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Sticky ink of schematics
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Hello, I want to scan and save forever schematics I recently found from a warehouse. The problem is the ink. Storage conditions for decades are unknown but I assume this wasn¡¯t kept in an air conditioned environment. It wasn¡¯t exposed directly to a flood so at least I have that going for me. However, hot and cold with possible humidity in the mix for decades will still take a toll. Any tips and tricks on how to separate papers from themselves or it¡¯s plastic cover without lifting the ink?
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-Lex |
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I¡¯m simultaneously posting this on the eevblog for solutions. It¡¯s bad when I come to the foldouts. :/ I have significantly better luck with separate pages. Especially if they don¡¯t have print on both sides. This is a HP CLIP btw. Using a plastic spatula meant for walls or deicing a fridge.
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-Lex |
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On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 02:02 PM, Lexter Negron wrote:
Any tips and tricksI don't know which city you are in. But, many cities, especially big ones, have a public Archive, staffed with professional archivists.
I guess... mileage will vary, on the 'experts' ... but I found the archivists, in my city, very knowledgeable about 'recovering' and 'prep-ing' old, and damaged, documents, for scanning.
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There are some journals, and monographs, I am aware of; but a professional archivist would know better.
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Besides using the kind of 'gentile' mechanical separation, using thin spatulas, or specialized bone tools... sort of... like you are doing...
One technique for separating pages, I know of, is to use of a 'humidity chamber.'
Another is freezing.
Both sometimes work... but not always... so it's best to experiment first.
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If the pages are damaged, or the ink is damaged, to begin with, or during separation... sometimes the paper can be reinforced with Japanese tissue paper (conservation paper) and 'wheat starch paste.'
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Will do. An update, I found exactly what to call this courtesy of someone from EEVblog. Was found thru searching "toner" in the old threads.
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I've currently stopped any separation on my part to see what options I can take. Also I'm in the Houston area in Texas. Some of the stuff was stored in a neighboring state. For the most part it gets hot and humid but can get snow/frost. I suspect heating from many summers in a warehouse did this.
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-Lex |
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On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 08:01 PM, Lexter Negron wrote:
found thru searching "toner"I read in your links to the threads...that ISO...which I paraphrase here... they think "if there is transfer, and sticking, it is likely toner." AFAIK, that... if I have articulated their claim correctly... is untrue.
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There are several kinds/types of 'imaging materials.'
"ink' and "toner" are two of them; but, 'ink' is? not the same as 'toner'
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Oil based inks, used on offset printing... can and do... stick pages together... and transfer, as well.
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I'm not sure it ultimately matters; but, you can sometimes determine what printing technology was used by examining the print, and the paper.
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Sometimes... particularly in older monographs... and some manuals... you can find information about how the documented was printed, in the document's colophon.
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGreetings, ? I asked a longtime friend who spent his career in the printing and photo lithography industry. ? He suggested reaching out to the ¡°American Academy of Forensic Sciences¡± located in Colorado Springs, CO. ? FWIW I hope this helps. ? Regards, ? Ken ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Roy Thistle via groups.io <roy.thistle@...> On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 08:01 PM, Lexter Negron wrote:
I read in your links to the threads...that ISO...which I paraphrase here... they think "if there is transfer, and sticking, it is likely toner." AFAIK, that... if I have articulated their claim correctly... is untrue. ? There are several kinds/types of 'imaging materials.' "ink' and "toner" are two of them; but, 'ink' is? not the same as 'toner' ? Oil based inks, used on offset printing... can and do... stick pages together... and transfer, as well. ? I'm not sure it ultimately matters; but, you can sometimes determine what printing technology was used by examining the print, and the paper. ? Sometimes... particularly in older monographs... and some manuals... you can find information about how the documented was printed, in the document's colophon. ? ? |
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Modern laser printers and copiers use a finely powdered plastic
toner to create the letters and pictures that are on the page. The plastic dust is placed onto the paper electrostatically, and is fused to the paper with very hot silicone rubber pinch roller. When you put such a printed sheet of paper into a vinyl binder, the same plasticizer that makes the vinyl soft and flexible will out gas and soften the plastic toner that is the printing on the paper. In my experience, you are screwed at this point. The plastic letters will be sticking to the adjacent sheet with the same vigor as they stick to the original sheet. -Chuck Harris On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 20:01:10 -0800 "Lexter Negron via groups.io" <lexternegron@...> wrote: Will do. An update, I found exactly what to call this courtesy of |
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Like Chuck said, laser printed items tend to stick to other stuff over time. I haven't seen it too bad from one paper sheet to another, but definitely from paper to plastics, or (toner sides) face to face. I've seen and heard it (sounds like peeling Velcro apart) especially from laser printed paper pages to (inside) vinyl covers of 3-ring binders, and plastic page separators and such, leaving some of the print transferred.
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I think the best way to preserve paper documents is to laser print one-sided only, and avoid any long term contact with plastic materials - an extra blank paper cover sheet on top can isolate it from a plastic layer. If it must be two-sided, go with inkjet instead.
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Ed |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýPersonally, I have found that the laser printer at home doesn't do this while the ones at work and in the print shop I use do --- the difference may be that the one at home is black+white only and is of the black powder toner+fuzer variety while the others are colour and use a waxy sort of ink. Luckily, when I needed some schematics printed on A3 I found a print shop that had a black+white plotter that could go up to A0 and those haven't stuck to anything (yet). I did at one point spray some colour prints with a clear lacquer which seemed to work but a PITA. As Ed says, Inkjet is the best alternative. Dave On 27/11/2024 06:26, ed breya wrote:
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