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--- In jazz_guitar@..., Brad Rabuchin <bradrabuchin@...> wrote:

Well, several things to talk about. One thing about Carlton: I heard him
many years ago play in a quartet with Tommy Tedesco. They played mostly
standards( I remember Green Dolphin st and All Blues were 2 of them) and he
sounded real good if maybe slightly uncomfortable in that context. I don't
know that he could do that now though.
But I really wanted to talk about Scofield. I've always found him to be
rather humble about his playing. He'd be the first to admit that he's still
trying to become a better player. That said, he's adapted his technique
using things such as extensive use of hammer-ons and pull-offs, wide
interval leaps and 2 note intervals played together to forge one of the most
recognizable and imitated styles in jazz guitar. His playing has a sort of
awkward, jerky feel in comparison to someone like Metheny but I think that
is deliberate. To find an individual voice and be able to successfully apply
it in any relevant musical context can be an elusive goal but I think
Scofield has achieved that. When I first heard him I thought he wasn't a
very good player but then that's what I thought the first time I heard
Miles.

Brad R

Metheny had some really good things to say about Sco, probably a year before their collaborative effort came out. I like the dissonant, jerky feel to Sco's playing, as well, particularly since it doesn't seem to take away from his playing of the changes. It seems like people get caught up in his tone (which I personally like) and miss out on how uniquely beautiful and appropriate his lines really are.

When I met him in person, he was pretty humble and down to earth. I know him to be someone who purposely avoids stock licks, and the writer seems to be asking him to explain his playing in terms of stock licks. I like that he somewhat apologizes for seeming rude, but he then gives information that sums up the reality of playing jazz.

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "keithfre" <keith.freeman@...> wrote:

Larry Carlton, who is every bit Scofield's equal on the instrument

But I've never heard him play anything I'd call jazz ;-}

-Keith

You haven't heard the "Last Nite" disc, then. It was around this time that Pat Metheny did some seminars at Berklee (I was attending at the time) and said that Larry was his favorite player at the time. My teacher Darcy Hepner said that same thing when I presented my transcription of Larry's solo on "So What" which included a fair amount of diminished/dominant scale work and some beautiful phrasing.

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so it's nice to see even someone at that level is
always trying to improve...

No one would argue that Sco isn't on the far side of the curve and as
you say the pursuit never ends for any of us. I didn't see the part
of my post where I said Sco trounced Carlton in that live gig. I may
have thought it and didn't type it. That happens a lot these days.
Maybe that's why I sounded to good to ME Friday night. {;^)>
Ron
Living and playing outside the box.



On Nov 28, 2010, at 1:36 PM, JVegaTrio@... wrote:

Well, several things to talk about. One thing about Carlton: I heard him
many years ago play in a quartet with Tommy Tedesco. They played mostly
standards( I remember Green Dolphin st and All Blues were 2 of them) and he
sounded real good if maybe slightly uncomfortable in that context. I don't
know that he could do that now though.
But I really wanted to talk about Scofield. I've always found him to be
rather humble about his playing. He'd be the first to admit that he's still
trying to become a better player. That said, he's adapted his technique
using things such as extensive use of hammer-ons and pull-offs, wide
interval leaps and 2 note intervals played together to forge one of the most
recognizable and imitated styles in jazz guitar. His playing has a sort of
awkward, jerky feel in comparison to someone like Metheny but I think that
is deliberate. To find an individual voice and be able to successfully apply
it in any relevant musical context can be an elusive goal but I think
Scofield has achieved that. When I first heard him I thought he wasn't a
very good player but then that's what I thought the first time I heard
Miles.

Brad R

Hi Ron,

Interesting you should mention that, because in past interviews, Scofield
has talked about how his right hand wasn't all that strong, so he developed
his playing to accommodate that. In the GP article, he mentions his right
hand has gotten "better", so it's nice to see even someone at that level is
always trying to improve...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

Zeek is right, check out Carlton on the Crusaders tune "And Then There Was
the Blues" on their "Those Southern Knights" album; he also lays down a
very tasty solo on Michael Franks' "Down in Brazil". I'm not sure what he's
doing now. As I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of Larry Carlton, but
he's a great player, and all-around musician, who plays, arranges, and
produces.

Scofield is in a different bag, and I think it was Brad Rabuchin who said
Scofield is one of the great "powerhouse" (my word) players of the last 25
years. He takes risks, goes in different directions, and yea, some of it
is "better", but the guy can play, and he has a signature sound and
vocabulary, things I aspire to as a jazz player...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

On Nov 28, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Zeek Duff wrote:

On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:06 AM, jazz_guitar@... wrote:

3h. Re: John Scofield in GP Magazine
Posted by: "keithfre" keith.freeman@... keithfre
Date: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 am ((PST))

Larry Carlton, who is every bit Scofield's equal on the instrument

But I've never heard him play anything I'd call jazz ;-}

Go back and listen to some of the stuff he played with the Jazz
Crusaders if you're expecting a more "mainstream" or "old school"
genre. He's BTDT, and moved on to his own thing. One thing I'll say
in passing, I've never heard Carlton playing anything that wasn't
tasty, never inappropriate, and I've only heard a few things of Sco's
even worth listening to. His attitude reminds me of Mike
Bloomfield's; when he put out an album of out of tune cuts, he
rationalized it by saying "That's just how I felt that day."
Bullshit. :) Carlton always tells a story, and that's what I aspire
to do too, always have.

Hey Zeek, I didn't hear Sco's attitude in the source of this thread
but I have a few of his videos and he definitely can come off like
he's made it into the click and you haven't. I never liked his tone
and only some of his playing. Heard Sco trounce Carlton on some live
thing but I still lean in Carlton's direction as someone who wears
his awesomeness well. Sco's playing is a little smeary for my tastes.
There is a small difference between his legato playing and someone
like Metheny who does it very well and could play everything in
alternate picking if he wanted to. Sco can't do that. I'm not saying
it would be musical to play that way, but it's a nice part of the kit
to have.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:06 AM, jazz_guitar@... wrote:

3h. Re: John Scofield in GP Magazine
Posted by: "keithfre" keith.freeman@... keithfre
Date: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 am ((PST))

Larry Carlton, who is every bit Scofield's equal on the instrument

But I've never heard him play anything I'd call jazz ;-}

Go back and listen to some of the stuff he played with the Jazz Crusaders if you're expecting a more "mainstream" or "old school" genre. He's BTDT, and moved on to his own thing. One thing I'll say in passing, I've never heard Carlton playing anything that wasn't tasty, never inappropriate, and I've only heard a few things of Sco's even worth listening to. His attitude reminds me of Mike Bloomfield's; when he put out an album of out of tune cuts, he rationalized it by saying "That's just how I felt that day." Bullshit. :) Carlton always tells a story, and that's what I aspire to do too, always have.

Best regards,
...z

When the art of storytelling goes bad, the result is decadence.
- Aristotle

Fingerstyle guitar jazz from Zeek Duff in BEAUTIFUL COLORADO
for streaming whole songs!

GP: That's a cool chord. Can you explain what you play during the
chromatic-sounding head melody that follows?

JS: There's nothing to explain. You just need to check out the notes, and
they are what they are.

I don't find that condescending at all. Just being straight with the
interviewer instead of trying to make himself look like some kind of arcane
mystic (Scofield).





My vote is with Sco, John







Reciprocity

I agree Brad.

Not only that, but how many of us can explain what we just played, if someone stops us and asks?
I definitely can't.

Chris

--- In jazz_guitar@..., Brad Rabuchin <bradrabuchin@...> wrote:

Yea, I think Scofield's comments are right on the money and I can't at the
moment remember any other interview where I've read a similar comment. I
think when a top level jazz player is soloing or filling he's not thinking
"plug in Super Locrian here" but rather seeing his whole arsenal of
available vocabulary, filtering it through the musical context of the moment
and reaching for melodic inspiration. That's not so easy and the fact that
Scofield is honest about that is refreshing.
Brad R
PS I agree "Piety Street" was pretty weak but one of the things I love about
Scofield is that he's always putting himself in different contexts. Some
work better then others but I think it's helped foster the evolution of him
as one of the most important jazz guitarists of the last 25 years.
.
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 4:37 PM, <JVegaTrio@...> wrote:

Hey Jeff,

To each his own. I didn't think Scofield was being condescending, and he
even goes as far as to apologize, and explain his viewpoint.

Larry Carlton is a great player, but I don't consider him Scofield's "equal

on the instrument", just my opinion. I think Scofield's saying one has to
do it on one's own, and not in "10 easy lessons", but again, my opinion.

FWIW, much as I really Scofield's playing, I thought the "Piety Street"
project was pretty crappy; I heard that band live, and it sounded as though
he
was phoning it in...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega


In a message dated 11/27/2010 4:25:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jcshirke@... <jcshirke%40frontier.com> writes:

He still didn't have to act like a condescending jackass. A guy like
Larry Carlton, who is every bit Scofield's equal on the instrument,
treats people with a lot more respect, and understands that there's
value in breaking down the kinds of lines he plays for the purpose of
teaching.

I think Scofield is a blowhard--for a lot of reasons. And the last
album of his I bought was the most god-awful thing I've ever heard. ;)
So there, Sco.

Jeff

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My friends, I just think that sometimes it's hard to explain,
jazz concepts in a small little sound byte and that is kind of what
guitar player magazine has turned into. That is what a lot of the
world has turned into! LOL!!

Nat janoff

www.natjanoff.com

Larry Carlton, who is every bit Scofield's equal on the instrument

But I've never heard him play anything I'd call jazz ;-}

-Keith

Scofield sounds ok in that quote. Tell it like it is!

--
* David Beardsley
*

Bobby wrote, snip


I'll take Sco's side on this one as well. It's one thing for us all here
on the list to banter back and forth about things like scales, modes,
key centers, but it's getting tired to read about it in rags like
Guitar Magazine. It's really getting tired here as well,




Dave,

I got the feeling that Sco was saying that in order to get into and stay
into a truly creative state of mind, you have to stop thinking about these
things which amount to "tools". I will say that on this list beginners ask
legitimate questions about "tools". However, after a few legitimate
answers, the thread degenerates into total bullshit that often has nothing
to do with the original thread.

Dave Woods

On 11/27/2010 8:08 PM, Brad Rabuchin wrote:

Yea, I think Scofield's comments are right on the money and I can't at the
moment remember any other interview where I've read a similar comment.

I'll take Sco's side on this one as well. It's one thing for us all here on the list to banter back and forth about things like scales, modes, key centers, &c, whatever (picks, strings, politics, religion, copyright infringement...), but it's getting tired to read about it in rags like Guitar Magazine. It's really getting tired here as well, but here it doesn't matter - most of the time we're just checking in to see how everyone is doing, anyway.

I'd much rather read about what Scofield thinks is important to him. He's been a force for a long time now, and he's got a lot to say.

best,
Bobby

I read that this evening and thought it was very interesting.

First off, I think Scofield could have been nicer about it. Either some thought went into it or not. If he just played it without thinking, he could have said so. He could have commented in a more generous way about how to get to the point where you don't have to think.

If, on the other hand, there was some conscious structure to what he was playing, he could have explained his thought processes.

Or, if he couldn't remember what he did, he could have said that.

Perhaps the interview could have approached the subject differently and then used something better than those passages.

Or, if he thinks that there's no point to such questions, he could have explained what the fallacy is.

Enough about that.

The implication of his remarks was that he learned by copying licks and not spending much time thinking about theory. Anybody know if that's true of him?

At 07:49 AM 11/27/2010, you wrote:

Hi Folks ,

has anybody selling for reasonable price Greco ES 175? in UK?

Shoot, I was trying to sell one for at least a year, but in Canada.

OH well, they're a great instrument. I hope you find one!

Chris

Yea, I think Scofield's comments are right on the money and I can't at the
moment remember any other interview where I've read a similar comment. I
think when a top level jazz player is soloing or filling he's not thinking
"plug in Super Locrian here" but rather seeing his whole arsenal of
available vocabulary, filtering it through the musical context of the moment
and reaching for melodic inspiration. That's not so easy and the fact that
Scofield is honest about that is refreshing.
Brad R
PS I agree "Piety Street" was pretty weak but one of the things I love about
Scofield is that he's always putting himself in different contexts. Some
work better then others but I think it's helped foster the evolution of him
as one of the most important jazz guitarists of the last 25 years.
.

Hey Jeff,

To each his own. I didn't think Scofield was being condescending, and he
even goes as far as to apologize, and explain his viewpoint.

Larry Carlton is a great player, but I don't consider him Scofield's "equal
on the instrument", just my opinion. I think Scofield's saying one has to
do it on one's own, and not in "10 easy lessons", but again, my opinion.

FWIW, much as I really Scofield's playing, I thought the "Piety Street"
project was pretty crappy; I heard that band live, and it sounded as though he
was phoning it in...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega