Re: HP 8341A how to install attenuator
Thank's for the information,? finally we have succeed? ?comparing one 8341A with another having an attenuator, now the unit control the attenuator nicely, obviously the explanation in service manual are quite obscure for me and it is quite difficult to understand how to compute the value to store.
but finally I have done it thank's for your explanations
ON1EV
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Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Thank your for valuable notes.
What I did try yesterday was to clear DTR (PC) <-> CTS(SA) and set RTS (PC) <-> DCD (SA) but I didn't observed the L letter on bottom left but nothing.?
I'll try the COPY option you suggested to check if I can receive data.?
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Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Correction – to the lines in the
message below
?
To get an L, SA CTS must
not be asserted, because T will obscure the L.
Then SA DCD must be asserted (+).
?
If both CTS and DCD
on the SA are asserted, i.e. when the pc port is open normally, only T will
appear
?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of k1ggi
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023
10:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
?
Ok, getting the T is reassuring.
?
To get an L, SA RTS must not be asserted,
because T will obscure the L.
Then SA DCD must be asserted (+).
?
If both RTS and DCD on the SA are
asserted, i.e. when the pc port is open normally, only T will appear.
?
Please look at the voltage.
?
Do you see a positive voltage on SA DCD
(DB25 pin 8)? (produced when pc RTS is asserted on pc DE9 pin 7)
?
That is necessary for commands to be
recognized by the SA.
?
I have option 043, your option 023 may
behave differently, but if you can configure your COPY button to plot to rs232
in CONFIG, then the SA should be able to transmit rs232 data when you press
COPY, regardless of whether it can receive rs232 commands.
So then if you see the T, with your
RealTerm port open, pressing COPY should transmit a lengthy burst of ascii plot
data that should be displayed by RealTerm. That may be worth trying.
?
I’m still not sure if your pc
usb-rs232 adapter needs its DSR (DE9 pin6) asserted in order to transmit.
I’m suspicious that the chip may need that control signal asserted in
hardware even if the RealTerm software application is configured for no
hardware flow control. My FTDI adapter does not. Try tying the adapter pin 6 to
pin 8 (both driven by SA DTR pin 20).
?
Ed
?
Just a correction here.
The connections I have made are:
SA? ?
? ? ? ? ? PC (USB RS232 adapter)
P5. CTS?
? ? DTR? ?(measured -6V coming from the adapter)
P20. DTR?
?CTS
So when I said that I set DTR I meant DTR on PC side which is connected to CTS
on SA. So when I set SA DTR thus the CTS on SA side I see the T letter on bottom
left of the SA screen.
When I set or clear RTS on PC thus DCD on SA side oI can't notice any
difference or the L letter appearing.?
In both options and all possible combinations of DTR & RTS in PC side I
couldn't manage to send any commands and receive a response.?
I tried the following commands:
IP;
ID;
SNGLS;
*IDN?
|
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Ok, getting the T is reassuring.
?
To get an L, SA RTS must not be asserted,
because T will obscure the L.
Then SA DCD must be asserted (+).
?
If both RTS and DCD on the SA are asserted,
i.e. when the pc port is open normally, only T will appear.
?
Please look at the voltage.
?
Do you see a positive voltage on SA DCD (DB25
pin 8)? (produced when pc RTS is asserted on pc DE9 pin 7)
?
That is necessary for commands to be
recognized by the SA.
?
I have option 043, your option 023 may
behave differently, but if you can configure your COPY button to plot to rs232
in CONFIG, then the SA should be able to transmit rs232 data when you press
COPY, regardless of whether it can receive rs232 commands.
So then if you see the T, with your
RealTerm port open, pressing COPY should transmit a lengthy burst of ascii plot
data that should be displayed by RealTerm. That may be worth trying.
?
I’m still not sure if your pc usb-rs232
adapter needs its DSR (DE9 pin6) asserted in order to transmit. I’m
suspicious that the chip may need that control signal asserted in hardware even
if the RealTerm software application is configured for no hardware flow control.
My FTDI adapter does not. Try tying the adapter pin 6 to pin 8 (both driven by
SA DTR pin 20).
?
Ed
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of candrian
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 4:05
PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
?
Just a correction here.
The connections I have made are:
SA? ?
? ? ? ? ? PC (USB RS232 adapter)
P5. CTS?
? ? DTR? ?(measured -6V coming from the adapter)
P20. DTR?
?CTS
So when I said that I set DTR I meant DTR on PC side which is connected to CTS
on SA. So when I set SA DTR thus the CTS on SA side I see the T letter on
bottom left of the SA screen.
When I set or clear RTS on PC thus DCD on SA side oI can't notice any
difference or the L letter appearing.?
In both options and all possible combinations of DTR & RTS in PC side I
couldn't manage to send any commands and receive a response.?
I tried the following commands:
IP;
ID;
SNGLS;
*IDN?
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Re: Firmware for HP 54200D
One more discovery on this - it appears that the D-version (54200D) and A-version (54200A) used the same EPROM set. I have found the same labels in pictures online of motherboards from both versions, and the newer ROM images that I loaded onto my unit are actually from a 54200A but work on my 54200D. So, if you have a 54200A or a 54200D, I am asking pretty please if you can check if you have the EPROMs labeled 54200-80022 through 54200-80028 and if so could you please dump them.
Thanks again and in advance,
Matthew D'Asaro
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Hi All Ok about the acronyms? ? We had RPG? Rotary Pulse Generator ?apparently this is the HMI control knob ??Human machine interface (a Knob ) or as I know it ?RPE ?rotary pulse encoder RUD? new one for me ?but ok ? Regarding the voltage on a Yig basically providing the main votes are on it they normally work? but reference to the Plug in Maine output mudded the waters? Hens talking about setting up the multiplier yig assembly ? but as it was a parts Kit? that there could have been an issue with the Yig drive voltage as no output in the range 2-6 Ghz ? Roberto I do not know your outlay but I would strongly suggest you do not butcher it ( pull it apart ) As in the long term you will regret it Ar you still running the 8350 frame of several power supplies as that would be my number one repair and go shopping for another plug in Just a bit of information I have a 8350 that has given big problems as I didn’t realise the socket interface between plug in and 8350 was corroded on the 8350 Best of luck ? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Lee
Sent: 14 March 2023 17:22
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*? Or rocket-propelled grenade, in another profession. In certain circumstances both can undergo rapid uncontrolled disassembly (RUD). Tom Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity ? Dear, RPG stand for "Rotary Pulse Generator". This is the endless knob on front panel for changing parameters. ? Il Mar 14 Mar 2023, 17:57 Bruce <bruce@...> ha scritto: Don -
Thanks - I have not played much with the 8350 plug YIGS (mostly 834X?
stuff) - good information to know.
I do find it a bit surprising though.? Reasoning is as follows,?
correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Frequency is primarily determined by main coil current
2) Remaining voltages supply the oscillator and amp (if there is one)?
- they do not vary with frequency (true ??)
3) The linearization is primarily a shaping function on the main coil current.
So I would expect that if the main coil current were within the?
expected limits and the other voltages were correct, the YIG would?
have output.? Thoughts??
Cheers and thanks for the insight.
Bruce
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting "Don Bitters via " <donbitters=[email protected]>:
> Absolutely yes! I have been there on this issue. Even a brand new?
> one from the factory may not give an output, or a very low output?
> until it is aligned with the proper endpoint drive voltages.
>
> Don Bitters
>
>
>
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Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Just a correction here. The connections I have made are:
SA? ? ? ? ? ? ? PC (USB RS232 adapter)
P5. CTS? ? ? DTR? ?(measured -6V coming from the adapter)
P20. DTR? ?CTS
So when I said that I set DTR I meant DTR on PC side which is connected to CTS on SA. So when I set SA DTR thus the CTS on SA side I see the T letter on bottom left of the SA screen.
When I set or clear RTS on PC thus DCD on SA side oI can't notice any difference or the L letter appearing.?
In both options and all possible combinations of DTR & RTS in PC side I couldn't manage to send any commands and receive a response.?
I tried the following commands:
IP;
ID;
SNGLS;
*IDN?
|
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
I just run a test regarding your notes.
You are correct when I set the DTR (+VE) from RealTerm I can see a T visible on the bottom right of the SA screen which I didn't notice in the past. When i clear DTR the T disappears.?
CTS and DCD are marked in green to RealTerm which means they are set. Both signals are input to the PC.
I have not managed yet to change the T to L and see if it can receive any data
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Or rocket-propelled grenade, in another profession.
In certain circumstances both can undergo rapid uncontrolled disassembly (RUD).
Tom Sent from my iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity
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On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:07, Roberto Vegliach <roberto.vegliach@...> wrote:
? Dear, RPG stand for "Rotary Pulse Generator". This is the endless knob on front panel for changing parameters. Regards. Il Mar 14 Mar 2023, 17:57 Bruce < bruce@...> ha scritto: Don -
Thanks - I have not played much with the 8350 plug YIGS (mostly 834X?
stuff) - good information to know.
I do find it a bit surprising though.? Reasoning is as follows,?
correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Frequency is primarily determined by main coil current
2) Remaining voltages supply the oscillator and amp (if there is one)?
- they do not vary with frequency (true ??)
3) The linearization is primarily a shaping function on the main coil current.
So I would expect that if the main coil current were within the?
expected limits and the other voltages were correct, the YIG would?
have output.? Thoughts??
Cheers and thanks for the insight.
Bruce
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting "Don Bitters via " <donbitters=[email protected]>:
> Absolutely yes! I have been there on this issue. Even a brand new?
> one from the factory may not give an output, or a very low output?
> until it is aligned with the proper endpoint drive voltages.
>
> Don Bitters
>
>
>
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Dear, RPG stand for "Rotary Pulse Generator". This is the endless knob on front panel for changing parameters. Regards.
Il Mar 14 Mar 2023, 17:57 Bruce < bruce@...> ha scritto: Don -
Thanks - I have not played much with the 8350 plug YIGS (mostly 834X?
stuff) - good information to know.
I do find it a bit surprising though.? Reasoning is as follows,?
correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Frequency is primarily determined by main coil current
2) Remaining voltages supply the oscillator and amp (if there is one)?
- they do not vary with frequency (true ??)
3) The linearization is primarily a shaping function on the main coil current.
So I would expect that if the main coil current were within the?
expected limits and the other voltages were correct, the YIG would?
have output.? Thoughts??
Cheers and thanks for the insight.
Bruce
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting "Don Bitters via " <donbitters=[email protected]>:
> Absolutely yes! I have been there on this issue. Even a brand new?
> one from the factory may not give an output, or a very low output?
> until it is aligned with the proper endpoint drive voltages.
>
> Don Bitters
>
>
>
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Don -
Thanks - I have not played much with the 8350 plug YIGS (mostly 834X stuff) - good information to know.
I do find it a bit surprising though. Reasoning is as follows, correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Frequency is primarily determined by main coil current
2) Remaining voltages supply the oscillator and amp (if there is one) - they do not vary with frequency (true ??)
3) The linearization is primarily a shaping function on the main coil current.
So I would expect that if the main coil current were within the expected limits and the other voltages were correct, the YIG would have output. Thoughts??
Cheers and thanks for the insight.
Bruce
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting "Don Bitters via groups.io" <donbitters@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Absolutely yes! I have been there on this issue. Even a brand new one from the factory may not give an output, or a very low output until it is aligned with the proper endpoint drive voltages.
Don Bitters
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Ruben - The RPE is likely to be an easy fix - there is an incandescent lamp that illuminates the rotating defraction grid. It can be replaced by either another lamp (available on E-bay and other places) or with an LED. Cheers! Bruce Quoting Paul Bicknell <admin@...>:
Hi from an earlier posting there might be confusion PCB stands for printed circuit board
But RPG is a new one for me are you referring to the plug in Key pad ?
As far as I can remember there is not a list of calibration constants for this instrument
Paul
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of RubenRubio
Sent: 14 March 2023 11:04
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Hello again:
I assume that 'CCT' stands for calibration constants. I haven't that table. As I told you, I have only the OSM available on Keysight site, which is the same in the files section here. Don't find any calibration constants, sorry. If anybody have them and want to share, it would be perfect. I assume that entering cal constants in this machine have similar procedure as other instruments like the 8341A, in any case, you can tell me how to do it.
The parts purchased matches A model, the only difference is the front panel. It belongs to a rear output unit, so I have to drill a hole for N connector. As far as I know, there's only mechanical differences.
Also, the 'unleveled' LED is on during sweeps and RPG don't response, I can change the output power display using the mainframe entry keyboard. I have to check the RPG at some point.
Still reading the service manual for mA/Hz table. Not found. Now I'm reading the adjustments section, just in case. Adjustment 5.3 'YO and SYTM DAC calibration' seems interesting, but still thinking those parts were on the same plugin, so they must be paired.
I'm a bit lost now...
Regards,
Ruben
|
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Thank you for response.?
The translator is an old Chinese one blocked by Windows but there is a workaround to install older drivers and make it work. That is what I had available at the time. I did test?the USB-RS232 translator with a loop back connection and it's ok.?
I used Realterm. So it looks like the HP is not responding.?
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Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.
Hi.
Who's chipset is used in your USB-Serial adapter??? If it is FTDI, good.? Anything else, especially Prolific, can be "troublesome" to say the least.? Unless you take a lot of extra steps and precautions re drivers, and virtual port assignment rules.
The first thing usually to do when embarking on anything with Serial data exchange/remote control, is fit a "Loopback connector" at the PC's serial port, and see if you can talk to yourself!
TX-RX
RTS-CTS
DTE-DCE-DSR
if that doesn't work, you have some detective work to do before you go further.
I can highly recommend the below for Windows users.
Terminal BPP
(This can do quite involved semi automated scripting too, when you get used to it!)
And "CuteComm" for Linux users.
Or, as it is cross platform, working largely the same everywhere, PuTTY? (That does so much more than just serial communications too!)?? Very good, but a steep learning curve.
Whatever you use, if you are using Windows, make sure nothing else has grabbed the virtual port the USB driver creates (and that you actually know what COMx is assigned* to it (Never assume!) and that no privacy settings are blocking Serial Traffic either!
* On Windows and Linux, the virtual com/device port assignment can and often does change, seemingly at random if for whatever reason the OS has to "Re Scan" and identify new USB devices.??? This is another problem for Prolific and many other chipsets, as they do not have a unique identifying value in their device descriptor.? FTDI devices have a unique Serial Number, that you can use to nail the virtual port's feet to the ground, but that is beyond the scope of things at present.
One step at a time, and if you do not have the user/remote control manual for the SA, you do need to find one.?? Even in the HP family, the differences between even similar instruments can be minor or extreme.? Either way, they can be a show stopper.
That was more than I expected to say, but hope something helps.
Dave G8KBV
(Who's spent far too much time over the years getting older kit to work with newer computers for past customers...)
--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
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Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Hi from an earlier posting there might be confusion PCB stands for printed circuit board ? ? But ?RPG is a new one for me ?are you referring to the plug in Key pad ? ? As far as I can remember there is not a list of calibration constants for this instrument Paul ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of RubenRubio
Sent: 14 March 2023 11:04
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue* ? Hello again:
I assume that 'CCT' stands for calibration constants. I haven't that table. As I told you, I have only the OSM available on Keysight site, which is the same in the files section here. Don't find any calibration constants, sorry. If anybody have them and want to share, it would be perfect. I assume that entering cal constants in this machine have similar procedure as other instruments like the 8341A, in any case, you can tell me how to do it.
The parts purchased matches A model, the only difference is the front panel. It belongs to a rear output unit, so I have to drill a hole for N connector. As far as I know, there's only mechanical differences.
Also, the 'unleveled' LED is on during sweeps and RPG don't response, I can change the output power display using the mainframe entry keyboard. I have to check the RPG at some point.
Still reading the service manual for mA/Hz table. Not found. Now I'm reading the adjustments section, just in case. Adjustment 5.3 'YO and SYTM DAC calibration' seems interesting, but still thinking those parts were on the same plugin, so they must be paired.
I'm a bit lost now...
Regards,
Ruben
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
? No CCT Dues NOT stand for calibration constants ? CCT ?Stands for Circuit Diagram? in the old days HP included them in the Service manual ?later on they were sold separately as CLIPS component level information packs ? Regarding the service manual on this site yes it is the one from the HP site as I am the one that put it onto this sight for you ? The adjustments on the PCB for a yig change over time and thus require realigning and it is this process you have to go through But start with voltage and ripple calibration in the sweeper main frame then get the main 2 – 6 Ghz yig working ? I assume you have taken the top of the sweeper and doing your repair work with the module inside the sweeper If you are using an extender cable for the plug in or an extender for the PCB you may have to do a final calibration with it all assembled ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of RubenRubio
Sent: 14 March 2023 11:04
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue* ? Hello again:
I assume that 'CCT' stands for calibration constants. I haven't that table. As I told you, I have only the OSM available on Keysight site, which is the same in the files section here. Don't find any calibration constants, sorry. If anybody have them and want to share, it would be perfect. I assume that entering cal constants in this machine have similar procedure as other instruments like the 8341A, in any case, you can tell me how to do it.
The parts purchased matches A model, the only difference is the front panel. It belongs to a rear output unit, so I have to drill a hole for N connector. As far as I know, there's only mechanical differences.
Also, the 'unleveled' LED is on during sweeps and RPG don't response, I can change the output power display using the mainframe entry keyboard. I have to check the RPG at some point.
Still reading the service manual for mA/Hz table. Not found. Now I'm reading the adjustments section, just in case. Adjustment 5.3 'YO and SYTM DAC calibration' seems interesting, but still thinking those parts were on the same plugin, so they must be paired.
I'm a bit lost now...
Regards,
Ruben
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Hello again:
I assume that 'CCT' stands for calibration constants. I haven't that table. As I told you, I have only the OSM available on Keysight site, which is the same in the files section here. Don't find any calibration constants, sorry. If anybody have them and want to share, it would be perfect. I assume that entering cal constants in this machine have similar procedure as other instruments like the 8341A, in any case, you can tell me how to do it.
The parts purchased matches A model, the only difference is the front panel. It belongs to a rear output unit, so I have to drill a hole for N connector. As far as I know, there's only mechanical differences.
Also, the 'unleveled' LED is on during sweeps and RPG don't response, I can change the output power display using the mainframe entry keyboard. I have to check the RPG at some point.
Still reading the service manual for mA/Hz table. Not found. Now I'm reading the adjustments section, just in case. Adjustment 5.3 'YO and SYTM DAC calibration' seems interesting, but still thinking those parts were on the same plugin, so they must be paired.
I'm a bit lost now...
Regards,
Ruben
|
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*
Absolutely yes! I have been there on this issue. Even a brand new one from the factory may not give an output, or a very low output until it is aligned with the proper endpoint drive voltages.
Don Bitters
|
Comparing the older electromechanical attenuators with the newer circuit card attenuators, I saw several failures on the circuit card. I never saw a schematic for the card and could not pry the info from HP-Agilent-Keysight (HPAK). Thank you to whoever posted the schematic.
The newer style does not have the make-break switch springs used by the solenoid.
I believe some of the IC’s on the circuit brd. are latches doing the same thing that the switch springs were doing. I would check the same point that you checked previously and got a low voltage but still had a 70 ma current. Is it an AC voltage? The solenoids are DC and will not work with an AC drive. That would account for the low voltage and high current. A simple answer would be a shorted latch or high ripple on the V+ to the attenuator.
Don Bitters
|
The 2 push rods on each attenuator/solenoid assembly have ball and notch rings under the ball that fits into a keyhole slot on the contact flap. The key to disengaging the push rod from the flap is with the attenuator in the 70dB mode (top assembly with all the pads on it off, all the contact fingers will be up in the air), take a dental pick or tweezers, and from the under side of the flap gently push the raised push rod end towards the ball end of the keyhole slot, when you have it aligned you should be able to lift the flap from the push rod with the dental pick.
Don Bitters
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medasaro
Paul Bicknell
RubenRubio