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On 11/18/2010 6:16 PM, rperry19 wrote:

Learning these licks has opened up my playing. But, I feel that you have to have a foundation of scales and arpeggios to allow you to take this information to new levels.

I agree with this. Licks are creative examples of how other musicians apply what it is that they know - some are, of course, more useful than others. When one can actually find them written, and so speed up that process, it's a good thing. The Charlie Parker Omnibook is a great example of this. In the end, all things lead to better music.

best,
Bobby

I disagree with the statement that licks aren't of great value. I have learned all of the scales and arpeggios that you should know and I use them all the time. They are the basis of my playing.

However, I want some things in my playing that are ..what I'll call classical. The sounds you are supposed to hear from a jazz guitar player. Licks help me to achieve this.

Here is a link to a great series of jazz/blues licks from a college professor that I have worked on.



He has ten licks that I feel are very useful..Why??.... I am a big fan of Howard Roberts, and he used a lot of jazz/blues licks in his playing, and I want to also be able to do that. Also, the licks when learned...open up tons of other licks based upon the original ones that I have learned.

I also recommend Frank Vignola's "50 Jazz Licks You Must Know" from anglefire. Some of these are also on You-Tube.

Here is a referrence:

Also look at, David Bakers "How To Play Be-Bop" as another source of licks that will provide a classic sound. He has about more than 300 licks that were taken from actual Be-Bop recordings.

I have also worked with Wolf Marshall's 100 Jazz licks book.

Working these licks has greatly increased my ability to produce a sound that has a lot of classical jazz phrases.

Learning these licks has opened up my playing. But, I feel that you have to have a foundation of scales and arpeggios to allow you to take this information to new levels.

I can now create licks "on the fly" that give me the sound I am looking for.

I spend a portion of every practice time adding and playing licks. I then immediately take the new licks into the songs I am working on to see how they work.

My "sound" has improved immensely since I started this about a year ago.

Ron

--- In jazz_guitar@..., JVegaTrio@... wrote:

Welcome, I think you may enjoy hanging out here, and participating, too. I look forward to hearing some of your stuff. I've been playing guitar "professionally" for about 35 years, and nobody's ever asked for "Home On the Range", ...

Juan,

I was at a Joe Pass concert and someone requested "Red River Valley".
He played the head in a corny country way and then played the crap out of it for several minutes. Wish they had recorded that.

Steve

I've used some lick books over the years, but I don't think any of it ever crept into my playing.

On the other hand ...

One of my teachers, Steve Erquiaga, had me write out licks. I think there were some rules (this was quite a few years ago, so I don't recall it clearly), mainly that the downbeats had to be in the chord or scale and the upbeats could be anything. Or something like that.

Anyway, I wrote out a handful of them one week. I still use one of them.

I also use a couple of licks I learned from teachers. And a few from records.

But, for some reason, I don't think I use any lick I ever learned from a book.

Anyway, the point is that I've spent lots of time with things that didn't seem to get into my playing and reading licks out of books is one them. Maybe if my memory was better, I'd have gotten more out of that sort of thing.

If I had to recommend a book anyway, I think it would be one of Lenny Niehaus'. Not a guitarist tho.

I found Martin Taylor's Guitar Method from Mel Bay publications very good.

Although I don't have the ability to get through the whole lot, I've found that there's some very powerful concepts in there and a couple of nice blues chord melody ditties which with a bit of practice you can use as a base for some fun improv.

Dan

From: jazz_guitar@... [mailto:jazz_guitar@...] On
Behalf Of Dave Woods
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 10:06
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: [jazz_guitar] I just cleaned up "The Diminished 7th Chord





In my endless task of cleaning up my files so that someone in their right
mind can understand what I'm trying to say, I've cleaned up and hopefully re
focused "The Diminished 7th Chord".



Dave Woods

On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:11 AM, dphidt wrote:

A similar exercise that I was turned on to combines both the arps
and scale fragments.

That's so cool you have a teacher. A real luxury. The idea sounds
interesting and I'll give it some time.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

On the subject of licks, I agree they aren't that useful. I felt that
concepts were more useful along with knowledge of scales arps and
chord extensions. Time spent thrashing around in these will yield
your own licks that will just occur to you as you hear rhythms and
changes. It's ugly, but there aint no shortcuts. Spend some time with
Dave at



Lots of good stuff there starting w/left hand right hand, much good
solid info and great tracks to help process the insights.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome David. You landed in a good spot. Let us know how you are
doing. I'm pretty much a wannabe too and interested in chord melody
too. `know about 99centguitarlessons.com? Go there and click on jazz,
never mind here's the link



go to the btm of the page and click on the utube link. It's mostly
beginner and intermediate stuff. It's video lessons w/printed
material i.e. charts usually, sometimes practice tracks they live on
your hard drive and you cannot beat the price anywhere. The .99 is a
come on but there really are lessons for that but the good stuff
starts at 3.99 up to about 24.99 for longer more involved stuff. The
vids feel like having your great jazzer uncle come over and show your
stuff. Check out the class on Summer Time in block chords. Pretty
nice. And it pushed me to figure out some alternative changes in some
places. He keeps using the same device over three eight bar sections.
I figure he's trying to keep it simple to fit into the time frame.
But these are juicy sounding chords not just minors and dominants. If
the first four bars don't grab you try a different class there are
tons aimed at expanding chord knowledge as well as soloing. And no
it's not my Dad, I'm as old as he is. Just think it's a good deal.

I grew up in a farm environment too. Dairy, Germans, those folks know
what to do with dairy products! yeeoowwww. But I have read diet for a
small planet forty years ago and today it is even more relevant. The
way we do agribiddniss is a danger to global security. Really.

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

A similar exercise that I was turned on to combines both the arps and scale fragments. The main goal of the exercise was the concept of forward motion. Hal Galper has a book called "Forward Motion" as well. I haven't read the book, but an instructor of mine gave me this exercise to explore the "forward motion" concept.

Anyway, the exercise is pretty easy to grasp. I'll go over the patterns first, then the timing. The timing is key to get the forward motion concept.

Pattern(s):
Ascending starting note:
Essentially go up w/ a 4 note arpeggio, then go descend w/ a 4 note scale fragment. So in G major, that would be (arp) G, B, D, F# (scale) E, D, C, B. Then go up a note in the scale, in this case A, and play the arp then scale. This repeats until you run out of notes in that position. To descend, the process is reversed.

So in the key of G, you get:

(G Maj7) G, B, D, F#, E, D, C, B
(A min7) A, C, E, G, F#, E, D, C
(B min7) B, D, F#, A, G, F#, E, D
(C Maj7) C, E, G, B, A, G, F#, E
(D7 ) D, F#, A, C, B, A, G, F#
(E min7) E, G, B, D, C, B, A, G
(F# min7b5) F#, A, C, E, D, C, B, A

Descending starting note:
Play descending arp, then ascending scale fragment. Starting on the G on the high E string, the pattern would be: (arp) G, E, C, A, (scale) B, C, D, E. The next note for the arp would be F#, etc. This pattern continues all the way back down to the low E string.

Now for the rhythm/timing. The exercise is played w/ straight eighths. There are two timings to practice. The first is to start the exercise on the and of 3 (i.e. 3 + ). Also, you tap your foot on beats 1 and 3. So, you could think of it as playing 16th notes in 2/4 and starting on the "e" of 2. The second variation is to start on the and of 4 (i.e. 4 + ).

Once the whole exercise is under your fingers and in your ear, try playing it starting on the beat. It feels totally different and doesn't have the motion component to it that the other timings do.

This exercise can be extended to cover other positions/chords/scales as well. I haven't tried it w/ diminished or whole tone scales yet. That might be something to try in the near future.

I usually use this exercise as a warm up and speed study. It is a bit more interesting than just running scales.

Have fun with it.

-- Mike V.

The link sends me to se-games.vipik.ru !

-Keith

In my endless task of cleaning up my files so that someone in their right
mind can understand what I'm trying to say, I've cleaned up and hopefully re
focused "The Diminished 7th Chord".







Dave Woods

I can't say too much about Jazz licks books because I've never found them particularly useful, perhaps others have.

I prefer to get a book that has complete solos over standard tunes. If you are just starting out Frank Vignola has a number of these books (with CDs) with easier solos. Robert Conti (at robertconti.com) has a series of DVDs called Ticket to Improv that are good as well. But make sure you know your major scales and at least the Dorian, Mixolydian and Ionian modes/arpeggios beforehand. Otherwise, these books won't be a true learning experience that can be applied to other tunes.

Regarding Chord Melody, the Barry Galbraith books are excellent and the Robert Yelin books are good but more advanced/complex.

Good Luck and welcome aboard,

Rob

Luciano,

Hi there. I am a beginner in JG (been working hard at it for two years now). I
have been using the following to books amongs others:

MASTERING JAZZ GUITAR CHORD / MELODY - Jody Fisher
JAZZ LICKS ENCYCLOPEDIA - Jody Fisher

Hope this helps and good luck,
?
Mark Cassidy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Juan, I played a solo jazz guitar gig where they loved my playing,
but their biggest requests were for some Roy Rogers songs. It was at a
private residence and they produced the sheet music, so I needed to come
up with chord melodies on the spot. I don't recall too much about the
night after that, except that they tipped me a couple hundred dollars!
David, if one of those Greenes is Ted, you know just how good a Tele can
sound playing jazz. He's brilliant.
Scott Dercks


On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:30:49 -0500 (EST) JVegaTrio@... writes:

Hey David,

Welcome, I think you may enjoy hanging out here, and participating,
too. I look forward to hearing some of your stuff. I've been
playing guitar "professionally" for about 35 years, and nobody's
ever asked for "Home On the Range", but, I could probably get
through it, and in a chord melody, to boot... :{)

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega


Hi all I'm new to the forum and JAZZ guitar and should introduce
myself at this time.
... well basically I'm in my 47th year and I stink at jazz guitar
and don't even have a proper Jazz guitar yet..I use an old beat-up
wore Tele style but I'm slowly getting some sweet jazz parts down.
I've been studying enough to do a couple nice chord melodies and
tough chord progressions.
My favourite guitar players are all who play one...and two guys
named Greene

I'm looking for a good practise schedule now.
Here are my list of standards I've chose....

Standards List

-Satin Doll

-Green Sleeves

-Home on the range


Thanks David

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Moms Asked to Return to School
Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify.

I'm looking for recommended books on jazz licks and chord melody.


-----------

Les Wise's "Jazz Solos"
Ron Eschete "Chord Melody Phrases"






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey David,

Welcome, I think you may enjoy hanging out here, and participating, too. I look forward to hearing some of your stuff. I've been playing guitar "professionally" for about 35 years, and nobody's ever asked for "Home On the Range", but, I could probably get through it, and in a chord melody, to boot... :{)

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega

Hi all I'm new to the forum and JAZZ guitar and should introduce myself at this time.
... well basically I'm in my 47th year and I stink at jazz guitar and don't even have a proper Jazz guitar yet..I use an old beat-up wore Tele style but I'm slowly getting some sweet jazz parts down. I've been studying enough to do a couple nice chord melodies and tough chord progressions.
I always could improvise blues and rock in a kinda of wild abandonment that mosttimes works but I can't always reproduce it.

That is why I love chord Melody stuff because it forces me to keep the music flow the same way ...current listening to The Cole Porter Songbook Volume one with Ella Fitzgerald ..top notch stuff!

My favourite guitar players are all who play one...and two guys named Greene

I believe music has just two styles... good or bad.

Technically I need a lot of work before I can gig as a solo jazzman..I'll post something soon ...this is my goal.
I'll try to live up to the great work and insights of this site.
John Amato's site ()
has been very helpful..and I enjoy your playing John.

I'm looking for a good practise schedule now.
Here are my list of standards I've chose....

Standards List

-Satin Doll

-Green Sleeves

-Home on the range

-Moon Light in Vermont

-Shenandoah

-Love me Tender

-Sunny

-Sleep Walk

-What a Wonderful World

-Stella in the Starlight

Thanks David

OK for all those who also enjoy a good steak once in awhile too...I'm kidding ...you could prove quitting dairy re-leaves the pain right now..but you can not if you don't try and its risk free!

I have nothing against farmers as I was one.(that is why I started playing country guitar... living on the farm)

BTW some of my joint pain has returned as I've slowly slipped here and there and now have the cream in my coffee and the odd buttered bread toast etc ..HOLD the cheese, but its real hard thing to stop...just like coffee!

But I'll also guarantee you'll feel better in fact after three days you'll notice something going on.
That's all I got.

BTW I'm new to the forum and JAZZ guitar and should introduce myself
and I'll do so elsewhere...ASAP

I'm glad we had a talk...please post if you do try it.


David .....the Non-Dairy guy

Hi, Couldn't you just take the audio output from your computer and run it
right into the JamMan?
It would be "in real time", but it seems that should work.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:12:26 -0000 "john" <deanwork2003@...>
writes:

Thanks Robert!

I will try it out tonight. That sounds very easy to me since I
already have Audacity.

john

Not sure it is the easiest way but I use Audacity to create .wav

(MS format) that can be imported in the the Jam Manager. In BB I
use the create wav tool to create either a wav or mp3 recording.
The BB wav file, I think, is a raw sample format that is not the
same as the MS .wav format so Jam Manager doesn't recoginize the
file. I then start Audacity and load the BB wav or mp3. In
Audacity I use "export" and save as .wav (MS).

Robert

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