Re: 8560E New to Me: Some Issues & Questions
It IS a CRT problem, ?the first signs of cathode poisoning are the text characters going soft. ? The characters are drawn as vectors not as a bitmap and a raster scan. ? Hence the distortion seen on the screen as the electron gun can longer generate a tight beam of electrons.
The HP CRT¡¯s were incredible to look at when new but the design of the tube is unique to HP and it has a fatal flaw which shows up after years of service. ? Unfortunately NOS tubes and good used tubes are approaching and in many cases surpassing the price of the Newscope upgrades.
I think you will find that after doing the 15 page CRT alignment process that your 8560E will have the same symptoms as before.
Here¡¯s an article from another member here describing the failure?
Content by Scott Typos by Siri
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I have two of these. One has the conventional xxxxAxxxxx SN and the other has a USxxxxxx label over where the normal label is located. The latter unit has been repaired, though it did not look to be the quality of work I'd expect from HP as lots of flux residue was left on the board which actually made it non-functional as received from eBay. Fortunately, cleaning with isopropyl solved the problem.
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Re: 8560E New to Me: Some Issues & Questions
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 09:42 AM, tmillermdems wrote:
Have you done the 7 pages of adjustments for the display calibration?
Not yet. Have not yet removed the case - trying to think through the possibilities before I start changing things. I have the manual, but I don't have the arsenal of test gear recommended in the manual and am probably not going to have this gear in the foreseeable future. I may resort to winging it a bit.
Are there differences in brightness of horizontal vs. vertical strokes? I'd be quite curious what you find.
No - straight lines, whether vertical, horizontal or diagonal are uniformly bright. RB
?
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Re: 8560E New to Me: Some Issues & Questions
At 2018-11-05 12:07 PM, Rick Boswell wrote:
So ¡ what does this all mean? A
SWAG on my part, but it looks to me like something is out of adjustment
with the Z axis signal from the character generator. (Not yet sure just
how this works.) It wouldn¡¯t seem to be a CRT problem as it is limited to
just the text characters. Any insights from the pros
here?
I'm not familiar with this particular unit, but have a basic familiarity
with the hardware needed to generate vector characters. I'd be looking
for a bad cap where the slew rate of the X and Y axes are controlled,
probably two identical caps with similar failures. If the slew rate isn't
controlled, the beam jumps from endpoint to endpoint,
"painting" very little light in the middle. Hmmm....I can see
counterarguments against my analysis too. Are there differences in
brightness of horizontal vs. vertical strokes? I'd be quite curious what
you find.
Steve Hendrix
|
Re: 8560E New to Me: Some Issues & Questions
?
Hi Rick,
?
Have you done the 7 pages of adjustments for the display
calibration? The service manual is available at Keysight.
?
I have no idea how you will measure 15 NITs without a Tek
J16-TV photometer/radiometer :).
?
If after you go through the adjustment you still have a
problem it most likely means you need a new CRT.
?
Regards
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2018 12:07
PM
Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8560E New to Me: Some Issues &
Questions
I have done some limited
additional troubleshooting (mainly by observing more carefully what I am
seeing on the screen.) Here is what I have found:
1.??????
Only the alphanumeric
characters seem to have a problem of non-uniform intensity of the strokes
which form each character, and this seems most apparent on the curved portions
of characters like ¡°0¡±, ¡°5¡±, ¡°P¡±, etc.?
Characters formed by straight line segments do not exhibit the
intensity variation.
2.??????
The graticule lines
and signal traces are sharp and clear with no apparent intensity variation or
distortion.
3.??????
The alphanumeric
characters become no longer visible as the intensity is reduced from maximum
(255) toward zero at a still relatively high intensity levels (say, 100),
while the graticule lines and signal traces remain visible, sharp, and
undistorted until the intensity setting nears zero.
4.??????
When the ¡°SCREEN
TITLE¡± function is turned on, a complete list of characters appears on the
screen to allow a title to be composed. The character currently selected
appears at a higher intensity than the other characters. As the controls are
used to step through the characters, each character is intensified in turn. A
the intensified level of brightness, the non-uniform intensity described above
is not seen. IOW, all characters are uniformly bright.
5.??????
The ¡°CRT ADJ PATTERN¡±
brought up via the ¡°CAL¡± button appears as shown in the service manual, except
that the numbers in the center box exhibit the non-uniform intensity described
above.
6.??????
The symptoms described
are seen everywhere a character appears on the screen and are not related to
any specific screen position.
7.??????
I have no idea when
this instrument was last adjusted or cal¡¯d. No stickers of any kind on the
exterior.
?
So ¡ what does this all mean? A
SWAG on my part, but it looks to me like something is out of adjustment with
the Z axis signal from the character generator. (Not yet sure just how this
works.) It wouldn¡¯t seem to be a CRT problem as it is limited to just the text
characters. Any insights from the pros here?
|
Re: 8560E New to Me: Some Issues & Questions
I have done some limited additional troubleshooting (mainly by observing more carefully what I am seeing on the screen.) Here is what I have found:
1.?????? Only the alphanumeric characters seem to have a problem of non-uniform intensity of the strokes which form each character, and this seems most apparent on the curved portions of characters like ¡°0¡±, ¡°5¡±, ¡°P¡±, etc.? Characters formed by straight line segments do not exhibit the intensity variation.
2.?????? The graticule lines and signal traces are sharp and clear with no apparent intensity variation or distortion.
3.?????? The alphanumeric characters become no longer visible as the intensity is reduced from maximum (255) toward zero at a still relatively high intensity levels (say, 100), while the graticule lines and signal traces remain visible, sharp, and undistorted until the intensity setting nears zero.
4.?????? When the ¡°SCREEN TITLE¡± function is turned on, a complete list of characters appears on the screen to allow a title to be composed. The character currently selected appears at a higher intensity than the other characters. As the controls are used to step through the characters, each character is intensified in turn. A the intensified level of brightness, the non-uniform intensity described above is not seen. IOW, all characters are uniformly bright.
5.?????? The ¡°CRT ADJ PATTERN¡± brought up via the ¡°CAL¡± button appears as shown in the service manual, except that the numbers in the center box exhibit the non-uniform intensity described above.
6.?????? The symptoms described are seen everywhere a character appears on the screen and are not related to any specific screen position.
7.?????? I have no idea when this instrument was last adjusted or cal¡¯d. No stickers of any kind on the exterior.
?
So ¡ what does this all mean? A SWAG on my part, but it looks to me like something is out of adjustment with the Z axis signal from the character generator. (Not yet sure just how this works.) It wouldn¡¯t seem to be a CRT problem as it is limited to just the text characters. Any insights from the pros here?
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
On 11/5/18 9:25 AM, Daun Yeagley wrote: I use the Aqua Mail app. on my Android, and it too will resize for you
and give you choices as to how much compression to use. Hey, me too, great stuff! (and thank heaven for IMAP..) -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
|
Don, Thanks for the suggestions. Please see my replies below: Mike,
I believe I have an 853A/8559A system, but I have not touched it in years.
To get back to the problem, you said that you have no display - no display as
in a totally blank display with no freq., span, sweep time, etc. indications -
then check the supplies in the mainframe, or no display as in no signals
displayed, just the displayed noise floor. Mike: I have a display with no signals displayed. The freq, span, sweep, atten, etc, seem to work. In the 3MHz bw, 10MHz span, 10dB/div, 10dB atten. settings you should see the noise floor about -50, -60dB down from top 0dB reference. Mike: I see the noise floor at the bottom of the display -80dBm level. Tune the freq. down through 0Hz in >10MHz span/div or in full span. You should see the L.O. feed through signal at about -25 to -35dBm level, if it is significantly higher than that, probable zapped first mixer. Mike: I don't se the L.O. feed through any more. If noise floor but no signal of any kind then there are RF or IF path signal problems. You can check 1st, 2nd, 3rd L.O. power levels and freq. with another SA or power meter. You can also signal inject the 3rd IF (21.4MHz) via the jumpers or smb connectors on the top of the 8559A. Tuning around the IF freq. of 21.4MHz will get you baseline lift to the ref line of the display. You can then check the atten., ref level per div and linear scaling and steps. This is best done with the manual and block diagrams in front of you. Mike: I'll start to check it out. Can I do these checks with just the top cover removed from the case? I don't have any card extenders, I have repaired, aligned, calibrated over 100 of this series SA¡¯s over the
last 40yrs.
If you need further assistance you may text me back using the forum or my
email.
Don Bitters Mike: Depending on what I find I will reply directly or via the forum.
|
Re: HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive?
Nigel,
For the 85B you will still need the Extended Mass Storage ROM to support the SS/80 devices, the built in ROM only supports Amigo devices.
Two of the ROM modules that you need to make this work in a plain 85 do not exist as modules you can plug into a 82936A ROM card the 85B mass storage and Electronic Disk ROMs where only made as mask programed ROMs in DIP packages that plugged into the main board of a 85B, this is why EPROM boards are now used along with some ROMs being very scarce.
You should also beware that the ROMs for the later 86/87 machines are in a similar package to the ROMs for the 85, but are not compatible, they should all be marked with part numbers and the ROMs for 85s all start with 00085-.
I agree on the tape drive, the only reason for getting it to work would be for complete restoration, they are not really useful as a storage device compared to diskettes. ? The draw back for hard disks is the fact that the 85 only has a flat file system which is very limiting on a disk.
Paul.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2018-11-05 8:14 AM, nigel adams wrote: Hi Paul,
Many thanks for that. Most useful.
The units are a mix of 85 and 85B (have four of them...)
Therefore I assume it is OK just to connect them to the 85B and it should work (if I add the GPIB interface).
However, I also have a box of ROMs and the ROM drawers with the plain one.. But they are all loose/mixed up.
Are you able to tell me which ROM would be required in a drawer for a plain 85 to work with these floppy/hard drive combo's?
Then I can sort through, populate the drawers (assuming I have the right ones!) and try it.
I really don't want to use the tape drive if I can avoid it.
Any help is most welcome - thanks again in anticipation.
Regards
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: 01 November 2018 15:34
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive?
Short answer yes it is possible.? There is however an issue if the 85 in
question is an 85A.? The 9122 devices follow the SS/80 command standard
which was never formally supported on the 85A, the mass storage ROM for
85A only supports Amigo devices like 9121 and 9895.? The 85B had an
extended mass storage ROM that supports SS/80 devices, but it is
dependent on a couple ROMs that are built into the 85B.? The solution
that is available now is in the form of ROM cards that take EPROMs? so
you can burn the images of the 85B Mass Storage, Electronic Disk and
Extended Mass Storage into EPROMs and it will work just fine in an 85A.
? When I got a 85A one of the first things I did was build a ROM card
primarily for this purpose, and there is at least one other design.
Information about my designs can be found at
<> there are two similar designs
the first was designed specifically for 85A, but when I got an 86B I
found it was not as flexible as I had planned so I created a modified
version. ? I have never got around to laying out a PCB for either of
these.?? At you will
find information about another design and the creator of this one does
produce PCB as well as assembled units periodically.
Paul.
On 2018-11-01 11:06 AM, nigel adams wrote:
Dear Friends of the supreme knowledge,
I have a couple of the single/double FDD/HDD variations of this style of unit.
My question is if anyone knows if they can be used with the HP85 computer...?
What do I need, is there any special s/w required and if so does anyone know where to source it.
Essentially I want to use these in place of the little tape drives internal to the HP85 which are past their best.
All help advice welcome..
Regards
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: 31 October 2018 01:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive?
Further to my previous comments the two drive I modified to work on a
9122C are a Panasonic JU-257A606P and a YE Data YD-702D-6037D.? One
thing you may encounter there are later versions of both of these drives
that have less configuration options and will not be suitable.? On the
YE Data drive I had to put a wire jumper on the board to get all the
signals out that are required, I believe I may have had to do that with
the Panasonic drive as well.? I happened to have several 1.44 diskette
drives handy to experiment with.? You will probably have better luck
with older drives, it seems a lot of the more recent ones are tailored
for PC and have little in the way on configuration options.? The HP
drives also have the power integrated into the signal cable so I made up
a little interposer to go between the cable and the drive to break out
the power and also to remap some of the pins.
The service guide for the 9122C can be found at
and it contains a pinout of the drive cable connector which can help
guide you to adapting a drive.
While I know nothing about the instrument you are trying to connect to,
it may be that it is trying to format the diskettes at 256 bytes /
sector and if the diskettes have been formatted differently before it
may take a few tries before it is successful, bulk erasing the diskette
first can be helpful for this.
Paul.
On 2018-10-30 7:52 PM, Paul Berger wrote:
With a little work certain 1.44 drives can be made to work in a 9122C
the usual stumbling block is the controller in the 9122 wants to see
the ready signal, but I did manage to make a couple drives work, but
don't have the models handy.
The 9122D is a different story, it uses 720K drives that turn at 600
RPM and unlike most other 3.5 diskette drives.? There where two
versions of drives used. The earlier models used a full high drive
with a square eject button on the bottom right of the drive, about the
only place you can get replacements for this drive is from other
9122S/D units or there where also a couple disk/ diskette combo units
that used these drives.? The newer version is a half high drive with a
rectangular eject button at the bottom right, this drive was used in a
lot of HP equipment so replacements are easier to find.? One of the
prevalent problems with these drives and especially the full high
versions is lubricants used on the load/eject mechanism dry and
becomes gummy and the diskettes do not load or eject properly and it
is dangerous because the upper head may not retract properly and if
you pull out the diskette when it is like this the upper head will
come out with it.? I would strongly recommend you open the units and
do a general inspect, clean and lube.
Paul.
On 2018-10-30 7:39 PM, David Feldman via Groups.Io wrote:
I ended up with both HP 9122C and 9122D (dual floppy drive) units.
Both are recognized by my 8753 network analyzer (up to the point that
setting incorrect GPIB address and setting incorrect disc/volume
number has the expected error message results), all four drives make
familiar sounds during power-up and normal operation, however, only
one of the drives (in the 9122C) can read a diskette (list files on
the media), and none can write or initialize diskettes. I am
uncertain whether the onboard controllers are fully functional, but
both appear complete and physically undamaged.
My question is this - can a contemporary (i.e., a 3-1/2" 1.4MB floppy
drive) be adapted for use in either of these units? The 9122C uses a
single (0.05" pitch) ribbon cable between the drives and the
controller board; the 9122D has a somewhat narrower (0.05" pitch)
ribbon cable and a 4-pin power connector. None of the connectors are
identical to those used in contemporary floppy drives. I haven't
looked for/at service documentation (yet). My last exposure to floppy
drive equipment (at engineering, hardware and firmware level) was in
the mid-late 1970s (!), so I'd not be adverse to a modest engineering
project if there's a sign that this sort of thing has been
successfully attempted in the past.
My other question - do you happen to have any drives (of either type)
you'd be willing to part with?
Thanks,
Dave
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
I use the Aqua Mail app. on my Android, and it too will resize for you and give you choices as to how much compression to use.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/5/2018 12:41 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Yes, and I find that L is a fraction of the size and good for all but the most exacting requirements where you don¡¯t want any degradation whatsoever and bandwidth doesn¡¯t matter. M is pretty darn good and looks like a sharp photo, and S is still good for most newsgroup and reflector usage and gets through when larger ones are blocked.
Peter
On Nov 4, 2018, at 9:36 PM, Kuba Ober <kuba@...> wrote:
At least on the default iOS mail application, it asks right before sending anything with image attachments, and gives 4 choices for total attachment size: S, M, L and original. S is usually < 1/50th of original. It¡¯d be weird if Android mail app or gmail app didn¡¯t do the same¡
Cheers, Kuba
4 nov. 2018 kl. 18:57 skrev Daun Yeagley <daun@...>:
People don't think these days. All the cellphones with cameras have multi megapixel cameras these days generate huge image files. Great if you really need the resolution, but a huge waste of resources (i.e. bandwidth). Folks just send them without thinking about the consequences. When I need to send pictures in these circumstances, I use a freeware program "Irfanview", which makes it easy to resample the images to a much more manageable size (pretty much to your choosing). I recommend it!
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/4/2018 6:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
12.9 MB of crap? Can't you reduce the photo sizes and crop the unneeded areas into something reasonable?My Email inbox is only 300 MB. 23 messages this size would fill it.
-----Original Message-----
From: wilson2115@...
Sent: Nov 4, 2018 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
I performed some additional tests with a spectrum analyzer. The generator is 100mhz -30dB Mod out 1.00VL to FM mod in AC coupled mode
From the images shown below from top to bottom with 400 kHz total FM deviation the top image starts with a 20 kHz sine 10khz 5khz 2khz 1khz 500 hz 100 hz 60 hz, each horizontal division is 100 khz
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
Each and every subscriber to the email version of any
groups.io group has the option of receiving unlimited
sized, medium sized, small sized, or no attachments.
With "no attachments" you simply get a link to the file.
You can make this election by going to your groups.io
account. Set it to "no attachments" and everything will
be surprisingly a lot like it was back on yahoo.
The owner and I went round and round about this before he
pulled rank, and summarily dismissed me as a kook. He has
the option of setting the standard for the group as well.
He chose to allow unlimited sized attachments, figuring that
groups.io must want it that way since they made that the
default, and that we were all big boys and girls, and could
make the election individually ourselves.
So, it is up to you to be a big boy/girl, and set your own
policy for attachments... back at your groups.io account.
And it is up to we the group to suffer the learning period
for every new member as he/she sends out his learning burst
of mega sized attachments.
-Chuck Harris
Kuba Ober wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
At least on the default iOS mail application, it asks right before sending anything with image attachments, and gives 4 choices for total attachment size: S, M, L and original. S is usually < 1/50th of original. It¡¯d be weird if Android mail app or gmail app didn¡¯t do the same¡
Cheers, Kuba
4 nov. 2018 kl. 18:57 skrev Daun Yeagley <daun@...>:
People don't think these days. All the cellphones with cameras have multi megapixel cameras these days generate huge image files. Great if you really need the resolution, but a huge waste of resources (i.e. bandwidth). Folks just send them without thinking about the consequences. When I need to send pictures in these circumstances, I use a freeware program "Irfanview", which makes it easy to resample the images to a much more manageable size (pretty much to your choosing). I recommend it!
|
Re: HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive?
Hi Paul,
Many thanks for that. Most useful.
The units are a mix of 85 and 85B (have four of them...)
Therefore I assume it is OK just to connect them to the 85B and it should work (if I add the GPIB interface).
However, I also have a box of ROMs and the ROM drawers with the plain one.. But they are all loose/mixed up.
Are you able to tell me which ROM would be required in a drawer for a plain 85 to work with these floppy/hard drive combo's?
Then I can sort through, populate the drawers (assuming I have the right ones!) and try it.
I really don't want to use the tape drive if I can avoid it.
Any help is most welcome - thanks again in anticipation.
Regards
Nigel
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Berger Sent: 01 November 2018 15:34 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive? Short answer yes it is possible.? There is however an issue if the 85 in question is an 85A.? The 9122 devices follow the SS/80 command standard which was never formally supported on the 85A, the mass storage ROM for 85A only supports Amigo devices like 9121 and 9895.? The 85B had an extended mass storage ROM that supports SS/80 devices, but it is dependent on a couple ROMs that are built into the 85B.? The solution that is available now is in the form of ROM cards that take EPROMs? so you can burn the images of the 85B Mass Storage, Electronic Disk and Extended Mass Storage into EPROMs and it will work just fine in an 85A. ? When I got a 85A one of the first things I did was build a ROM card primarily for this purpose, and there is at least one other design.? Information about my designs can be found at <> there are two similar designs the first was designed specifically for 85A, but when I got an 86B I found it was not as flexible as I had planned so I created a modified version. ? I have never got around to laying out a PCB for either of these.?? At you will find information about another design and the creator of this one does produce PCB as well as assembled units periodically. Paul. On 2018-11-01 11:06 AM, nigel adams wrote: Dear Friends of the supreme knowledge,
I have a couple of the single/double FDD/HDD variations of this style of unit.
My question is if anyone knows if they can be used with the HP85 computer...?
What do I need, is there any special s/w required and if so does anyone know where to source it.
Essentially I want to use these in place of the little tape drives internal to the HP85 which are past their best.
All help advice welcome..
Regards
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: 31 October 2018 01:09
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 9122C & 9122D floppy drive units - adapt to use a contemporary (3.5" 1.4MB) diskette drive?
Further to my previous comments the two drive I modified to work on a
9122C are a Panasonic JU-257A606P and a YE Data YD-702D-6037D.? One
thing you may encounter there are later versions of both of these drives
that have less configuration options and will not be suitable.? On the
YE Data drive I had to put a wire jumper on the board to get all the
signals out that are required, I believe I may have had to do that with
the Panasonic drive as well.? I happened to have several 1.44 diskette
drives handy to experiment with.? You will probably have better luck
with older drives, it seems a lot of the more recent ones are tailored
for PC and have little in the way on configuration options.? The HP
drives also have the power integrated into the signal cable so I made up
a little interposer to go between the cable and the drive to break out
the power and also to remap some of the pins.
The service guide for the 9122C can be found at
and it contains a pinout of the drive cable connector which can help
guide you to adapting a drive.
While I know nothing about the instrument you are trying to connect to,
it may be that it is trying to format the diskettes at 256 bytes /
sector and if the diskettes have been formatted differently before it
may take a few tries before it is successful, bulk erasing the diskette
first can be helpful for this.
Paul.
On 2018-10-30 7:52 PM, Paul Berger wrote:
With a little work certain 1.44 drives can be made to work in a 9122C
the usual stumbling block is the controller in the 9122 wants to see
the ready signal, but I did manage to make a couple drives work, but
don't have the models handy.
The 9122D is a different story, it uses 720K drives that turn at 600
RPM and unlike most other 3.5 diskette drives.? There where two
versions of drives used. The earlier models used a full high drive
with a square eject button on the bottom right of the drive, about the
only place you can get replacements for this drive is from other
9122S/D units or there where also a couple disk/ diskette combo units
that used these drives.? The newer version is a half high drive with a
rectangular eject button at the bottom right, this drive was used in a
lot of HP equipment so replacements are easier to find.? One of the
prevalent problems with these drives and especially the full high
versions is lubricants used on the load/eject mechanism dry and
becomes gummy and the diskettes do not load or eject properly and it
is dangerous because the upper head may not retract properly and if
you pull out the diskette when it is like this the upper head will
come out with it.? I would strongly recommend you open the units and
do a general inspect, clean and lube.
Paul.
On 2018-10-30 7:39 PM, David Feldman via Groups.Io wrote:
I ended up with both HP 9122C and 9122D (dual floppy drive) units.
Both are recognized by my 8753 network analyzer (up to the point that
setting incorrect GPIB address and setting incorrect disc/volume
number has the expected error message results), all four drives make
familiar sounds during power-up and normal operation, however, only
one of the drives (in the 9122C) can read a diskette (list files on
the media), and none can write or initialize diskettes. I am
uncertain whether the onboard controllers are fully functional, but
both appear complete and physically undamaged.
My question is this - can a contemporary (i.e., a 3-1/2" 1.4MB floppy
drive) be adapted for use in either of these units? The 9122C uses a
single (0.05" pitch) ribbon cable between the drives and the
controller board; the 9122D has a somewhat narrower (0.05" pitch)
ribbon cable and a 4-pin power connector. None of the connectors are
identical to those used in contemporary floppy drives. I haven't
looked for/at service documentation (yet). My last exposure to floppy
drive equipment (at engineering, hardware and firmware level) was in
the mid-late 1970s (!), so I'd not be adverse to a modest engineering
project if there's a sign that this sort of thing has been
successfully attempted in the past.
My other question - do you happen to have any drives (of either type)
you'd be willing to part with?
Thanks,
Dave
|
Re: 3325B fail 026 - any advice?
Hi,
Thanks for all the tips.
Yeah, I usually don't go adjusting willy-nilly stuff, but since I got
the fail message and basic stuff, like cleaning the connectors did not
help, I looked at the adjustment section in the SM as if something is
way off, that could help pinpoint the place of the failure.
the CMOS switch chip which is a Maxim DG301 under HP part number seems
to be ok. This is one part, where the schematics diverge from the
instrument, the pinout is different , I would suspect that the A14
board is about he same as in the 3325A and the schematics has not been
updated (still hand drawn).
Next, I'll be checking the multiplier, once I got all the transistors
checked out in the amplitude circuit first. Anyway, I have now at
least something to play for the coming days :-)
Regards,
Szabolcs
tmillermdems <tmiller11147@...> ezt ¨ªrta (id?pont: 2018. nov.
4., V, 23:49):
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hope it is not U11, the multiplier chip. That adjustment feeds the - input
to the X differential input. A very brief search for the 1825-0437 part
number was unsuccessful. The part is made by Motorola so might be a generic
part.
There is a cmos switch that might be a suspect. You will need to make some
measurements around that circuit to narrow it down.
Regards
----- Original Message -----
From: "Szabolcs Szigeti" <szigiszabolcs@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2018 3:11 PM
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 3325B fail 026 - any advice?
Hi,
I'm still working on my 3325b to fix the fail 026 error. Unfortunately
it is not as simple as a bad connection. I'm going through the
adjustment/troubleshooting guide, I purchased the Artek manual, so I
have fairly good schematics (although I have already spotted
differences from real life, but nothing major)
There is output and the amplitude of the sine wave seems to be about
right, but i get the fail 026 and I also fail to be able to perform
the section 5-14 Sine Wave Gain Offset adjustment. The left side
number never gets to between -10 and 10 it is way off (~900).
All other waveforms are good and calibrate ok.
I'm now going through the amplitude control circuit, but I'm asking if
there are any known common issues with it, or any leads I should start
investigating first.
Thanks.
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
Yes, and I find that L is a fraction of the size and good for all but the most exacting requirements where you don¡¯t want any degradation whatsoever and bandwidth doesn¡¯t matter. M is pretty darn good and looks like a sharp photo, and S is still good for most newsgroup and reflector usage and gets through when larger ones are blocked.
Peter
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 4, 2018, at 9:36 PM, Kuba Ober <kuba@...> wrote:
At least on the default iOS mail application, it asks right before sending anything with image attachments, and gives 4 choices for total attachment size: S, M, L and original. S is usually < 1/50th of original. It¡¯d be weird if Android mail app or gmail app didn¡¯t do the same¡
Cheers, Kuba
4 nov. 2018 kl. 18:57 skrev Daun Yeagley <daun@...>:
People don't think these days. All the cellphones with cameras have multi megapixel cameras these days generate huge image files. Great if you really need the resolution, but a huge waste of resources (i.e. bandwidth). Folks just send them without thinking about the consequences. When I need to send pictures in these circumstances, I use a freeware program "Irfanview", which makes it easy to resample the images to a much more manageable size (pretty much to your choosing). I recommend it!
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/4/2018 6:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
12.9 MB of crap? Can't you reduce the photo sizes and crop the unneeded areas into something reasonable?My Email inbox is only 300 MB. 23 messages this size would fill it.
-----Original Message-----
From: wilson2115@...
Sent: Nov 4, 2018 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
I performed some additional tests with a spectrum analyzer. The generator is 100mhz -30dB Mod out 1.00VL to FM mod in AC coupled mode
From the images shown below from top to bottom with 400 kHz total FM deviation the top image starts with a 20 kHz sine 10khz 5khz 2khz 1khz 500 hz 100 hz 60 hz, each horizontal division is 100 khz
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
At least on the default iOS mail application, it asks right before sending anything with image attachments, and gives 4 choices for total attachment size: S, M, L and original. S is usually < 1/50th of original. It¡¯d be weird if Android mail app or gmail app didn¡¯t do the same¡
Cheers, Kuba
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
4 nov. 2018 kl. 18:57 skrev Daun Yeagley <daun@...>:
People don't think these days. All the cellphones with cameras have multi megapixel cameras these days generate huge image files. Great if you really need the resolution, but a huge waste of resources (i.e. bandwidth). Folks just send them without thinking about the consequences. When I need to send pictures in these circumstances, I use a freeware program "Irfanview", which makes it easy to resample the images to a much more manageable size (pretty much to your choosing). I recommend it!
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/4/2018 6:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
12.9 MB of crap? Can't you reduce the photo sizes and crop the unneeded areas into something reasonable?My Email inbox is only 300 MB. 23 messages this size would fill it.
-----Original Message-----
From: wilson2115@...
Sent: Nov 4, 2018 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
I performed some additional tests with a spectrum analyzer. The generator is 100mhz -30dB Mod out 1.00VL to FM mod in AC coupled mode
From the images shown below from top to bottom with 400 kHz total FM deviation the top image starts with a 20 kHz sine 10khz 5khz 2khz 1khz 500 hz 100 hz 60 hz, each horizontal division is 100 khz
|
Re: It's capacitors, stupid! :)
I suffered from
the same problem with Aeroflex IFR120 units that I recovered by
replacing several electrolytic capacitors, unfortunately it is a case
that is repeated in many instruments
Em segunda-feira, 5 de novembro de 2018 02:30:48 BRST, Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@...> escreveu:
Electrolytics strike again...
Got 8751A VNA failing power-on test some time ago and finally got some time
to fix it.
It had ALL THREE receivers failing self-test. Shuffling them didn't change
anything (it is three IDENTICAL boards). Pulled them from the unit, removed
covers and visually inspected them. On the first glance everything looked
perfectly neat -- no obvious signs of something blown, very good assembly
job, high quality components -- so I prepared for a difficult fight getting
in the very guts.
However, on the second, more thorough visual inspection something caught my
eye. There was a barely visible kinda like oily film and tiny droplets on
part of the board around those AK9201A-VP Digital Filter chips. Barely
visible, very easy to miss, as if boards were not washed thorougly enough.
Closer look revealed some slight solder joints corrosion in that area.
Nothing major, almost natural but anyway...
All alarms went off immediately, reached for my desoldering station gun and
pulled all electrolytics from one board (there are 9 x 10uF50V, 2 x 47uf35V,
7 x 100uF35V, and one 470uF16V, all genuine KME type, looked perfectly OK)
and found that all those 10uF50V around DF chip failed miserable with 100+
Ohm ESR and their internal liquid totally gone. That was that oily film
around then covering quite a big area. All others also leaked some but not
that bad so they were still within specs (on the margin of failure) and they
also produced that stinky odor when desoldered and removed.
Luckily enough those boards were of way better quality than infamous
Tektronix 2465B A5 board. Also the genuine through-hole Japanese Nichicon
KME seem to be filled with less aggressive blood than those SMD caps on
2465B's A5 so after thorough washing with all electrolytics removed boards
looked pretty fine, no need for restoration job.
New Panasonic FR capacitors were installed then, boards assembled, put back
in the 8751A and bingo! -- No Errors Found, works like a charm...
Will probably replace all remaining electrolytics before calibrating and
putting it for sale, then repeat for my primary one sitting on the workbench
and used from time to time...
Resume: one should _ALWAYS_ replace _ALL_ aluminum electrolytics in _ALL_
instruments that mature before calling it refurbished and taking on
calibration. No matter how nice those electrolytics look, where they were
made, where the entire instrument was assembled (8751A are fully Japanese so
one would expect high quality parts and assembly) -- _REPLACE THEM ALL_ It
is not worth a bother checking them one-by-one and only replace ones that
already failed -- they will _ALL_ fail soon. And it is actually worse with
high end instruments -- those failures are _GRADUAL_ so it is not like
something goes BOOM! and instrument goes dead. They start drifting out of
specs instead, becoming flakey and unreliable way before they finally fail.
In my early years, 40+ years ago, we were taught that electronics is all
about contacts -- if it didn't work some contact was missing where it's
needed or present where it is NOT needed.
These days that sacral knowledge should be probably replaced by new one,
about aluminum electrolytics. 99.99% failures I see for last 10 years or so
were caused by bad capacitors...
---
*
*? KSI@home? ? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? * *? Las Vegas? NV, USA? < >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.? *
*
|
It's capacitors, stupid! :)
Electrolytics strike again...
Got 8751A VNA failing power-on test some time ago and finally got some time
to fix it.
It had ALL THREE receivers failing self-test. Shuffling them didn't change
anything (it is three IDENTICAL boards). Pulled them from the unit, removed
covers and visually inspected them. On the first glance everything looked
perfectly neat -- no obvious signs of something blown, very good assembly
job, high quality components -- so I prepared for a difficult fight getting
in the very guts.
However, on the second, more thorough visual inspection something caught my
eye. There was a barely visible kinda like oily film and tiny droplets on
part of the board around those AK9201A-VP Digital Filter chips. Barely
visible, very easy to miss, as if boards were not washed thorougly enough.
Closer look revealed some slight solder joints corrosion in that area.
Nothing major, almost natural but anyway...
All alarms went off immediately, reached for my desoldering station gun and
pulled all electrolytics from one board (there are 9 x 10uF50V, 2 x 47uf35V,
7 x 100uF35V, and one 470uF16V, all genuine KME type, looked perfectly OK)
and found that all those 10uF50V around DF chip failed miserable with 100+
Ohm ESR and their internal liquid totally gone. That was that oily film
around then covering quite a big area. All others also leaked some but not
that bad so they were still within specs (on the margin of failure) and they
also produced that stinky odor when desoldered and removed.
Luckily enough those boards were of way better quality than infamous
Tektronix 2465B A5 board. Also the genuine through-hole Japanese Nichicon
KME seem to be filled with less aggressive blood than those SMD caps on
2465B's A5 so after thorough washing with all electrolytics removed boards
looked pretty fine, no need for restoration job.
New Panasonic FR capacitors were installed then, boards assembled, put back
in the 8751A and bingo! -- No Errors Found, works like a charm...
Will probably replace all remaining electrolytics before calibrating and
putting it for sale, then repeat for my primary one sitting on the workbench
and used from time to time...
Resume: one should _ALWAYS_ replace _ALL_ aluminum electrolytics in _ALL_
instruments that mature before calling it refurbished and taking on
calibration. No matter how nice those electrolytics look, where they were
made, where the entire instrument was assembled (8751A are fully Japanese so
one would expect high quality parts and assembly) -- _REPLACE THEM ALL_ It
is not worth a bother checking them one-by-one and only replace ones that
already failed -- they will _ALL_ fail soon. And it is actually worse with
high end instruments -- those failures are _GRADUAL_ so it is not like
something goes BOOM! and instrument goes dead. They start drifting out of
specs instead, becoming flakey and unreliable way before they finally fail.
In my early years, 40+ years ago, we were taught that electronics is all
about contacts -- if it didn't work some contact was missing where it's
needed or present where it is NOT needed.
These days that sacral knowledge should be probably replaced by new one,
about aluminum electrolytics. 99.99% failures I see for last 10 years or so
were caused by bad capacitors...
---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
There's a plugin for Thunderbird called "Auto Resize Image", which
does, very configurably, exactly what its name suggests. When you hit
"send" on an outbound email with image attachments, it can bring up a
dialog box with a preview of each image, information about its size
(both byte count and image dimensions), and ask you whether to resize it
to a preconfigured (by you) size, some other size, or leave it as-is.
I like it a lot.
Of course you're pretty much screwed if you're using a web browser for
email, but then that was already the case at the beginning, so.. ;)
-Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/4/18 6:57 PM, Daun Yeagley wrote: People don't think these days.? All the cellphones with cameras have
multi megapixel cameras these days generate huge image files.? Great if
you really need the resolution, but a huge waste of resources (i.e.
bandwidth).? Folks just send them without thinking about the
consequences.? When I need to send pictures in these circumstances, I
use a freeware program "Irfanview", which makes it easy to resample the
images to a much more manageable size (pretty much to your choosing).? I
recommend it!
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley II, N8ASB
On 11/4/2018 6:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
12.9 MB of crap? Can't you reduce the photo sizes and crop the
unneeded areas into something reasonable?My Email inbox is only 300
MB. 23 messages this size would fill it.
-----Original Message-----
From: wilson2115@...
Sent: Nov 4, 2018 4:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8642B displays A6A1
transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
I performed some additional tests with a spectrum analyzer. The
generator is 100mhz -30dB Mod out 1.00VL to FM mod in AC coupled mode
?From the images shown below from top to bottom with 400 kHz total FM
deviation the top image starts with a 20 kHz sine 10khz 5khz 2khz 1khz
500 hz 100 hz 60 hz, each horizontal division is 100 khz
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
|
Re: 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input
OK. Some programs won't even open files that large.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: wilson2115@... Sent: Nov 4, 2018 7:04 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8642B displays A6A1 transient failure F3 when audio peaks at FM mod input I admit I have messed up on my part, I will try not to let this happen again and apologize for the inconveniences I have caused, take care.
|
Dave McGuire
Sergey Kubushyn
Michael A. Terrell