... for it seems to me that the rush to get bums on seats by lowering the
technical standards for amateur radio licences will mean that the
amateur radio of the past 100 years will be dead and gone in the next 50.

It should have already moved on in the last 100 years. Unless the hobby moves with the times and attracts fresh blood it will die due to the very people that are obsessing over protecting it. It's not all about bums on seats but there is some truth in the phrase use it or lose it.?

It already has changed and is very different from what it was 50 years ago, let alone a hundred.

How many of today's radio amateurs are capable of designing and build their own multi-band, multi-mode transceiver from scratch? How many could design and build an SDR transceiver from scratch? And with the availability of cheap hardware, how many are inclined to do so and/or are currently operating using a recently built & designed homebrew multiband, multimode transceiver?

So yes, it has changed, and the hobby (or pursuit, as you prefer) is continuing to change. Many view change to be a good thing and embrace it. Others are scared of it and are desperate to cling on to the past.

Some things haven't changed though - For instance, even though getting a full licence is how harder than back when you got yours (higher standards?), some of today's amateurs are still prepared to put in the work, despite the fact that a minority of the old guard ignore them or look down on them whilst they're still progressing through the lower levels.

It's not too late - if you'd like to help to make sure that the hobby (or pursuit, as you prefer) doesn't die, I'm sure the community would welcome your support and input.

Pete M0PSX

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:24 PM, Pete M0PSX wrote:

It already has changed and is very different from what it was 50 years ago,
let alone a hundred.

Au contraire, it is the technology that changes and not the essence of amateur radio.

How many of today's radio amateurs are capable of designing and build their

own multi-band, multi-mode transceiver from scratch? How many could design and
build an SDR transceiver from scratch? And with the availability of cheap
hardware, how many are inclined to do so and/or are currently operating using
a recently built & designed homebrew multiband, multimode transceiver?

It's always been the case that most of we are sheep who follow the designs
of others and construct accordingly, witness the current interest in the QCX
and BITX designs and the K2 availability in kit form.

So yes, it has changed, and the hobby (or pursuit, as you prefer) is
continuing to change.

<PANTOMIME MODE>
OH NO! IT HASN'T !!
</PANTOMIME MODE>

Many view change to be a good thing and embrace it.

As, indeed, have I, and ten years ago resolved a longstanding
doubt of mine that many of the published descriptions of
the mathematics of sampling for DSP were wrong, to the
extent that I can now understand all of DSP from the
lowest levels up.

Others are scared of it and are desperate to cling on to the past.

I don't know anybody in that category. Have you any examples?

Some things haven't changed though - For instance, even though getting a full
licence is how harder than back when you got yours (higher standards?),

Really? Are you sure? I thought that the differences between Hartley, Clapp
and Colpitts oscillators were no longer tested?

some
of today's amateurs are still prepared to put in the work, despite the fact
that a minority of the old guard ignore them or look down on them whilst
they're still progressing through the lower levels.

There are no lower levels of respectability.

There are only SWLs and Full licensees although there are quite a
few CBers-masquerading-as-radio-amateurs.

It's not too late - if you'd like to help to make sure that the hobby (or
pursuit, as you prefer) doesn't die, I'm sure the community would welcome your
support and input.

I return your invitation and request that you make a stance against the
dilution and lowering of technical standards in that the future of amateur
radio may be the same as its past; that of technically savvy individuals
making use of technological equipment for radio communications via
their deep understanding of what makes the rigs tick.

> it is the technology that changes and not the essence of amateur radio.

Some examples of the non-technology changes I was referring to, include: The licensing conditions, "licence for life", 3-tier system, the percentage of amateurs who construct their own transceivers, the way that exams and training are conducted, the role of clubs, the way that people study and interact outside of amateur radio, attitudes to amateur radio from outside our community, relevance, etc

> I return your invitation

I was responding to your initial question, about the demise and death of the hobby. I suggested that if you wanted to stop it dying, then there are things that you can do to prevent this from happening. Asking someone who wants the hobby not to die, to change their position and speed up its death, makes no sense.

> a full licence is how harder than back when you got yours

I'm game - let's compare a Full RAE with the 2019 Full:

Questions: 80 under RAE, now 130
Papers: Was 1 under 2003 RAE, now 3
Syllabus sections: Was 8 under RAE, now 10 (recent updates inc SDR, DV, DDS, Fourier, data modes, etc)
Practicals: None under RAE, now 20 mandatory assessments (construction, testing, operating and non-voice modes)
Exam sessions needed: Was 1 under 2003 RAE, now 3 (plus practical sessions)
Exam fee: Was ?29.50 in 2003, now ?97.50 (exc course fees, 3 books & travel)

The RAE examiners reports make interesting reading - some prime examples:

In December 1995, 62% of candidates? couldn't answer a question about station usage, with many candidates thinking that relaying of news, or other stations to increase the range, was allowed
In December 2000, many candidates thought 2W1XUL was the callsign of a club station
In May 2001, 55% of candidates didn't realise that the log could be used to record communications and observations
In December 1996, most candidates didn't know who to notify if they moved house
In May 1998, 41% thought that the amateur radio licence allowed amateurs to tune in to broadcast radio stations.
In May 1999, 35% thought that sending messages for general reception (broadcasting) was allowed
In May 1996, only half of candidates could recognise a Novice callsign (many thought it was 'GE')
In December 1996, many candidates did not know what do if called by a CB user, and most didn't know who to report it to.
In December 1995, 63% of candidates couldn't find the International Disaster bands in the licence booklet
In May 1998, 66% of candidates couldn't correctly explain was a log was for
In December 1996, 42% of candidates didn't know what the band plan was for

Ask any Foundation licence-holder... This is all Foundation-level syllabus stuff!

The list goes on, and that's just the comments relating to licence conditions and operating. If you fancy a laugh, they're easy to find online and are worth a read.

Pete M0PSX

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 11:56 AM, Pete M0PSX wrote:

it is the technology that changes and not the essence of amateur radio.

Some examples of the non-technology changes I was referring to, include: The
licensing conditions, "licence for life", 3-tier system, the percentage of
amateurs who construct their own transceivers, the way that exams and training
are conducted, the role of clubs, the way that people study and interact
outside of amateur radio, attitudes to amateur radio from outside our
community, relevance, etc

Administrative sidelines, but not actually amateur radio; amateur radio
itself has not changed, it remains technically savvy people doing
radio communication.

I return your invitation

Asking someone who wants the
hobby not to die, to change their position and speed up its death, makes no
sense.

So what you said to me makes no sense? :-)

a full licence is how harder than back when you got yours

I'm game - let's compare a Full RAE with the 2019 Full:

Unfortunately none of what you listed appled to my taking of the
RAE which happened in May 1970 and we had to answer 6
out of 8 questions with full written replies.

ie, we had to demonstrate our knowledge without being
prompted with the answer hidden amongst a mulitple-cheat
exam question.

Yes, I agree that the aims behind amateur radio are broadly the same as when it started, but pretty much everything else has changed.

> So what you said to me makes no sense?

Your opening statement was that you thought amateur radio will be dead in 50 years. I said that you could play a part in making sure if doesn't, if you were so inclined. Which part made no sense to you?

> Unfortunately none of what you listed appled to my taking of the RAE which happened in May 1970

Some of it applies - notably that today's amateurs have to be assessed on 20 practicals to confirm competancy to operate on multiple bands, use multiple modes, and to construct and test.

I'm not sure when C&G changed to multi-guess, but I'm assuming in the 1980s. Regardless, you presumably acknowledge that, at least for the last 20 or so years of RAE, the standards/requirements were demonstrably lower than today.

Are we now done on this thread?

Pete M0PSX

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Chris G7DDN