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I thought I needed the mortgage-buster vintage model myself until I heard a
skilled player at a guitar show "putting on a clinic" so to speak on a Paul
Reed Smith solid body. Those are expensive too, but it's the player that
makes it happen.

John Klatt

Mark

Dave Liebman's work is often describe as
"Contemporary/Modern jazz". Dave has a perchant for
modern harmony - lots of altered chords, suspensions etc.
From some of the thoughts you've shared with us here
I think you'd enjoy his work. :)

Dave Liebman's group also featured Vic Juris on guitar. Vic
uses a very modern sound, and recently now uses the Roland
Guitar Synth and VG8.

Recently, they launched a Play-A-Long CD for the Aebersold
catalog. Vol 81 Contemporary Standards and Originals with
the Dave Liebman Group.

They also have a number of CD's out check out his site for
lots of further info:



Alisdair MacRae Birch
Jazz Guitarist

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Zeek Duff" <zkduff@q...> wrote:

jazz_guitar@y... wrote:

Ted has another book I'm told is the exact revelation
we're looking for in the process you're talking about.
This book is called Jazz Guitar Single Note Soloing by Ted
Greene. It's on backorder from Amazon, but
activemusician.com has it for a few $ more, and they don't
SAY it's on backorder. :) I'm still waiting for my copy
(sometime between Sept. 6-26 <sigh>), but someone I trust
implicitly to know tells me it will become my new guitar
Bible... We'll see.

Rats. I forgot to mention that it is Volume Two. If you're
not a beginner, don't bother with Volume One.

Regards,
...z

I'm a big fan of Bruno's playing . I have analyzed some of his solos
and I am blown away by how cool they are. I also agree with Steve's
comments above regarding the "simple" approach. Joe Pass echos many of
the same ideas as Bruno and I apply this to my approach and analysis
as well.
It's a shame he did not get mentioned, but don't all these list leave
you disappointed?

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Ilkov, Alen" <alen@c...> wrote:

Practice is an interesting subject when you raise it with

accomplished

musicians. I just came back from jazz residency at Stanford,

attended Pat

Martino classes and found out that he doesn't practice any more. And

he also

messed up a couple of times when showing examples - but who cares!

At the

concert on Monday he didn't mess up once and that's what counts.

Phil Woods, a great alto player, was there and he doesn't practice.

Bruce

Forman was there, loved his playing, but he also messed up - so did

John

Stowell. Just shows they are human.

This doesn't mean that you are wrong to feel thas way about Jimmy,

just

playing devil's advocate here. I was kind of surprised too to hear

that when

you get on a certain level, you don't need to practice nearly as

much.

Alen

-----Original Message-----
From: jazzgtr85@a...
To: jazz_guitar@y...
Sent: 8/13/01 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat

I have seen and taken numerous classes with jimmy and his approach

and

view
is soo black and white and offensive to me. His views on pat

metheny

made me
want to scream! Jimmy Bruno feels threatened by the thought of

music at

a
new level. I used to love him..... then i just started to see a lot

of

shallowness in his playing. Im sorry if im being to blunt here...

but

these
are my feelings. His technique has suffered greatly also... i asked
what he
prctices to keep in shape... he replied " well, i dont feel the need

to

practice anymore". It was really evident when he was showing us

scales.

He
would also play an exercise as fast as he could just to impress the
class.
He kept messing up! Not everyone is perfect, but thats why theres
practice!

anyone else agree??

hit me back!

-jack

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., Mark Stanley <bucketfullopuke@y...> wrote:

Can anyone recommend a couple good recordings by Dave Liebman.
I'm new to him.

John McLaughlin: My Goals Beyond
Miles Davis: On the Corner, Dark Magus, Get Up With It
Dave Liebman: First Visit, John Coltrane's Meditations
Bob Moses: Bittersweet in the Ozone

That's about it for my collection . . .

AC 30 top boost is not an easy thing to use: the tone controls are
really weird, and after I have had my ?59 for ten years I still don?t
know if I like it...

Per LH www.bandprob.dk - about bandtrouble

Practice is an interesting subject when you raise it with accomplished
musicians. I just came back from jazz residency at Stanford, attended Pat
Martino classes and found out that he doesn't practice any more. And he also
messed up a couple of times when showing examples - but who cares! At the
concert on Monday he didn't mess up once and that's what counts.

Phil Woods, a great alto player, was there and he doesn't practice. Bruce
Forman was there, loved his playing, but he also messed up - so did John
Stowell. Just shows they are human.

This doesn't mean that you are wrong to feel thas way about Jimmy, just
playing devil's advocate here. I was kind of surprised too to hear that when
you get on a certain level, you don't need to practice nearly as much.

Alen

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Per LH" <goto@t...> wrote:

Last question: I have just translated my site about band-troubles
into a "world-version" Do you have any ideas of which sites - for
musicians - who could be interested in linking to it?

Per,

You could start by telling us what the link is. ;-)

Cheers,
Kevin
www.TheNettles.com

jazz_guitar@... wrote:

Original Message:
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:20:22 -0700
From: "Steve Gallagher" <steveg@...>
Subject: RE: Sea Train

I don't remember jack about Sea Train.
Sounds like that ship never did set sail.

As I recall, Sea Train was a band featuring
violinist/fiddler Richard Greene and
vocalist Peter Rowan. Kind of a
bluegrass/rock/jazz fusion.

Different band. There's one from the UK that's listed loosely as "Country
Rock," which may be the band you're thinking of. The Blues Project
reincarnation as Sea Train featured flute with an octaver (whatever the devil
that thing was called in 1969). Their album(s) came out in the early 1970s,
maybe two of 'em, but didn't get any exposure... BTW, I replied to Gordon
privately so as to not get that particular thread Alisdair was so concerned
about going again. ;)

Original Message:
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:38:36 -0000
From: "Kevin" <kevinj@...>
Subject: Re: Mr. Goodchord (Was: Mick Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist)

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "David E. Lee" <dalee@c...> wrote:

At 06:56 PM 8/13/01 +0000, you wrote:

What is the system in "Mr. Goodchord's Almanac of Guitar Voice-
Leading"? Or are we talking about another variant of the Guitar
Grimoire?

Mick has worked out an exhaustive system of voice leading chords.
By exhaustive, I mean for 3, 4, quatral and 9th voicings of chords in
all possible possibilities without doubling voices. He has worked out
a huge listing of chords based on given formulae...

Okay, so it sounds like we're looking at a Guitar Grimoire kind of
approach: computer-generated voicings based on some chord formulas.
This reminds me of college buddy of mine who was appalled at the
number of formulae most of his colleagues were memorizing. "Dude,
just memorize the basic formulae and _generate_ the other formulae."

That's my personal approach. There's no way I'm going to be able to
memorize a phone directory's worth of chord voicings. MY BRAIN IS
TOO SMALL. *<:o) This is my biggest beef with Ted Greene's Chord
Chemistry and with the Guitar Grimoire series.

But I can memorize a set of formulae and run harmonized scales using
the chords of choice and I can move chord changes with voice-leading
in any direction I choose using chord formulae and knowing where
notes are on the strings. That's relatively easy. For example,
three inversions of a triad on strings 1-3 and three inversions of a
triad on strings 2-4, knowing the scale degrees of each triad and
then knowing the individual notes on strings 1-4 is much less stuff
to memorize than all the notes of all the triads on all four strings.

Absolutely. All scales can be found within particular shapes (hand positions)
of chords. While Chord Chemistry has a generally different aim, this idea is
touched upon. I found that book intimidating (as do most) when I first picked
it up, but from some of the shapes I've learned from it over the years, I found
a lot of what you're talking about and that's essentially what I base my solo
guitar fingerstyle work on/in. Well, the left hand, anyway. ;)

Ted has another book I'm told is the exact revelation we're looking for in the
process you're talking about. This book is called Jazz Guitar Single Note
Soloing by Ted Greene. It's on backorder from Amazon, but activemusician.com
has it for a few $ more, and they don't SAY it's on backorder. :) I'm still
waiting for my copy (sometime between Sept. 6-26 <sigh>), but someone I trust
implicitly to know tells me it will become my new guitar Bible... We'll see.

Origianl Message:
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 03:42:26 -0000
From: "Paul Erlich" <paul@...>
Subject: Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., "Rick" <e_goosenberg@f...> wrote:

I was looking at the recent issue of Downbeat with its awards for
players of the year. I was surprised and disappointed that Jimmy
Bruno didn't make the list of either Top Guitarists or "Players
Deserving Wider Recognition" (or something like that). Scofield and
Frisell were tied in the first category, and Kurt Rosenwinkel was
first in the second group, but no sign of Bruno. Any thoughts? Is
it because he spends so much time in Philly? Is it a personality
thing?

Rick

Maybe he's too traditional -- not innovative enough (guessing based
on the names that did make it).

And, too fast & loose... (see below)

Original Message:
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lan Mosher <ceolan@...>
Subject: Re: Jimmy Bruno and Downbeat

Say Hey!!

I noticed Jimmy's omission too and I wonder what these critics are thinking.
My issues is burried in the pile here, but Jimmy ought to be near the top.

<snip>

Great players who have passed on or retired are
omitted, but I still listen to them.

Absolutely! :) One must experience "the source." ;)

Let's hear from others. I was truly astonished that Jimmy wasn't on the
list. He does it all. Great fire and chops, and, fortunately, musical
sense to say something. I've heard others with great chops that bore you
after one set, but not Jimmy.

I finally heard Jimmy Bruno playing Anthropology about 750 bpm faster than
Charlie Parker played it. While he certainly has chops out the wazoo, the song
did nothing for me, the tempo making it nearly impossible for the listener to
follow, for over nine minutes worth... That's not only my opinion, but also my
wife's who is an avid listener with excellent taste, IMO. Perhaps, that's why
he didn't make "the list." I believe that's also why Lenny Breau didn't become
more widely known and is now known only amongst "serious" guitarists. Lenny
said he didn't care about becoming rich and famous, he just wanted to be
remembered for his innovations. Well, that's exactly what has happened. Not
that he played too fast all the time, but some of his stuff was just downright
bizarre. So was he, I hear. :) I don't know what Jimmy's aspirations are,
but I'm not hearing anything "new" per se, just a lot of speed and weird
chordal licks. Tsk, tsk... ;)

OTOH, I downloaded Pat Martino's teaser of Stone Blue from his new album and
was equally disappointed that it was basically a too-slow mechanical rif that
resembled Eddie Harris' Freedom Jazz Dance WAY too much, yet not nearly as
hip. These recordings don't have 1/10 the originality of say, a Larry Carlton
CD and he's not especially my favorite, just a good example of creative
approach.

Before we get into a "you wish you could play like that" trip, let me say that
while there are beboppers that can play stuff Lenny or Larry couldn't or
wouldn't, there's also stuff they did/do that beboppers can't or won't do,
either. It's a matter of where one chooses to put their time and ideology, and
again, that's a matter of desire, highly subjective. Tasty playing may be
found, regardless. I doubt one could create a list of greats in any particular
order that anyone else would agree was 100% correct...

Regards,
...z


Chaos, panic & disorder - my work here is done.

-- =---Seek the truth, speak the truth!---= --

L.G. "Zeek" Duff
WHAT!Productions!
Blue Wall Studio
303.485.9438
ICQ#35974686

Jack, I agree that Jimmy's views can be a bit "black and
white," (eg. sweep picking,) but for my money he is right on
the money when it comes to keeping it simple. I completely
agree with his outlook that there are only really 3 chords
and scales, everything else is just a variation or extension
of those. That is how I see it also, I cannot possibly get
into the "dorian minor started from the seventh degree of
the scale a half step above" concept. Sure I can play that
way, but I sure don't "think" that way. Jimmy's opinions on
simplicity with scales and chords is refreshing.

Steve

I have seen and taken numerous classes with jimmy and his
approach and view is soo black and white and offensive to me

anyone else agree??

hit me back!

-jack

That's the one. Have fun.
David

I have enjoyed and still enjoy Jimmy's playing and teaching a lot. BUT I
agree with you regarding the comments about Pat Metheny. I rate Pat Metheny
highly and I saw him in Leeds last year with the Trio tour. It was brilliant!
What a player in many styles!

Best Regards

Vernon Fuller
St Helens
UK

I too have a Ted Greene book that to this day remains unopened to a large degree. It was a huge nut to crack and I never got a foothold. Mick's book on the other hand has a logic to it and even in small doses unlocks many mysteries.
I remember on another group the subject of voice leading was brought up. Most guitarists conceded that pianists could voice lead in ways that guitarists would never be able to do.
I am convinced that there will be a new generation of guitarists that will introduce possibilities and sounds to the vocabulary of jazz guitar and they will be of the post goodrick generation. The more I hear from Mick and his students the more I'm tempted to compare him as the Bill Evans of guitar.
It's a big leap, I can't deal with it everyday, but I came to mick about a year ago and asked him to help me break the wall of what to do to with a tired chord bag and he passed a formula on to me and said figure it out. This is not robot work, it's a way to envision 4 part movement the way Bach and classical composers did (do). Some of it reminds me of Shillingers voice leading that Roland Wiggins turned me onto years ago, some of it goes back to 16th century counterpoint and Mick's angle is to make it a part of the real time improvisors toolbox.
By the way, it's not limited to guitarists, the beauty of his nomenclature is all this material is translatable to any instrument(s) and some nice compositional tools are also imbedded in this book, which, by the way, is only volume 1 of 3.
Yikes, and I hope this answers some questions.
David

At 11:43 PM 8/13/01 +0000, you wrote:

By the way, anyone knows any
record of Mick Goodrick playing standards?

Not anything comprised soully of that, but he has recorded many standards in various settings over the years. As far as introductions, his live intros are exquisite compositions that cleverly allude to the piece but stand on their own right. I might be able to find you one or two, you'll have to cover postage though. Write to me off list if it's of interest to you. He did put together a project wherein he recorded two channel renditions of A-Z tunes from the real book. It was an extensive project done quite a few years ago for his students. When I asked him about it, he asked me not to distribute them, and maybe go as far as to make them disappear. There is a pandora's box of copyright issues in that one. But in answer to your question,he did once cover the standards repertoire in that way.
David

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Lan Mosher wrote:

Let's hear from others. I was truly astonished that Jimmy wasn't on the
list. He does it all.

I'm not familiar w/a lot of the players on the list, since I've just
started listening to jazz guitar players (I was always a horn gal), but I
saw Russell Malone play last week here in NYC and he was really smoking.
The rhythm section was tight and swung really hard, and Russell was really
amazing, he played standards, some orginals and an old Isley Brothers
tune. I was sitting at a table w/these two guys I didn't know -- turned
out they were young musicians whot traveled up from Philly just for this
gig -- and we just kept shaking our heads in amazement. Really good show.

Best,
Lynn

While I think most of your points are well taken (and I tend to
agree), I don't know that dissing any jazz guitar guy is appropriate
for this list. On the other hand, Jimmy is a guy who has really had
to discover his own approach to music and I really respect him for
that. Of course, calling a CD "Midnight Blue" - I don't know about
that...

-Jim

--- In jazz_guitar@y..., jazzgtr85@a... wrote:

I have seen and taken numerous classes with jimmy and his approach

and view

is soo black and white and offensive to me. His views on pat

metheny made me

want to scream! Jimmy Bruno feels threatened by the thought of

music at a

new level. I used to love him..... then i just started to see a

lot of

shallowness in his playing. Im sorry if im being to blunt here...

but these

are my feelings. His technique has suffered greatly also... i

asked what he

prctices to keep in shape... he replied " well, i dont feel the

need to

practice anymore". It was really evident when he was showing us

scales. He

would also play an exercise as fast as he could just to impress the

class.

He kept messing up! Not everyone is perfect, but thats why theres

practice!

anyone else agree??

hit me back!

-jack

Can anyone recommend a couple good recordings by Dave Liebman.
I'm new to him.
I just discovered 2 really great recordings by Horace Silver:
In Pursuit of The 27th Man, and Silver and Voices. Just thought
I'd spread the word.
Mark

I decided I dont get out enough to know who the
current greats are (never
even heard Jimmy Bruno), but here's a few mainsay's
for me (some are
dead, so you cant see them live anytime soon):

Paul Bollenbeck
Kurt Rosen-twinkie (couldnt resist)
Lenny Breau
Steve Topping
Bruce Arnold
Django
Wes (obviously)
Pat My-weenie (sorry)
Wayne Krantz
Larry Carlton
Mark Elf
Joe Diorio

I could go on for too long , so...

ALSO:
What is the Key that Stella by Starlight is usually
played in, as I have
it in 2 or 3 different keys and am now confused.??>>..

-MARK

re:jazz guitar sound >> hollow bodies have beautiful
sound,solid bodies are more consistant in
performance(different sized rooms etc.)and what about this
new classical term discreetly amplified. All my guitars(big
body,acoustic,electric)are all the same scale. Per LH you
mention tone/vol. Your amp has tone contols(why strangle the
beautiful tone with tone controls on your guitar). I have a
stratocaster(6) and a schecter(7) solid bodies.For a
strat(7) it's the same thing that someone was talking about
the other day on a gibson big body-having to get a second
morgage(at least from the fender custom shop).

When I first rewired my strat I tryed 3 volumes add out(no
tone, no pickup selecters,.001 caps on the vol. pots-treble
bleed).It's like three color crayons that work with each
other or against each other. Now I use two
humbuckers(seymore duncan jazz & jeff beck-bridge) two
volumes,no tones & out(the volume pots work with and against
each other-if you cut one all the way off you also cut off
the other pickup).Newer strats are already humbucker routed
and Warmouth guitars(spelling??) makes custom pickguard
covers for strats. The amp controls are the main color
crayon set. I was playing a club and another guitarist reset
my amp settings.He had the the mids cut way down & bass much
higher than treble.The thing that surprised me was the
difference cutting the mids can make for a jazz sound. I've
tryed transtubes but now have two fender hot rod all tube
amps. An upright bass player I was working with had a
beautiful sounding all tube amp set-up and helped me
remember. I've tryed graphic equalizers on my big body but
they seem to rob so much tone that I'd rather deal with the
feedback problems. >> Ross

I'm wondering if anyone out there has considered using Vox amps for
jazz guitar performance. I have a Vox Cambridge that I use for
practice and small gigs for my archtop and it really produces a nice
clean tone that rings both warm and clear for the p90 pickups on my
archtop. I've considered getting a larger Vox like the AC30. I'm
wondering if anyone has had any experience using these. The
Cambridge, by the way, is a hybrid amp with a single valve that
provides tube sound for the clean and distorted channels. I often
have to admit that I like the character of my sound through this amp
more than through my Fender tube amp, a DeVille, particularly when it
comes to my p90 equipped archtop.