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Re: Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

 

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:16 PM, Jim Ringland wrote:
There¡¯s sort of a reason why the ROD might be a scan.? The ROD is the legal enabling document for the whole plan, and the signatures are a legal part of the document.? At some point in the process, those need to be scanned.?
I am guessing that you are on to something there. The only PDFs I ever receive that are scans rather than searchable text are those coming from lawyers and occasionally corporate reports where the company does not want to make the document readily searchable (which is a red flag!).?
Re: Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I do wonder what happened.? The only documents that are not in searchable PDF form are the Record of Decision (ROD) and the Biological Opinion.? (The link to the Biological Opinion fails on the page Peter Hirst¡¯s supplied, , but that document can be found via .) ??The draft and final EIS/management plans are fine. ?All the auxiliary documents I checked were fine.?

There¡¯s sort of a reason why the ROD might be a scan.? The ROD is the legal enabling document for the whole plan, and the signatures are a legal part of the document.? At some point in the process, those need to be scanned.? It would appear that on the Tuolumne Plan, for whatever reason, they chose to just put up a scan of the whole document with the signatures rather than do some sort of composite.? I¡¯m sure all that text is in electronic form somewhere. ??Still, the Park Service managed to produce a searchable PDF for the Merced River Plan ROD () with one unsearchable scanned page tucked in that includes the signatures. ?(It¡¯s the 33rd page in the document.)? That one was 2014 as well. ?So it¡¯s not an Park Service problem as a whole.? ?Something happened with the production of the Tuolumne ROD.

?

I recall reading the Tuolumne and Merced EISs back in 2014.? My memory is that it was both were interesting and accessible.? The Tuolumne Plan was way less controversial than the Merced Plan.

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 7:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [JMT-groups.io] Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

?

Pretty pathetic that a document prepared just a few years ago had to be scanned to put it online, and no one was able to OCR it.

Sigh. Not surprising, though. I've had to educate several firms about that.
Re: Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

 

Richard, do you really think the NPS has the resources to provide up to date technology and professional development training? Good lord, look at their funding. As someone who works in the public sector, I can tell you that most of our agencies and institutions have been slashed to ribbons. Don't expect modern business practices when you pay 1996 wages and when agency funding continually fluctuates like a political football. The criticism is fair, the word "pathetic" is not.
Re: Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

 

Pretty pathetic that a document prepared just a few years ago had to be scanned to put it online, and no one was able to OCR it.

Sigh. Not surprising, though. I've had to educate several firms about that.
Re: Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 

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Wow! This group is a force. I¡¯m really moved by their journey. Thanks to them for sharing with us.

John Girot

On Oct 12, 2021, at 8:17 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

?If you want to jump forward to their most difficult day (Oct 8 cold and snowy and running short on food) use this start point.

https://youtu.be/8wvFSmEpaWQ?t=1721

Luckily the snow wasn't deep enough to drift much so they made impressive progress under difficult conditions.

--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279

Re: Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 

I think I watched up until right before that point yesterday and had to go run errands - thanks for the bookmark John!

In the closing summary they said they encountered knee-deep snow drifts on the way up Glen Pass - looked like Type 2 fun.




On Wednesday, 13 October 2021, 02:17:55 pm AEDT, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:


If you want to jump forward to their most difficult day (Oct 8 cold and snowy and running short on food) use this start point.

https://youtu.be/8wvFSmEpaWQ?t=1721

Luckily the snow wasn't deep enough to drift much so they made impressive progress under difficult conditions.

--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279

Re: Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 
Edited

If you want to jump forward to their most difficult day (Oct 8 cold and snowy and running short on food) use this start point.

https://youtu.be/8wvFSmEpaWQ?t=1721

Luckily the snow wasn't deep enough to drift too much so they made impressive progress under difficult conditions. It did drift knee deep for one stretch approaching Glen Pass but they didn't say for how long.?

--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
Re: Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 

They have been wonderful to watch. I caught some of their videos earlier in the season, when they were heading NoBo through Oregon. Splendid, warm attitudes!
Tuolumne Master Plan Info, as promised

 
Edited

Here are some interesting details from the 2014 Tuolumne River Plan, of which the Tuolumne Meadows Campground closure and reconstruction is an important part. This does not tell the whole detailed story, but it does illustrate a couple of interesting features such as what "near the JMT trailhead" might mean with respect to the new Backpackers camp location. Item No.10 includes "Formalizing" the trail connection between the campground and the JMT to the south. For the full story, find all of the operative documents at
.
The most effective way to the heart of the matter is in two documents, the "Record of Decision" which determines that "Alternative No 4" from the Plan and EIS is the plan as adopted, and then Volumes I and II of the "Tuolumne Wild and Scenic River Final Comprehensive Management Plan and Environmental Impact Statement". You can download the the whole shebang, but to avoid confusion you may read only the "Actions common to all 4 Alternatives" and "Alternative 4" materials from Chapter 8 to see what what has actually been adopted.
Some text interpreting the clip of the site plan:
10. Tuolumne Meadows campground
* Rehabilitate the campground at its current capacity; realign the A-loop road and relocate 21 campsites currently within 100 feet of the river to a location just west of the existing A-loop, more than 150 feet from the river.
*Retain campground office and day parking.
* Relocate entrance road and kiosk out of floodplain.
* Formalize John Muir Trail connection.
* Retain Elizabeth Lakes trailhead and day parking.
* Remove riprap from riverbank.
11. Existing commercial services core
* Retain store, grill, and post office; expand day parking.
*Add picnic area.
* Demolish and remove the mountaineering shop and
public fuel station, add parking.
* Upgrade restroom.
* Add trail connector to campground.
* Move concessioner employee housing to location #18.
?
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

Looks to me like we need a new thread for the general redevelopment issues.? The feedback to ESTA on transportation piece of it I think deserves its own discussion.? I will go back and get the key docs from a post I have on the JMT FB pages and provide them here in a bit.
Re: Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 

They are so inspiring! Thank you for?sharing.
Melinda

Melinda Mingus, MD
Integrative Pain Medicine
Board Certified Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine
Diplomate in Mountain Medicine DiMM
NSP Eastern Division Safety Team Supervisor
NSP CT Region Medical Advisor
646-522-1451



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 7:32 PM Michael Mineart <mvmineart@...> wrote:
I¡¯ve been following a group of three impressive women who have been doing the PCT this year , but in the last week they just completed a section of the JMT from Red¡¯s Meadow to Kearsarge Pass and posted a video of that section of their trip.? The video shows how smoke is still present on the trail, but also towards the end of the video it gives you a feel for how an early season snow storm impacts the trail.

For their age, these women are amazing considering that they have previously completed the AT and CDT, and have completed the majority of the PCT this year.? I hope I¡¯m in half as good of shape as they are when I get to their age (which is coming all to quickly¡­).

Here¡¯s a link to their latest video on YouTube of the section of the JMT they just completed: ?

Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
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Nice video of current conditions on the JMT and the impact of an early season snow

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I¡¯ve been following a group of three impressive women who have been doing the PCT this year , but in the last week they just completed a section of the JMT from Red¡¯s Meadow to Kearsarge Pass and posted a video of that section of their trip. ?The video shows how smoke is still present on the trail, but also towards the end of the video it gives you a feel for how an early season snow storm impacts the trail.

For their age, these women are amazing considering that they have previously completed the AT and CDT, and have completed the majority of the PCT this year. ?I hope I¡¯m in half as good of shape as they are when I get to their age (which is coming all to quickly¡­).

Here¡¯s a link to their latest video on YouTube of the section of the JMT they just completed: ?

Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
,_._,_
Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.
You automatically follow any topics you start or reply to.

View/Reply Online (#75070) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic

Links:
See for critical JMT planning information
See /g/JMT/editsub to adjust your delivery options (e.g. digests vs individual emails)
See /static/help for Help and FAQs
To (re)subscribe: [email protected]
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [mvmineart@...]
_._,_._,_
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

The map shows three proposed locations for the new vault toilet. If you read the text you will discover what is obvious to anyone who has visited TM in the winter. That is, that locations 2 and 3 wouldn't be used much, if at all, by winter visitors. No toilet near the hut would be a ridiculous "improvement" as people would pee and poop in poorly dug holes near the hut. Imagine how that would be each spring. So it seems highly likely that they will build it in location 1.

There is a "new restroom" near the walk-in sites. But the backpacker's campground appears to be moved to the end of what has been the A loop. There is an existing toilet there. Are there really going to be two different walk-in camping areas or are they getting rid of the current one?

Where is the master document? I couldn't find it.
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

Scroll to the bottom of the doc. There's a map with info.
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

Its all part of the same project, like the access trails (now social trails) that will be formalized between the store and campground, expnaded picnic area near store, etc.? The BP camp is in turn just a part of the larger campground project, which for some of us serves the same purpose. For example,? The Original McClure JMT Route project base-camped in Tuolumne last year
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

Huh? That's just a plan to replace the elevated plastic porta-potty that's open only in the winter with a permanent structure. It's got nothing to do with the backpacker's camp.
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

I guess I forgot the smiley. :)
My comment was mostly in jest... mostly.


BTW, there's some info on the rehabilitation:


Looks interesting. The backpacker's camp is closer to the trail, at least.
Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

I hiked up in the Olympics this summer where they have designated campgrounds along the trails that include privies.? Both are needed because the heavy undergrowth makes distributed camping much more challenging (it's not necessarily prohibited - just hard) but I do think it helps protect the environment.? I prefer distributed camping in the Sierra since I'm looking for more solitude but it does seem like privies in some of the more popular areas would be helpful.? Perhaps at least in places where they place bear boxes.
Just my humble opinion.
Martha

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On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 10:00 AM Granola <kljensen64@...> wrote:
Actually the need for a bathroom in a camping area makes perfect sense. Otherwise people will be polluting every open space. I sure wouldn't be going for a long walk at 3am. But I am also one of those people who believe that they should put in privies in the more popular camping areas along the JMT, to reduce the impact on those areas. It's a trail, and a popular one, and land managers need to plan for that instead of pretending it is some pristine wilderness. Hot topic, I know.

Re: We need to provide input to ESTA's Short Range Transit Plan

 

Actually the need for a bathroom in a camping area makes perfect sense. Otherwise people will be polluting every open space. I sure wouldn't be going for a long walk at 3am. But I am also one of those people who believe that they should put in privies in the more popular camping areas along the JMT, to reduce the impact on those areas. It's a trail, and a popular one, and land managers need to plan for that instead of pretending it is some pristine wilderness. Hot topic, I know.
Moderated Re: Two warnings about any October hikes #Conditions #permits

 

Thanks to Kim Fishburn and Tom Clark, I found these pictures from an early October snowfall in 2011. So we had snow accumulation in early October in 2015 and 2011. May happen again this weekend judging from recent weather warnings.

This is October 5, 2011 Tuolumne Meadows from the YNP page on Facebook. The accompanying text read "Our Tuolumne Meadows wilderness rangers are still up in Tuolumne Meadows and are reporting about 12 to 18 inches of snow. (Yes, this picture is from today!)?The Tioga and Glacier Point Roads remain *temporarily* closed; we're not sure how long it will take to reopen them."



To see directly on FB see?
--
John Curran Ladd
1616 Castro Street
San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707
415-648-9279
2861 - 2880 of 77906