this is a situation that using the metronome can be very helpful. Set the tempo to a snail's pace, like 70 bpm, and only increase the speed when you can nail every change. Whatever you do don't set the 'nome to a faster speed and try and "catch up." You'll just keep ingraining the frustration. If you don't already have one get a chord book that is designed for big band playing. The Mel Bay Rhythm Guitar Chord System is thorough and inexpensive. Check it out at http://www.melbay.com/fp199/93214.html. Besides the chords you're having to learn for the charts you want to make a seperate study of each chord type and its inversions. The Mel Bay book has drills designed to teach you each chord. Again, take it slow and don't look for shortcuts. Make sure, for example, that you know where the root of each chord is in the fingering, not just the fret number. Don't let the director or anyone else in there vibe you. These kids have all been reading music in bands like this for years, and with the exception of the pianist they are only having to read single notes. Give any of them a guitar for two years and they'd be doing no better than you. Last, keep in mind that big band playing is a tiny subset of "jazz guitar." It's great training, but most of the time on gigs you'll be playing with smaller groups, and the needs are somewhat different. Good luck, -- Clay Moore -- jazz guitarist web developer clay@... claymoore@... http://www.claymoore.com/ http://www.music2u.com To find out where I'm performing each week, sign up on my mailing list. Go to http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber?Act=subscribe_list&list_id=claymoore

Her's what I sent to "newbie" yesterday, and now I'm putting it out for the list after reading some of the other comments. They are good comments, and maybe this response with a slightly different emphasis is of interest to others. Lan I remember getting a new guitar and really screwing up my first solo with my HS group. Well, are chords more of a problem than solos? Get the charts, figure out simple chord formations that you can move through easily. You don't need big bar chords if you have a base player. Get your guitar teacher to recommend a good chord theory and formation book and practice. If the rhythm hits are tough, get someone to work with you. See if you can sing the rhythm or tap it out with your hands. If all else fails, hit the key accents. Ask your band director for help. Above, all don't give up. I've heard national recording artists say their early stuff was really bad. For solos, get some Aebersold CDs to play along with., record yourself, and listen. This isn't all, but it should help.

In a message dated 9/8/99 8:34:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alisdair@... writes: For those of you with "The Real Book" did you know that it contains five of the tracks from Pat Metheny's Bright Size Life Album: Track1 Page 64 Bright Size Life Track3 Page 143 Exercise #6 = Unity Village Track4 Page 142 Exercise #3 = Missouri Uncompromised Track5 Page 481 Midwestern Nights Dream Track6 Page 439 Unquity Road Alisdair MacRae Birch Jazz Guitar Email: alisdair@... Web: http://www.alisdair.com Join The Jazz Discussion List: http://www.egroups.com/group/jazzguitar/ OK....here goes...Trivia Question...What is the name of the tune on page 480 by Pat Metheny??? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online Start with up to 150 Points for joining! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805 eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/jazzguitar http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <jazzguitar-return-14-Awseyler=aol.com@...> Received: from rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:34:41 -0400 Received: from md.egroups.com (md.egroups.com [207.138.41.139]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:34:30 -0400 Received: from [10.1.2.1] by md.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 1999 01:33:51 -0000 Mailing-List: contact jazzguitar-owner@... X-Mailing-List: jazzguitar@... X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/jazzguitar/ Reply-To: jazzguitar@... Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-jazzguitar@... Received: (qmail 7422 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 00:33:46 -0000 Received: from mu.egroups.com (207.138.41.151) by qh.egroups.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 00:33:46 -0000 Received: from [10.1.2.16] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 09 Sep 1999 01:33:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:33:39 -0700 From: alisdair@... To: jazzguitar@... Message-ID: <7r6v93$dpak@...> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.76 X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster Subject: [jazzguitar] Pat Metheny Bright Size Life Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>

I'm sure a lot of people know this about those songs in the real book. It is interesting to note how they are called exercises in the real book & you can tell how he used different concepts dealing with scales, arpeggios to get his point across and yet keep it melodic such as Missouri Uncompromised. The other amazing thing was how GREAT he played at such a young age. To me Pat Metheny is my Favorite Living Jazz Guitarist. A true Improviser & Master of the instrument. I've been following Pat since He started out with Gary Burton "Dream So Real." Hearing Him now He has grown so much, and keeps reaching for Newer Heights. He is such an Inspiration. His vocabulary is on such a high level. He is one of the true Greats! He set a precedent for others to follow. And keeps treading New Ground. If you haven't heard it yet (which I'm sure you have) His Playing on "Beyond Missouri Sky" With Charlie Haden Is some of the most perfect guitar playing I've ever heard. Very reminiscent of how Wes would always seem to play the most perfect solo ("How Insensitive, Lucky So and So, Misty). Well, Pat is doing it Today. "Unity Village" and "Bright Size Life" True Standards from his Bright Size Life CD. This guitar e-mail group is a really beautiful thing, keep spreading the Spirit. Peace, Teddy

I can't adequately express how delighted I am to read the comments of the young guitarists (I'm assuming they're young, compared to me at 62), coming to the aid of this aspiring youngster. I've always believed jazz musicians were some of the most giving and caring people. I've been playing guitar for forty years and I learned from horn players, keyboard players, bass players, and other fine guitarists. These are a few things I've learned in all those years. 1. Guitar is one of the easiest inastruments to play a little, and one of the hardest to play a lot. 2. Copying from other guitarists is a good learning tool, but developing your own unique style is important. Everyone recognizes Montgomery, Pass, Benson, Stern, etc when they hear them. 3. Try to sidestep your ego long enough to help make the musicians around you sound their best. This was a trademark of older guitarists like Jim Hall and Kenny Burrell. Listen to the unselfish way Russell Malone plays behind Diana Krall. 4. Guitar is an extremely versatile instrument. Don't be afraid to experiment with different strings, different pick sizes and weights, finger style, different amps and settings until you find your sound. I know fine guitarists who have been playing for twnty years or more and the're still searching for that sound. The way different enviornments affect sound makes the search that much more difficult Flip

For those of you with "The Real Book" did you know that it contains five of the tracks from Pat Metheny's Bright Size Life Album: Track1 Page 64 Bright Size Life Track3 Page 143 Exercise #6 = Unity Village Track4 Page 142 Exercise #3 = Missouri Uncompromised Track5 Page 481 Midwestern Nights Dream Track6 Page 439 Unquity Road Alisdair MacRae Birch Jazz Guitar Email: alisdair@... Web: http://www.alisdair.com Join The Jazz Discussion List: http://www.egroups.com/group/jazzguitar/

I'd like to start putting together an FAQ for this list and think it would be worth discussing Method Books, people have found useful in their studies and why. If you can give the title and author and as much details as possible it would make it helpful for others to find the books. My Recommendations to start with are: Chordal Accompaniment: Barry Galbraith - Guitar Comping. Published now by Jamey Aebersold. A Play-a-long CD and Book. All Guitar Chords are transcribed. Excellent. Robert Brown - Chord Connections. Published by Alfred Publishing Co. A great book for showing the connections between Chords, lots are good diagrams. Theory: Mark Levine - The Jazz Theory Book. Published by Sher Music Co. The book every Jazz musician should own and refer too. Single Line: Bert Ligon - Comprehensive Technique For Jazz Musicians. Published by Houston Publishing. A lifetimes work, which should set you on the right path. Overall: Howard Roberts and Garry Hagberg - Guitar Compendium Vols. 1,2,3. Published by Advance Music. Another lifetimes worth of study material. But written in such a way to solve problems and in manageable chunks. Alisdair MacRae Birch Jazz Guitar Email: alisdair@... Web: http://www.alisdair.com Join The Jazz Discussion List: http://www.egroups.com/group/jazzguitar/

I'm in a similar situation, just starting to play with a Community College jazz band - I've found that the following can help: 1) Play only one chord per measure. 2) Simplify - play nothing more complicated than a 7 chord or triad when the going gets tough (keep the chord quality though - major, minor, augmented, diminished). 3) Learn Freddie Greene style rhythm playing - get "Swing and Big Band Guitar" by Charlton Johnson from Hal Leonard Publishers ISBN - 0-7935-7381-5. Hope this helps. eGroups Digest wrote:

Listen - I teach jazz band in a Community College. I tell guitarists to catagorize the tunes. If it's "boom chuck" then it's downbeats all the way. It all depends on the style (genre) that is being expressed. Most players do not have a broad palette to draw from. I suggest that guitarists ultimately concentrate their efforts on the essential chord tones (="target" tones, "partials", etc -whatever name you put on it). These, of course, would be the 3rd and the 7th -the intervals which DEFINE the type of chord one is playing (or implying). The second aspect is the rhythmic emphasis one places on such chords (or chord partials). Together, these two elements say far more than anything else in terms of an appropriate rhythm section! On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:42:25 -0700 Rob Clark <robertclark@...> writes: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sincerely, Don Price http://www.alljazzguitar.com http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/alljazzguitar http://www.egroups.com/list/alljazzguitar ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Does anyone have any recent information on Jazz guitarist Monnette Sudler ? She was originally from Philedelphia, and recorded an album on Steeplechase in 1993 called Brighter Days For You. Is she still playing ? Where is she based ? Alisdair MacRae Birch Jazz Guitar Email: alisdair@... Web: http://www.alisdair.com Join The Jazz Guitar Discussion List: http://www.egroups.com/group/jazzguitar/

I would add: Big Band Rhythm Guitar Jim Ferguson - All Blues for Jazz Guitar. A basic introduction to rhythm guitar with good exercises for beginners. Charlton Johnson - Big Band and Rhythm Guitar - Comprehensive and well written. alisdair@... wrote:

I think she was playing early in the year at Zanzabar Blue. There must be a Philly Jazz web page out there. Try Jimmy Bruno, he might know. Bill

By the way, if anyone wants to contact Jimmy Bruno, his Web site is www.jimmybruno.com and e-mail is jimmy@.... He's a very nice guy who is very good about replying to e-mail. Rick

According to Jimmy Bruno Monnette was off the scene for several years because of some serious legal problems. She was DWI and killed someone in an auto accident, was convicted and sent to prison. He says she is back out and playing in the Philly area, and sounds great. -- Clay Moore -- jazz guitarist web developer clay@... claymoore@... http://www.claymoore.com/ http://www.music2u.com To find out where I'm performing each week, sign up on my mailing list. Go to http://www.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber?Act=subscribe_list&list_id=claymoore

Monette Sudler is still active in and around Philadelphia. She played the Sunday Jazz Brunch at Zanzabar on Broad Street. She still plays great guitar. Ed __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Hey, not to be a dick or anything, but a lot of guitarists need to get their noses out of books. There is a book for every single thing out there. You should really try to figure things out on your own because you will understand them a lot better. You should transcribe to learn improvisation because all of the books are written by people who transcribed a lot and made generalizations from the solos. I do recomend the Jazz Theory book. Also check out "The Advancing Guitarist" by Mick Goodrick, and "Approaching the Guitar" by Gene Burtoncini. If you have those you should be all set with the material. Also, if necessary get a Real book. Other than that, spend your money on CDs. That is the key. Guitarists have millions of books and still sound bad because they dont listen to the masters. So stop buying all these books and check out CDs before you go any further. Now, I'm not saying books are bad, but the real stuff is in the recordings Sam