Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
At Inyo, we had a different permit (High trail from Agnew meadows) but when we went in person to collect, they had a no show for the trail leading to PCT and the ranger gave it to us for no extra fee.?
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On Feb 5, 2022, at 4:06 PM, Lange Jorstad via groups.io <langejorstad@...> wrote:
? Not sure about Inyo, but my Yosemite permit in 2017 was an on-the-day no-show walk up from the valley (none of which were on the full trailheads report). I was actually there to pick up a permit just to get to TM, where I had a Lyell permit, but the ranger said there were loads of no-shows due to snow and just issued me an HI-LYV permit, with HD tacked on for good measure. Might be worth a phone call to Inyo rangers to see if the same deal applies? On 6 Feb 2022, at 10:47 am, John Powell via groups.io <mejbp@...> wrote:
?Rob Brandt...you make an interesting point.? Does the no show go back into the system last minute?? Is it available to book?? Perhaps someone at the Wilderness Permit Office could answer that question.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Not sure about Inyo, but my Yosemite permit in 2017 was an on-the-day no-show walk up from the valley (none of which were on the full trailheads report). I was actually there to pick up a permit just to get to TM, where I had a Lyell permit, but the ranger said there were loads of no-shows due to snow and just issued me an HI-LYV permit, with HD tacked on for good measure. Might be worth a phone call to Inyo rangers to see if the same deal applies?
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On 6 Feb 2022, at 10:47 am, John Powell via groups.io <mejbp@...> wrote:
?Rob Brandt...you make an interesting point.? Does the no show go back into the system last minute?? Is it available to book?? Perhaps someone at the Wilderness Permit Office could answer that question.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Rob Brandt...you make an interesting point.? Does the no show go back into the system last minute?? Is it available to book?? Perhaps someone at the Wilderness Permit Office could answer that question.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
You do get $10 back when you cancel a rec.giv permit, so there's that....
On Feb 5, 2022 10:23 AM, Rick <rick@...> wrote:
I remember when your wilderness permit was obtained from
trailhead sign (sometimes a bulletin board) by simply filling it
out and depositing the copy it in the box. No fee. Times do change
and the Sierra trails are more heavily used and I agree with some
costs and restrictions, but when you try to engineer equity and
fairness into a governmental system you end up with more
regulations...red tape and a hassle for end-users.
I didn't like having to pay $10 for each lottery I entered, but I
did for 3 and like my last attempt I got a SOBO permit. So the
permit cost me $35. I am flexible with my start date and that
probably helps a great deal. My favored time is late season, but
now with the fires I am good with a July 10th start.
I feel that things are complicated enough without giving
Recreation.gov more money to spend on who knows what. Requiring
that the funds go to a specific cause just adds more
regulation...and on it goes.
I am 69 and waiting another year for a permit can be a deal
breaker. I do think that being very flexible with you start date
is the real key...and of course, I am always a party of one.
-Rick
On 2/5/2022 9:52 AM, Granola wrote:
I agree that there is no monetary incentive to
cancelling a permit once it's paid for,?if they cannot go
for?whatever reason. It's just an additional task. I would guess
most people just forget about it. And we don't know the size of
the problem.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Remember that what you get online is not a permit, it is a reservation.? You still have to get your permit either in person or by mail.? So, in theory, even if you don't cancel, that permit is unused on the start date, and the Forest/Park service knows it. What I don't know is what happens to those permits?? Are these truly "walk ups" at this point?
For example, say I get a Cottonwood Pass reservation for Aug 15 but never acquire the permit.? Does this permit become available on Aug 15 at, say, 10am?
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
I remember when your wilderness permit was obtained from
trailhead sign (sometimes a bulletin board) by simply filling it
out and depositing the copy it in the box. No fee. Times do change
and the Sierra trails are more heavily used and I agree with some
costs and restrictions, but when you try to engineer equity and
fairness into a governmental system you end up with more
regulations...red tape and a hassle for end-users.
I didn't like having to pay $10 for each lottery I entered, but I
did for 3 and like my last attempt I got a SOBO permit. So the
permit cost me $35. I am flexible with my start date and that
probably helps a great deal. My favored time is late season, but
now with the fires I am good with a July 10th start.
I feel that things are complicated enough without giving
Recreation.gov more money to spend on who knows what. Requiring
that the funds go to a specific cause just adds more
regulation...and on it goes.
I am 69 and waiting another year for a permit can be a deal
breaker. I do think that being very flexible with you start date
is the real key...and of course, I am always a party of one.
-Rick
On 2/5/2022 9:52 AM, Granola wrote:
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I agree that there is no monetary incentive to
cancelling a permit once it's paid for,?if they cannot go
for?whatever reason. It's just an additional task. I would guess
most people just forget about it. And we don't know the size of
the problem.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
I agree that there is no monetary incentive to cancelling a permit once it's paid for,?if they cannot go for?whatever reason. It's just an additional task. I would guess most people just forget about it. And we don't know the size of the problem.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Raising prices always seems like an obvious idea but becomes a barrier for those with less $, maybe not as much of a big deal for backpacking vs day hikes. (different rates for different trailheads- usually a lengthy policy item though) Making it non-refundable a bit further out (maybe 30 days) might be a better? When it’s so hard to get permits just about everyone, including me, will make a Plan A, B & C. I expect to lose permit money every year. The Sierras is way easier to get permits than the prime trails here at home in the Canadian Rockies because our numbers are so low due to designated campsites. All spots for June-Mid Sep for a few popular trails were gone within 1 hour of reservations opening
Carol
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Ravi, I agree with your point about the cost of permits being too low.? I have been guilty of not cancelling unused permits myself.??
One idea that wouldn't increase the net cost of a permit would be to substantially increase the per hiker fee but make a large portion of that fee refundable if the hiker shows up in person or the permit gets cancelled in advance.? For example,?charge a $25
per hiker fee (I think it is $6 now) and refund $19 when the hiker shows up at the permitting station, or the reservation is cancelled no later than 30 days.? Maybe refund $15 if the reservation is cancelled in 72 hours, so that there is still an incentive?to
cancel after 30 days.
This of course would only work where the hiker must show up to get their permit.
Greg
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Part of the problem is that the cost of the permit is so low and the refund is low so a lot of people cannot be bothered. I don’t have a solution other than to urge people to be considerate of other hikers. I certainly wouldn’t support the solution of
the fee being higher.?
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Part of the problem is that the cost of the permit is so low and the refund is low so a lot of people cannot be bothered. I don’t have a solution other than to urge people to be considerate of other hikers. I certainly wouldn’t support the solution of the fee being higher.?
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
I have experience with this last year. I cancelled a permit and saw the number of available permits for that trailhead, that day, immediately increase by two. So, yes, the cancelled permits do go back into the system.
Curt Kinchen wrote:
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Yes, that's a good reminder for those that do get permits and for whatever reason can't use them to cancel them as soon as possible.? It's unclear to me whether a cancellation within the two weeks prior to the permit, particularly a day or two, would be made available in the on line system?? I assume they would show up for the physical locations that are available for walk-up permits.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Yes, that's a good reminder for those that do get permits and for whatever reason can't use them to cancel them as soon as possible.? It's unclear to me whether a cancellation within the two weeks prior to the permit, particularly a day or two, would be made available in the on line system?? I assume they would show up for the physical locations that are available for walk-up permits.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 8:10 AM Heather Lee McCoy < so_calgirl@...> wrote:
I couldn’t agree with you more. The trail is by no means overcrowded. There are no shows and hikers who can’t hack it that drop off weekly.
A better system would be wonderful.
Heather McCoy
@mermaidlovesmountains
On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:25 AM, Scott <sfrake@...> wrote:
?You're probably right, especially for late season, but it's remarkable how quickly any permit that provides access to the JMT is getting taken this year. By next year you'll have to invest in specialized computer technology to have a shot at
a Cottonwood Pass permit. It's made things difficult for those trying to get permits for non-JMT trips that happen to use those trailheads. Even Taboose and Shephard are going fairly quickly! I've lived in the SF Bay Area all my life (I'm not young); you used
to "compete" with other Californians for permits for the most part, but now it's a world-wide competition.
I'd guess many of these permits will go unused, and it's unfortunate that there is no in-person walk-up procedure to allow people a chance to claim unused spots. I like the 14-day "walk-up" system, and I hope they keep it, but it would be nice if they also
had in-person as well for no-show permits.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
I couldn’t agree with you more. The trail is by no means overcrowded. There are no shows and hikers who can’t hack it that drop off weekly.
A better system would be wonderful.
Heather McCoy
@mermaidlovesmountains
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On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:25 AM, Scott <sfrake@...> wrote:
?You're probably right, especially for late season, but it's remarkable how quickly any permit that provides access to the JMT is getting taken this year. By next year you'll have to invest in specialized computer technology to have a shot at
a Cottonwood Pass permit. It's made things difficult for those trying to get permits for non-JMT trips that happen to use those trailheads. Even Taboose and Shephard are going fairly quickly! I've lived in the SF Bay Area all my life (I'm not young); you used
to "compete" with other Californians for permits for the most part, but now it's a world-wide competition.
I'd guess many of these permits will go unused, and it's unfortunate that there is no in-person walk-up procedure to allow people a chance to claim unused spots. I like the 14-day "walk-up" system, and I hope they keep it, but it would be nice if they also
had in-person as well for no-show permits.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
You're probably right, especially for late season, but it's remarkable how quickly any permit that provides access to the JMT is getting taken this year. By next year you'll have to invest in specialized computer technology to have a shot at a Cottonwood Pass permit. It's made things difficult for those trying to get permits for non-JMT trips that happen to use those trailheads. Even Taboose and Shephard are going fairly quickly! I've lived in the SF Bay Area all my life (I'm not young); you used to "compete" with other Californians for permits for the most part, but now it's a world-wide competition.
I'd guess many of these permits will go unused, and it's unfortunate that there is no in-person walk-up procedure to allow people a chance to claim unused spots. I like the 14-day "walk-up" system, and I hope they keep it, but it would be nice if they also had in-person as well for no-show permits.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
The past couple years of this new “walk up” system, I noticed that the permits offered in the two week window were often not taken up quickly. I plan to get a permit six months ahead this year but I’d probably feel comfortable making travel plans and counting on getting a permit in the two week “walk up” window. Especially later in the season.?
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I did not know there was such a thing as size 18
On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 02:47:30 PM PST, Charles Fannin <cjzilla@...> wrote:
I have a pair of Leahy hiking boots.? He is a craftsman of a high order, knows what he is doing.? Highly recommended.
(I have size 18 feet......)
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I have a pair of Leahy hiking boots.? He is a craftsman of a high order, knows what he is doing.? Highly recommended.
(I have size 18 feet......)
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Since I spend the summers on the eastern slope, I will miss the old walk up permits (note you can still do walkups in many of the wilderness areas north of Yosemite).? One thing to remember is that new reservation system for “walk-in” permits
doesn’t really allow for truly “last minute planning”.? Unless they change the procedure, last year walk-ins had to be reserved no earlier than 14 days prior to your departure date.? Not lot of flexibility there for people living on the east coast.
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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From: ravi_jmt2013
Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 6:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [JMT-groups.io] INYO walk-up permits online again this year
?
Good news for those of us who might need to tweak last minute plans but not great for locals who might feel like going backpacking one morning. I know that I’d want that option if I lived on the east side of the Sierra but I like the ability
to reserve being 3000 miles away.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Good news for those of us who might need to tweak last minute plans but not great for locals who might feel like going backpacking one morning. I know that I’d want that option if I lived on the east side of the Sierra but I like the ability to reserve being 3000 miles away.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Walk up permits will stay online forever most likely since Reservation.gov is not going to want to lose this additional revenue stream. Plus, I am sure this is easier for the rangers too.
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Lange Jorstad
John Powell
Granola
ravi_jmt2013
Charles Fannin
