|
I later suspected that 15x would be too much. I'll have a look for AO570/145.
Thanks.
Renaud
|
|
Hi Steve, Thanks for that advice. Why are 145 eyepieces better please? It seems 147 are very common. Best regards, Renaud
The 145 eyepiece is 10x. The 147 is 15x. The AO570 body has magnifications from .7x to 4.2x, so the effective magnification with the 10x eyepiece is 7x to 42x. With the 15x the range of magnification is 10.5x to 63x. ?The 42x magnification is plenty and the 7x is a very useful wider field of view.?
The AO catalogs actually call for the AO 184 eyepiece if you want a 15x eyepiece for the AO 569 or AO 570. The AO147 eyepiece was for the American Optical Cycloptic stereo microscope. Since the AO engineers spec’d the 145 and 184 for the AO 570 I suspect there are differences appropriate for those microscopes. | |
|
Hi Steve,
Thanks for that advice. Why are 145 eyepieces better please? It seems 147 are very common.
Best regards,
Renaud
|
Inasmuch as this is a vintage equipment group you might consider an American Optical AO570 with the model 145 eyepieces for about $100 on eBay. I can attest to the superb optics, with magnification from 7x to 40x. Illuminators are available for another $30-50. You do have to familiarize yourself with the models, various bases available and the eyepieces. I got an AO570 wit the wrong eyepieces included but got a correct pair model 145 separately. Gorgeous stereo view. The AO569 is a little cheaper but the optics have marginally less resolution. I’m happy I got the model 570.
|
I purchase a used Nikon 8x, 20x, 100x binocular microscope quite a while ago, added the Illuminator ring. It is a superb instrument, but not light in weight. Price was $75 then, 15 yrs. ago. I have seen several name brand microscopes in government surplus auctions recently in the $75-150 range, ie. Bausch & Lomb, Nikon, etc. For a quick and dirty usage, Chinese will work, mostly, but for serious work, the used name brands are a great investment.
Don Bitters
|
On 3/20/25 13:54, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: WIFT trinocular brand new (any input on the brand?). If it says made in China, they are mostly subpar compared to used good Euro and Japan lenses.
|
A bit of a follow up on this. I think the point about stereo microscopes giving indication of depth is invaluable, and exactly the kind of information one hopes to get on here.?
But I will say I also got one of these "thick pen" sized microscope cameras - working wirelessly on phones, or through USB on computers - and I think this is an excellent addition to the bench. Its best use is inspection - where the large screen does a tremendous job at displaying huge solder joints and component pins and?burned flux etc - and not soldering, due to the point above. I paid about $30 for mine, which I think is a steal for what it does.?
Certainly, I'm still pursuing getting a real, lab-grade stereo microscope. Currently hesitating between giving the Nikon(s) I mentioned above a test drive, and just biting the bullet and getting a SWIFT trinocular brand new (any input on the brand?).? Radu.?
On Tue, Mar 18, 2025 at 8:56?PM Radu Bogdan Dicher via <vondicher= [email protected]> wrote: To assist with feedback on this local offer for the Nikon microscopes, I uploaded to the photos section pictures of the two units this local seller has: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=301362.? A couple of questions: - Is anyone familiar enough to maybe tell what the differences between the two are? I'm not sure which one I should get, if I go for this.?
- I think both seem to come with booms, which I think are a little costly on their own. Maybe this makes their offer a bit more competitive??
Thank you, Radu.?
And that, my dear sir, is exactly why I wrote the program.
Please contact me off? list.? I didn't exactly design some of this for
public consumption (mostly the Embarcadaro stuff), and you'll need the
libraries I've created.
Haven't tried to rehost it, so it'll be an experience.
madyn@...
Harvey
On 3/18/2025 4:59 PM, David McQuate via wrote:
>
> I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used
> Visual Studio.? I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7.? I use SCAD for 3D
> printing and also for general 3D modeling.? Your program seems like a
> natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for
> creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that
> done by JLCPCB.? Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
>
> David
>
> On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
>
>> I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.
>> It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto
>> the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal
>> and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you
>> use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in
>> OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
>>
>> As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the
>> part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not
>> sure about what else.
>>
>> It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I
>> couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my
>> own.
>>
>> How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)?
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>> ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture.
>>
>>
>>
>> On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via??wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the
>>> PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice
>>>> heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the
>>>> microscope.
>>>>
>>>> I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
>>>>
>>>> I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part
>>>> of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How
>>>> complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe
>>>> move manually and lock into place.
>>>>
>>>> if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can
>>>> show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same
>>>> parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
>>>>
>>>> that?might?help?a?bit.
>>>>
>>>> Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the
>>>> best soldering angle.
>>>>
>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via??wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank?you?all,?great?input.
>>>>> From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom
>>>>> would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and
>>>>> oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the
>>>>> boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope
>>>>> with a stand. I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom
>>>>> to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that
>>>>> available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple
>>>>> hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight
>>>>> on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
>>>>> Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo
>>>>> microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
>>>>> Thank?you.
>>>>> Radu.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via
>>>>> <> <john=[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via??<>?wrote:
>>>>> ????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?
>>>>> ????<>?wrote:
>>>>> ????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
>>>>> ????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
>>>>> ????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
>>>>> ????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
>>>>> ????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
>>>>> ????>>?some?specific?models?
>>>>> ????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
>>>>> ????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
>>>>> ????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
>>>>> ????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
>>>>> ????>>?HDMI?...
>>>>> ????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
>>>>> ????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
>>>>> ????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
>>>>> ????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
>>>>> ????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
>>>>> ????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
>>>>> ????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
>>>>> ????>?immediately.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
>>>>> ????impressive?thing.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
>>>>> ????lighting.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
>>>>> ????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
>>>>> ????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
>>>>> ????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
>>>>> ????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
>>>>> ????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
>>>>> ????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>???????????????-Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Hi?Radu,
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
>>>>> ????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
>>>>> ????to?sell.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
>>>>> ????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
>>>>> ????liking?it.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
>>>>> ????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
>>>>> ????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
>>>>> ????one?effectively?yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
>>>>> ????most?sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
>>>>> ????and?quality?will
>>>>> ????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
>>>>> ????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
>>>>> ????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
>>>>> ????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
>>>>> ????solder?paste,?etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
>>>>> ????--?????John?Griessen
>>>>> ????Albuquerque?NM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
|
To assist with feedback on this local offer for the Nikon microscopes, I uploaded to the photos section pictures of the two units this local seller has: /g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/album?id=301362.? A couple of questions: - Is anyone familiar enough to maybe tell what the differences between the two are? I'm not sure which one I should get, if I go for this.?
- I think both seem to come with booms, which I think are a little costly on their own. Maybe this makes their offer a bit more competitive??
Thank you, Radu.?
And that, my dear sir, is exactly why I wrote the program.
Please contact me off? list.? I didn't exactly design some of this for
public consumption (mostly the Embarcadaro stuff), and you'll need the
libraries I've created.
Haven't tried to rehost it, so it'll be an experience.
madyn@...
Harvey
On 3/18/2025 4:59 PM, David McQuate via wrote:
>
> I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used
> Visual Studio.? I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7.? I use SCAD for 3D
> printing and also for general 3D modeling.? Your program seems like a
> natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for
> creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that
> done by JLCPCB.? Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
>
> David
>
> On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
>
>> I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.
>> It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto
>> the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal
>> and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you
>> use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in
>> OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
>>
>> As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the
>> part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not
>> sure about what else.
>>
>> It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I
>> couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my
>> own.
>>
>> How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)?
>>
>> Harvey
>>
>> ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture.
>>
>>
>>
>> On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via??wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the
>>> PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice
>>>> heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the
>>>> microscope.
>>>>
>>>> I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
>>>>
>>>> I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part
>>>> of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How
>>>> complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe
>>>> move manually and lock into place.
>>>>
>>>> if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can
>>>> show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same
>>>> parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
>>>>
>>>> that?might?help?a?bit.
>>>>
>>>> Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the
>>>> best soldering angle.
>>>>
>>>> Harvey
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via??wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank?you?all,?great?input.
>>>>> From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom
>>>>> would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and
>>>>> oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the
>>>>> boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope
>>>>> with a stand. I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom
>>>>> to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that
>>>>> available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple
>>>>> hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight
>>>>> on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
>>>>> Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo
>>>>> microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
>>>>> Thank?you.
>>>>> Radu.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via
>>>>> <> <john=[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via??<>?wrote:
>>>>> ????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?
>>>>> ????<>?wrote:
>>>>> ????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
>>>>> ????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
>>>>> ????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
>>>>> ????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
>>>>> ????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
>>>>> ????>>?some?specific?models?
>>>>> ????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
>>>>> ????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
>>>>> ????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
>>>>> ????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
>>>>> ????>>?HDMI?...
>>>>> ????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
>>>>> ????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
>>>>> ????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
>>>>> ????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
>>>>> ????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
>>>>> ????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
>>>>> ????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
>>>>> ????>?immediately.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
>>>>> ????impressive?thing.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
>>>>> ????lighting.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
>>>>> ????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
>>>>> ????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
>>>>> ????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
>>>>> ????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
>>>>> ????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
>>>>> ????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
>>>>> ????>
>>>>> ????>???????????????-Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Hi?Radu,
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
>>>>> ????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
>>>>> ????to?sell.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
>>>>> ????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
>>>>> ????liking?it.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
>>>>> ????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
>>>>> ????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
>>>>> ????one?effectively?yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
>>>>> ????most?sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
>>>>> ????and?quality?will
>>>>> ????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
>>>>> ????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
>>>>> ????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
>>>>> ????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
>>>>> ????solder?paste,?etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> ????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
>>>>> ????--?????John?Griessen
>>>>> ????Albuquerque?NM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
|
And that, my dear sir, is exactly why I wrote the program.
Please contact me off? list.? I didn't exactly design some of this for public consumption (mostly the Embarcadaro stuff), and you'll need the libraries I've created.
Haven't tried to rehost it, so it'll be an experience.
madyn@...
Harvey
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/18/2025 4:59 PM, David McQuate via groups.io wrote:
I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used Visual Studio. ?I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7. ?I use SCAD for 3D printing and also for general 3D modeling. ?Your program seems like a natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that done by JLCPCB. ?Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
David
On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project. It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else.
It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own.
How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)?
Harvey
ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture.
On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via?groups.io?wrote:
I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand. I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????--?????John?Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
On 3/18/25 14:53, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally? Don't grab it, just try it some and see how wide the eyepiece viewing angle is... When it's narrow you get neck strain quickly keeping your eyes just perfectly located.
|
On 3/18/25 14:53, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally? Fine except for trinocular head is good to have.
|
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 03:34 PM, Philip Freidin wrote:
And if you do get a trinocular you will be real
disappointed to discover that when you enable the camera optical path,
you lose the stereo vision path.
?
This is not true for all trinocular microscopes, it depends on the model. On mine, both the eyepieces and the camera port are always active at the same time. AmScope calls it "Simul-Focal". I believe you do lose some brightness from that, but I guess that means I just turn up the lighting.
?
Unless you are planning to make youtube videos, don't pay extra for a
trinocular microscope.
?
The cost of a trinocular head is negligible compared to the cost of the microscope. At most $40 of a $600+ expense. For me, having the flexibility in the future was more important than saving less than $40.
?
I did a quick scan of Amazon, and it seems
all the boom arm stereo microscopes are trinocular.
?
I recommend buying from a more specialized source, that way you can get exactly what you want, and actually get what you ordered. (For example, on AmScope's site, you can get a binocular boom arm stereo microscope, if that's what you want.)
|
I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used Visual Studio. ?I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7. ?I use SCAD for 3D printing and also for general 3D modeling. ?Your program seems like a natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that done by JLCPCB. ?Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.? It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library. As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else. It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own. How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)? Harvey ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture. On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via?groups.io?wrote:
I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????--?????John?Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally??
I’d like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On 2025-03-17 20:01, Harvey White wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope. I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well. I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place. if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD.? That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part. that?might?help?a?bit. Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle. Harvey On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via??wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via??<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.? It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else.
It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own.
How are you with C++ (Embarcadero C++ community version)?
Harvey
ps: I can attach a picture.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/17/2025 11:29 PM, David McQuate via groups.io wrote:
I’d like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On 2025-03-17 20:01, Harvey White wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
Another +1 for Metcal. I use an SP200 for hand assembly; these are fantastic.
Interestingly, the designer of the SP200 is on this mailing list.
-Dave
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On 3/18/25 04:42, Wilko Bulte via groups.io wrote: Let me do a +1 for the Metcal soldering station suggestion. I have 2 older MX500 stations, those are the 13.5MHz version. Two-handed soldering can be quite useful and works fine using my full optical, prisma equipped stereo microscope (no LCD, no electronics, just glassware ;-)
Do note that the cartridges/tips used determine the tip temperature (essentially the Curie temperature of the tip), no adjustment necessary or possible. They are relatively costly, especially for specialised tips. I was very lucky to find a large stash of tips advertised in Germany, which I bought a substantial part of for real good prices. In retrospect, I have bough the whole lot..
Wilko
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
I’d like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
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On 2025-03-17 20:01, Harvey White wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope. I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well. I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place. if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD.? That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part. that?might?help?a?bit. Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle. Harvey On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
On 2025-03-18 02:27, Steve Hendrix wrote:
On
2025-03-17 2:59 PM, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote:
Probably a stupid question, but I know
nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working
well for people wearing glasses?
I personally wear bifocals. I take them off when using the
microscope, to allow my eyes to get close enough to see the full
field of view. It just shift the optimum focus for me, from what's
optimum for my tech. Not a big issue.
That approach does not, of course compensate for astigmatism, so
if you have significant astigmatism you might do better with
glasses on.
Steve Hendrix
I always had +2d astigmatism in both eyes. A nice gift from my
father (instrument maker), 50 years ago, was an astigmatic
correction lens for my camera's ocular so I could take pictures
without glasses but still with sharp and full field vision. It was
made to screw in the eye-shield thread on top of the ocular.
A set of lenses in that shape and size should fit on a microscope
ocular. But where to obtain them, given an eye correction recipe?
Arie
|
Let me do a +1 for the Metcal soldering station suggestion. I have 2 older MX500 stations, those are the 13.5MHz version. Two-handed soldering can be quite useful and works fine using my full optical, prisma equipped stereo microscope (no LCD, no electronics, just glassware ;-)
Do note that the cartridges/tips used determine the tip temperature (essentially the Curie temperature of the tip), no adjustment necessary or possible. They are relatively costly, especially for specialised tips. I was very lucky to find a large stash of tips advertised in Germany, which I bought a substantial part of for real good prices. In retrospect, I have bough the whole lot..
Wilko
|
FWIW, I wear glasses with built in prisms. I take them off when using my microscope. If you can try the Nikon before buying with and without glasses, then that would be nice. Also make sure you have ample lighting. Ring leds or such.
|
Steve Holland
Dave McGuire
Arie de Muijnck
Anders