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--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Randy Groves <bebopguitar@y...> wrote:

Jazzers: Well, I took the plunge, bought a bass
(g)string and tuned my Es 150 down a 5th according to
the directions someone posted (thanks to whomever it
was!).

So your pickups pickup the bass string okay? Did you have to alter
the nut and the bridge? Any other mods you have to make to the
guitar?

And shouldn't the normal guitar be called alto
then?

The term "alto guitar" (or "Altgitarren") usually refers to an 11
stringed guitar tuned g1-d1-a-f-c-G-F-Ess-D-C-B (lute tuning). It's
used in guitar orchestras and is best-known in Sweden. For more info
check out:

It seems that there is such a thing called a
tenor guitar, but I don't remember what it was. Just a
thought.

A tenor guitar is a four-stringed instrument most often tuned in
fifths. Usually it's tuned CGDA but it can also be tuned GDAE or
even AEAE or ADAD. It's useful for banjoists, mandolinists and
violinists who are used to playing on instruments tuned in fifths.
Because of the widespread prejudice against banjoists
("Huh! 'Deliverance'!") and against original jazz ("Huh! Dixieland!")
tenor guitars tend to be undervalued on the used instrument market,
although that appears to be changing. For more info check out:


I myself just purchased a cheap tenor guitar for less money than I'm
paying the luthier to fix it. I like the sounds that the different
chord voicings suggest and playing single note leads on strings tuned
in fifths suggest different possibilities to me. It won't be my main
axe by any means but it will be another item in my bag of tricks.

Cheers,
Kevin
www.TheNettles.com

Once again on reading. When I was a kid I studied with Dennis Sandole. He
told me to read from Wolfhart scales for violin.

I would have to say that my favorite reading is reading from all of the Real
Books. After all, its what I like to play so why not read stuff that is
musical and is in the genre you like? And its fun and you get to learn some
new songs.

David

Hi,

I have a slightly different perspective on reading. I was taught by a
perfectionist classica/jazz piano player. He stressed reading a piece
perfectly. His feeling was that if you play it almost right and you keep
playing it that way you are practicing how to play wrong! For me it was
true, I played most of the song right and sort of fudged the hard parts. So,
using logic we would go over one measure even a part of a measure and get it
right. He emphasized the pulse, and I would put markings on the one and
three beat. I got drum rhythm books and would work through them.

Certainly, if you slow down and play a small part you can get it right. And
interestingly, the "slower you go the faster you get there" with reading.

We shouldn't mistake reading for playing. Lots of people can play great,
know scales, have great ears and all and don't read. They are two different
skills. I just like the idea of picking up a book and playing through it
like a "real musician." My teacher also had ulterior motives! He wrote a
ton of original songs that were quite complicated. He liked the way I played
and all, but it was a big drag to teach me all the songs by ear. I am still
learning. I would say that it is really a discipline to learn how to read
well. And like most disciplines it is worth the effort.

Good luck and have big fun

David Rudick

I saw the Antecedent-Consequent Phrase article in Just Jazz Guitar and have
been working on this. It t has been very helpful in helping me to integrate
another approach to soloing. I feel it's really helping me take my soloing to
another level in a way that has been more succesful for me than more theory
oriented approaches.

Jeff Spaulding

Hi everyone,
Before address Dan's post below, I'd like to introduce
myself as I've been lurking on this group for a while. My
name's Mike Woo and jazz is relatively new to me. I took
it up about 3 years ago and gig in a trio (guitar/piano/bass)
doing standards at weddings/parties/restaurants/bookstores...
whatever we can find. :-) I also study at the McGill Jazz
Conservatory in Montreal (you must come check out our world
reknowned jazz fest sometime) where I get to play in a 5-6 piece
combo setting and learn from the more experience teachers there.
Apart from the jazz thing, I've been playing guitar for more
years than I care to admit :-) and like some of you, come from
a blues/rock/r&b background, having gigged steadily since '85
in various cover bands. But now I can't get enough jazz (and
neither can my wife since my band rehearsals have gotten a lot
quieter :-D). Anyway I'm really looking forward to exchanging
ideas about jazz with all of you and learning from this great
little players community. Cheers from Canada.

On the topic of antecedent-consequent phrases, there's an
excellent book by Bert Ligon called "Connecting Chords With
Linear Harmony" which covers this exact territory. He basically
breaks down ii-V lines into three basic "outlines", explains
WHY they work harmonically and shows you how to embellish them
so you can come up with your own (the chapter on embellishment
is worth the price alone IMHO). He then gives loads of transcribed
examples as played by famous jazzers to illustrate how the masters
use/embellish these outlines. I've amassed quite a collection of
jazz educational materials over the years, but this one has
definitely been one of the most helpful (YMMV). In any case,
it's a great way to learn how to construct your own antecedent-consequent
phrases which really spell out the changes...a good place to start.
Highly recommended.

Mike
mike@...

Hello everyone:

I work as an assistant producer (volunteer) for the Charleston,
SC Jazz Festival and I'm hoping to help grow the festival over
the next few years. I'm also in the process of developing their
website, .

One idea I am mulling over would be to organize a "jazz guitar
night" as part of the festival where we get several guitarists
to each do a 45-60 minute set at one of our better venues like
Music Farm or Cumberland's. Would any of the list members have
a preliminary interest in participating in such an event, probably
sometime in Sept. or Oct.? One caveat: we are cash poor, not
broke, but trying to get the coffers filled back up again after
a particularly bad year of fundraising and low sponsorship.
I hope we can remedy this soon. In other words, this would be
the type of gig where you'd come visit a lovely city, have a
mini-vacation of sorts, and make a little bit of money ($300
- 500) for an hours' work.

The second thing is that I'd love recommendations, resources,
ideas etc. for funding, sponsorship, and support. As there are
many experienced musicians and music professionals here I am
hoping to find out what works. This year's event is very small,
really not a festival at all, but I want this event to grow into
a premier jazz event for the Southeast.

Thanks for your time,

Sean Dennis

Web Usability and Design Consulting

sdennis@...

Thanks for answering, Jimmy! I truly appreciate it.

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Jimmy Bruno" <jbguit@y...> wrote:

-That's a good question Paul. I never had that problem.

Well you're more lucky and/or agile than I am.

If you
truly have the economy picking down you should try practicing it

with

swing 8th notes.

I have -- it's just extremely difficult for me (at the moment), and
even if I sort of get it down at one tempo, then I have to sort of
start from square one at a different tempo. Alternate picking does
not present these problems for me. Given that I don't have too much
time to practice these days, I've simply learned to revert to
alternate picking when I want to play a swing-8th line, and if I want
to sound like I'm swinging at faster tempos, playing straight with
economy picking but a little behind the beat seems to get the effect
across.

Next time my schedule opens up, I'll have to try working on swinging
the economy picking again. Thanks for the advice!

I'm surprised to hear that you never had this problem. When playing a
sweep arpeggio, it's so much easier to play it straight then swung.
To play it straight, you simply drag the pick across the strings at a
constant speed. To play it swung . . . aarrrggghh!

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Randy Groves <bebopguitar@y...> wrote:

Jazzers: Well, I took the plunge, bought a bass
(g)string and tuned my Es 150 down a 5th according to
the directions someone posted (thanks to whomever it
was!). (A, D, G, C, E, A) It sounds very cool. You
have to learn to avoid muddiness, but it has real
possibilities. I will probably start to bring it as a
second guitar to my gigs for a little variety. I can't
believe the rockers don't try this tuning.

You obviously haven't been reading the guitar magazines lately! There
are instruments (baritone guitars) built specifically for this tuning.

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Henry Kaplan" <milesgreen@m...> wrote:

Hey-
I am 13 years old and study jazz guitar. I am around the beginner-

intermediate level right now. I understand most concepts and I know
music theory. Right now I am working on single note improvisation
mostly.

I always love it when guitarists play heads of songs in chords. How

do you come up with what type of chord to use for each note? I have
tried just using diatonic chords to do this but it never works too
great.

-Henry Kaplan

Hi Henry, Try working on Freddie the Freeloader with the top note of
the chord as the melody. For the first part useB13(6th stirng) to
Dm7b5(5th string)(same as B9 without the root). Then for the second
part use Eb13(5th string) to Gm7b5(4th string) (same as E9 without
the root). For the last part just use 7th chords on the 5th string in
root position ending on an Eb9 chord to the Ab7(6th string with the
pinky on the melody). Ex.

|Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 |Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 |
|Eb13 Gm7b5|Gm7b5 |Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 E7|
|F7 E7|Eb7 Eb9|Ab7 |Ab7 ||
|Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 |Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 |
|Eb13 Gm7b5|Gm7b5 |Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 E7|
|F7 E7|Eb7 Eb9|Bb13 Dm7b5|Dm7b5 ||

Jim

Unless the melody note is not in the triad. At that point, you're either using tensions on top of the triad, using 7th chords, using substitute chords, or using upper-structure triads.

Mike Crutcher
Guitarist/Vocalist/Arranger/Instructor
Available for sessions/fill-ins/performances/private lessons.



"You've Got To Funkifize"
-Tower Of Power

jazz_guitar@... wrote:

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:06:01 -0000
From: "Paul Erlich" <paul@...>
Subject: Re: Question For Jimmy Bruno

Actually, Jimmy is still here.

Jimmy, if you're truly still here, would you attempt to answer the
technique question I asked you? It's message #3358.

Well, I lied. Sorta. ;) Jimmy will still be around the forum, but is leaving (or has left) for what looked to be a whirlwind short tour. He wrote me he was leaving for LA Thursday, then going to Florida, then Santa Fe... It may be a bit before he gets to respond.

However, in the meantime, you may recall I mentioned a while back the Ted Greene book "Jazz Guitar - Single Note Soloing - Volume 2." Well, I finally got mine and in perusing it, I found a few things pertinent to the discussion here.

The book is based on the concept of soloing, or building single lines/scales out of one chord (hand) position, generally not having to move around a lot, but once in a while, a half step either direction. So, it makes things lay quite handily, once the concept is understood. I've been working on that on my own for some time, and this is why the book was recommended to me. Here's what I think is relevant to this discussion.

One; for you Paul, there is a section on syncopation, which would be in line with your question to Jimmy. Once various scales are mastered, executing them with feeling, something other than machine gunned speed is desirable. As usual, Ted takes the concept to the clouds. (Well, except in Vol I, he apparently didn't. ;) When I get a few minutes, I'll see if there's some text I can transcribe (without breaking any copyright law) for some quick tips for ya...

Two; for you Jim, there is a section on soloing over fast changes. Ted breaks things down, starting with segments that cover a change every two beats and shows how to find the related stuff quickly, without a lot of thinking about it. Tip: (Also, using partials like Lenny Breau's comping technique of playing just 3rds and 5ths [he called them "essential tones"] and building solos around that concept would be a quick way to get a handle on more complex changes than can't be read or memorized quickly. Not in Ted's book as such, though the idea fits. I also find no problem in adapting Lenny's right hand fingerings for Ted's stuff.)

Three; for you Lynn, for reading practice, there are more arpeggios and chordal concepts, with more musical examples in this book than in any of his previous books. Anyone who found the least bit of use from Chord Chemistry will be knocked out by all the great stuff in this one. I read through the first chapter then started skipping ahead, and I'll definitely be able to play my way through the whole thing. There's nothing here that can't be done by a half-decent reader, but you do need to be able to read music. There are some fingering notations, hand position charts, etc., but it's mostly notation with a lot of good text explaining what is going on and how to get
there. In fact, even if you don't read music or read well, the text and chord charts (hand positions) will open a lot of mental doors.

Also, for reading fun AND learning tunes, I think Alisdair (maybe Michael Crutcher?) mentioned before that taking a piano part (treble clef) from a chart (sheet music) will often yield a better concept of a song than reading the often lame chord symbols/graphs. Good idea, and of course, the bass clef may be transposed or you can just use the otherwise "lame" chord symbols for your bass notes. :) Someone had a question about playing (learning) the head of a tune, how to go about getting the nice chords, and this is *IT*, m'man... :)

Last thoughts, about playing with a metronome and fingering. If you have a good sense of time, playing with a click is not necessary unless you're developing a real bad hitch in your giddyup. Playing with a MIDI bass track like from a Boss JamStation or Band In A Box, can cure that and it's way more fun than a simple click. I have a JamStation and have punched in a tune just all in one long line of chord changes, then messed with the different factory "styles" which will yield a variety of bass lines (and great drums; I usually turn the keyboard parts off) in lotsa jazz styles, and it's a GAS to play over. In economizing fingering, Dave Stagner's mention of Fripp's
advice is great. Also, you'll find that as you come up to speed in playing changes AND scale work, you'll have no choice. I never really thought about it, but when I learn something new, I tend to get kinda "curly" initially myself; but once I stop thinking about it, in looking at my hand, Fripp's example is exactly what happens.

Back to the woodshed, the Vol 2 Ted Greene book, and my new Duke Ellington book. :)

Regards,
...z


Life is too short to play with bad drummers . . .

-- =---Seek the truth, speak the truth!---= --

L.G. "Zeek" Duff
WHAT!Productions!
Blue Wall Studio
303.485.9438
ICQ#35974686

Ken,

What do you mean by 7th triads? How is that different than 4 string
7th chords?

(Do you mean dropping a root or fifth, and substituting the 7th?)


I've done some of this myself, and it is a good exercise by the way.

Bill

This is really good also for fretboard knowledge. You can start

with

regular triads (major/minor), then 7th triads. After these come
naturally, you can use 4 string 7th chords.

(The exercise should focus on picking the inversion where the

highest

note is closest to the melody note, and play that melody note with
the top string)



Ken

Melodic Rhythms for Guitar is a great book - I taught out of it for
years. If you happen to be a Band In A Box user surf on over to the
Yahoo BIAB group and there is a Zip file there with all of the
exercises from the Melodic Rhythms book. [Moderators Note: The zip
file is also in this group under Files/BIAB] If it is not there feel free
to e-mail me at broetker@...

Bob
www.bobroetker.com

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Michael Crutcher" <Funkifized@h...> wrote:

That's a good one, too. That's by Bugs Bower. However, there's a

more

organized method that's pretty much the same methodology

called "Melodic

Rhythms For Guitar" by Leavitt. It organizes all the 8th note

rhythms that

can be played, in a systematic way. I've used both. It's probably

worth

owning both books. But if I were to choose, I'd get Melodic Rhythms.

Mike Crutcher
Guitarist/Vocalist/Arranger/Instructor
Available for sessions/fill-ins/performances/private lessons.



"You've Got To Funkifize"
-Tower Of Power

From: Randy Groves <bebopguitar@y...>
Reply-To: jazz_guitar@y...
To: jazz_guitar@y...
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] reading
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:49:00 -0700 (PDT)

Lorraine: the best book for learning to read, in my
view, is an old book called _Rhythyms Complete_ by
Bugs ?. I'll get the last name. It is what I learned
on. It is very systematic and by the end you can read
almost anything. Randy Groves
--- Lorraine Goods <lg96@c...> wrote:

I've been working w/William Leavitt's Modern Method
for Guitar for about a
month now and want to thank those of you who
recommended this book to me;
I'm learning a lot. I'm just wondering if I'm doing
it right, the sight
reading parts I mean. Should I
always practice w/a metronome? And if I do and come
to a hard part, do I
just slow down for that part and then go back up to
speed once I get thru
it? I ask bc when I come to a hard part I usually
get tripped up for a
beat or two while I figure it out before I get back
on tempo.

Also, can anyone recommend a book w/more reading
studies in it? I
think I'd benefit from more practice in certain
keys.

Many thanks,
Lynn

=====
J. Randall Groves, Ph.D. ("Rando")
Professor of Humanities
Ferris State University
groves@f...
bebopguitar@y...

Has anyone read the article by Reno De Stefano in the May 2001 issue
of 'Just Jazz Guitar' called: "Jazz Improvisation: Antecedent-
Consequent Phrases"?

It deals with some very basic bebop ideas, but he presents it in a
way that I think is very digestible. Most other presentations of
these ideas that I have seen are useful in analyzing a phrase after
the fact (e.g. guide tones and forward motion), but in this article
he gives a fairly simple recipe for formulating good bebop lines.

For those who missed it, I created a little summary here:



Enjoy,
-Dan

I use Trancsribe! by Seventh String Software.
I've tried a few others, but IMO this is the most stable.
It even works in real-time (or near real-time). No messy
huge intermediate slow down files to worry about...
It's done in Visual C++ so you don't need
the Visual Basic runtime DLL.

John

I always love it when guitarists play heads of songs in chords. How

do you come up with what type of chord to use for each note? I have
tried just using diatonic chords to do this but it never works too
great.

-Henry Kaplan

I am interested in this too, and I'm not that great at it, but a
great exercise for developing this is to play through tunes in the
Real Book using triads with the melody note on top.

This is really good also for fretboard knowledge. You can start with
regular triads (major/minor), then 7th triads. After these come
naturally, you can use 4 string 7th chords.

(The exercise should focus on picking the inversion where the highest
note is closest to the melody note, and play that melody note with
the top string)



Ken

Hi Jim,
Your ideas also work just fine. No matter how good you get you're gonna
occasionally find yourself in situations where you have to get through a tune
that because of its tempo, harmonic complexity or unfamiliarity is somewhere
at (or beyond)the edge of your ability. In those types of situations
anything you can do to simplify the harmonic landscape can be the difference
between survival or crashing and burning.

As far as improvised chord soloing, to get into something alittle more
advanced then I was suggesting in my last post, here's a couple of
suggestions to get started:
A month or 2 back someone here made the excellent suggestion of practicing
tunes acappella(solo) using various techniques, for example: a chorus of
comping, of comping with walking bass, one with melody or chord melody, one
or more with with single line soloing etc...(I practice this way all the
time). Anyway, try this: play a tune through in time with as much as you can
of a improvised chord solo. then stop and work on any areas that are
particularly lame. Then try it again in time etc...
Try using some of these ideas:

Hold down 2 or 3 chord tones(3rds and 7ths are a good place to start) and

play a few single notes over them.{Lenny Breau)

Find little groups of chords from the same family that work together, learn

them, and use them together as a group(the same way you might use a scale
position)(Pass)

Hold a common note while changing through several voicings.(Mike Stern)
Let an open string ring as a pedal while moving 2 or 3 note chords

vertically on the neck.(Metheny, Ralph Towner)
Hope this helps alittle.
Brad

kangas@... wrote:

Great advice, Brad. I also have this problem sometimes on tunes where
someone decides to play it "uptempo". Another way to state it is to
determine the basic tonality and not stray too far, but to find just
a note or two that will reflect the changes. So for example, if a
tune is mostly in C and goes to A7, instead of thinking A7, I might
look at it as playing in C, but changing the C to a C#. Of course,
you can always play the blues (can get old after a chorus, though),
or work on some all-purpose pentatonics. Another approach is to take
the existing melody (assuming that you know it or can read it), and
play the same notes but backwards, in different rhythms, etc. - with
a little practice, your solo will sound a lot like the original tune,
but different.

I am curious about your comment on using a chord solo. I'm at the
point where I can play a lot of heads as a chord melody, and can solo
in single notes, but I'm still having a tough time doing an
improvised "chord solo". I've sort of been easing into this trying to
use a "shout chorus" idea, and I'm actually sort of excited that it's
forcing me to think about my single note lines in a more melodic way
instead of running arpeggios, scales, etc. But any ideas you have on
this would be appreciated.

-Jim

Check out this book which I think every guitarist should read:



-Dan


--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Dave Stagner <dave@s...> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 11:47:09PM -0000, Justin wrote:

Hi I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about
economizing my left hand fingering.I lift my fingers
too high from the fretboard and I loose speed. Can
anyone help???

Robert Fripp had some good advice on this in Guitar Player, many

years

ago... he said don't *lift* your fingers... *release* them. The

resting

position for your fretting fingers should not be on the strings, but
rather slightly above them. To fret a note, you press the finger

down to

the fingerboard. To release, you don't lift your finger... you

simply let

go, and it springs back to its natural position above the

fingerboard.

It takes some practice, but it's worth trying! It gets rid of a

LOT of

wasted effort, and reduces strain on your hand.

-dave

-That's a good question Paul. I never had that problem. If you
truly have the economy picking down you should try practicing it with
swing 8th notes. Also, remember about articulations... long notes
short notes. Take a Bird solo and try practicing that with the
picking. I myself cannnot play alternate picking at all. Practice
slurs,,, two downs etc.... all these techniques will give some
shape to your lines. I always found it easier to edit what I have
practiced.

That's a good one, too. That's by Bugs Bower. However, there's a more organized method that's pretty much the same methodology called "Melodic Rhythms For Guitar" by Leavitt. It organizes all the 8th note rhythms that can be played, in a systematic way. I've used both. It's probably worth owning both books. But if I were to choose, I'd get Melodic Rhythms.

Mike Crutcher
Guitarist/Vocalist/Arranger/Instructor
Available for sessions/fill-ins/performances/private lessons.



"You've Got To Funkifize"
-Tower Of Power