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Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
Re: night time bathroom trips - I¡¯m usually backpacking with others and always encourage everyone to take a whistle when they step out at night after one companion got disoriented and spent a few hours waiting until light to find her tent. Luckily it was a warm night and she was smart enough to sit down rather than wander. Reflective guidelines, as John mentioned, and/or a phone left on flashlight mode in the tent are other good options.? Martha On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 6:10 AM Melinda Mingus <mmingus@...> wrote:
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Martha Gilmore, PhD, CGP, FAGPA . Please excuse brevity and typographical errors. |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
These are all really good points. And, it seems to affect day hikers more frequently.? This email thread reminds me of Stephen King's novel "The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon". She gets lost after going off trail to go to the bathroom. It's a great read and not a long book.? Melinda Integrative Pain Medicine Board Certified Anesthesiology and Pain Medicine Diplomate in Mountain Medicine DiMM NSP Eastern Division Safety Team Supervisor NSP CT Region Medical Advisor 646-522-1451 On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 8:26 AM ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote: Two other points of caution that come to mind which might seem silly but I think are important:? |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
Two other points of caution that come to mind which might seem silly but I think are important:?
1) The story of?Geraldine Largay demonstrates that even a short trip off trail for a toilet stop can be hazardous. I believe she did not leave her gear on the trail before going into the woods, so loss of gear was not a factor in her death, but I see people leaving packs on the side of the trail all the time before the go into the woods for a toilet stop. I think this is a bad idea - not only can animals get into the pack but if one gets lost getting back to the trail, then the gear is lost too and chances for survival go down. 2) Make sure to know where you are and where your tent is when going out in the middle of the night. I have reflective guylines on my tent and scope out appropriate toilet areas while there is daylight to make sure I am oriented if/when I have to venture out at night. I had a bad experience many years ago getting lost for about five minutes and not locating my tent at night, obviously with no gear or insulation, etc.? Both of these hazards are more relevant in wooded areas where it is very easy to get disoriented. |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I've never been badly lost, only temporarily turned around, so hard for me to say I'd do better than this gentleman. There are things I would do differently however. First, I'd never abandon any bit of my gear, like trekking poles or my pack. Just about anything you have with you can be useful and there are other ways to leave signs for searchers. Second, I always have fire starter and matches. If the only fire tool he had with him was something he didn't know how to use, it's just dead weight. Know that you can actually start a fire with what you have on you. Third, if I were lost and hit an actual dirt road, I'd stay on it. Unless it's a completely abandoned road, which this wasn't, then clearly it leads somewhere and people use it. At least you're not in thick brush or on a cliff. I can see leaving it to get water, but otherwise it's a pretty good place to try finding your way out. I'll still hike alone, but even on a day hike, you need enough gear to protect yourself in the worst case. I've actually started carrying my inReach, something I never used to do except for backpacking. But as I and my friends get older, it seems like a reasonable precaution if you can afford it. Having done a couple of section hikes on the JMT, I could totally see how someone could get lost on it, especially if you want to remote camp away from the trail. While there are plenty of people on it, it's also not hard to find solitude, which I was happy to find, but also made me aware that it's still remote and you need to bring your noggin along on the hike. |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
A key point indeed, John, and it has a broader fundamental lesson.? We often read of people assuming or even advising that some lesser level of navigational skill or equipment is sufficient for the JMT because it is so well marked or so visible.? You are going to camp at least 100 feet from it; you are going to poop at least 200 feet from it, and if you have any curiosity at all about the region your are traveling through you will explore far beyond those limits.? Knowing where the trail is when you are on it is not the same thing as knowing where you are when you are not. Geraldine Largay died within two miles of the Appalachian Trail a few weeks after getting lost on a potty stop. ? |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýJohn,This is very good advice. ?I have made this mistake myself more than once. ?For safety, I carry a small ¡°survival¡± kit. ?I have Gaia GPS on my phone. In groups we carry two way radios. ?In the last two years I have taken up mushroom foraging. ?This involves off trail nose to ground walking in circles. ?I have learned to look in 4 directions take a compass reading, memorize landmarks, slope, direction of sun, shadows and estimate distance and direction to the car before I search an area. ?I repeat this process each time I move to a new area. ? On trail I practice a less intense version of the same. ?I study distant peaks and try and predict where the trail is going based on the topography.. These are fun mental games that build essential skills over time. ?I often imagine John Muir covering vast distances cross country alone. ?His orienteering skills must have been off the charts On Sep 24, 2021, at 9:48 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
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Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMy first experience in backpacking was in Portola redwoods state park in the Bay Area. This was after a few years of long day hikes. Our leader had about ten plus years of backpacking experience and he is a Scout parent who accompanies scouts for many hikes a year.?It was a gear shakedown hike before we did a thousand island, Ediza lake loop. Our campground at Portola was only 4.5 miles away, but for some weird reason, we decided to approach in the reverse direction of the loop.? We had a paper map, compass and the works. However, we quickly went off trail onto another trail. After about 3 miles, we had questions and started to look at the compass and figure out where we were. We thought we knew exactly where we were and headed in the right direction. The direction was correct but we had strayed away into Butano state park (which was further away in the same direction).? After about 4 miles, we reached a fire road that had a large map on a board. This was the road that separated Butano and Portola parks. We didn¡¯t realize it at the time and it didn¡¯t register that we were off course. We continued further for a couple of miles and realized our expected turnoffs weren¡¯t there.? For two of us, it was the first backpacking trip and I¡¯m sure we would have panicked. But since we had our experienced leader, we traced back to the fire road, took off our packs. Rested a bit and then compared our paper maps and the signboard. We finally realized we had gone a mile past our turnoff and we were in a trail that was concentric to our original trail but leading us farther away.? We had about 45 minutes of light. We abandoned our original plan and took the fire road back to where we started, based on finally knowing exactly where we were.? We reached the trailhead and park headquarters at about 8pm (this was August ). The caretaker had a good laugh and said he would treat us as ¡°walk-ins¡± and let us stay at the bike packers campground.? It was hilarious after the fact how comically lost we were.? I bought AllTrails pro the next day and I download offline maps for every hike I go since then. A Garmin Inreach followed shortly thereafter.? This was the hike.? AllTrails also failed us twice on the HST, maybe I will write about it later. On one day, we did panic because we were losing light and were tired.? I now carry a water filter, a small stove, a small fuel canister and extra food for almost all day hikes. The only hikes I didn¡¯t carry was on Pleasanton ridge - and yet that¡¯s where Philip Kreycik went missing and died recently. This has shaken me pretty badly.? On Sep 25, 2021, at 5:09 AM, ravi_jmt2013 <ravi@...> wrote:
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Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I think that any day hike beyond a very short distance should be undertaken with enough to survive an unplanned night out. This doesn¡¯t have to weigh very much, at least in the warmer months of the year. I always carry some upper body insulation (down parka), good rain gear, and an emergency blanket along with some extra food. Often I even carry my tent since it is very lightweight. As a solo hiker, it¡¯s even more important. Injury can happen at any time, as can getting lost.?
It¡¯s crazy how getting off trail can be very disorienting. On the Foothills trail in South Carolina, I got off the trail for a toilet stop at a bend in the trail, and when I got back on trail I went the opposite direction, back where I came from, until intersecting a familiar trailhead a couple miles later. In a heavily forested landscape, not paying attention, my sense of direction failed me badly.? |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
We have all made mistakes, so I don't think it is disrespectful to identify the mistakes here and to learn from them
I'd say this is the key passage of the SF Chron article: "... he fell off the trail and slid perhaps two to three body lengths down a steep grade. He could have attempted to scramble back up the loose rock, but opted for what seemed like an easier tack. He angled along the steep face and walked parallel with the trail, thinking he could intersect it." And therefore the key lesson of this story: Even with a well-travelled trail, it is really, really dangerous to try to angle back to your trail after you'd lost it. For example, the JMT is heavily travelled but if you happened to be dead reckoning back, you might well cross it at a place where yo don't see it (e.g., granite). So you think the trail is still ahead of you when it is now actually behind you. This is an even bigger mistake on a trail that comes in and out of visibility, as was the case here So, for me, the key lesson here is> There is noting wrong about losing a trail via a fall or just a wrong turn. Happens all the time. You do make a mistake if you don't promptly return to your last known point where you were, for sure, on the trail. Even if you have to cut back a substantial distance.? Never, never try to intersect a trail that you strayed from. Admit your mistake, turn around, and retrace your steps. -- John Curran Ladd 1616 Castro Street San Francisco, CA? 94114-3707 415-648-9279 |
Re: Yosemite permits on recreation.gov
On Topic: Talk about impact! The eighteenth annual YOSEMITE FACELIFT? is occurring this week! Over one million pounds of debris was hauled out during the first ten years of this volunteer campaign to RESTORE? and RETAIN THE GLORY OF THE YOSEMITE! Sponsored by the National Park Service and the Yosemite Climbing Association. Irresponsible behavior by humans is an ongoing battle to keep our wild lands as pristine as possible. Happy Isles, the start of the John Muir trail, is one of the most littered places in the Valley! Influencing others to be respectful stewards of the JMT would be appreciated by those of us who volunteer for the betterment and health of the mountain scenery and all who enjoy it. Check out the Yosemite Facelift website. Thank You All! Steve Thaw, Moraga, California? |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I saw this from a different source: .
I think the commentary in the Chronicle was a little better, but neither was very good. I think it's a pretty good example of how the Dunning-Kruger effect can blindside anyone: a very large number of folks will have done enough day-hiking that they consider themselves 'experienced', but it's such a generally safe pastime that they are never confronted with counterfactuals, and it doesn't typically occur to most of us to look for flaws in our knowledge. Most deaths in the wilderness are those of day hikers, because of that lack of deeper awareness, but because they aren't carrying a backpack which just happens to have everything they need to weather bad outcomes. The acute mistake this guy made was easy to identify: he didn't understand that going off his trail was a very bad idea. Not just that it made looking for him harder, but because he (like most hikers) was clueless about navigation. The chronic mistake was that he only brought what he knew he would need, not what he might need. No lighter or matches, no knife the shave tinder, no map. He was very lucky he found water. On the PCT forums I follow (on FB), I see a huge obsession with going ultralight, and I'm not surprised at how many people never complete that trek. Luckily, most of it is so heavily peopled that even a severe gear failure isn't likely to lead to death, but those who do die are, as far as I can tell, as unknowingly incompetent with respect to risk as this professor was. |
Re: Yosemite permits on recreation.gov
Larry
Thanks Frank; that information regarding Donohue exit permit numbers was originally posted here: It was only recently added to the general wilderness permit FAQs to which you linked, repeated here: Apologies for not responding earlier - I receive these in digest form, and also don't monitor gmail regularly. Thanks, Larry |
Re: Yosemite permits on recreation.gov
The discrepancy is easily explained.? The trailheads information page is current 2021 information, which will apply through the end of the current quota season.? Note that it includes a JMT/Donohue quota for Sunrise Lakes and Glacier, which will not be JMT/Donohue trailheads next year.
The FAQ page??? ???? Is? for next year, the 2022 season.? The total JMT/Donohue is the same? - 45 -? but allocated differently: 15 to LYV and 30 to Lyell. Those who have followed my comments on this here and on the Facebook pages, will understand that? I consider this reallocation, now fully 2/3 of Yosemite JMT permits starting in Tuolumne, up from the 55+ percent established in 2015, to be a significant step to recognizing? Tuolumne as the principle northern terminus of the JMT. |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I read the article a few days ago and had similar thoughts. I also noticed that he had only a protein bar and some other small snack even though he was planning for a 12 hour day hike. That seems way too little nutrition to me.? Martha On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 10:44 PM Jim Ringland <jtringl@...> wrote:
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Martha Gilmore, PhD, CGP, FAGPA . Please excuse brevity and typographical errors. |
Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
Need to say more on my comment regarding a wrong turn.? The off trail slip was reported as 1100' below the summit.? The article's pictures show it way higher.? I got to my supposition by trying to reconcile those two. On Sep 23, 2021 10:31 PM, Jim Ringland <jtringl@...> wrote:
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Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I saw that same article.? Absolutely facinating.? Well worth reading, although it may be paywall protected. I read it with topo in hand.? And I too thought hard about his actions. He went out under-prepared and under-equipped.? (Just having a GPS tied to a map, recording his track and telling him where he was all the time, would have prevented most of his ordeal.) ? But, given what he had, I can see myself making many of the same (wrong) choices in the field. With the topo in hand, I suspect his critical departure from the correct route may have been earlier, and simpler, than the reporter said.? It may have been a simple wrong turn?about 200' below the summit where the ridge split.? All of us have made wrong turns (at least I have). He just didn't have the tools to find that little error and recover. The big errors, to my mind, happened before he hit the trail. ? Probably a larger message there.??? On Sep 23, 2021 8:49 PM, Curt Kinchen <ptcurt@...> wrote:
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Re: Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAnother valuable note is to always look back at the scenery and work out where you have been and where the car is located. Look at the terrain closely and note key formations. I do this all the time when I go cross-country. I can work for a few days without seeing a trail and get right back where I started. This may be a somewhat innate trait as some of my friends can easily get lost. I try and teach them every time we are out. A few key things... Learn how to navigate without a compass. One
can get within a few degrees just by looking at shadows on the
ground. Also, use the shadows to hold a direction of travel. Key
is to know how the sun moves throughout the day and the seasons. Two Dogs On 9/23/2021 20:49, Curt Kinchen wrote:
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Re: Yosemite permits on recreation.gov
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI'm not? the poster above but here is some Yosemite website
sources I've been looking at. Yosemite page discussing move to recreation.gov, . "How will the Donohue Pass exit quota work?" ... Lyell Canyon trailhead: Permits for 30 people (18 by reservation, 12 first-come, first-served one day in advance). Happy Isles pass-through: Permits for 15 people (9 by reservation, 6 first-come, first served one day in advance)." The above page states there will be no changes to trailhead
quotas, but there only 10 (6/4) Happy Isle Pass-Through permits
available shown on the trailhead information page,
. Frank
On 9/23/2021 6:22 PM, Peter Hirst
wrote:
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Frank |
Nice Article(Cautionary Tale) on Lost Hiker
I just happened on this article on the front page of the SF Chronicle last Sunday.? A paper copy, of all things, as I was checking out of a hotel.? I couldn't remember the last time I read a paper newspaper. In any case it's a lengthy deep dive into the story of a man lost on Boundary Peak in Nevada(just barely east of CA).? It's a heart warming story, with a, thankfully, good ending.? However, my reason for posting, besides it being a good read, is there are some lessons to be learned from his misfortune.? I'm sure he would readily admit to these and maybe other mistakes. It may not be available for everyone as it's behind their paywall so a quick synopsis. An older(57) solo hiker on a day hike, finds himself struggling to reach the summit, but carries on.? He slips off the faint trail on the way down and gets lost.? It takes 4 days for him to be found and at that point he figured he was going to die there. A few things, as a similarly aged solo hiker, occured to me as things to learn.? One, is to know your limits and not proceed further if your gut tells you to turn around.? As a private pilot I? know that one really well, but as a hiker I might find myself violating it and submitting to "get- there-itis".? Another is, even on a day hike, a PLB, such as Spot or InReach, is invaluable.? I know people complain about the annual fee, but when you are lost or hurt by yourself on the mountain, how much would you pay?? He likely would have been found on the first or second day if he had had one. In this case I'm not sure how much it would have helped, but a paper map and compass along with knowing how to use them is a good idea.? Relying on the phone GPS and downloaded map alone, when going off trail or on a faint trail isn't.? He may have been better able to return to the trail and trailhead with a map.? ?Especially when his phone battery died. Again, I'm not being too critical of this hiker, as I have done pretty much everything he did, but without any adverse consequences. It just goes to show you how quickly and easily things can go south. Curt |