Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
I too hiked for 7 weeks 2017.Start date July 20th. Water was the biggest problem. Feet wet everyday and every crossing knee deep or more. ( I am 5'4"). Had two dry days in August and a heat wave came and the water rose more than when we started. Be safe. Be prepared to backtrack, go upstream, wait for other people. Hike shorterdays. The snow is exhausting and makes it take longer. You do not want to slip. Consider boots with nonslip tred. Personally I like dry years much more when I can just Saunter along.?
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Anand Kumar Sankaran <anand.sankaran@...> wrote:
? Hi Lange
That would be great.? Thanks for the link to Andrew Skurka's post. On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 23:37, Lange Jorstad via <langejorstad= [email protected]> wrote: I provided a detailed post to the JMT FB group that summarised all the info I had regarding alternates for the big creek crossings (basically the homework I did before my July 2017 hike, supplemented with my "on trail" experiences that year). I'll see if I can pull that info into a pdf that I can share with this group.
Andrew Skurka also published a detailed guide to difficult creek crossings, with a lot of useful info and links (which also covers a lot of the info in my summary):
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 01:15:48 pm AEDT, Curt Kinchen < ptcurt@...> wrote:
I agree that this is something to pay attention to.? Safety aside, I started my trip in 2017,? August 12th and it wasn't nearly the snow year this is, but it still had a lot of snow and higher streams.? It wasn't anything too challenging, but it was enough to get your attention and I can tell you that people I met before I started that were fresh off the trail were a bit bedraggled.? It was tough for them.
Everyone should consider their own experience and skill level before jumping into any early to mid season departures.
All that said, it should be dang spectacular all season! Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year.? Wanting to go.? Having the time off .? Can kill you.? Reality.? Sorry for being realistic? ? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
?
"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow.? June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter.? That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April.? Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
?
"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!!? It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters.? Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th.? A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous.? I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned.? A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then.? Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass).? If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them.? If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
-- anand
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
I think it’s also worth noting that there is likely to still be snow in a lot of locations on the trail this year through the entire season. ?You likely won’t find yourself camping on snow, although it is possible, but you will be hiking through it in some of the passes for sure.
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 8:32 AM, C Brown via groups.io <snookpig@...> wrote:
No I think it is just right. ? you will need at least a 15 degree. ?Being cold at nite is bad. ?Early sept can go in 20s. ? On Mar 16, 2023, at 10:44, Steve H <steve@...> wrote:
?First time on JMT.? Thru-hiking NOBO beginning last week of August (2023).? ?I can borrow a Western Mountaineering Versalite (10 degree down bag).? Is this too warm for this time of year??? Thanks!?
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Just hope the bridges are still there once the snow melts. The first time I was on the JMT in Kings Canyon we went downstream along the Middle Fork of the Kings River. The bridge had just been replaced about a year earlier leaving the PCT, and it washed out again a few years later. Once we started down the Middle Fork the trail disappeared into the river not far downstream. Climbed up higher and found where they were constructing a new trail. I think they gave up on the bridge in Simpson Meadow which had a small fire that year.?
Kim
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
I second Larry- I switched from my Alpenlite to Versalite last year - is fantastic!? Karina Bezkrovnaia
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 08:39, Charles Rowan <Charlierowan57@...> wrote:
?I echo what others have said. I am admittedly a cold sleeper. I have an EE Revelation 20. I trust that rating, but for it to work at 20° for me, I use a silk liner and an X-Therm pad (amazing!) and wear multiple layers including my EE Torrid hoodie (also amazing) and a Smartwool beanie. I think the liner alone adds 10 degrees of warmth, not to mention it keeps the quilt much cleaner. Cozy warmth at night makes my whole next day a lot more pleasant too.?
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
I echo what others have said. I am admittedly a cold sleeper. I have an EE Revelation 20. I trust that rating, but for it to work at 20° for me, I use a silk liner and an X-Therm pad (amazing!) and wear multiple layers including my EE Torrid hoodie (also amazing) and a Smartwool beanie. I think the liner alone adds 10 degrees of warmth, not to mention it keeps the quilt much cleaner. Cozy warmth at night makes my whole next day a lot more pleasant too.?
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Hi Lange
That would be great.? Thanks for the link to Andrew Skurka's post.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 23:37, Lange Jorstad via <langejorstad= [email protected]> wrote: I provided a detailed post to the JMT FB group that summarised all the info I had regarding alternates for the big creek crossings (basically the homework I did before my July 2017 hike, supplemented with my "on trail" experiences that year). I'll see if I can pull that info into a pdf that I can share with this group.
Andrew Skurka also published a detailed guide to difficult creek crossings, with a lot of useful info and links (which also covers a lot of the info in my summary):
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 01:15:48 pm AEDT, Curt Kinchen < ptcurt@...> wrote:
I agree that this is something to pay attention to.? Safety aside, I started my trip in 2017,? August 12th and it wasn't nearly the snow year this is, but it still had a lot of snow and higher streams.? It wasn't anything too challenging, but it was enough to get your attention and I can tell you that people I met before I started that were fresh off the trail were a bit bedraggled.? It was tough for them.
Everyone should consider their own experience and skill level before jumping into any early to mid season departures.
All that said, it should be dang spectacular all season! Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year.? Wanting to go.? Having the time off .? Can kill you.? Reality.? Sorry for being realistic? ? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
?
"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow.? June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter.? That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April.? Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
?
"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!!? It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters.? Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th.? A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous.? I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned.? A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then.? Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass).? If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them.? If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
Does anyone have an opinion?between Versalite and Alpinlite?
Take the Versalite, I believe it only weighs 2.1 lbs and most 20F bags weigh more than that,
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
No I think it is just right. ? you will need at least a 15 degree. ?Being cold at nite is bad. ?Early sept can go in 20s. ?
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 10:44, Steve H <steve@...> wrote:
?First time on JMT.? Thru-hiking NOBO beginning last week of August (2023).? ?I can borrow a Western Mountaineering Versalite (10 degree down bag).? Is this too warm for this time of year??? Thanks!?
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
Take the Versalite, I believe it only weighs 2.1 lbs and most 20F bags weigh more than that,
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
I use a 0 degree quilt - of course with that it’s much easier to stick arms or legs out.
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 7:52 AM, Andrew Hamilton <andrewmichaelhamilton@...> wrote:
I'm with Ian. Better to put out a leg and an arm as radiators if you're too warm, than spend the night shivering. I did my JMT run with a 19F, and I was chilly some nights.
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
I'm with Ian. Better to put out a leg and an arm as radiators if you're too warm, than spend the night shivering. I did my JMT run with a 19F, and I was chilly some nights.
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Re: Sleeping Bag Question
Too warm is much better than too cold. ?There will be nights when you’ll be glad of it, and nights when you leave a bunch of body parts sticking out of it.
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On Mar 16, 2023, at 7:33 AM, Steve H <steve@...> wrote:
Hello.? First time doing the JMT.? Thru-hiking beginning last week of August this year (2023).? I borrow a Versalite (Western Mountaineering) 10 degree bag.? Is this going to be too warm?
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Hello.? First time doing the JMT.? Thru-hiking beginning last week of August this year (2023).? I borrow a Versalite (Western Mountaineering) 10 degree bag.? Is this going to be too warm?
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First time on JMT.? Thru-hiking NOBO beginning last week of August (2023).? ?I can borrow a Western Mountaineering Versalite (10 degree down bag).? Is this too warm for this time of year??? Thanks!?
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Re: GPS / Satellites / Topo Maps & Compass
Adrian,
That's a great, relatable story.? I owned several Lowrance units, both B&W and then the color models, before they were discontinued and I jumped to Garmin.? I volunteer to teach Map & Compass workshops to my local outdoors club, and very occasionally, we also discuss the use of GPS and now smartphone apps.
?
By the way, did you you mean UTM coords when you said UTC?
?
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
I provided a detailed post to the JMT FB group that summarised all the info I had regarding alternates for the big creek crossings (basically the homework I did before my July 2017 hike, supplemented with my "on trail" experiences that year). I'll see if I can pull that info into a pdf that I can share with this group.
Andrew Skurka also published a detailed guide to difficult creek crossings, with a lot of useful info and links (which also covers a lot of the info in my summary):
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 01:15:48 pm AEDT, Curt Kinchen <ptcurt@...> wrote:
I agree that this is something to pay attention to.? Safety aside, I started my trip in 2017,? August 12th and it wasn't nearly the snow year this is, but it still had a lot of snow and higher streams.? It wasn't anything too challenging, but it was enough to get your attention and I can tell you that people I met before I started that were fresh off the trail were a bit bedraggled.? It was tough for them.
Everyone should consider their own experience and skill level before jumping into any early to mid season departures.
All that said, it should be dang spectacular all season!
Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year.? Wanting to go.? Having the time off .? Can kill you.? Reality.? Sorry for being realistic? ? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
?
"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow.? June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter.? That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April.? Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
?
"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!!? It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters.? Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th.? A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous.? I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned.? A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then.? Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass).? If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them.? If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
I agree that this is something to pay attention to.? Safety aside, I started my trip in 2017,? August 12th and it wasn't nearly the snow year this is, but it still had a lot of snow and higher streams.? It wasn't anything too challenging, but it was enough to get your attention and I can tell you that people I met before I started that were fresh off the trail were a bit bedraggled.? It was tough for them.
Everyone should consider their own experience and skill level before jumping into any early to mid season departures.
All that said, it should be dang spectacular all season!
Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year.? Wanting to go.? Having the time off .? Can kill you.? Reality.? Sorry for being realistic? ? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
?
"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow.? June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter.? That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April.? Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
?
"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!!? It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters.? Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th.? A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous.? I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned.? A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then.? Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass).? If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them.? If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
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Re: off-line information - satellite stuff
That’s a great news! And great idea to combine the apps !
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On Mar 15, 2023, at 17:55, Derek Koonce <derek@...> wrote:
?Just got word back from OpenSummit app folks. They do have off-line information. Plus, I just tested it by putting my phone into airplane mode w/o wifi to see how the app starts up. Here is their verbage with some improvements coming... --------------------
Thanks for reaching out!
You can view forecasts offline on the OpenSummit app currently.
We are planning to combine OpenSummit and OpenSnow into one app this summer, all under OpenSnow.
Our offline forecast functionality is weaker in OpenSnow at the moment but we are planning to make improvements here so that you can view the last available forecast (from when you had service) while you are out on the trail.
Thank you so much for your support and please let us know how else we can help!
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Two Dogs
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Re: Water Crossings in Y2023
Pay attention everyone this is not a “average “ year. ?Wanting to go. ?Having the time off . ?Can kill you. ?Reality. ?Sorry for being realistic?
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On Mar 15, 2023, at 13:41, Adrian <adrianlee3@...> wrote:
? There has been some group conversation about snow levels impacting the JMT this year, but I don't recall a lot of discussion about how water crossings will be affected.? I thought the following comments from a close friend of mine might be of interest.
From Russ Veenker, Ops Leader, Life Member, Mono County Sheriff’s Search and Rescue, and 40+ year resident of June Lake.
?
"This winter has broken the record book—both in long term low temps (single digits every night; high in the upper teens daytime) AND in amounts of snow. ?June Lake gets 5-7 feet in a normal winter. ?That leaves a post storm settling of 3-4 feet November-April. ?Currently [written February 28th, before the storms of the last two weeks hit] we have had a little over 16 feet here in town, settling down to 13 feet."
?
"And now the most important thing: ?YES…Sierra water crossings this summer!! ?It gets real crazy in the back-country when we’ve had 200%+ winters. ?Spring runoff will not subside until after July 4th. ?A lot of the snow pack is not going to melt…and crossing inlet/outlets is EXTREMELY dangerous. ?I’ve recovered a lot of dead bodies of mountaineers/backpackers who punched through the snow into the creeks/streams at flood stage—swept away downstream under ice…then drowned. ?A couple of thoughts: ?Change dates…depart in mid-August if your schedule allows. ?? Outlets/inlets more defined by then. ?Also, many folks get off-route/lost due to trails being covered by snow (particularly when crossing a high pass). ?If you don’t have a GPS with recharge solar panel, you must have paper topo maps and compass (so you can plot/triangulate position), and know how to use them. ?If we know where we are, we know the direction to head toward (applicable to both route finding and our spiritual lives!)."
There are several resources that you can get to brush up on your water crossing skills.? My "go to" has been the "NOLS WIlderness Guide."? I'm sure our group members can recommend others.
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Inga
Karina Bezkrovnaia
Lange Jorstad