I just received an 83631B sweeper to complete my 8510C. In reading the service quick reference guide, 08510-90317, I see there are lots of gotchas and a bunch of cables I need, not all of which have HP part numbers listed clearly. It's also not clear which ones are needed when. In addition there are numerous notes about not making certain connections, but it's not clear which cable the reference is to.

So here is what I have so far:

85101C / 3031A opt 010, 011

85102A / 2546A opt H0 w/ 85103A sticker dated 10/13/1987 and 8530A front panel label

83631B / 3844A w/ Agilent refurbished Jun 2000 sticker

8515A / 3602A

8512A / 2345A

Neither the 8512A nor 8515A have the source interface port shown on p 1-3 of the service quick reference. Does that present a problem?

The only cable I have at present is the 85101C to 85102A connection. I also have an HP floppy with the 8530A FW. The 8510C is what is currently loaded. I've not tried to read the 8530A disk yet.

So now to questions:

What other cables do I need?

What do I need to use it in 8530A mode?

Can the 8512A and 8515A be connected at the same time?

Are any of the units incompatible?

What do I need to do to bring this up?

I've seen the 83631B listed as 10 MHz to 26.6 GHz and 45 MHz to 26.6 GHz. How does one tell which is the case? Is it test set dependent at the low frequency?

I'm a hardcore Unix guy. Is it worth hunting down an HP 9000 series to use with it or can I use more recent computers e.g. HP Z400?

HP-UX would have me trying to admin 5 distinct operating systems. Working entirely alone, I've discovered that it really taxes my memory switching between the 4 I'm already running.

I've read a good bit of 8510 documentation, but the system is so complex that I'm not sure I've even found all of it, much less read everything I need to read.

Thanks,
Reg

Unfortunately, the Artek scan isn't free, so I will have to pass on that.

Back to the hardware, the readout shows OL on the high ranges and zeros
on the low ranges.? I don't understand the relationships with the range
settings, autocal, and autozero.? Sometimes TP4 shows -14V and sometimes
-13V.? TP3 shows the input from the panel but not always.? This unit is
way over my head.

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 12:49:21 PM PDT, Orin Eman
<orin.eman@...> wrote:


I took a look at that one.

The text looks OK, but the diagrams and schematics aren't really readable.

I'd get the Artek scan.


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:40 PM Bob Albert via groups.io
<> <bob91343@...
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

My manual is one I downloaded from the Keysight site.

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 11:20:40 AM PDT, Bob Albert via
groups.io <> <bob91343@...
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


Orin, TP4 is at about -13 Volts, no relation to the input signal.

Bob

On Thursday, April 2, 2020, 10:31:01 AM PDT, Orin Eman
<orin.eman@... <mailto:orin.eman@...>> wrote:



On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:44 AM Bob Albert via groups.io
<> <bob91343@...
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

It's complicated by the fact that I don't know where the parts
are for different parts of the diagrams. ?


Which manual do you have?

The Artek scan that I have has a diagram of the A10 board on page
222 of the pdf (or at "A10 & A12 Board" under Diagrams in the
bookmarks in Artek's scan).

Orin.?

On Apr 2, 2020, at 07:21, Don Bitters via groups.io <donbitters@...> wrote:

?When you power the DMM on it goes through a POP (Power On Preset routine). ?The display does several things including showing all 8’s. ?Are you getting this? ?This is also the ideal time to check for activity on the suspect IC’s. ?Check the manual for what is displayed during the POP. ?If the DMM does not complete POP it should show an error code, see manual for codes and meaning.
If the manual is suggesting one of 2 IC’s then you could check for activity on the address and data lines on the 2 IC’s with an o-scope during POP. ?Look for proper levels, TTL or CMOS if a digital IC and good wave shape - data should be square or rectangular shapes with little or no rounding of leading edges, ramps should be straight lines, check for any overly warm IC’s. ?Again check the cabling connections for oxidation and good contact, DeOxit is your friend if used sparingly. ?The display brd has to have a clock signal to operate - check the clock, if I recall correctly it should be 1 MHz.
If POP is good and no errors then, try putting a 1VDC into the DMM and then chase the signal through the signal path until it is digitized to be sent to the display (see manual). Don’t be afraid to gently wiggle cables and gently press on brds and components, looking for any changes on your display.
A dumb question, where is the front/rear connector switch set to, and if you select ohms mode does your display still show all 0’s (with nothing connected to the inputs)?
Don Bitters

On Apr 2, 2020, at 07:21, Don Bitters via groups.io <donbitters@...> wrote:

?When you power the DMM on it goes through a POP (Power On Preset routine). ?The display does several things including showing all 8’s. ?Are you getting this? ?This is also the ideal time to check for activity on the suspect IC’s. ?Check the manual for what is displayed during the POP. ?If the DMM does not complete POP it should show an error code, see manual for codes and meaning.
If the manual is suggesting one of 2 IC’s then you could check for activity on the address and data lines on the 2 IC’s with an o-scope during POP. ?Look for proper levels, TTL or CMOS if a digital IC and good wave shape - data should be square or rectangular shapes with little or no rounding of leading edges, ramps should be straight lines, check for any overly warm IC’s. ?Again check the cabling connections for oxidation and good contact, DeOxit is your friend if used sparingly. ?The display brd has to have a clock signal to operate - check the clock, if I recall correctly it should be 1 MHz.
If POP is good and no errors then, try putting a 1VDC into the DMM and then chase the signal through the signal path until it is digitized to be sent to the display (see manual). Don’t be afraid to gently wiggle cables and gently press on brds and components, looking for any changes on your display.
A dumb question, where is the front/rear connector switch set to, and if you select ohms mode does your display still show all 0’s (with nothing connected to the inputs)?
Don Bitters

From: "Harvey White" <madyn@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 9:54:54 AM
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 3455a DVM repair

I'd be glad to help if I could, but I don't have one.? What I've said is
based on the 3456As that I have.? Take a low frequency square wave, say
1 second on one second off.? Put that to the input of the meter.? The
manual should show you the A/D converter and the inguard processor (IIRC
it's inguard), You should be able to see that signal at the a/d inputs.
You should be able to identify the outputs of the inguard processor,
look to see if anything is changing there.? Then try the outguard
processor, that's the one that drives the display.? Again, you're
looking at board signals, not signals going so much between chips.

What I suspect, as do others, is that the inguard processor may not be
talking to the outguard processor.? The inguard processor may be
"broken" as a guess.? That the display changes with range is good.? That
it's all zeros may be that it's simply getting all zeros.

Look at the actual boards and check the signals there.? You don't need
to start looking at chips until you figure out what's going on.

Typically, the inguard processor is run from an isolated supply (and ALL
the voltages must be exact, had that problem with a -30 volt supply in a
3456), the input attenuators, AC converter, ohms current supply, A/D and
that processor are all run from that supply.? Then the output of that
processor goes through some sort of isolation network rated for many KV
to the main processor.? HP used a pair of highly insulated transformers,
just a few loops of wire and a core, to get a clock and data signal over
in the 3456A.? Likely they're doing the same thing here.

I had a bad inguard processor in one of mine.

Harvey


On 4/1/2020 8:19 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:

Harvey, my main problem is identifying the various parts.? The manual
isn't the easiest for me.? Perhaps you can walk me around to the
various places where I can make measurements.? I certainly have no
shortage of sources of dc or ac of any reasonable frequency and amplitude.

I did measure the 10V reference with my 3456A at 10.00007 I think.
(not sure how many zeros)? So what we have here are all the pieces of
a good meter if I can make it play.

Bob

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 05:09:17 PM PDT, Harvey White
<madyn@...> wrote:


If I might:

generally, a signal goes through attenuators, then is converted to
digital.? This is done in a floating processing environment called (by
HP) the inguard processor.? That is optically coupled to an "outguard"
processor, which is the main processor driving the display.? Any break
in the chain can result in zeros.

Firstly, I'd take the signal from the inputs, then see how far it
gets.? If you can see anything changing in the digitally coupled
outputs (optically isolated), might be working.? You'll need to check
on both ends of the optical isolators.? That's assuming they have
them.? The 3456 has two very isolated transformers that need to be
checked.? What I found is that one of the processors itself was dead
when I was trying to resurrect some of them.

So the bottom line is to try to follow the signal. An AC signal would
be easiest but you'd have to tell it that it's really DC, otherwise
you to the AC converter.? If you should try to do an AC signal into
the DC input, what you're looking for is the presence or absence of a
signal (to a point where the circuitry gets confused and/or ignores
it) and after that, the signal isn't there.? At that point, you need
to match the AC signal to an AC input, or DC to DC.

This is based on my experiences with a 3456, so YMMV

Harvey


On 4/1/2020 1:36 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:
Well Chuck, I don't know what to do next with this beast.? It acts as
though it works but the display gives nothing useful.? Yet the display
electronics seem to be working okay.

If I put a signal in, it ignores it. Open or short on Ohms, voltage or
no on volts, gives zeros and no autorange activity.? So perhaps it's
an input circuit issue.? In Test I get error 11.? I press test
repeatedly and it gives error numbers 10, 9, etc down to 0.

The manual sucks.? It tells me to look on module such and such but
nowhere does it seem to show me which module is where.

Bob

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 10:22:56 AM PDT, Chuck Harris
<cfharris@...> <mailto:cfharris@...> wrote:


Hi Bob,

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

The 3455A is highly reparable, and should be well
within your abilities.? Lots of people have fixed
their own successfully.

What you won't be able to do is send its calibration
module out for calibration.? You will have to do that
yourself.? But, it is not any more difficult to
calibrate than the 3456A.

It is not my meter of choice, as I greatly prefer
the 3456A, but for many, it is a useful addition to
their labs.

-Chuck Harris

Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:

? I don't see a whole lot of encouragement here regarding the

possibility of getting my 3455A working.? Maybe I will just put it
aside and wait for a scrap unit to swap out boards or parts.? My 3456A
still works so I am grateful for that.

Bob
? ? On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 06:40:17 AM PDT, Chuck Harris

<cfharris@... <mailto:cfharris@...>> wrote:

? The 3455A was a dinosaur when it was first released.

The 3455A and 3456A were sold side by side, with the
3455A being about twice as expensive as the much more
capable 3456A.? The 3455A's interesting feature was
it was supposed to be cheap to calibrate. All you
had to do to do a complete calibration was to unplug
the module in the back panel, and replace it with a
recently calibrated module.? The idea was you could
order up a calibration by mail, and return your old
calibration module as a core... never having to send
the full meter in for calibration.

Interesting idea, but surely not worth twice the price
of a 3456A.

I say it was a dinosaur, because it used all small
scale logic rather than large highly capable hybrid
circuitry, like the 3456A.? It should be much easier
to repair, but it should also be much less reliable.

And, that is my experience with the two units.

-Chuck Harris

paul swedberg wrote:

With respect to the 3455 and 3456 the difference is night and day.

I have

numbers of 3456s and was given a seriously troubled 3455. Quite a
interesting meter.
Replaced at least 11 actually malfunctioning chips on the logic

board. The

logics simple so easy to verify the chips were bad. No shot gunning
involved. Never really did get it working but ended up with a different
3455 that needed help and the AC board and it is in fine shape. With
respect to the old 3455 it has both a logic and voltmeter issue.

The 3455

uses an unusual processor and teh DVM uses the same proc and a

masked eprom

that is known to go bad. It acts as a state machine.
The 3456s are losing there eproms and copies can be found on the

net. Thank

heavens.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

Harvey, my main problem is identifying the various parts.? The manual isn't the easiest for me.? Perhaps you can walk me around to the various places where I can make measurements.? I certainly have no shortage of sources of dc or ac of any reasonable frequency and amplitude.

I did measure the 10V reference with my 3456A at 10.00007 I think.? (not sure how many zeros)? So what we have here are all the pieces of a good meter if I can make it play.

Bob

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 05:09:17 PM PDT, Harvey White <madyn@...> wrote:

If I might:

generally, a signal goes through attenuators, then? is converted to digital.? This is done in a floating processing environment called (by HP) the inguard processor.? That is optically coupled to an "outguard" processor, which is the main processor driving the display.? Any break in the chain can result in zeros.?

Firstly, I'd take the signal from the inputs, then see how far it gets.? If you can see anything changing in the digitally coupled outputs (optically isolated), might be working.? You'll need to check on both ends of the optical isolators.? That's assuming they have them.? The 3456 has two very isolated transformers that need to be checked.? What I found is that one of the processors itself was dead when I was trying to resurrect some of them.

So the bottom line is to try to follow the signal.? An AC signal would be easiest but you'd have to tell it that it's really DC, otherwise you to the AC converter.? If you should try to do an AC signal into the DC input, what you're looking for is the presence or absence of a signal (to a point where the circuitry gets confused and/or ignores it) and after that, the signal isn't there.? At that point, you need to match the AC signal to an AC input, or DC to DC.

This is based on my experiences with a 3456, so YMMV

Harvey

On 4/1/2020 1:36 PM, Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:

Well Chuck, I don't know what to do next with this beast.? It acts as though it works but the display gives nothing useful.? Yet the display electronics seem to be working okay.

If I put a signal in, it ignores it.? Open or short on Ohms, voltage or no on volts, gives zeros and no autorange activity.? So perhaps it's an input circuit issue.? In Test I get error 11.? I press test repeatedly and it gives error numbers 10, 9, etc down to 0.

The manual sucks.? It tells me to look on module such and such but nowhere does it seem to show me which module is where.

Bob

On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 10:22:56 AM PDT, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:

Hi Bob,

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

The 3455A is highly reparable, and should be well
within your abilities.? Lots of people have fixed
their own successfully.

What you won't be able to do is send its calibration
module out for calibration.? You will have to do that
yourself.? But, it is not any more difficult to
calibrate than the 3456A.

It is not my meter of choice, as I greatly prefer
the 3456A, but for many, it is a useful addition to
their labs.

-Chuck Harris

Bob Albert via groups.io wrote:
>? I don't see a whole lot of encouragement here regarding the possibility of getting my 3455A working.? Maybe I will just put it aside and wait for a scrap unit to swap out boards or parts.? My 3456A still works so I am grateful for that.
> Bob
>? ? On Wednesday, April 1, 2020, 06:40:17 AM PDT, Chuck Harris <cfharris@...> wrote:
>
>? The 3455A was a dinosaur when it was first released.
>
> The 3455A and 3456A were sold side by side, with the
> 3455A being about twice as expensive as the much more
> capable 3456A.? The 3455A's interesting feature was
> it was supposed to be cheap to calibrate.? All you
> had to do to do a complete calibration was to unplug
> the module in the back panel, and replace it with a
> recently calibrated module.? The idea was you could
> order up a calibration by mail, and return your old
> calibration module as a core... never having to send
> the full meter in for calibration.
>
> Interesting idea, but surely not worth twice the price
> of a 3456A.
>
> I say it was a dinosaur, because it used all small
> scale logic rather than large highly capable hybrid
> circuitry, like the 3456A.? It should be much easier
> to repair, but it should also be much less reliable.
>
> And, that is my experience with the two units.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
> paul swedberg wrote:
>> With respect to the 3455 and 3456 the difference is night and day. I have
>> numbers of 3456s and was given a seriously troubled 3455. Quite a
>> interesting meter.
>> Replaced at least 11 actually malfunctioning chips on the logic board. The
>> logics simple so easy to verify the chips were bad. No shot gunning
>> involved. Never really did get it working but ended up with a different
>> 3455 that needed help and the AC board and it is in fine shape. With
>> respect to the old 3455 it has both a logic and voltmeter issue. The 3455
>> uses an unusual processor and teh DVM uses the same proc and a masked eprom
>> that is known to go bad. It acts as a state machine.
>> The 3456s are losing there eproms and copies can be found on the net. Thank
>> heavens.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You guys already know this, but just in case: an important consideration in rack mounting your gear is the weight that the floor can support.? With some of the taller racks filled with equipment, you will have hundreds of kgs. of weight.? As an extreme (and fabricated) example, a common 7 foot (44U) rack could physically accommodate eleven HP8664A signal generators.? At 35kg each, these generators would weigh a total of 385 kg. (850 lbs.) -- and this doesn't including the weight of the rack itself, and any mounting accessories.? Be safe, everyone!