On Feb 23, 2022, at 2:23 PM, Derek Koonce <derek@...> wrote:

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Nice info John. You always seem to have some great resources.

I looked at the calorie list and pork comes up high on the list. Just an FYI, avoid buying pork in CA now that they have their pork law in effect - essentially raising the cost of pork within CA.

Two Dogs

On 2/23/2022 14:15, John Ladd wrote:

If you are starting to think about food preparation and don't want to be limited to commercial Backpacker "meals" and Snickers, consider this list of ingredients listed in order of calorie density (calories per ounce). I prepared it some years ago using the USDA's much longer spreadsheet of nutritional values of thousands of foods, sorting it by calorie density and narrowing it down to high calorie density foods/ingredients that you might carry or incorporate into your DIY recipes. Includes other info such as protein. The multi-group Drive folders (recently linked in a post by Inga) contain a lot of ideas worth browsing in an organized file system. This and similar documents are? included in the folder: Some of the files there are downloadable spreadsheets to allow you to play with your own ideas.

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As you may have guessed already, this is a teaser in hopes that some of you will browse the entire well-organized files collection. I authored a number fo these documents but we have Inga Aksamit and Ryan Rankin to thanks for combining files from Facebook and the old Yahoo groups and organized them into a logical folder structure.

--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279

John, if you haven't seen the work done by "GearSkeptic", he has put together some very comprehensive food nutrition tables for backpackers.

Links are below his YouTube video here: ?

Hiker Food Chart 2.0 (Updated and Upgraded)?

On Feb 24, 2022, at 1:46 PM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:

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Very good point and often overlooked.? There are a couple techniques that address this topic of bulk density.

Reduce packaging:? at last possible stage before going in the bearbox, transfer foods to the lightest, lowest bulk package that will stand up to the rest of the journey:? commercial packaging to freezer bags to storage ziplocks to sandwich bags.? There are also pint ziplocs available that fit? the typical single dehy meal a lot better than the more common quarts.?

Put the big rocks in first:? Understand particle buyancy.? In any mix, such as rice/meat/veggies/sauce/sugar/powder, a homgeneous mix will take up the least volume, but if it is? allowed to shake, the different particle sizes will tend to separate, with the largest chunks floating to the top.? You can demonstrate this principle, called particle buoyancy or the Brazil nut effect, with a bag of trail mix or granola.? Fill a bag half full, and holding just by the top, shake or agitate it gently.? In very short order, you will see the various ingredients separate by particle size.? This separation increases volume significantly.? Re-homogenizes such mixes just before cramming them into the bear container.? Note: you can alsu use particle bouyancy ro rehydrate by cold soaking the tough stuff longer. ? Meat in particualr generall is tougher to rehydrate than say rice, or veggies.? If you make the meat in say a chicken curry the largst chunks, before cold soaking, separate the layers in the mix by agitating the bad for a minute or two, then transfer the top layer to the cold soak container.? Do the rest of it later, or not at all, to save the amount of water you have to carry while cold soaking.

If all this sounds like a lot of time and effort, dont worry: it isn't, it takes a lot longer to explain that to actually do, once you have experimented with it a bit.? Using these techinques, I have ha 12 days food in a BV 450, and 16 in a Bearikade. On both of those trips, I had feed laft over to give a way, with a dyas' worth left in the container at the end of the stretch.?

Last in / first out:? a corollary of big rocks first:? tray to pack as much as possible in reverse order of expected use: the less the load is disturbed - especially for the first few days of the trip - the more you can get in the box in reverse order, the less you will agitate the rest of it and invoke a wicked corollary to Murphy's Law: The volume of any fixed load increases with each repacking.

Pack the cylinder like a cheap cigarette.? Once the final load is almost complete, close the canister and pack it by thumping it repeatedly on its bottom, essentially dropping it repeatedly on a hard, flat, slightly padded suface, say a solid but carpeted floor, or a doormat on a patio.? Like packing cigarettes () only healthier.? I get at least an extra day this way.

High fat diet:? not only are fats more calorie dense, they are denser by bulk than most dried food, which tends to be highly porous.? I pack a lot of dishes that call for certain fats, mainly butter or olive oil. I always carry these in bulk, now using breast milk or flask bags, and add them separately when prepping a meal,preferably after cold soaking.? THis also saves fuel, btw, as fat tends to inhibit rehydrating, so if it added after soaking, it will take less heat in the water to prepare whatever mix it is going into.? Even sugars can be carried to better advantage as syrups than as granulated.? Dry granulated sugar has a lot of air between granules, which can be eliminated by just a little bit of water, which collapses the individual granules in forming syrup (or honey).? Heavy syrups like honey, have surprisingly little water content, so a very little sacrifice in weight efficiency can produce improved use of space.?