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Hi Folks, I’m about to enter the lottery for JMT permit aiming for a start date from 8/11-8/20. I just found out there are only two trailheads with Donohue Pass. Are they the only ones for JMT through hike? Or I missed something?? Thanks!
Jingbo
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You are not missing anything,? if?you want to hike the "classic" southbound JMT out of Yosemite to Whitney.
Around the time the lottery moved to Recreation.gov they "simplified" the JMT permitting process, and eliminated?options which used to exist for using Sunrise as a starting point. And somewhere else, was it Cathedral? I forget. And Glacier Point instead of Happy Isles.
That said,
If you want to go "NOBO" you get different permits, I believe from Inyo NF.
If you want to take an "alternate" route exiting Yosemite on a pass other than Donahue, e.g. to avoid crowds, do something off the beaten path, or more easily secure a permit with timing that works for you, there are?alternatives!
aaron
Hi Folks,I’m about to enter the lottery for JMT permit aiming for a start date from 8/11-8/20. I just found out there are only two trailheads with Donohue Pass. Are they the only ones for JMT through hike? Or I missed something?? Thanks!
Jingbo
-- ? aaron.ximm@...? ? ? 83% happy ?? 9% disgusted ?? 6% fearful ?? 2% angry
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Thank you for clarifying this! ?
You are not missing anything,? if?you want to hike the "classic" southbound JMT out of Yosemite to Whitney.
Around the time the lottery moved to Recreation.gov they "simplified" the JMT permitting process, and eliminated?options which used to exist for using Sunrise as a starting point. And somewhere else, was it Cathedral? I forget. And Glacier Point instead of Happy Isles.
That said,
If you want to go "NOBO" you get different permits, I believe from Inyo NF.
If you want to take an "alternate" route exiting Yosemite on a pass other than Donahue, e.g. to avoid crowds, do something off the beaten path, or more easily secure a permit with timing that works for you, there are?alternatives!
aaron
Hi Folks,I’m about to enter the lottery for JMT permit aiming for a start date from 8/11-8/20. I just found out there are only two trailheads with Donohue Pass. Are they the only ones for JMT through hike? Or I missed something?? Thanks!
Jingbo
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? aaron.ximm@...? ? ? 83% happy ?? 9% disgusted ?? 6% fearful ?? 2% angry
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Correct - there used to be five options and they were consolidated to two in the past couple years. Not sure why, but those are the two options now available for a Donohue Pass exit.?
There are other exits from Yosemite if you have trouble getting a permit, but would mean missing a bit of the JMT (but on equally beautiful trails).
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On 16 Feb 2024, at 12:02?pm, Jingbo Ni <jnistargazer@...> wrote:
?Hi Folks, I’m about to enter the lottery for JMT permit aiming for a start date from 8/11-8/20. I just found out there are only two trailheads with Donohue Pass. Are they the only ones for JMT through hike? Or I missed something?? Thanks!
Jingbo
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You can get a permit to Whitney Portal and exit Yosemite via Isberg Pass at the south end of the park, then make your way over to the JMT by Devil'sPostpile.
Another alternative is the Mono/Parker Pass permit from a trailhead near Tioga Pass.? You exit Yosmite there, skirt the eastern side of the park and join up with the JMT south of Yosemite.
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The easier permit is to enter at Rush Creek and go South and flip-flop (another permit) and go North from Rush Creek.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 at 06:33, steve herr via <groundhogsteve= [email protected]> wrote: You can get a permit to Whitney Portal and exit Yosemite via Isberg Pass at the south end of the park, then make your way over to the JMT by Devil'sPostpile.
Another alternative is the Mono/Parker Pass permit from a trailhead near Tioga Pass.? You exit Yosmite there, skirt the eastern side of the park and join up with the JMT south of Yosemite.
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They are the only ones that allow exit from Yosemite on the Trail itself.? They are not the only ones that provide access to the trail within the Park and south of the Park, connecting by routes other than Donohue Pass.
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As many here already know, I think far too much is made of adhering to the present route of the JMT.? The orginal idea of the trail was a "High Mountain Route" along the Crest from Yosemite to the south, not necessarily even including Whitney.? The JMT was the iteration of that idea as undertaken in 1915, but assumed many forms before and since.? Walter A Starr adopted the Parker Pass route as? one of 4 "Alternative Routes" in the second or third edition of Starr's Guide, and Theodore Soomons explored and proposed Isberg Pass with Starr, Sr. as a candidate for the route in 1897.? In 1935, reviewing Starr's first edition, Joseph N Leconte identified Tuolumne Meadows as the start of the trail, as did Ranger Lewis Clark in 1953 in the first Yosemite Trail guide specifically endorsed by Park officials.?
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I agree with these points. ?The obsession some have over starting at happy isles for example really misses the point of a long hike. ?I do think there is a middle approach, however. The JMT is often a gateway trail for novice backpackers. ?As such, a well trod footpath offers comfort and lessens the anxiety that new hikers may experience using alternates. ?Staying on “the highway” may be the only psychologically suitable option for those hikers. ?A suitable alternative approach can be found in flip flops, loop hikes or entrance/ exit trailhead combinations other than the traditional start to finish trailheads. ?
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On Feb 17, 2024, at 8:40?AM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
?As many here already know, I think far too much is made of adhering to the present route of the JMT.? The orginal idea of the trail was a "High Mountain Route" along the Crest from Yosemite to the south, not necessarily even including Whitney.? The JMT was the iteration of that idea as undertaken in 1915, but assumed many forms before and since.? Walter A Starr adopted the Parker Pass route as? one of 4 "Alternative Routes" in the second or third edition of Starr's Guide, and Theodore Soomons explored and proposed Isberg Pass with Starr, Sr. as a candidate for the route in 1897.? In 1935, reviewing Starr's first edition, Joseph N Leconte identified Tuolumne Meadows as the start of the trail, as did Ranger Lewis Clark in 1953 in the first Yosemite Trail guide specifically endorsed by Park officials.?
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On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:37?PM, Tom Kennefick via groups.io <tomkennefick@...> wrote:
? I agree with these points. ?The obsession some have over starting at happy isles for example really misses the point of a long hike. ?I do think there is a middle approach, however. The JMT is often a gateway trail for novice backpackers. ?As such, a well trod footpath offers comfort and lessens the anxiety that new hikers may experience using alternates. ?Staying on “the highway” may be the only psychologically suitable option for those hikers. ?A suitable alternative approach can be found in flip flops, loop hikes or entrance/ exit trailhead combinations other than the traditional start to finish trailheads. ? On Feb 17, 2024, at 8:40?AM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
?As many here already know, I think far too much is made of adhering to the present route of the JMT.? The orginal idea of the trail was a "High Mountain Route" along the Crest from Yosemite to the south, not necessarily even including Whitney.? The JMT was the iteration of that idea as undertaken in 1915, but assumed many forms before and since.? Walter A Starr adopted the Parker Pass route as? one of 4 "Alternative Routes" in the second or third edition of Starr's Guide, and Theodore Soomons explored and proposed Isberg Pass with Starr, Sr. as a candidate for the route in 1897.? In 1935, reviewing Starr's first edition, Joseph N Leconte identified Tuolumne Meadows as the start of the trail, as did Ranger Lewis Clark in 1953 in the first Yosemite Trail guide specifically endorsed by Park officials.?
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I always get a little concerned when anyone suggests that the Trail is any safer or more suitable for beginners because the tread is well defined and easy to discern.? This is the last thing you want to rely on, it at all.? In the same category is the fact that it is often crowded. In many palces and at many times you will find it is neither.? And it only takes one. These are both absolutely false and irresponsible factors to rely on, particularly for a novice.? People have been lost and died who left the trail only long enough and far enough to tafe a leak.? If you have skills and confidence to? responsibly follow the JMT from? Happy Isles to Red's Meadow, many other routes are well within your capabilities.
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Having only done two sections of the JMT - Tuolumne to Reds, and Duck pass to Kearsearge pass - I don't think the JMT is easy. I found it more challenging than the northernmost 200 miles of the CDT through Montana, and the Tahoe Rim Trail. The JMT was substantially more physically challenging than either of those hikes. Also more beautiful, by a long mile. I didn't find it crowded either, and I usually do 3 day backpacks in Alaska where I will see no one, or maybe one other party in 3 days time. The popular lake campsites always have people, but it never ever felt crowded to me.
I will keep trying for the permit out of Happy isles, because it's an amazing trail. It's not easy to piece together logistics to do alternatives in the Sierra without a car or time spent hitching or in towns. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know of a month long hike somewhere! I also am sensitive to altitude, so going NOBO is probably not ever going to be the best option for me. I also think it would be pretty jarring to walk off the trail and into Yosemite valley! whereas starting there you get to leave it all behind you.
Lots of reasons people want to do the "actual" JMT, as people think of it today. Of course social media plays into it to a large degree. As here we are on a social media forum dedicated to it! Y'all get to guess the photo location.
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There is reliable bus transport Eastern Sierra and Yarts will get you to yosemite valley and down 395 which should cover the whole thing. ?Will need to hitch or hire a shuttle to the trailheads off 395. Overall pretty easy logistics. ?I do think NOBO creates acclimatization challenges unless you start at KM and even then you go up pretty fast. ?I agree that the JMT is physically challenging.
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On Feb 18, 2024, at 11:07?AM, Granola <kljensen64@...> wrote:
? Having only done two sections of the JMT - Tuolumne to Reds, and Duck pass to Kearsearge pass - I don't think the JMT is easy. I found it more challenging than the northernmost 200 miles of the CDT through Montana, and the Tahoe Rim Trail. The JMT was substantially more physically challenging than either of those hikes. Also more beautiful, by a long mile. I didn't find it crowded either, and I usually do 3 day backpacks in Alaska where I will see no one, or maybe one other party in 3 days time. The popular lake campsites always have people, but it never ever felt crowded to me.
I will keep trying for the permit out of Happy isles, because it's an amazing trail. It's not easy to piece together logistics to do alternatives in the Sierra without a car or time spent hitching or in towns. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know of a month long hike somewhere! I also am sensitive to altitude, so going NOBO is probably not ever going to be the best option for me. I also think it would be pretty jarring to walk off the trail and into Yosemite valley! whereas starting there you get to leave it all behind you.
Lots of reasons people want to do the "actual" JMT, as people think of it today. Of course social media plays into it to a large degree. As here we are on a social media forum dedicated to it! Y'all get to guess the photo location.
<67C0AB49-6D5C-41CC-BCD6-C8F216B6787C.jpeg>
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Question about the alt starting trailheads (including NOBO):? do you need to get a separate permit to go up Whitney?? Where/how do you get it?? and Do you have to specify your exit trailhead and date on the unofficial starting points that don't go over Donahue??
Judy McGuire
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Coming from west (Crabtree Meadows, Guitar Lake) you need the extra Whitney exit permit only if you want to go eastward beyond Trail Crest (i. e. to Whitney Portal). The trail to the summit (marked in red)t is outside Whitney Zone (left of the blue border).
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Henning
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 15:34 Uhr
Von:?"judithsmcguire" <judithsmcguire@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
Question about the alt starting trailheads (including NOBO):? do you need to get a separate permit to go up Whitney?? Where/how do you get it?? and Do you have to specify your exit trailhead and date on the unofficial starting points that don't go over Donahue??
Judy McGuire
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SOBO folks always come from west. Does that mean they must get a Whitney Zone permit in addition to their Yosemite Donohue exiting permits? When I did HST one and half years ago I don’t remember I need a Whitney permit. But I didn’t camp inside Whitney Zone though.
Coming from west (Crabtree Meadows, Guitar Lake) you need the extra Whitney exit permit only if you want to go eastward beyond Trail Crest (i. e. to Whitney Portal). The trail to the summit (marked in red)t is outside Whitney Zone (left of the blue border).
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Henning
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 15:34 Uhr
Von:?"judithsmcguire" < judithsmcguire@...>
An:? [email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
Question about the alt starting trailheads (including NOBO):? do you need to get a separate permit to go up Whitney?? Where/how do you get it?? and Do you have to specify your exit trailhead and date on the unofficial starting points that don't go over Donahue??
Judy McGuire
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AFAIK only the two Donohue exit permits from Happy Isles and Lyell Canyon include the Whitney Zone permit automatically. Other starting trailheads don't. In 2022 I hiked from VVR to Whitney Portal and had to select the Whitney exit option on the permit, which was easily available at the time (June).
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You need a permit in Whitney Zone even for dayhiking.
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Henning
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 17:54 Uhr
Von:?"Jingbo Ni" <jnistargazer@...>
An:[email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
SOBO folks always come from west. Does that mean they must get a Whitney Zone permit in addition to their Yosemite Donohue exiting permits? When I did HST one and half years ago I don’t remember I need a Whitney permit. But I didn’t camp inside Whitney Zone though.
Coming from west (Crabtree Meadows, Guitar Lake) you need the extra Whitney exit permit only if you want to go eastward beyond Trail Crest (i. e. to Whitney Portal). The trail to the summit (marked in red)t is outside Whitney Zone (left of the blue border).
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Henning
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 15:34 Uhr
Von:?"judithsmcguire" < judithsmcguire@...>
An:? [email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
Question about the alt starting trailheads (including NOBO):? do you need to get a separate permit to go up Whitney?? Where/how do you get it?? and Do you have to specify your exit trailhead and date on the unofficial starting points that don't go over Donahue??
Judy McGuire
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AFAIK only the two Donohue exit permits from Happy Isles and Lyell Canyon include the Whitney Zone permit automatically. Other starting trailheads don't. In 2022 I hiked from VVR to Whitney Portal and had to select the Whitney exit option on the permit, which was easily available at the time (June).
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You need a permit in Whitney Zone even for dayhiking.
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Henning
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Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 17:54 Uhr
Von:?"Jingbo Ni" < jnistargazer@...>
An:? [email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
SOBO folks always come from west. Does that mean they must get a Whitney Zone permit in addition to their Yosemite Donohue exiting permits? When I did HST one and half years ago I don’t remember I need a Whitney permit. But I didn’t camp inside Whitney Zone though.
?
Coming from west (Crabtree Meadows, Guitar Lake) you need the extra Whitney exit permit only if you want to go eastward beyond Trail Crest (i. e. to Whitney Portal). The trail to the summit (marked in red)t is outside Whitney Zone (left of the blue border).
?
Henning
?
?
?
?
Gesendet:?Montag, 19. Februar 2024 um 15:34 Uhr
Von:?"judithsmcguire" < judithsmcguire@...>
An:? [email protected]
Betreff:?Re: [JMT-groups.io] JMT permitting trailheads in Yosemite
Question about the alt starting trailheads (including NOBO):? do you need to get a separate permit to go up Whitney?? Where/how do you get it?? and Do you have to specify your exit trailhead and date on the unofficial starting points that don't go over Donahue??
Judy McGuire
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Attached are two illustrations that were made from John Ladd's annual Sierra hiker survey that I do not believe have been previously released. I'm supplying them "as is" at this point. I believe that they are mostly accurate.
John asked me to review entry/exit data for JMT users and create graphics. John & I have not visited these data or graphics for about
two years. If John sees this (I hope he does!), he may have some additional thoughts and cautions to offer.?
The purpose of these illustrations is to help provide backpackers some perspective on how various JMT hikers enter and exit various trailheads. These illustrations come from hiker data from years 2016 through 2020. Truth be told, while a majority of users actually
hike the traditional JMT, there are a great?number of other backpackers who take alternate entries/exits, particularly if their goal is to complete the JMT over several years.
Personally, on my family's first JMT attempt during the high snow year of 2017, we started at Happy Isles and bailed at Tuolumne Meadow. Our permit had us starting at the end of June and about the time that we hit 9000', there was deep snow for which we weren't
adequately prepared. In 2018, my younger son and I couldn't get a Donohue Pass permit, so we started on the Parker Pass trail to the east of TM, and joined the JMT proper at Thousand Island Lake on our second day. Did we complete the JMT? Technically, no.
Do I care? A little, but I'm happier to have had the wonderful experience in the Sierras than properly "doing" the JMT. It was the best, most difficult backpacking trip of my life - and I'd do something like it again in a heartbeat!
Get out there and backpack, no matter where you enter or exit! HYOH!!!
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Cool data presentation, Tim!
Certainly clarifies how the traffic flows on the JMT, and perhaps the underutilisation of alternate trailheads.?
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On 20 Feb 2024, at 9:43?am, Tim Mulholland <tim@...> wrote:
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Attached are two illustrations that were made from John Ladd's annual Sierra hiker survey that I do not believe have been previously released. I'm supplying them "as is" at this point. I believe that they are mostly accurate.
John asked me to review entry/exit data for JMT users and create graphics. John & I have not visited these data or graphics for about
two years. If John sees this (I hope he does!), he may have some additional thoughts and cautions to offer.?
The purpose of these illustrations is to help provide backpackers some perspective on how various JMT hikers enter and exit various trailheads. These illustrations come from hiker data from years 2016 through 2020. Truth be told, while a majority of users actually
hike the traditional JMT, there are a great?number of other backpackers who take alternate entries/exits, particularly if their goal is to complete the JMT over several years.
Personally, on my family's first JMT attempt during the high snow year of 2017, we started at Happy Isles and bailed at Tuolumne Meadow. Our permit had us starting at the end of June and about the time that we hit 9000', there was deep snow for which we weren't
adequately prepared. In 2018, my younger son and I couldn't get a Donohue Pass permit, so we started on the Parker Pass trail to the east of TM, and joined the JMT proper at Thousand Island Lake on our second day. Did we complete the JMT? Technically, no.
Do I care? A little, but I'm happier to have had the wonderful experience in the Sierras than properly "doing" the JMT. It was the best, most difficult backpacking trip of my life - and I'd do something like it again in a heartbeat!
Get out there and backpack, no matter where you enter or exit! HYOH!!!
<JMT SOBO 2016 2020.jpg> <JMT NOBO 2016 2020.jpg>
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Lange Jorstad
Andrew Paisley
Granola
Henning Rech
Tim Mulholland
