Gibson headstock weakness

Will #102626 Had yet another Les Paul in with a broken headstock this week, this time an Epiphone but the problem seems to be with all makes. I note that some Epis now have a spliced on headstock and that some Gibsons have the "Volute" which strengthens the area behind the nut However, it does seem to be a flawed design - the problem doesn`t exist with Fender necks. Will
jvegatrio All Messages By This Member #102628 Hi Will, Gibson headstocks have a long history of breakage, but they sure look cool... Cheers, JV Juan Vega toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: Will <will@...> To: jazz_guitar <jazz_guitar@...> Sent: Sat, Dec 18, 2010 9:12 am Subject: [jazz_guitar] Gibson headstock weakness Had yet another Les Paul in with a broken headstock this week, this time an Epiphone but the problem seems to be with all makes. I note that some Epis now have a spliced on headstock and that some Gibsons have the "Volute" which strengthens the area behind the nut However, it does seem to be a flawed design - the problem doesn`t exist with Fender necks. Will [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jeff Shirkey #102631 On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:12 AM, Will wrote: Had yet another Les Paul in with a broken headstock this week, They don't just fall off, of course, so what happens to these guitars that causes the headstock to break? I know a guy who had his Explorer headstock break, but he banged it into something fairly hard. How hard do you have to hit it to do this kind of damage? Just curious. Thanks, Jeff
jvegatrio All Messages By This Member #102635 Hi Jeff, My guess is that the grain of the wood runs in a way that can't adequately accommodate the tension generated by the strings. These days, I've noticed some guitars have headstocks that are "grafted" on, presumably for strength; not sure if Gibson does this though... Cheers, JV Juan Vega toggle quoted message Show quoted text In a message dated 12/18/2010 10:45:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jcshirke@... writes: what happens to these guitars that causes the headstock to break?
Jeff Shirkey #102636 Hi Juan, Maybe--although that would seem to be something they could correct easily. Most of my Gibsons are "Historics", which means they try to replicate the old guitars as closely as possible in terms of their design, so if they made 'em this way back in the day, the Historic models will follow suit. But I've still never heard of a headstock just breaking without taking a knock on something. I'll be curious to see what Will says. Thanks, Jeff
Brian Kelly All Messages By This Member #102637 Gibson headstocks are pretty easy to break. I just tapped one one night walking through a doorway. I hit the back of the headstock in the same direction that the string would be pulling the headstock and that tap (probably more than a tap but not a whole lot more) was enough to break the headstock at the base in front of the nut. Gibson was putting a heel at that point for awhile but I don’t se one on my newer Gibson 137. Brian From: Jeff Shirkey Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:49 PM To: jazz_guitar@... Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Gibson headstock weakness Hi Juan, Maybe--although that would seem to be something they could correct easily. Most of my Gibsons are "Historics", which means they try to replicate the old guitars as closely as possible in terms of their design, so if they made 'em this way back in the day, the Historic models will follow suit. But I've still never heard of a headstock just breaking without taking a knock on something. I'll be curious to see what Will says. Thanks, Jeff
Chasjazzbo All Messages By This Member #102640 Brian, I had the exact same thing happen to my first ES-335. I tapped the head while walking through a doorway. The breakage was similar as well. I wrote it off as a total loss, bought a new one and treated it with "kid gloves". That was forty years ago and the second 335 is still in great shape. Take care, all. -Chas toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In jazz_guitar@..., "Brian Kelly" <bkelly@...> wrote: Gibson headstocks are pretty easy to break. I just tapped one one night walking through a doorway. I hit the back of the headstock in the same direction that the string would be pulling the headstock and that tap (probably more than a tap but not a whole lot more) was enough to break the headstock at the base in front of the nut. Gibson was putting a heel at that point for awhile but I don?€?t se one on my newer Gibson 137. Brian From: Jeff Shirkey Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 1:49 PM To: jazz_guitar@... Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Gibson headstock weakness Hi Juan, Maybe--although that would seem to be something they could correct easily. Most of my Gibsons are "Historics", which means they try to replicate the old guitars as closely as possible in terms of their design, so if they made 'em this way back in the day, the Historic models will follow suit. But I've still never heard of a headstock just breaking without taking a knock on something. I'll be curious to see what Will says. Thanks, Jeff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Will #102643 Generally it seems to be a slight knock - either falling off a stand or bumping into the side of a doorway, classical guitars have the same problem. Splicing the headstock on does get rid of the weakness. I agree - they do look cool. Will
Alan Levin All Messages By This Member #102650 A traditional way to make a headstock is to take a squared-up plank of wood, saw the headstock off of it at an 5 or 6 degree from straight angle, reverse the cut piece of wood and glue it back on, doubling the angle. Now it tilts back in the usual relation of a headstock to the neck. You then route out the channel for the truss rod. This is not how it's normally done now--however those necks were considered strong enough for steel strings. I'm more familiar with Gibson necks that break at the body. I've got an SG like this--it's named "Trainwreck" but it sounds like a '60s vintage SG, cause it is a '60s vintage SG. I even got it to play very nicely. Al
Tim Fox #102651 Fenders have a gentler break at the nut, no? Hence the butterfly string guide to hold down the 1st and 2nd strings. I think the original idea was that they could cut more necks from a given piece of wood. Leo Fender, the Henry Ford of guitar manufacture. t toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Dec 18, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Will wrote: Had yet another Les Paul in with a broken headstock this week, this time an Epiphone but the problem seems to be with all makes. I note that some Epis now have a spliced on headstock and that some Gibsons have the "Volute" which strengthens the area behind the nut However, it does seem to be a flawed design - the problem doesn`t exist with Fender necks. Will
Will #102694 I have actually never seen a broken Fender neck but I am sure you are right. The problem with repairs is that most folk won`t pay the labour charges for a proper job with spliced in re-enforcements and a good re-finish. Hence there are dozens of poorly repaired necks around. Will toggle quoted message Show quoted text Fenders have a gentler break at the nut, no? Hence the butterfly string guide to hold down the 1st and 2nd strings. I think the original idea was that they could cut more necks from a given piece of wood. Leo Fender, the Henry Ford of guitar manufacture. t
Bob Hansmann All Messages By This Member #102696 Hi Will, The problem with repairs is that most folk won`t pay the labour charges for a proper job with spliced in re-enforcements and a good re-finish. Hence there are dozens of poorly repaired necks around. That, and the fact that not too many "repairmen" really have a clue how to do their job right. I have and will continue to refuse to repair a headstock unless the customer is willing to pay my price, and so many go elsewhere. The plain and simple fact is that there is no such thing as a "cheap" headstock repair. If I repair a headstock, I have to guarantee the work. If I compromise on the price and quality, that guitar has almost a 100% chance of coming back at me, and so I won't do it. Bobby
Will #102727 Bob, You are dead right. Splicing in re-enforcements, carefully carving away the excess to follow the neck contour and then doing a re-finish takes hours of labour. I have just refused an Epiphone job because they expected the whole job for ?30! ($60) Will toggle quoted message Show quoted text Hi Will, The problem with repairs is that most folk won`t pay the labour charges for a proper job with spliced in re-enforcements and a good re-finish. Hence there are dozens of poorly repaired necks around.

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Gibson headstock weakness