|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
By making something elitist, then you give something for those with a
genuine interest in the technical pursuit that is amateur radio something
to aim for and to feel justifiably proud when they achieve the status.
As I said, _ALL_ are welcome to come and join.
I pointed out before that the former "high" standard of the RAE
was passed with ease by 14-year-olds who had not yet gained any
national recognition in the shape of GCE, CSE or GCSE.
I will assume that all those contributing to this discussion have been
through the school system at a time when it was all freely available
to them and I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
Here is my take on what is amateur radio, something that has not
changed for 100 years (but it is too easy to conflate the coffer-filling
needs of the RSGB with the needs of amateur radio) and it reflects
my becoming interested at the age of 10 years old ...
-----ooooo-----
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
|
Yes I agree with you about the cb part but like I said M3 M6 and 2E0s feel like we¡¯re being made to progress and some of us haven¡¯t even got the brain to take all this technology in I¡¯ve took my 2E0 four time and failed I¡¯m 63 and it¡¯s a lot to take in it¡¯s ok for all you who went to college to get your G4 call signs and run the RSGB the way you want it running people like my self out off the hobby
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2019, at 09:30, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?By making something elitist, then you give something for those with a
genuine interest in the technical pursuit that is amateur radio something
to aim for and to feel justifiably proud when they achieve the status.
As I said, _ALL_ are welcome to come and join.
I pointed out before that the former "high" standard of the RAE
was passed with ease by 14-year-olds who had not yet gained any
national recognition in the shape of GCE, CSE or GCSE.
I will assume that all those contributing to this discussion have been
through the school system at a time when it was all freely available
to them and I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
Here is my take on what is amateur radio, something that has not
changed for 100 years (but it is too easy to conflate the coffer-filling
needs of the RSGB with the needs of amateur radio) and it reflects
my becoming interested at the age of 10 years old ...
-----ooooo-----
Q. What is Ham Radio?
A. Ham Radio is a technical pursuit for those who
are interested in the science of radio wave
propagation and who are also interested in the
way that their radios function. It has a long-standing
tradition of providing a source of engineers who
are born naturals.
Ham Radio awakens in its aficionados a whole-life
fascination with all things technical and gives
an all-abiding curiosity to improve one's scientific
knowledge. It's a great swimming pool, please dive in!
This excitement causes a wish to share the experience
with ones fellow man, and shows itself in the
gentlemanly traditions of Ham Radio.
Radio Hams are in a unique privileged position in that
they can construct and operate their own equipment! No-one
else has this privilege. Users, such as broadcasters,
the po lice and armed farces, CBers and mobile phone
users have to purchase ready-made gear. Manufacturers
are not licensed to operate their gear. Radio Hams
are qualified to design, build and then
operate their own pieces of equipment. They do this
with gusto, and also repair and modify their own
equipment. This is a privilege well worth the effort
to gain, and one to be jealously guarded.
The excitement that drives a Radio Ham starts with
relatively simple technologies at first, perhaps making
his own Wimshurst machine and primary cells. Small pieces
of test equipment follow, possibly multimeters and signal
generators. Then comes receivers and transmitters. It is with
the latter that communication with like-minded technically
motivated people takes off. The scope for technical
development grows with the years and now encompasses DSP
and DDS. There is also a great deal
of excitement in the areas of computer programming to
be learnt and applied.
The technical excitement motivates Radio Hams to compete
with each other to determine who has designed and manufactured
the best-quality station. This competitiveness is found in DXing,
competitions and fox-hunts.
-----ooooo----
However, beware! A Ham Radio licence is such a
desirable thing to have that there are large
numbers of people who wish to be thought of
as Radio Hams when, in fact, they are nothing
of the kind! Usually such people are a
variation of the CB Radio hobbyist; they buy their
radios off the shelf and send them back to be
repaired; they are not interested in technical discussion
and sneer at those who are; they have no idea how
their radios work inside and have no wish to find out;
they are free with rather silly personal insults.
-----ooooo-----
One infallible way to disambiguate the CB Radio Hobbyist
from the _REAL_ Radio Ham is to solicit their view of the
difference between CB Radio and Ham Radio. A Radio Ham will
perceive Ham Radio to be a technical pursuit and will
perceive CB Radio to be a social communications facility
no different in essence to a land-line telephone or a
GSM mobile in the hands of a 6-year-old. Thus a Radio Ham
could also use a CB set safe in the knowledge that
such use says no more about him than having a land-line
telephone, whilst continuing to regard Ham Radio as a separate
technical pursuit.
A CB Radio hobbyist, on the other hand, sees no difference between
Ham Radio and CB Radio. To him, they are
sisters-under-the-skin. Wrongly, the CB Radio Hobbyist then
tries to classify himself as the equal of the Radio
Ham when, in fact, he is nothing of the kind.
Ham Radio is not CB Radio and has no common ground with it!
Ham Radio is _THE_ technical pursuit for gentlemen; CB Radio
is the name for the operating hobby for those who buy their
rigs and equipment off the shelf.
-----ooooo-----
If you are the sort of person who is motivated by
a technical interest in how things work; if you took apart
malfunctioning clocks, toasters and the like and put them
right despite never having seen them working, then
a Ham Radio licence is your traditional route! There has
never been a shortage of such people, and those who gravitate
towards such an interest have always been welcomed into
our shacks and their interests fostered. There is not today,
nor has there ever been, a need to go out and encourage
and press children, children who have never expressed an
interest in Ham Radio, to come into our shacks. Such an
activity should cause eyebrows to be raised - what
normal well-adjusted adults seek the social acquaintance
of children?!
-----ooooo-----
Please remember that this FAQ is a _POSITIVE EXHORTATION_
to you to exert yourselves to join our fraternity!
|
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and, together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention. Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
|
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 01:30 AM, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 wrote:
I challenge all my naysayers that surely now as adults
with adult job qualifications that they are not going to be outdone
by unqualified 14-year-olds?
I certainly would employ a person without qualifications but not at 14 because of the age limits on full time work, but post 16, yes! My profession is information security. I was one of the original founders of the professional institution in that field of work, the Chartered Institute of Information Security Professionals,?IISP: It is often the case that keen youngsters with a number of years' experience of code hacking at home will make excellent penetration testers. Often better than many with degree level qualifications, many of whom need a lot of training. Of course, as an employer I would look to my 'no qualification's' employee to gain vocational qualifications (part time training is a legal requirement 16-18) so that they could progress to greater things. There are many in society that are very bright yet do not succeed at examinations for various reasons. These people when placed in the right environment often perform at the highest levels of skill. People without qualifications can contribute?significantly to a diverse security team just as those with a PhD in cryptography! Amateur radio must be diverse and inclusive. Being able to call CQ or to tell somebody they are 59 is not required to satisfy the licence conditions! Any?entrance test?must be focused on knowledge of the actions that are required to fulfil the conditions of the amateur licence. Not the technology and what some might regard as 'amateur practice'. John G4SWX
|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:11 AM, peter davies wrote:
Yes I agree with you about the cb part but like I said M3 M6 and 2E0s feel
like we¡¯re being made to progress and some of us haven¡¯t even got the
brain to take all this technology in I¡¯ve took my 2E0 four time and failed
I¡¯m 63 and it¡¯s a lot to take in it¡¯s ok for all you who went to college
to get your G4 call signs and run the RSGB the way you want it running people
like my self out off the hobby
Where are you based? I'm in Chippenham in Wiltshire and fully prepared to offer personal tuition on the sole condition that once having passed the Intermediate level you go straight on to the Full level without taking out an Intermediate licence. (As I've probably made clear, I regard the licence below that of Full as not being respectable; I have been opposed to the Foundation licence from its inception and I pride myself that I have never QSOd with M3 / M6 /M7 licensees.)
|
Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:13 AM, Pete M0PSX wrote:
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby
has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this
does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect
a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll
say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the
future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and,
together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention.
Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming
out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech
trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see
becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the
hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology
developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial
revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people
that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge
and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
There's quite a few challenges there, excuse me if I fail to respond to all of them. First of all, amateur radio is not a hobby; it's a whole-life technical pursuit. CB radio is the hobby. For me, teenage interest in amateur radio prompted me to pursue electronics at Essex Uni from 69 to 72, but I nearly flunked the degree due to too much time spent in the radio room, 5N73. I spent my career in electronics and software, but all software after the first year. Amateur radio has not changed at all, it remains a technical pursuit using and understanding various technologies to provide radio communication. Amateur radio has not changed, but the technologies most certainly have; no longer do we press TV line output valves into use for HF PAs, and we implement the innard of our rigs increasingly in digital forms, but we strive to understand the latest developments in the continuing actions of self-training. The future of amateur radio is the same as its past; utilising and understanding technology used in radio communications, and that is where it should still be in 20 years time. There is no need to attract people. It is only the concern of the RSGB for its coffers that raises such a spectre. There's no need to promote amateur radio.It is, and will always be, a niche interest. What I do for amateur radio is do it, HF QRP CW on 80, 40, 30, and 20, with occasional bouts of FM on 2M. As to training, in the past I have given lectures at Chippenham radio club to assist those facing hurdles of understanding in tackling what was then the RAE. I have also today offered tuition in this group.
|
Yes we¡¯ll all you old one wouldn¡¯t reflect the reality on the 21st century but if this goes ahead Raynet will loose a lot of members and so will the RSGB there¡¯s a lot of old boys just happy with the M3 and M6
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2019, at 14:16, Gareth G4SDW (ne G8DXY) GQRP #3339 via Groups.Io <headstone255@...> wrote:
?On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 11:13 AM, Pete M0PSX wrote:
Gareth,
Thanks for outlining your stance. My stance is that I believe that the hobby
has changed significantly since the days when much of this applied, and this
does not reflect the realities of amateur radio in the 21st century. I suspect
a debate on our very different stances would be counter-productive, so I'll
say no more.
What would be interesting to understand from you, is your stance regarding the
future of the hobby. Discussion of this is one of the aims of this group, and,
together with change, was very much the theme of the RSGB's convention.
Specifically:
How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming
out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech
trends, and that amateur radio lacks "relevance, visibility and appeal"?
How should we go about attracting the type of people you'd like to see
becoming radio amateurs? And are there enough of those people entering the
hobby to ensure its long-term survival?
Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology
developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial
revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
What activities do you personally do to promote the hobby, recruit the people
that you feel should be becoming radio amateurs, and pass on your knowledge
and experience to others?
Where would you like to see the hobby in, say, 20 years?
Pete M0PSX
There's quite a few challenges there, excuse me if I fail to respond to all of them.
First of all, amateur radio is not a hobby; it's a whole-life technical pursuit. CB
radio is the hobby. For me, teenage interest in amateur radio prompted me to
pursue electronics at Essex Uni from 69 to 72, but I nearly flunked the degree
due to too much time spent in the radio room, 5N73.
I spent my career in electronics and software, but all software after the first year.
Amateur radio has not changed at all, it remains a technical pursuit using
and understanding various technologies to provide radio communication.
Amateur radio has not changed, but the technologies most certainly
have; no longer do we press TV line output valves into use for HF PAs, and
we implement the innard of our rigs increasingly in digital forms, but
we strive to understand the latest developments in the continuing
actions of self-training.
The future of amateur radio is the same as its past; utilising and
understanding technology used in radio communications, and that
is where it should still be in 20 years time.
There is no need to attract people. It is only the concern of the RSGB
for its coffers that raises such a spectre.
There's no need to promote amateur radio.It is, and will always be, a niche
interest. What I do for amateur radio is do it, HF QRP CW on 80, 40, 30, and 20,
with occasional bouts of FM on 2M.
As to training, in the past I have given lectures at Chippenham radio club to
assist those facing hurdles of understanding in tackling what was then the RAE.
I have also today offered tuition in this group.
|
Gareth,
Interesting. In response:
> Amateur radio is not a hobby
That may have been true in the past, but no longer, I'm afraid.
According to clear statements on the websites of Ofcom, ARRL, RSGB and others, it's a hobby. I'm happy to forward you some URLs if you're in doubt.
Further, Section 1(1)(b) of the Ofcom licence clearly states that use of radio equipment is "as a leisure activity" - a hobby is defined as "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time"
> Amateur radio has not changed at all
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Amateur Radio has changed massively over the last 40 years. If you took a snapshot of what the world of amateur radio was in 1979 and compared it to today, there are massive differences in what the landscape looks like. Technologies have changed, but so have attitudes, society, licensing, education. Where once amateur radio was a qualification and every rig was hand-built - that's no longer true. You may personally not agree with the way it's changed, but for the vast majority of the world, it has.
> There is no need to attract people or promote amateur radio
I note you didn't answer my "how would you like the hobby to look". Presumably, if you don't believe in getting new people on-board, that people entering post 2003 shouldn't count, or that it's a good idea to tell people that amateur radio still exists, then you'd be happy for amateur radio to shrink year-on-year until it's just a memory?
I note you didn't answer two questions:
> How do you respond to the statement that the hobby is fast becoming out-of-date, its best days are behind it, we've not kept up with current tech trends
My guess is as you don't think amateur radio or society has changed, there's no need for change or innovation, and it's fine to be seen as increasingly out-date and irrelevant?
> Do you feel that the hobby should evolve alongside current technology developments, and be ready for what I gather's being called the 4th industrial revolution? If so, how could this be achieved?
Presumably, see above.
Pete M0PSX
|
As a nervous Foundation Licence holder I have never transmitted on my own for fear of getting things wrong. I applaud the idea of entry level licence, the hobby needs to be welcoming people in not shutting people out.
|
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 07:58 AM, Gareth Buxton wrote:
As a nervous Foundation Licence holder I have never transmitted on my own for fear of getting things wrong. I applaud the idea of entry level licence, the hobby needs to be welcoming people in not shutting people out.
Fantastic - well done on speaking out. Firstly; there is NO right and NO WRONG way of talking to people over the air with your amateur licence. Saying to somebody; 'Good evening, this is M****, and I would like to have a first contact' is fine and any radio amateur with any self respect should then coach you along. Just ignore those who consider themselves some sort of arrogant elite?who will not give you help in the early stages. Enjoy the hobby and I hope to have a contact with you some time. John G4SWX
|
¡®Nervous Foundation Holder¡¯. I think we all have been there! Yes it¡¯s daunting. So maybe if you have a Local ham you know, arrange a sked on the phone, even whilst on the phone work out a script, then get on the pre arranged frequency call your tame ham & work through your script.
When you¡¯ve done that a couple of times the fear drops away.
¡®Come on in the waters fine¡¯! Welcome to the hobby.
Ian, G0PDZ
|
Wow! No wonder the hobby is in decline. I see your point but times have changed. Did you know women can be engineers too these days? It is also interesting to hear your views with regards to CB radio operators as in other parts of Europe CB and Ham radio goes hand in hand. CB operators also fix thier own radios and make thier own antennas and learn about propagation. Some clubs welcome CB operators and Hams, in fact anyone with an interest in radio. I happen to agree re the exam as personally I saw very little wrong with the RAE I took in the 70's, but in a world where few people have the time to build thier own radios (unless they are retired and have access to the full range of test equipment) we do need to cater for the hams that are happy to buy off the shelf. Your post is full of "his" "fellow man" "him" "he" and "the pursuant of gentleman". Really the world has moved on but in ham terms it seems that women are tolerated and not seen as real hams. This is what is wrong with the hobby. I have a great deal of respect for anyone that has the time and the knowledge to build thier own equipment but surely the hobby cannot survive if it is only the reserve of a few retired people. Many hams these days may have cut their teeth on CB radio sets long before they were legal in the UK so I struggle with the continuing them and us attitude in the name of elitism. I have a full licence, I am technically competent but I'd rather buy than make most of the time, apart from my own antennas. I earned my licence but to hear remarks such as "real" ham radio really makes me feel that the hobby has a long way to go. Maybe it is time to reflect on the origin of the term ham. We are "amateurs" no matter what our profession or employment status.?
|
> I pointed out before that the former "high"? standard of the RAE
> was passed with ease by 14-year-olds who had not yet gained any
> national recognition in the shape of GCE, CSE or GCSE.
Mmm, a Trumpism, if ever I heard one. I think you really mean that " the RAEwas passed with ease by (those) 14-year-olds of greater than average scientific and mathematical ability", but to suggest that passing the RAE was typical of? any 14 year-old is quite ridiculous.
> Here is my take on what is amateur radio, something that has not > changed for 100 years?
I'm not sure whether you feel that it is amateur radio that has not changed for 100 years, or your own take on it.
In the first case, you evidently haven't read the reasoned arguments that have already been made in this forum about how the whole nature of amateur radio has changed in even just the last decade.
If it's the second case, please accept my apology if my previous reference to the phrase "old man" seemed in any way frivolous or derogatory. You, sir, are a living legend. If it's BOTH these cases, let us all hope that your spark gap goes on crackling for many years to come.
Bob, G8IYK
On Wednesday, 16 October 2019, 16:40:43 BST, Ian G0PDZ <g0pdz.ian@...> wrote:
¡®Nervous Foundation Holder¡¯. I think we all have been there! Yes it¡¯s daunting. So maybe if you have a Local ham you know, arrange a sked on the phone, even whilst on the phone work out a script, then get on the pre arranged frequency call your tame ham & work through your script.
When you¡¯ve done that a couple of times the fear drops away.
¡®Come on in the waters fine¡¯! Welcome to the hobby.
Ian, G0PDZ
|
peter davies
Pete M0PSX
John G4SWX