Re: HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
Hi Matt,
I don't know the 8970B, so this is just my general thoughts. Just to verify that I fully understand. When you measured the lover voltage of the replaced battery, this was measured at the battery terminals, with the instrument off, and not after the CR4 diode right? And when you measured 4nA you added an external power supply (or battery) with current measure inline, connected to the battery terminals, and the instrument was off?
If I'm correct in my assumptions, you might look more at what you did between these measurements.
Did you remove a card to replace battery and put it back? Did you remove any cover?
You could also do a current measurement over a longer time, maybe for some reason the current consumption go up after the instrument has been off for a while. Could it be related to the content of the memory? Some bits set make current consumption go up, but now I'm just guessing wild.
Let us know if you find out any more
Regards, Askild
I received a faulty HP 8970B displaying errors (E80 and E26) related to
backup battery / attenuator calibration data troubles. I measured the
voltage across the 3V coin cell in-circuit to be about 2.93 V. However,
the replacement, which showed 3.4V out of circuit, quickly dropped to
about 2.5V in circuit. Sure enough, when I checked the next morning E80
had reappeared (indicating the NVRAM lost data) and the battery voltage
was now only a few tens of mV. Now, when I use a fresh battery the
voltage drops quickly to basically 0.
This obviously sounds like something's shorting the output but when I
power it externally and place an inline meter in current mode, the
current only reads about 4nA. The power draw of the NVRAM in standby is
spec'd at 10nA typical, so this seems reasonable. Also, the NVRAM seems
to work fine when the unit is powered on (I can program new attenuator
calibration data). But if there's no short at the output, why are my
batteries dying? I've attached the battery portion of the schematic. VB
is attached to the TC5564APL-15 NVRAM supply.
FYI, I've run the 8970B through a bunch of the operator's checks and
it's passed everything, so there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.
It's also worth mentioning that I think I saw a pretty significant
dielectric absorption effect from the tantalum across the battery. I
noticed after the first time I powered the circuit externally that when
I measured the voltage across the battery supply terminals with no
battery (or supply) in place, the voltage read >7V (into a >10GOhm
meter). This persisted after I shorted and released the supply
terminals. When I removed the tantalum this voltage went away so I think
it's a dielectric absorption or memory effect. This is doubly strange to
me, because if this can supply the voltage on its own, why can't the
battery + cap do it?
Matt
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Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
Files uploaded
"Tantalum, film" should be "tantalum, foil" - typo and changed in file.
Hal
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
I¡¯d be happy to support that if it is possible to get it scanned.
Tony
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes:
> I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater.? ?For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage of the information for the later model 8662As.? Looking thru it, it does cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section.? It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other.? I 'think' that the manual pn is 08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume service manual set.? This manual was labeled Agilent, not HP.? I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals.
Hi Richard,
It's great news this manual still exists. I spent a while looking for
this, including asking Keysight and a couple second hand vendors and
couldn't track it down anywhere. As far as I can tell this is pretty
rare. Do you think you might be able to scan and share it so that this
can be preserved? Or, maybe a few of us could chip in to get it scanned
by someone such as Dave at Artek?
Matt
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
"Richard Parrish" <Richard@...> writes: I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater. For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage of the information for the later model 8662As. Looking thru it, it does cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section. It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other. I 'think' that the manual pn is 08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume service manual set. This manual was labeled Agilent, not HP. I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals. Hi Richard, It's great news this manual still exists. I spent a while looking for this, including asking Keysight and a couple second hand vendors and couldn't track it down anywhere. As far as I can tell this is pretty rare. Do you think you might be able to scan and share it so that this can be preserved? Or, maybe a few of us could chip in to get it scanned by someone such as Dave at Artek? Matt
|
HP 8970B battery backup troubleshooting
I received a faulty HP 8970B displaying errors (E80 and E26) related to
backup battery / attenuator calibration data troubles. I measured the
voltage across the 3V coin cell in-circuit to be about 2.93 V. However,
the replacement, which showed 3.4V out of circuit, quickly dropped to
about 2.5V in circuit. Sure enough, when I checked the next morning E80
had reappeared (indicating the NVRAM lost data) and the battery voltage
was now only a few tens of mV. Now, when I use a fresh battery the
voltage drops quickly to basically 0.
This obviously sounds like something's shorting the output but when I
power it externally and place an inline meter in current mode, the
current only reads about 4nA. The power draw of the NVRAM in standby is
spec'd at 10nA typical, so this seems reasonable. Also, the NVRAM seems
to work fine when the unit is powered on (I can program new attenuator
calibration data). But if there's no short at the output, why are my
batteries dying? I've attached the battery portion of the schematic. VB
is attached to the TC5564APL-15 NVRAM supply.
FYI, I've run the 8970B through a bunch of the operator's checks and
it's passed everything, so there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it.
It's also worth mentioning that I think I saw a pretty significant
dielectric absorption effect from the tantalum across the battery. I
noticed after the first time I powered the circuit externally that when
I measured the voltage across the battery supply terminals with no
battery (or supply) in place, the voltage read >7V (into a >10GOhm
meter). This persisted after I shorted and released the supply
terminals. When I removed the tantalum this voltage went away so I think
it's a dielectric absorption or memory effect. This is doubly strange to
me, because if this can supply the voltage on its own, why can't the
battery + cap do it?
Matt
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
I picked up the unit with total cost about $71.50 incl shipping. Hope it works?
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022, 21:38 Sergey Kubushyn < ksi@...> wrote: On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, Andrew Hakman wrote:
There is one for $55 BIN on ePay right now:
There is one more but that is in South Korea with asking price of $300 and
$90 shipping which is insane.
> I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one
> (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and
> not with the scope
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 2:15 PM Samudra <samudra.haque@...> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight
>> instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think
>> per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone
>> have a spare unit they would like to sell?
>>
>> Is it a plug and play module ?
>> Thanks, I am in the US.
---
*
*? KSI@home? ? KOI8 Net? < >? The impossible we do immediately.? *
*? Las Vegas? ?NV, USA? ?< >? Miracles require 24-hour notice.? ?*
*
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
Thanks Andrew. have you used any freely available Keysight software for automated measurement using these oscilloscopes qith non-GPIB interfaces ? I just invested into ethernet/GPIB for the other instruments in my rack, and thought to use GPIB but would not mind a USB-serial interface setup.?
I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and not with the scope
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, Andrew Hakman wrote: There is one for $55 BIN on ePay right now: There is one more but that is in South Korea with asking price of $300 and $90 shipping which is insane. I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one
(at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and
not with the scope
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 2:15 PM Samudra <samudra.haque@...> wrote:
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight
instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think
per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone
have a spare unit they would like to sell?
Is it a plug and play module ?
Thanks, I am in the US. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
|
Re: WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
I had a saved search set on ebay for at least 2 years before I found one (at a reasonable price). They seem pretty rare, especially on their own and not with the scope
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
Harold, what¡¯s a ¡°tantalum, film¡± capacitor?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Harold Foster via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2022 8:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
?
All-
Just uploaded a SS of Sprague capacitor series that I made as a quick reference for myself - feel free to add and modify as needed.? I also have scans (as found on the web) of old catalogs that I can upload if wanted but did not do so as they are approximately
100MB total and i don't want to use up storage space here for no reason.? I will gladly UL if requested.
Thanks,
Hal?
|
WTB (wish to buy) N2757A GPIB interface module for a 54622D MSO
Hello, I wanted to standardize on GPIB for my HP/Agilent/Keysight instrument collection and realize the MSO didn't come with GPIB. I think per the manual an old N2757A is probably useful to do that. Does anyone have a spare unit they would like to sell??
Is it a plug and play module ??
Thanks, I am in the US.?
|
Re: Setting up an Ubuntu + Prologix GPIB toolchain
Thanks, I bit the bullet and order a new ProLogix ethernet/gpib dongle. The manufacturer has raised prices,? and they recommended that I buy from vendors wirh existing stock, currently selling at the usual price.?
They provided me a writeup to use the product and application development guides.?
|
Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
Hi Hal ? Thank you for the upload as we presently appear to have enough storage space Could you please up lode your catalog¡¯s into the Files? /? Catalogs??? area? so that members can down load them They can be assessed later when file space becomes an issue Also can I please move the file just uploaded into ?Files? /? Catalogs??? ? Regards Paul ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Harold Foster
Sent: 03 June 2022 16:49
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] New file: Sprague capacitor types in files ? All-
Just uploaded a SS of Sprague capacitor series that I made as a quick reference for myself - feel free to add and modify as needed.? I also have scans (as found on the web) of old catalogs that I can upload if wanted but did not do so as they are approximately 100MB total and i don't want to use up storage space here for no reason.? I will gladly UL if requested.
Thanks,
Hal?
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
I just looked through my manuals and found the latest/last service manual for the 8663A which covers sn 3423 and greater. ? For the most part, this manual also covers a good percentage?of the information for the later model 8662As.? Looking thru it, it does
cover the later 2 attenuator units and the last version of the power supply section.? It is a BIG manual, measuring about 9" stacked one on top of the other.? I 'think' that the manual pn is
08663-90134 but I can't be sure because I'm missing V1 of the? 4-volume service manual set.? This
manual was labeled Agilent, not HP.? I know that 'some' of the information was in the yellow sheets in the later HP manuals.
Just an FYI,
Richard Parrish
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks Askild.
I have been doing some internet image research and also asked a couple of friends on the Twittersphere. I think you are right - the J9 motherboard connector is deprecated in newer models.?
The two attenuators each have a 2x5 IDC socket but only 7 contacts are used. The ribbon cables have 10 wires but the yellow, green and gray wires are not used (cut short) and plug in to the A2A8 card on two rows of header pins via flat 8-position
DuPont sockets.?
One wire (the brown 5V supply) is in a different position on each cable and the unused 8th position (either #1 or #2) is blanked off. This prevents plugging the attenuator cables into the wrong row of header pins.?
I pieced this together from various internet and eBay images. The available service manuals are for older models and while the 8663A manuals cover the two-attenuator versions, they still have them connecting to the motherboard rather than the
A2A8 PCB. I¡¯ve found no documentation that covers this later layout at all.
Regards
Tony
Hi Tony,
I'm fairly sure you should not have anything connected to that connector.
On my 8663A there are two attenuators, that each has a ribbon cable, and yes, all signals controlling the attenuators are on the ribbon cables.
I have not seen that single unit, maybe someone else has some info about it?
Unfortunately it seems as I have not taken a picture of the front open like this, so I cant say for sure how my 8663A looks like. And now it's difficult to open, as there is several instruments stacked on top of it.
Regards,
Askild
Hi,
While trying to fix my HP8662A I'm trying to work out if?it is missing an output attenuator relay drive cable - or not.
There appear to be at least two attenuator configurations in these instruments. My machine has two attenuator units, each with a ribbon cable attached - which I assume are the relay drive signals. I have seen pictures of other revs of the instrument with a
single larger attenuator with a drive cable that comes from the motherboard, but no ribbon cables. I attach a picture of both configs, as far as I can research them.
I can't find any HP update/change documentation on the internet about when the configuration of the attenuators for this instrument changed - or indeed, if it is an instrument option.
My question regards the attenuator drive cable. In my own instrument with 2 attenuators there is no drive cable plugged in to the motherboard (see circled area in pictures). In the single attenuator model this cable exists (again, see picture). So should my
instrument have that cable (i.e. it is missing), or do the ribbon cables carry those signals and therefore does not need one?
I hope that is clear!
Many thanks
Tony
--
|
Re: New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Harold Foster via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2022 8:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
?
All-
Just uploaded a SS of Sprague capacitor series that I made as a quick reference for myself - feel free to add and modify as needed.? I also have scans (as found on the web) of old catalogs that I can upload if wanted but did not do so as they are approximately
100MB total and i don't want to use up storage space here for no reason.? I will gladly UL if requested.
Thanks,
Hal?
|
New file: Sprague capacitor types in files
All-
Just uploaded a SS of Sprague capacitor series that I made as a quick reference for myself - feel free to add and modify as needed.? I also have scans (as found on the web) of old catalogs that I can upload if wanted but did not do so as they are approximately 100MB total and i don't want to use up storage space here for no reason.? I will gladly UL if requested.
Thanks,
Hal?
|
Re: HP 8662A - alternative attenuator configurations
Thanks Askild.
I have been doing some internet image research and also asked a couple of friends on the Twittersphere. I think you are right - the J9 motherboard connector is deprecated in newer models.?
The two attenuators each have a 2x5 IDC socket but only 7 contacts are used. The ribbon cables have 10 wires but the yellow, green and gray wires are not used (cut short) and plug in to the A2A8 card on two rows of header pins via flat 8-position DuPont sockets.?
One wire (the brown 5V supply) is in a different position on each cable and the unused 8th position (either #1 or #2) is blanked off. This prevents plugging the attenuator cables into the wrong row of header pins.?
I pieced this together from various internet and eBay images. The available service manuals are for older models and while the 8663A manuals cover the two-attenuator versions, they still have them connecting to the motherboard rather than the A2A8 PCB. I¡¯ve found no documentation that covers this later layout at all.
Regards
Tony
Hi Tony,
I'm fairly sure you should not have anything connected to that connector. On my 8663A there are two attenuators, that each has a ribbon cable, and yes, all signals controlling the attenuators are on the ribbon cables.
I have not seen that single unit, maybe someone else has some info about it?
Unfortunately it seems as I have not taken a picture of the front open like this, so I cant say for sure how my 8663A looks like. And now it's difficult to open, as there is several instruments stacked on top of it.
Regards, Askild
Hi,
While trying to fix my HP8662A I'm trying to work out if?it is missing an output attenuator relay drive cable - or not.
There appear to be at least two attenuator configurations in these instruments. My machine has two attenuator units, each with a ribbon cable attached - which I assume are the relay drive signals. I have seen pictures of other revs of the instrument with a single larger attenuator with a drive cable that comes from the motherboard, but no ribbon cables. I attach a picture of both configs, as far as I can research them.
I can't find any HP update/change documentation on the internet about when the configuration of the attenuators for this instrument changed - or indeed, if it is an instrument option.
My question regards the attenuator drive cable. In my own instrument with 2 attenuators there is no drive cable plugged in to the motherboard (see circled area in pictures). In the single attenuator model this cable exists (again, see picture). So should my instrument have that cable (i.e. it is missing), or do the ribbon cables carry those signals and therefore does not need one?
I hope that is clear!
Many thanks
Tony
|
Re: WTB: 5265A Digital Voltmeter for HP 5245L Electronic Counter.
Sorry , unit has already been spoken for.
|
Re: Setting up an Ubuntu + Prologix GPIB toolchain
I'm using an HP 82357B USB-GPIB Interface with as Raspberry-Pi and it works great. (on eBay they are less than $100 NOS)
This particular device requires its firmware to be loaded when plugged in.
In Linux this is done with a udev rule.??
The Linux GPIB driver is used in the kernel.
Since this is not part of the distribution you set up 'dkms' so that its rebuilt and included automatically when the kernel gets upgraded.
I've used it on Raspian (like Ubuntu since its also a Debian derivative) and with Fedora (my choice).
If you decide to go down this route I can help you set it up.
|
Re: Setting up an Ubuntu + Prologix GPIB toolchain
Sure. Was hoping to see a sample implementation in any language where instruments are polled and results put into a RDBMS right away. I did this with serial GPIO many years ago with postgres DB for the very fine precision timestamps tagging data as telemetry. MySQL wasn't that popular just then. If nothing else is available then ProLogix it is, but still wonder of the Chinese versions are fake or not..? the main website says a different price than their own vendors.?
Wanted to have a method to capture data and then run analysis on the runs. I do think I will need control application for some experiments but not as much as deep dives into experimental runs.?
On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 18:51 Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 6/2/22 18:09, Samudra wrote:
> HI, I looked around for USB/GPIB and Ethernet/GPIB solutions able to be
> used with Ubuntu (or, any modern LInux, but I use Ubuntu) OS - on a
> "ham-friendly" budget. I think the ProLogix Ethernet/GPIB module is
> about what I can afford, are there others?
>
> I see on this forum others have used Prologix, not sure if they all went
> ethernet or just USB. For those of you that did go Prologix
> Ethernet/GPIB, does ProLogix provide good programming tutorials/guides
> for writing test applications? Did you find any gotchas that you wish
> you had known? I'm ok with hard programming, and soft programming
> (scripting) with Python. I can also do C++ or C, etc. I will be using
> this to probe a future FPGA based RFSoC board and need to run automated
> tests.
>
> I looked for tutorials on YouTube, but didn't find any if at all...
> Perhaps I don't know where to look for TCP/IP connected GPIB programming
> on ProLogix?
? ?A tutorial on that would be pretty short.? The command set is a dozen
or so commands for both the Ethernet- and USB-connected versions.
Instead of looking for a tutorial, I suggest just looking at the manual.
? With your background, it will be a piece of cake.
? ?The USB version shows up as a serial port on the host machine, and
the Ethernet version listens on an IP port.? For that, to interact with
it directly, you can just telnet to it.? Programmatically, any
programming language that can open a TCP connection (and I can't think
of any offhand that can't) can talk to it.
? ?I've done a lot with these using R, but I think most people want to
use Python these days.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Harold Foster
Sergey Kubushyn
Paul Bicknell
vk2bea