Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Hey John — Great to see a post from you! Hope you are doing well!?
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 1:54 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Elizabeth Wenk made gpx and csv files of all stream crossings and I reformatted for NoBo and SoBo PDFs. Linking document is?
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
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Indeed, welcome back John. Your input is invaluable and always on point. We'll need it this year especially, with the conditions as they are now!
Cheers, Ovi.
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:48?PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Thanks, all.
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Yeah!! Happy to have you back John!!! ?
Hear, hear. We missed you, John.?
-- "When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Hear, hear. We missed you, John.?
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Indeed, welcome back John. Your input is invaluable and always on point. We'll need it this year especially, with the conditions as they are now!
Cheers, Ovi.
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:48?PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: Thanks, all.
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Thanks, all.
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Welcome back John. Your input is always worth reading.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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-------- Original message -------- From: Andrew Paisley <andrew.paisley866@...> Date: 3/19/23 7:08 PM (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [JMT-groups.io] Welcome back John Ladd
Amen. Hope you?are doing well John. The bench in this group is deep but it’s good to have you back.? On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 5:37 PM Ger Murphy via <germurphymail= [email protected]> wrote:
I'd like to second that. So lovely to see you back online John, and so grateful for all the help, advice from the community you created? 
Geraldine.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 09:14:08 PM GMT, Jim Ringland < jtringl@...> wrote:
I note with the recent postings in the "Water Crossing in Y2023" thread that you are back on-line, John.? First time since last May. Welcome, welcome, welcome back.? -- Jim Ringland
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
Amen. Hope you?are doing well John. The bench in this group is deep but it’s good to have you back.?
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 5:37 PM Ger Murphy via <germurphymail= [email protected]> wrote:
I'd like to second that. So lovely to see you back online John, and so grateful for all the help, advice from the community you created?
Geraldine.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 09:14:08 PM GMT, Jim Ringland < jtringl@...> wrote:
I note with the recent postings in the "Water Crossing in Y2023" thread that you are back on-line, John.? First time since last May. Welcome, welcome, welcome back.? -- Jim Ringland
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Regarding the South Fork Kings, my All Trails map shows a couple of alternate crossing routes.? One well before the main crossing staying east and then another shortly before the main crossing.? I'm not sure if the latter is the same one I used last summer, but it was a good log crossing a reasonably short distance upstream.? ?It was the day after an all night and morning rainstorm in early August and the water was much higher than what it was in 2017.? ?Some had used an area downstream, but it didn't look doable by the time I got there.
A few of us who had gathered to contemplate what to do went up and located the log that another hiker had described.? It was an easy and relatively safe alternative.? The water was rushing just below the log so all, but one of the group shinnied across it.? The one who walked it was fine, but if he had slipped it would likely not have ended well.
Attached is a? photo of the main crossing looking north. It was worse than the photo even depicts.
Curt
On Sun, Mar 19, 2023, 1:57 PM John Ladd < johnladd@...> wrote: There is an alternate crossing of South Fork Kings. On the JMT, stay to east of main crossing and hike north (if southbound). Maybe the Rangers will post something. A woman died there in our laast wet year (2017?)
Headed to exit at Roads End down Woods Creak, look for a log crossing downstream from the former bridge ssitge.
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Welcome back John Ladd
I'd like to second that. So lovely to see you back online John, and so grateful for all the help, advice from the community you created?
Geraldine.
On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 09:14:08 PM GMT, Jim Ringland <jtringl@...> wrote:
I note with the recent postings in the "Water Crossing in Y2023" thread that you are back on-line, John.? First time since last May. Welcome, welcome, welcome back.? -- Jim Ringland
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Dear John, Missed you so much ! So glad to see that signature ?? Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Mar 19, 2023, at 14:02, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
?See also Steve Herr and Inga Aksamit on public transportation options
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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I note with the recent postings in the "Water Crossing in Y2023" thread that you are back on-line, John.? First time since last May. Welcome, welcome, welcome back.? -- Jim Ringland
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See also Steve Herr and Inga Aksamit on public transportation options
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
There is an alternate crossing of South Fork Kings. On the JMT, stay to east of main crossing and hike north (if southbound). Maybe the Rangers will post something. A woman died there in our laast wet year (2017?)
Headed to exit at Roads End down Woods Creak, look for a log crossing downstream from the former bridge ssitge.
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Ned Tibbits has lots of safety advice on crossings on his Facebook page
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Elizabeth Wenk made gpx and csv files of all stream crossings and I reformatted for NoBo and SoBo PDFs. Linking document is?
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John Curran Ladd
San Francisco, CA?
415-648-9279
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Adrian, Sleeping low can translate into muddy wet buggy options early in the season and in high snow year. Crossing early can be challenging when it comes to high snow as well, because there are far more crossings on your way than you can tackle early. Just not enough hours in the day and when moving slower. Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Mar 17, 2023, at 04:15, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
? Bearing in mind that sleeping low in a valley is actually colder due to temperature inversion as the dense colder air sinks and settles there… On 17 Mar 2023, at 4:24 am, Adrian <adrianlee3@...> wrote:
?"...the water rose? more than when we started."?
The "SCS" that I think most of us follow in the back country:? Sleep low (warmer), Cross early (avoid high water), Summit early (avoid thunderstorms).
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Bearing in mind that sleeping low in a valley is actually colder due to temperature inversion as the dense colder air sinks and settles there…
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On 17 Mar 2023, at 4:24 am, Adrian <adrianlee3@...> wrote:
?"...the water rose? more than when we started."?
The "SCS" that I think most of us follow in the back country:? Sleep low (warmer), Cross early (avoid high water), Summit early (avoid thunderstorms).
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Lange,
That would be sincerely appreciated if you could post the pdf.?
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On Mar 15, 2023, at 11:37 PM, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
? I provided a detailed post to the JMT FB group that summarised all the info I had regarding alternates for the big creek crossings (basically the homework I did before my July 2017 hike, supplemented with my "on trail" experiences that year). I'll see if I can pull that info into a pdf that I can share with this group.
Andrew Skurka also published a detailed guide to difficult creek crossings, with a lot of useful info and links (which also covers a lot of the info in my summary):
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 01:15:48 pm AEDT, Curt Kinchen <ptcurt@...> wrote:
I agree that this is something to pay attention to.? Safety aside, I started my trip in 2017,? August 12th and it wasn't nearly the snow year this is, but it still had a lot of snow and higher streams.? It wasn't anything too challenging, but it was enough to get your attention and I can tell you that people I met before I started that were fresh off the trail were a bit bedraggled.? It was tough for them.
Everyone should consider their own experience and skill level before jumping into any early to mid season departures.
All that said, it should be dang spectacular all season! Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year.? Wanting to go.? Having the time off .? Can kill you.? Reality.? Sorry for being realistic? ? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
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"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow.? June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter.? That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April.? Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
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"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!!? It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters.? Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th.? A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous.? I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned.? A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then.? Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass).? If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them.? If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
HI’m starting the same week and I’m bringing a 0* quilt, but I slept cold. ?I think it’ll be perfect for this time of year. ?Hope to see you out there!
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 9:16 AM, Ian Goldsmith <ian@...> wrote:
? I think it’s also worth noting that there is likely to still be snow in a lot of locations on the trail this year through the entire season. ?You likely won’t find yourself camping on snow, although it is possible, but you will be hiking through it in some of the passes for sure.
Ian On Mar 16, 2023, at 8:32 AM, C Brown via groups.io <snookpig@...> wrote:
No I think it is just right. ? you will need at least a 15 degree. ?Being cold at nite is bad. ?Early sept can go in 20s. ? On Mar 16, 2023, at 10:44, Steve H <steve@...> wrote:
?First time on JMT.? Thru-hiking NOBO beginning last week of August (2023).? ?I can borrow a Western Mountaineering Versalite (10 degree down bag).? Is this too warm for this time of year??? Thanks!?
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Will Cronan
John Ladd
Andrew Paisley
Ger Murphy
Karina Bezkrovnaia
Jim Ringland
Lange Jorstad
Mike McCormick