An interesting, and somewhat frustrating, observation I made from someone posting about backpacking plans *inside* Yosemite: they described their permit, and it was an HI-past LYV (Donohue eligible) permit! They were not leaving the park, they just applied for the wrong permit and got it. So, in addition to competing with all the hopeful JMT hikers, there is the ¡°random factor¡± accounting for some permits (albeit, likely relatively few).
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On 9 Feb 2022, at 12:45 am, Stephen Coakley via groups.io <stephen.coakley@...> wrote:
?Folks, this is my 5th year in the lottery (thru lots of changes) looking for the golden ticket for SOBO out of Happy Isles. I¡¯ll concede that every year I¡¯ve applied for probably the most popular 8-10 week stretch of the year. But I also have had a lot of scheduling flexibility so have applied for start dates over that entire period, every year for now the 5th year (and will still be applying for late July and August) start dates. Is my experience unusual? Am I particularly unlucky? Could I be doing something wrong? Now 5 years ago I was fortunate enough to do a Horseshoe Meadows to Whitney stretch which only strengthened my desire to do the JMT. And I¡¯ve also been fortunate enough to secure a NOBO permit this year after hearing - thanks to this group - that they are also now difficult to get. But I really would like that SOBO¡¯er. Any suggestions or words of encouragement?
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I believe mine is the 12th edition, but I have my eyes on a 1946
edition in "Fine" condition for $45. Just talking about makes me
want to pull the trigger it...now.
On 2/8/2022 6:00 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
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Hey Rick, good to know about your Starr's Guide.? What editiion do
you have?? The map was always more of a reference than a nav tool,
but it is pretty cool.? I have several editions, but still looking
for that map for the first.? May favorite copy is a 1943 Second
Edition. They still had blank note pages in them and the first
entry in this one is that the group arrived and camped in the
Valley one night, then first thing next morning "drove to Tuolumne
in the Model A to start the Trail".? Priceless.
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Been listening to y¡¯all so went ahead and got permits out of shepherd pass and heading north exiting Yosemite. Don¡¯t know how I¡¯m going to get to the trailhead or if I drop my car there get back to my car from Yosemite but I have 6 months to figure it out.?
I've been hiking parts of the JMT since 2015, and have never been skunked.? But I've never applied for the HI to Whitney lottery before either.? Lots of opportunities to hike the JMT, and the one I've targeted in any particular year, I've always gotten. So many experiences you've missed because you're too focused on just one thing. Hang loose. Go with it. Learn to love west side entrances :)
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Hey Rick, good to know about your Starr's Guide.? What editiion do you have?? The map was always more of a reference than a nav tool, but it is pretty cool.? I have several editions, but still looking for that map for the first.? May favorite copy is a 1943 Second Edition. They still had blank note pages in them and the first entry in this one is that the group arrived and camped in the Valley one night, then first thing next morning "drove to Tuolumne in the Model A to start the Trail".? Priceless.
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I've been hiking parts of the JMT since 2015, and have never been skunked.? But I've never applied for the HI to Whitney lottery before either.? Lots of opportunities to hike the JMT, and the one I've targeted in any particular year, I've always gotten. So many experiences you've missed because you're too focused on just one thing. Hang loose. Go with it. Learn to love west side entrances :)
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
I am not sure? I am completely comfortable? about it going to the conservancy.? I support them voluntarily, but I like to choose my charity contributions, and this one fwls too much like an opportunistic grab on their part.? They are no longer handling the reservations, but are now being paid I believe substantially more than they were when they were doing it themselves. I can't say that for sure of course, since they are not saying haow much of that $10 they are getting, but it is a fee charged by a commercial contractor and is obviously profitable, or Booz -Allen would not be doing it.? I think we are at least entitled to know how much of tat the Conservancy is getting.? Last? couple of years, there ws no charge for a 21 day rolling lottery.? Now a week costs 10$? IDTS.
If it were going to offset the actual cost of whatever it is they still do with respect to permits that would be one thing, but we don't know that.? As it some part of it goes to support other things, it should be tax deductible, and probably treated by the Conservancy as unrelated business income income. It gives me the same pause that site and eat very well for a weektheir volunteer work program does.? I have signed up twice now to volunteer to work for a week in the park, doing trail maintenance and such only to find out that they charge their "volunteers" hundreds of dollars for the privilege.? Penciled out, I can pay full price for a campsite, eat very well and hike instead of raking gravel for? a week substantially cheaper than what they would charge me to work on one of their crews for the same period.
Nope, not feeling good about this $10 charge at all.? ?
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Well said Peter.
I imagine that few JMT hikers have ever heard of (or used)
Starr's Guide. It was the definitive trail source information book
when I first came to Yosemite in the Seventies. I love Walter's
detailed descriptions of the trails and the places he traveled and
loved so much.
My copy still has the fold out map, which has become an anomaly
as many now hike with digital assistance. I carry it whenever I
remember to bring it on my hikes...
-Rick
On 2/8/2022 1:17 PM, Peter Hirst wrote:
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I wonder whether it would help to know that there IS no
official route, that the trail is largely a cultural construct.?
There is no single authority governing the trail, as there is
for example with the PCt and the AT.? In 1915, the California
State legislature began allocating funds to be spent on the
trail under the direction of the State Engineer, at the time
Wilbur McCLure.? At a meeting in June of that year attended only
by McClure, William Colby and Walter huber of the Sierra Club
and representatives of Sierra and Sequoia National Forests, it
was agreed that what the legislature meant was that McCLure was
to both decide the route of the Trail and have overall
supervision of its completion.? Mclure then joined the 1915 and
1916 Mather Mountain Party(s), sponsored and led. by Stephen
Mather, at the time the Assistant to the Secretary of the
Interiior, to begin scouting? and deciding on the Route.?
McClure filed his final report laying out the only official
route ever determined for the JMT, in November of 1917.
A number of de facto changes were made to the route, including
using Happy Isles instead of Mirror Lake and SNow Creek/Tioga
Road for the route to Tuolumne. Moving the High Trail to the
Thousand Island/Garnet/Shadow Lake route, Forester Pass,? Bear
Ridge, Senger Switchbacks, wre adopted, but there were no
further official designations - if there ever were - by the
State.? Yosemite placed its own signs and submitted mapping data
to the USGS as did the Forests and SEKI. Various guidebooks have
described variations to the route, such as at Tuolumne Meadows,
and have settled with some continuaing variation on a generally
understood route. ?
But what remains today is still subject to considerable
interpretation, and the idea of a trail growing by custom and
use rather than by government edict has become a cultural
tradition on the trail.? Starr's Guide for example has
recognized no fewer than five major "Alternative Routes" for the
trail in Yosemite alone, and Yosemite has but one trailhead sign
for it, and it is not at Happy Isles, but Lyell Canyon.? The
Park also issues 2/3 of its permits allowing following following
the trail over Donohue Pass for the Lyell trailhead.Despite
this, Elizabeth Wenk's book has become the standard guide and
best represents the cultural consensus of what is currently
considered THE John Muir Trail. "According to Wenk" could well
be taken as the "According to Hoyle" of the JMT.
All of the interpretations from McClure to Starr to Wenk
provide at least the quality and essence of the original High
Mountain Route? as it has been experienced over the past 115
years, and none is more official right now than any other.?
There are just degrees of cultural acceptance, which may be a
meaningless abstraction when compared to the actual experience
of individual interpretations and the adventure of individual
exploration and discovery.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
It is interesting to note that the permitting system for the Wonderland Trail in WA (which uses Rec.gov) has a pre-lottery window in which people register for a chance to get a permit and then those randomly selected winners are emailed and able to schedule their actual permit at a later time.
It seems that Inyo could adopt a similar system allowing everyone who wanted a permit on a particular date to register ANYTIME say from 7am to 2pm on a given date and then issue the actual permits to the lucky winners that afternoon only charging the credit cards of those actually issued the permits making the time you log in during that window a non-issue. This would be much fairer and not penalize those with slow internet connections or other obligations at 7:01am.? And apparently the system is in place at Rec.gov to do this based on the WA permits mentioned above.
Another improvement would be to offer refunds up to the last day for people cancelling permits, even if just 50%, so that people would be more encouraged to cancel permits should they not use them. I am not sure if this is the current case for Inyo, but in the past I've obtained permits on for other trails that within a few days of a trek became non-refundable.
As for scalping, since you must enter a leader's name and an alternative leader there is no way to transfer a permit to anyone but those two pre-registered folks, so I doubt very much scalping is an issue.
Ethan Gallogly
"When you see a new trail, or a footprint you do not know, follow it to the point of knowing."? - Uncheedah
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:43 PM Larry Beck via <becklaurence= [email protected]> wrote:
Do you think there is scalping going on? Is that even possible?
Byron, fees don't all go to Rec.gov though they do get part of it. The rest goes to the Yosemite Conservancy and funds projects.?
For others, yes, things are pretty bad this year and we're getting many, many reports that by 7:01 all permits are gone for the most popular trailheads. I've experienced it myself for other areas (not the JMT).?
--
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Thanks all (mostly all) for the wonderful feedback. This group always come thru. A special thanks to Peter who really opened up my mind with his thoughtful response. I¡¯m excited as ever to get out to the High Sierra and spend time wherever. Thanks again!
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On Feb 8, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
? I wonder whether it would help to know that there IS no official route, that the trail is largely a cultural construct.?
There is no single authority governing the trail, as there is for example with the PCt and the AT.? In 1915, the California State legislature began allocating funds to be spent on the trail under the direction of the State Engineer, at the time Wilbur McCLure.? At a meeting in June of that year attended only by McClure, William Colby and Walter huber of the Sierra Club and representatives of Sierra and Sequoia National Forests, it was agreed that what the legislature meant was that McCLure was to both decide the route of the Trail and have overall supervision of its completion.? Mclure then joined the 1915 and 1916 Mather Mountain Party(s), sponsored and led. by Stephen Mather, at the time the Assistant to the Secretary of the Interiior, to begin scouting? and deciding on the Route.? McClure filed his final report laying out the only official route ever determined for the JMT, in November of 1917.
A number of de facto changes were made to the route, including using Happy Isles instead of Mirror Lake and SNow Creek/Tioga Road for the route to Tuolumne. Moving the High Trail to the Thousand Island/Garnet/Shadow Lake route, Forester Pass,? Bear Ridge, Senger Switchbacks, wre adopted, but there were no further official designations - if there ever were - by the State.? Yosemite placed its own signs and submitted mapping data to the USGS as did the Forests and SEKI. Various guidebooks have described variations to the route, such as at Tuolumne Meadows, and have settled with some continuaing variation on a generally understood route. ?
But what remains today is still subject to considerable interpretation, and the idea of a trail growing by custom and use rather than by government edict has become a cultural tradition on the trail.? Starr's Guide for example has recognized no fewer than five major "Alternative Routes" for the trail in Yosemite alone, and Yosemite has but one trailhead sign for it, and it is not at Happy Isles, but Lyell Canyon.? The Park also issues 2/3 of its permits allowing following following the trail over Donohue Pass for the Lyell trailhead.Despite this, Elizabeth Wenk's book has become the standard guide and best represents the cultural consensus of what is currently considered THE John Muir Trail. "According to Wenk" could well be taken as the "According to Hoyle" of the JMT.
All of the interpretations from McClure to Starr to Wenk provide at least the quality and essence of the original High Mountain Route? as it has been experienced over the past 115 years, and none is more official right now than any other.? There are just degrees of cultural acceptance, which may be a meaningless abstraction when compared to the actual experience of individual interpretations and the adventure of individual exploration and discovery.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Do you think there is scalping going on? Is that even possible?
On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 01:53:37 PM PST, Inga <ingasadventures@...> wrote:
Byron, fees don't all go to Rec.gov though they do get part of it. The rest goes to the Yosemite Conservancy and funds projects.?
For others, yes, things are pretty bad this year and we're getting many, many reports that by 7:01 all permits are gone for the most popular trailheads. I've experienced it myself for other areas (not the JMT).?
--
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Thanks Peter for this thoughtful and beautifully written post.? I had written off the Sierras for 2022 after reading in this group and elsewhere about the difficulties others have faced in getting permits.? Now I'm reframing my goals.
--Matt
I wonder whether it would help to know that there IS no official route, that the trail is largely a cultural construct.?
There is no single authority governing the trail, as there is for example with the PCt and the AT.? In 1915, the California State legislature began allocating funds to be spent on the trail under the direction of the State Engineer, at the time Wilbur McCLure.? At a meeting in June of that year attended only by McClure, William Colby and Walter huber of the Sierra Club and representatives of Sierra and Sequoia National Forests, it was agreed that what the legislature meant was that McCLure was to both decide the route of the Trail and have overall supervision of its completion.? Mclure then joined the 1915 and 1916 Mather Mountain Party(s), sponsored and led. by Stephen Mather, at the time the Assistant to the Secretary of the Interiior, to begin scouting? and deciding on the Route.? McClure filed his final report laying out the only official route ever determined for the JMT, in November of 1917.
A number of de facto changes were made to the route, including using Happy Isles instead of Mirror Lake and SNow Creek/Tioga Road for the route to Tuolumne. Moving the High Trail to the Thousand Island/Garnet/Shadow Lake route, Forester Pass,? Bear Ridge, Senger Switchbacks, wre adopted, but there were no further official designations - if there ever were - by the State.? Yosemite placed its own signs and submitted mapping data to the USGS as did the Forests and SEKI. Various guidebooks have described variations to the route, such as at Tuolumne Meadows, and have settled with some continuaing variation on a generally understood route. ?
But what remains today is still subject to considerable interpretation, and the idea of a trail growing by custom and use rather than by government edict has become a cultural tradition on the trail.? Starr's Guide for example has recognized no fewer than five major "Alternative Routes" for the trail in Yosemite alone, and Yosemite has but one trailhead sign for it, and it is not at Happy Isles, but Lyell Canyon.? The Park also issues 2/3 of its permits allowing following following the trail over Donohue Pass for the Lyell trailhead.Despite this, Elizabeth Wenk's book has become the standard guide and best represents the cultural consensus of what is currently considered THE John Muir Trail. "According to Wenk" could well be taken as the "According to Hoyle" of the JMT.
All of the interpretations from McClure to Starr to Wenk provide at least the quality and essence of the original High Mountain Route? as it has been experienced over the past 115 years, and none is more official right now than any other.? There are just degrees of cultural acceptance, which may be a meaningless abstraction when compared to the actual experience of individual interpretations and the adventure of individual exploration and discovery.
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Re: INYO walk-up permits online again this year
Byron, fees don't all go to Rec.gov though they do get part of it. The rest goes to the Yosemite Conservancy and funds projects.?
For others, yes, things are pretty bad this year and we're getting many, many reports that by 7:01 all permits are gone for the most popular trailheads. I've experienced it myself for other areas (not the JMT).?
--
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Ravi, things have indeed changed dramatically this year. Cottonwood Pass/Lakes permits are gone instantly, and anything else that accesses the JMT go quickly as well. Even the notorious east side passes (Shephard, Taboose, Sawmill, Baxter) can disappear, though you can usually get those. Your idea of starting at Crescent Meadow is problematic since the HST is now crazy popular and those permits are instantly taken.
Peter is completely correct that one shouldn't obsess over hiking the "official" JMT. There are countless equally or more worthwhile long trips one can plan. But planning those is getting more difficult as all sorts of permits are getting more difficult to obtain.
And we should note that the OP does have a permit out of Cottonwood Pass this year. He just wants one from Yosemite instead. To him I would say you're going to enjoy going north just as much as you would going south. It doesn't matter.
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These are interesting comments. ?I am currently reading Ropper¡¯s high route book and find the early exploration and history of the Sierra fascinating. ?My personal experience is that routes off the JMT are equally spectacular and certainly less crowded. ?I particularly enjoy not dodging manure while walking. ? ?Loops can be made throughout the range with much easier logistics. ?So book a trip and go. ?Look for a cancellation or walk up to thruhike the JMT if you desire, but don¡¯t stay home and wait for next year.
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On Feb 8, 2022, at 1:18 PM, Peter Hirst <peter.p.hirst@...> wrote:
? I wonder whether it would help to know that there IS no official route, that the trail is largely a cultural construct.?
There is no single authority governing the trail, as there is for example with the PCt and the AT.? In 1915, the California State legislature began allocating funds to be spent on the trail under the direction of the State Engineer, at the time Wilbur McCLure.? At a meeting in June of that year attended only by McClure, William Colby and Walter huber of the Sierra Club and representatives of Sierra and Sequoia National Forests, it was agreed that what the legislature meant was that McCLure was to both decide the route of the Trail and have overall supervision of its completion.? Mclure then joined the 1915 and 1916 Mather Mountain Party(s), sponsored and led. by Stephen Mather, at the time the Assistant to the Secretary of the Interiior, to begin scouting? and deciding on the Route.? McClure filed his final report laying out the only official route ever determined for the JMT, in November of 1917.
A number of de facto changes were made to the route, including using Happy Isles instead of Mirror Lake and SNow Creek/Tioga Road for the route to Tuolumne. Moving the High Trail to the Thousand Island/Garnet/Shadow Lake route, Forester Pass,? Bear Ridge, Senger Switchbacks, wre adopted, but there were no further official designations - if there ever were - by the State.? Yosemite placed its own signs and submitted mapping data to the USGS as did the Forests and SEKI. Various guidebooks have described variations to the route, such as at Tuolumne Meadows, and have settled with some continuaing variation on a generally understood route. ?
But what remains today is still subject to considerable interpretation, and the idea of a trail growing by custom and use rather than by government edict has become a cultural tradition on the trail.? Starr's Guide for example has recognized no fewer than five major "Alternative Routes" for the trail in Yosemite alone, and Yosemite has but one trailhead sign for it, and it is not at Happy Isles, but Lyell Canyon.? The Park also issues 2/3 of its permits allowing following following the trail over Donohue Pass for the Lyell trailhead.Despite this, Elizabeth Wenk's book has become the standard guide and best represents the cultural consensus of what is currently considered THE John Muir Trail. "According to Wenk" could well be taken as the "According to Hoyle" of the JMT.
All of the interpretations from McClure to Starr to Wenk provide at least the quality and essence of the original High Mountain Route? as it has been experienced over the past 115 years, and none is more official right now than any other.? There are just degrees of cultural acceptance, which may be a meaningless abstraction when compared to the actual experience of individual interpretations and the adventure of individual exploration and discovery.
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Not certain who is looking for a permit, but there is a single permit open out of Red Cones on 8/6 and 8/8.? 18 permits open up tomorrow for 8/9.? Just be on the computer at 7:00 a.m. PST.? Assuming you want to do a flip flop going south
to north from Rush Creek TH first then flipping back to Rush Creek to go SOBO, you will have to get back on the computer in a couple of days (figure 5 days to hike to Happy Isle, get back to June Lake, resupply and get back on the trail) to get your SOBO permits.?
Have all of your campsites figure out before you get on the computer.? If you can get a permit with an Exit Whitney designation, don¡¯t despair, hike to Crabtree or Guitar Lake, summit Whitney and exit either Kearsarge Pass, Cottonwood Lakes or Pass or the
Westside.? The permitting is a pain but it is well worth it.? Good luck. ?
?
Sent from for Windows
?
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From: Curt Kinchen
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 11:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [JMT-groups.io] Lottery frustrations
?
I did a similar option in 2017.? Of course, things have changed, but I would definitely try for a Lyell canyon start.? I got mine as a walk up then, as my plan B.? Plan A, which I had in advance, was a permit for Mono/Parker Pass.? I've
not done it, but it appears a fine alternative to Donahue Pass.? I don't feel like I didn't really no the JMT even though I skipped the Happy Isles to TM portion.? I had done Half Dome as a day hike a few years earlier, so only the HD intersection to TM is
what I missed.
?
You're not out of luck, but you'll need to be persistent! You have two options: walk-up permits or cancellations.
I got a walk-up permit from Happy Isles in 2016. I had actually reserved a permit from an alternative trailhead and was planning to meet up with the JMT farther down the trail, but I checked for a walk-up when I arrived and I got lucky. This is a fairly risky
option, especially if you don't have a backup plan.
The other option, like other posters mentioned, is to pick up someone else's canceled permit. My dad was able to get a permit this way last year after losing the lottery. It requires some persistence -- canceled permits will show up on the permit availability
report, so you need to open the permit website every day and refresh it, hoping to see an available permit for your trailhead and date. It looks like the application has moved to
this year so there might be some differences, but I imagine the overall process is pretty much the same. If you're persistent and a little flexible with dates you'll almost definitely be able get a permit this way... but you'll have to be
very persistent. (I actually quite like the JMT permit process for this reason. If someone?really wants a permit there's a way to get one even after losing the lottery.)
One more thing -- I'd consider starting from Lyell Canyon as well. Obviously take a Happy Isles permit if you can get one, but you'll increase your chances if you consider both trailheads. If you get Lyell Canyon, I'd recommend getting to Yosemite a couple
days early and then you can do some of the Happy Isles section separately -- for example, the iconic first few miles from Happy Isles and Cathedral Lakes (from Tuolumne Meadows) can be done as day hikes, and Clouds Rest can be done as a long day hike or a
one-night trip from a less competitive trailhead. This way you still get to experience the entire JMT, plus you get the benefit of doing it with a lighter pack. That said, even if you miss the Happy Isles to Tuolumne Meadows section entirely, the rest of the
JMT obviously still worth it!
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I wonder whether it would help to know that there IS no official route, that the trail is largely a cultural construct.?
There is no single authority governing the trail, as there is for example with the PCt and the AT.? In 1915, the California State legislature began allocating funds to be spent on the trail under the direction of the State Engineer, at the time Wilbur McCLure.? At a meeting in June of that year attended only by McClure, William Colby and Walter huber of the Sierra Club and representatives of Sierra and Sequoia National Forests, it was agreed that what the legislature meant was that McCLure was to both decide the route of the Trail and have overall supervision of its completion.? Mclure then joined the 1915 and 1916 Mather Mountain Party(s), sponsored and led. by Stephen Mather, at the time the Assistant to the Secretary of the Interiior, to begin scouting? and deciding on the Route.? McClure filed his final report laying out the only official route ever determined for the JMT, in November of 1917.
A number of de facto changes were made to the route, including using Happy Isles instead of Mirror Lake and SNow Creek/Tioga Road for the route to Tuolumne. Moving the High Trail to the Thousand Island/Garnet/Shadow Lake route, Forester Pass,? Bear Ridge, Senger Switchbacks, wre adopted, but there were no further official designations - if there ever were - by the State.? Yosemite placed its own signs and submitted mapping data to the USGS as did the Forests and SEKI. Various guidebooks have described variations to the route, such as at Tuolumne Meadows, and have settled with some continuaing variation on a generally understood route. ?
But what remains today is still subject to considerable interpretation, and the idea of a trail growing by custom and use rather than by government edict has become a cultural tradition on the trail.? Starr's Guide for example has recognized no fewer than five major "Alternative Routes" for the trail in Yosemite alone, and Yosemite has but one trailhead sign for it, and it is not at Happy Isles, but Lyell Canyon.? The Park also issues 2/3 of its permits allowing following following the trail over Donohue Pass for the Lyell trailhead.Despite this, Elizabeth Wenk's book has become the standard guide and best represents the cultural consensus of what is currently considered THE John Muir Trail. "According to Wenk" could well be taken as the "According to Hoyle" of the JMT.
All of the interpretations from McClure to Starr to Wenk provide at least the quality and essence of the original High Mountain Route? as it has been experienced over the past 115 years, and none is more official right now than any other.? There are just degrees of cultural acceptance, which may be a meaningless abstraction when compared to the actual experience of individual interpretations and the adventure of individual exploration and discovery.
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Hi Steve?
Please try at 7am tomorrow for Aug 9th. You will find it. Also, there are a lot of cancellations within the last two weeks as well.?
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On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Steve Perry <perry240@...> wrote:
? Frustrated - Even Rush Creek TH is completely booked for July and the first week of August.? On Feb 8, 2022, at 2:48 PM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 11:56 AM, Peter Hirst wrote:
People sacrifice and forego this experience, sometimes for years for an idea of the thing, but? missing the thing in and of itself.? If you can seek your own High Mountain Route, and let go of the specific - and in some ways mediocre? - idea of it that became the JMT, you need not wait.
I couldn't agree more strongly with this. I totally get the desire to do the official route - I felt that way on my first JMT in 2013 and obsessively stuck to the trail and it was a great experience. But my subsequent trips, none of which have included 100% of the official JMT, have been equally great and it some cases better because the alternates are always less crowded. I think this really clicked for me the most in 2016 when I was going NOBO and resupplied at VVR. Rather than rejoining the JMT at the end of the lake, I went over Goodale Pass. I hiked for several hours on that day without encountering another hiker. As soon as I rejoined the JMT, I encountered literally dozens of southbound hikers within the first hour.? I've redefined my goal for any long distance hike to be "a continuous set of footprints" rather than "official trail" and haven't regretted it.
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Frustrated - Even Rush Creek TH is completely booked for July and the first week of August.?
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On Feb 8, 2022, at 2:48 PM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
?On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 11:56 AM, Peter Hirst wrote:
People sacrifice and forego this experience, sometimes for years for an idea of the thing, but? missing the thing in and of itself.? If you can seek your own High Mountain Route, and let go of the specific - and in some ways mediocre? - idea of it that became the JMT, you need not wait.
I couldn't agree more strongly with this. I totally get the desire to do the official route - I felt that way on my first JMT in 2013 and obsessively stuck to the trail and it was a great experience. But my subsequent trips, none of which have included 100% of the official JMT, have been equally great and it some cases better because the alternates are always less crowded. I think this really clicked for me the most in 2016 when I was going NOBO and resupplied at VVR. Rather than rejoining the JMT at the end of the lake, I went over Goodale Pass. I hiked for several hours on that day without encountering another hiker. As soon as I rejoined the JMT, I encountered literally dozens of southbound hikers within the first hour.? I've redefined my goal for any long distance hike to be "a continuous set of footprints" rather than "official trail" and haven't regretted it.
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On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 11:56 AM, Peter Hirst wrote:
People sacrifice and forego this experience, sometimes for years for an idea of the thing, but? missing the thing in and of itself.? If you can seek your own High Mountain Route, and let go of the specific - and in some ways mediocre? - idea of it that became the JMT, you need not wait.
I couldn't agree more strongly with this. I totally get the desire to do the official route - I felt that way on my first JMT in 2013 and obsessively stuck to the trail and it was a great experience. But my subsequent trips, none of which have included 100% of the official JMT, have been equally great and it some cases better because the alternates are always less crowded. I think this really clicked for me the most in 2016 when I was going NOBO and resupplied at VVR. Rather than rejoining the JMT at the end of the lake, I went over Goodale Pass. I hiked for several hours on that day without encountering another hiker. As soon as I rejoined the JMT, I encountered literally dozens of southbound hikers within the first hour.? I've redefined my goal for any long distance hike to be "a continuous set of footprints" rather than "official trail" and haven't regretted it.
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I loved what Peter Hirst wrote!
Thank you!
I have only done JMT Nobo all 3 times. Because I didn¡¯t wanted to deal with then mostly free lottery.
Now this year I COULD NOT get Cottonwood Pass.
Lakes yes, but I do know what it could mean over NAP. So didn't get lakes.
I was ready for permit drop logged and all - it was insane the error that was created on Recreation- ¡°error too many have the item in their carts¡±
It never happened before- I think it is largely due to the fact that going South is no longer ¡°Golden¡± due to $, Tuolumne restoration etc etc and more people know about it not realizing that you really need to acclimate and not everyone would be fit to hit Whitney day 3.
I always have a blast in our more private group mail here vs FB.
Thank you!
Karina
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Lange Jorstad
Andrew Paisley
Matt Moran
Inga
Steve Perry
ravi_jmt2013
Karina Bezkrovnaia