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At 11:42 AM 10/2/2005, you wrote:

John M, said a lot of other good things, but don't want to get into it here.
A lot of you guys are down on his playing, and he has always been one of my
many heroes...

I for one am interested, even though he isn't one of my favorites to listen to. He obviously has figured out how to get what's in his head and heart out through his instrument, which is the whole point, right?

Chris

Yep, it almost feels counterintuitive to relax to play faster, but everybody says that's the key. I still tense up.

Interesting about the breathing. If you want, try breathing in slowly for two bars, out for three bars maybe, depending of course on the speed of the tune. :) Yoga practitioners often do the four-fold breath: breath in for a slow count of four, hold for four, breath out for eight. or some version of the same, in for four, out for eight, hold for four ...
I haven't tried it, but if you did this at half the speed of the music you were playing, it should synchronize nicely as long as you're playing something in 4/4.

About tensing up: If any of you have never had a professional massage done, yes, professional! *wink*, do it. I thought I wouldn't be able to even relax enough to benefit, but after three times now, I can definitely say it helped me realize what "totally relaxed" is supposed to feel like, albeit a bit sore too. So much of my tension is unconscious it's bizarre.

But, yogis would say the same thing about breathing: most of us do it too little, too shalow, etc.

Chris

Once I become more confident in my playing, I would likely seek out
opportunities to play with others, which provides a real growth
opportunity. For now, I have a digital recorder that allows me laying
down chords and overlaying with melody, which allows me to develop my
lead playing. I could benefit from learning some more standard lead
phrases and fingerings, as I find I usually fall back on the same
patterns, and often fall in the trap of playing fast runs instead of
seeking slow melodic lines.

I look forward to ideas and suggestions on how to learn to become a
better and more satisfied jazz player.

Thank you.
--RObert







Try finding a teacher, perhaps one who plays another instrument. reading is
a useful tool, but not an essential one to have fun playing jazz tunes, but
your improvement will be much faster if you have someone as a benchmark.


Ron

on 10/2/05 11:42 AM, Jazzguitar5@... at Jazzguitar5@... wrote:

John M, said a lot of other good things, but don't want to get into it here.
A lot of you guys are down on his playing, and he has always been one of my
many heroes...

A lot who are down on his playing are pretty foolish, I'd say.

Hi
I agree with what Jeff has written in his last two posts. It is very hard to
know just how relaxed a player is. Very subjective!
Any way the point about breathing is not breathing like a horn but just being
relaxed within yourself. If your not relaxed you may lose the groove.
Yogic breathing methods may be fine I don't really know anything about them.
Relaxing mentally without hearing some inner criticism of your own solo that
causes you to sabotage yourself is much more important I believe.
The key to that is knowing the material! Werner's book quoted Bill Evan's who
when asked how much he practiced said he practiced the minimum. Meaning the
minimum amt. Of material in any one session. It is so easy to become
overwhelmed by the tunes that are out there that you do not commit many to memory for
years.

As far as exercises to assist in one being relaxed I believe Joe Diorio was
on to something when he suggested just free playing in a session with your Eyes
closed.
That is playing on the right side of the brain playing from your intuition.
Additionally not being too self critical allow yourself to make mistakes just
don''t worry about it let it happen then it's history. Most likely you won't
but your creativity will emerge.

Now for a pet peeve of mine?
Can we really phrase like a horn? We can play the same line but we cant play
long tones so how does one breathe like a horn?
We don't really! So what to do? Play Guitaristic solo's meaning play more
than one note at a time. Double stops! Practice well known solo's by adding notes
of any interval that catches your ear. This well make for an interesting
solo's rather than sounding fiddly. The solo tends to breathe better. As Wes did
for octaves it is a similar dramatic effect. Your listeners ears will pick up!
Just my suggestion!
Ciao brother and sisters,
Tony Hughes SEPA

Robert
Where do you live?
If you are near PA I will talk to you off line!
Best
Tony Hughes

How I come up with melodies like that? That's a very hard question
to answer accurately. My first thought was to answer with something
like: "Heck ... I don't know... they are in my head." But probably
there's more to it than that.

I started very late on jazz guitar. I took my first lesson at the
age of 38. I'd been playing for 25 years at the time and I was a
good blues and rock player, never short of melodies in that
department, though obviously the vocabulary was limited to the blues
and rock vocabulary, so largely minor and major pentatonic and
probably some modal sounds too. But I did not know that at the time.

I remember in my first lesson how I had to improvise on Autumn
Leaves as a kind of benchmark and my teacher thought it sounded good
already even though I did not have ANY theory down whatsoever and
knew little to no jazz vocabulary.

Of course I went the same road as most with jazz voicings, scales
and arps and chord melodies. Later I studied transcribed solos. I
played a lot and still do.

I never went for the theory thing though. I know the basics (scales,
arps, subs etc.) but that's pretty much it. I never read any of the
theory stuff here or on any other newsgroups. Playing by ear has
always been way more important to me than applying theoretical
concepts. You have to internalize the typical jazz sounds and
there's more than one way to do this I guess. I use my ears.

I used several books. On my website you can find a list of books I
like.



I think in the end playing jazz is just about hearing melodies in
your head. Not about knowing things. I think theory can be as much
of a pitfall as a tool if it does not translate into your playing.
Knowing how to climb a mountain is not the same as actually being
able to do it.

Mmmmm ... I still tend to answer your question with ... "Heck I
don't know." But that's probably not what you want to hear.

Regards,

Dick







--- In jazz_guitar@..., "leeflindall2003"
<lflindall@h...> wrote:

Lovely video Dick, just how did you learn to play like that? What
methodologies get one to play like that?

I dont suppose any one book can do it, do you mind me asking how
long you have been playing, and do u have any advice for someone

who

knows their scales and arps, but just cant come up with the

melodies

that ur improv displays, I mean, where do those melodies come from
when ur improvising like that?

My problem is I know the scales/arps, but frustrated that I cant
come up with such "jazz"

Many thanks, and great playing,

lee

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "Dick" <d.onstenk@c...> wrote:

On the Tal Farlow. You can see the flames even through the video
compression blurr! Some pocket problems in the second chorus,

but

hey ... this is no tune to play first thing in the morning when

out of

bed on a Saturday morning....:)

The Tal is a gorgeous guitar. I got mine in my favorite finish

for

this model (Viceroy Sunburst). You can see it well on this vid.



Regards,

Dick

I am currently involved in an Elvis project so...

If there is anybody on this list who has ever backed Elvis I would be very interested in asking some questions - please could they email me privately at will@...

Many thanks,

Will

It's not a vague criticism. It's a very important one.

I think it's completely vague.

you lack individualism in you playing. No big deal.

I've never understood this one either. I sound like me, no matter how hard I may try not to. How can anybody lack individualism in their playing? No matter how hard you may try to imitate someone else, you'll always sound like yourself.

Jeff

Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@...> wrote:
but doesnt feel relaxed... what can I do to fix this?

It means you don't sound natural, you haven't made the sound your own. You'll get it in time. It's not a vague criticism. It's a very important one.

Try scatting your lines, this will help alot, you probably are great but you lack individualism in you playing. No big deal.

Joe
On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:11 PM, Ray East wrote:

Im here at UNF, and Im trying to get all of my stuff together
now... A couple of guys have told me that my swing feel is good,
but doesnt feel relaxed... what can I do to fix this?

That's a vague criticism to level at someone. It doesn't "feel
relaxed"? Says who??And how would they know, since you're the one
feeling it? Unless someone can offer some more specific advice, if I
were you, I'd blow them off.

There are obvious things to look for, such as your straight
technique. Are your hands and body relaxed? Is there any obvious
stiffness in your playing and your technique (e.g. Do you have a
particularly stiff sounding vibrato?)? If not, then it sounds to me
like theirs is a subjective and vague opinion that is pretty much
meaningless.

Jeff

Hi all. It's great to be part of a community of such knowledgeable
folks in the field of jazz guitar.

I'm 49, have just acquired a very nice 18 year old Ibanez archtop and
wish to get back into jazz guitar learning and playing. I don't play
professionally, just for fun with a couple of friends (folk, blues,
smidgeon of "jazz"), and occasionally accompany a couple of latin
american female friends in playing brazilian songs (bossa nova, MPB)
that I learned during a period of infatuation with Brazilian music
about 10-15 years ago.

About 20 years ago, I decided I want to expand my playing from the
blues and folk which I learned to play initially, and try to play some
of the music that I loved so much from the jazz masters (Pass, Kessel,
Smith, etc) I was hearing on radio. It was a foreign world, guitar
wise, and my guide was Mickey Baker's "Complete Course in Jazz Guitar
1", where I learned most of the chords I still use today. Never got
to the end of the book though. I switched to a couple of "Fake Books"
to get the basic chord structure of classic tunes, and got Mel Bay's
Chord book to allow me to find the chord voicing that sounded "right"
to me. I would sometimes transcribe these on tab chord sheets so I
would remember my "arrangements".

I was really inspired the other night, watching a TV special on jazz
bars in NYC that showed Les Paul playing onstage at 90 with arthritic
hands, and having so much fun. I thought: jazz guitar can be a source
of learning and pleasure to the end of my life too, and a source of
growth, both musically but also spiritually. That's when I went out
and bought a nice jazz guitar, to inspire me to go further down that
path.

I'm now pondering what is the best course to refresh my jazz knowledge
on the guitar (which is somewhat rudimentary) and proceed to higher
and more satisfying levels. Should I pick up Baker's book again and
work deeper into his lessons? Should I rather invest in some of the
DVD-based courses now available? Should I invest in private lessons?

One drawback I have is that I don't (easily) read music notation. I
mean, I can figure out things but it takes me a LONG time, note by
note. So I largely rely on tabs, chord symbols, and my ears. I tried
a few years ago to teach myself music reading, but it was like going
back to kindergarten so I stopped in frustration.

Once I become more confident in my playing, I would likely seek out
opportunities to play with others, which provides a real growth
opportunity. For now, I have a digital recorder that allows me laying
down chords and overlaying with melody, which allows me to develop my
lead playing. I could benefit from learning some more standard lead
phrases and fingerings, as I find I usually fall back on the same
patterns, and often fall in the trap of playing fast runs instead of
seeking slow melodic lines.

I look forward to ideas and suggestions on how to learn to become a
better and more satisfied jazz player.

Thank you.
--RObert

I have recently noticed that I don't control my breathing while
playing, and I end up either with no air at all (I stop breathing) or
I inhale panically and coincidently and that kiks me out of my
playing. The reason I ask this is that I have heard so many players
taking breath just before a phrase. How can I learn this? Are there
any exercises?

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "sonomatips" <sonomatips@y...>
wrote:

band. But you can really hear the influence of Ornette Coleman in
Metehny's playing too.

What about Metheny's playing on BSL do you hear 'Ornette'? (other than
he played an one of his tunes)

Ken

I could have sold my old 1962 Hofner Verithin a dozen times at gigs, the pickups are actually not that good but the sound is the most woody, jazzy tone of any of my instruments. I have analyzed this and have posted previously about it.

However, at last night`s gig (Saturday,) I was using a new cheapo Ibanez jazz box and everybody said how much they liked our sound. My partner was using his new Matheney Ibanez but nobody commented on any difference in the sound of the two guitars. (We were both plugged into the same Vox AC30.)

When I saw John Etheridge recently his SG was missing a pickup with holes where it should have been and holes where he had ripped out some of the controls. I didn't go to look at the guitar.

So, if anybody wants to spend a fortune on replacement pickups that aren't much different to what they already have - go right ahead we can all use the business.

Will

John M, said a lot of other good things, but don't want to get into it here.
A lot of you guys are down on his playing, and he has always been one of my
many heroes...

Breathing like a horn player is fine as is phrasing like one. But the best
advice I ever recieved was from John McLaughlin after a Shakti concert back in
78-79. I would stop breathing or take short breaths ( I wasn't even aware at
the time), it would deplete my Oxygen so that I would get shaky and choppy in my
lines. Partly from being scared and worrying about my chops partly from not
breathing. I ask John about it and what he did, he told me first when I was
scared to physically tell my self, arms, wrist whatever to relax outloud...
Giving a verbal command actually the body responds to, it was amazing. The second
was to learn how to do more of a yogic breathing style, what now I refer to
Taoist breathing techniques. He simply said to take full, slow breaths... this
immediately had effects on my phrasing, the Oxygen content of my blood flow
etc... He also said to hold the pick very lightly and not hard.

Jim Blackthorne...

It was probably me who posted about Mickey Bakers jazz guitar book.

I bought this book back in 1969 from Rushworths & Drapers who were the main Liverpool music shop at the time (now long gone.) I believe it to be a superb course.

The book is divided into weekly lessons and takes a great deal of time to work through. Far from being dated I believe it to be a valuable work which can be revisited over and over. When I attended a seminar with John Pisano last year I specifically asked him what he thought of the Mickey Baker books (there is a vol 2 as well.) His reply was that is was an old work that was extremely good.

This work was written in the days before short cuts and computer programmes - and as most people who want to get anywhere with music discover - there is no such thing as a short cut.

Recommended

Will

Umm, I heard more of a rock influence in Metheny's playing: early Larry
Coryell & Bill Connors (especially his acoustic album 'Theme to The
Guardian' which came out a few years before 'Bright Size Life'). Of
course, Larry was in Gary Burton's band and Bill was in Chick Corea's
band. But you can really hear the influence of Ornette Coleman in
Metehny's playing too.

Steve Khan's book, 'Chord Khancepts' is an excellent follow-up to the
Baker books, because he covers more modern comping techniques and how
to substitute common triads for any chord - very valuable.

--- In jazz_guitar@..., "john dean" <deanwork2003@y...>
wrote:

Whoever suggtested the Mickey Baker jazz guitar method for leaning
chord forms, thank you, thank you. This is the kind of book I've
looked for off and on on for years. I bought it and the William
Leavitt courses first volume. With the two of these I think this is
all I need for awhile, besides time and my Real Books.

I like what Baker said in the very first of the book - there are so
many guitar chords that frankly aren't very useful, I want you to
learn these very useful chords and transpose them into all the keys,
then I'll show you more when you learn those - Sounds basic, and it
is, but it works, and those are indeed very useful chord forms for
both comping and improvising.

I got both of these books used on Amazon for probaly a total of
$15.00. Best money I've spent.

John

At 09:14 PM 10/1/2005, you wrote:

and Stradivari are worth millions, in some cases. With the guitar, we have a
relative bargain, plus chicks.

Speak for yourself. I'm starting to think only the rockers get "groupies". Maybe I'm playing the wrong places?

Chris