Re: E4418B power supply schematic?
Hi Tom thank you for the link to the power supply
I have uploaded it to the E4418-9 file along with service and user information
Regards Paul B
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom B Sent: 30 May 2022 18:27 To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] E4418B power supply schematic? Hi Razvan, I don't have a schematic, but mine has an Artesyn NFN40-7608. The datasheet is here. Is the standby light on, or do you get nothing? Tom On 5/30/2022 10:49 AM, Razvan wrote: Hey everyone,
Is there any information out there on the power supply used in these
units? Mine appears to have died (I can't measure any output), and I
can't find the schematic in the CLIP files.
The full part number of the PSU seems to be JW 1287, JW being the
manufacturer.
This isn't the first time it failed. Many years ago a resistor went
open, but I don't remember how I troubleshooted that, and I didn't
take any notes...
Cheers,
Razvan
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 11:35 PM, Swiss wrote:
As far as checking Q502 in circuit, a diode check indicates that it is conducting, However its values are higher then that of Q501. Roughly from 1V to 1.5V. Whereas Q501 is .7 V drop. It's hard to say as the capacitors on their bases are charging up.
I can assure you: A steady-state voltage of approx. 10.5V (mind the polarity: Q502's emitter 10.5V more positive than its base, as may be concluded from 3) and 4)) between Q502's emitter and its base means its B-E-diode is non-existent. - Perhaps the trace between the cathode of CR502 and the base of Q502 or some other connection is gone? - Maybe there's an NPN transistor where a PNP should be at Q502? The capacitors at the bases of Q501 and Q502 are negligible when measuring steady DC voltages. Not sure what you mean by "However its values are higher then that of Q501. Roughly from 1V to 1.5V.". 1V or even 1.5V across a healthy B-E junction of Q502 is wrong; it should be near 0.7V max. Raymond
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 02:35 PM, Swiss wrote:
I double checked my DC measurements for the cathode of CR502 and the emitter of Q502 and they were the same as above.
Put a scope on pin 6 of U502, and there is minimal AC. 52 mV max. These are spurious signals from the lights in the room due to the switch mode LEDs above. The Average AC was about 5mV. Sometimes alittle less.Not sure if this is significant or not.
Checked the resistance from pin 6 U502 to the anode of CR502 and measured 248.54 ohms. R509 is good to go.
As far as checking Q502 in circuit, a diode check indicates that it is conducting, However its values are higher then that of Q501. Roughly from 1V to 1.5V. Whereas Q501 is .7 V drop. It's hard to say as the capacitors on their bases are charging up.
---- If 1V-1.5V measurements are with no power applied then Q502 is bad as Raymond also suggested. |Vbe| shouldn't exceed ~ 0.7V even in-circuit if power is not applied. Even with power applied I can't think of a case where multimeter can measure 1.5V forward bias voltage. I don't know how difficult is to remove Q502 but removing it and measuring it by itself will probably show a faulty Q502.? Ozan
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
I double checked my DC measurements for the cathode of CR502 and the emitter of Q502 and they were the same as above.
Put a scope on pin 6 of U502, and there is minimal AC. 52 mV max. These are spurious signals from the lights in the room due to the switch mode LEDs above. The Average AC was about 5mV. Sometimes alittle less.Not sure if this is significant or not.
Checked the resistance from pin 6 U502 to the anode of CR502 and measured 248.54 ohms. R509 is good to go.
As far as checking Q502 in circuit, a diode check indicates that it is conducting, However its values are higher then that of Q501. Roughly from 1V to 1.5V. Whereas Q501 is .7 V drop. It's hard to say as the capacitors on their bases are charging up.
I'm going to have to do surgery at some point, but I guess a good goal is to narrow it down as much as possible. Don't just like changing parts willy nilly. If U502 and Q502 are in question, I can change those one at a time and see how things go. I can also check the other 8116A. It's probably going to be the end of next week before I can do the above. Will be tied up till next Friday after this afternoon.
Thanks for the help and responses,
David
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Re: HP 3465A offset when input shorted
Quick update on this one, mostly replying for completion. I located the suggested 2N4117A from Langrex here in the UK for a measly ?3.50 which was acceptable coin for this DMM. Arrived today. Did a couple of checks to make sure it was indeed feasibly a FET and wired it as a diode and tested it successfully. This was then substituted in, the clamp tested and the unit recalibrated in DC only to start with.?The meter now has no offset and zeroes correctly. I did a basic DC calibration and ohms calibration against my 34401A and it's spot on now. I will do the AC calibration once I've obtained some cables.  Thanks all for the assistance - one more bit of HP kit back in action! Best regards, Chris
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 10:48 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
I assumed you were looking with a minimal amplitude AC signal. If incorrect, you're unnecessarily complicating things and making measurements with a DC meter essentially useless.
... as Ozan correctly says. Raymond
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 09:29 PM, Raymond Domp Frank wrote:
The combination of 3) and 4) would indicate Q502 has open base-emitter
I assumed you were looking with a minimal amplitude AC signal. If incorrect, you're unnecessarily complicating things and making measurements with a DC meter essentially useless. Raymond
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Thanks Jim.? I don''t know where to look for the input to the attenuator so I better start reading the manual.? Your diagnosis is what I hope is the problem, since repairing that may not be as major.? I recall determining that the output amplifier transistors are good.
Bob
On Monday, May 30, 2022, 11:40:15 AM PDT, Jim Summers <kd7f@...> wrote:
I sounds like there may be a problem with the reverse power protection.? There are PIN diodes in series with zener diodes to ground in the protection circuit and it sounds like perhaps one of the zeners has shorted out - probably from application of reverse power above the specification.?
If you were to look at the signal at the input to the attenuator and you see no distortion at high levels (+10dBm and above) then it is probably the reverse power protection circuitry that is at fault...? It is the first thing seen coming in from the front panel connector and I believe it is in one of the attenuator enclosures.?
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The 86200 is a entirely different architecture as the regular HP sensors , it is a diode based sensor that contains correction constants inside a EEPROM , if I remember they were based on the 85037 detectors rather than regular HP sensors
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2022 3:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 86200B detectors.
?
Hi.
Apologies if I've asked this here before, but the grey cell doesn't recall doing so...
I have two 86200B 50 Ohm 10 MHz to 3 GHz detector probe assemblies (with cables) that came with my slightly sick but still usable 8714B VNA.
Nothing wrong with them they both work OK (and confirm the issue with the VNA is the source not the RX, but that's another story.)
Question:
Which (if any) HPAK Stand Alone Power Meters, can use these probes as sensors?
Or has anyone created a stand alone device as a project, or an adapter for one of the common power meters?
I have not found any technical info about them (other than the basic specifications) anywhere online.
Just wondering if they can be used independently of the 8714, as low power sensors?
Cheers to All.
Dave G8KBV/G0WBX
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Hi.
Apologies if I've asked this here before, but the grey cell doesn't recall doing so...
I have two 86200B 50 Ohm 10 MHz to 3 GHz detector probe assemblies (with cables) that came with my slightly sick but still usable 8714B VNA.
Nothing wrong with them they both work OK (and confirm the issue with the VNA is the source not the RX, but that's another story.)
Question:
Which (if any) HPAK Stand Alone Power Meters, can use these probes as sensors?
Or has anyone created a stand alone device as a project, or an adapter for one of the common power meters?
I have not found any technical info about them (other than the basic specifications) anywhere online.
Just wondering if they can be used independently of the 8714, as low power sensors?
Cheers to All.
Dave G8KBV/G0WBX
|
Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 06:27 AM, Swiss wrote:
With the offset is set to -2.00 Vdc, the output of U502 reads -13.240.
1) anode of CR501 = -7.891 Vdc
2) emitter of Q501 = -1.0263 Vdc
3) cathode of CR502 = -9.446 Vdc
4) emitter of Q502 = 1.0324 Vdc
5) top of R511 (node 47) = .0024 Vdc
--- DC voltages do not add up to correct values, are these voltages in a state where output also has a large AC signal on it? For example cathode of CR502 is at -9.446V, which is the same node as base of Q502, but emitter of Q502 is at 1.0324V. This says BE junction has over 10V forward bias on it but I remember you checked the BE junction of Q502 before. Probably this is because of DC measurements vs AC signal present. If you have a scope you can also look at the same nodes on the scope.? You can try the same measurement with the smallest output amplitude to eliminate AC component. I would check connection from pin6 of U502 to anode of CR502 (same node of cathode of CR501). Left side of R502 is ~ -13V but CR501 and CR502 mid point is ~ -8V. From anode of CR501 to cathode of CR502 you have about two diode drops so diodes look fine. R509 may have gone open. Even if the opamp was faulty, without R509 going high resistance voltages do not look correct. Unless there is an AC signal and DC voltages are impacted by the AC. There is a small chance opamp may be oscillating too.? Ozan Ozan
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Re: HP 8116A woes with E42 error
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 03:27 PM, Swiss wrote:
1) anode of CR501 = -7.891 Vdc
2) emitter of Q501 = -1.0263 Vdc
3) cathode of CR502 = -9.446 Vdc
4) emitter of Q502 = 1.0324 Vdc
5) top of R511 (node 47) = .0024 Vdc
The combination of 3) and 4) would indicate Q502 has open base-emitter. Raymond
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Re: servicing 8671B Synthesized CW Generator 2.0-18 Ghz unit (first power up)
First red flag is the missing seal on the top screw which indicates someone been in there before .
The phaselock message normally clears once the unit warms up but it could also be a indication of a more serious issue
First thing I do is to pop the top lid and do a visual if you see any missing parts, disconnected cables , missing screws etc ,? next check your power supply rails ,? I don¡¯t remember if the 8672 has it but in a lot of units HP put LEDs
on the regulator boards so you can see quickly if any voltage is missing ,? you can find the service guide online which contains schematics and measure the supply voltages to see if everything is there .
If the power supplies are ok the next thing to check is the YTO and YTO driver ,? the 8672 uses a 2-6GHz YIG that is fed into a power amplifier and then a YTM ,? disconnect the YTO and connect a power meter or spectrum analyzer but be sure
to add a 20Db pad because the YTO produces quite a bit of power ,? if the YTO has no output check the Current though the tuning coil .
YIGs unlike VCOs only oscillate if the resonator is tuned to a frequency within the operating range ,? the resonator is tuned by a magnetic field produced by a coil so if the coil has insufficient or no current you wont see any output .
If there is no current more than likely you have a issue with the driver circuit .
If the YTO has output then you need to check the power amplifier and if this is ok check the YTM .
The YTM is in essence a multiplier with a YIG filter that multiplies the 2-6GHz Signal to 6-18GHz , once again it could be a driver issue as the YTM has a driver too or the YTM could be bad which is the worst case .
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Samudra via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2022 1:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] servicing 8671B Synthesized CW Generator 2.0-18 Ghz unit (first power up)
?
Hello Lothar and HAKE community I? just got cables shipped to me, and planned to use a semi rigid microwave test cable for early check? out between 8671b generator and 8566b spectrum analyzer.?
I had a feeling the 8671b? ?would not work as output? meters did not move? and can now? confirm that the set seems to not produce RF output or if it does the left side display panel is quiet. See picture?attached.?
When I depress the preset 2Ghz button, range display is showing -110 to +10 dBm but with RF output to on, ALC and RF display is blank, NOT PHASE LOCKED sign is on and that's it.?
Any general servicing checks I can do ? As I am not exactly moved in to my new apartment I won't have time to do a detailed breakdown until next month. I do have other signal generator and my work involves designing a new board so if this
unit does not ever work it's not a big deal but still would like to know what I can do. The unit was purchased from a personal estate liquidator and was in unknown condition when I picked it up.
?I checked the rear connectors and both 10 MHz and 100 MHz ref outputs are producing signal. Seen using 8342a counter.?
Not much in the rear panel, so wondering if this is a case of bad components or loose module connections.? The unit had been mishandled during shipping several times.
?
On Tue, May 24, 2022, 00:09 Lothar baier <Lothar@...> wrote:
Generally use the distribution amplifier outputs it¡¯s the best way to do it and also make sure to terminate the unused outputs !
As far as the 8671B concerns, turn on the unit and let it warm up,? make sure the ALC switch is set to INT , Set the RF Switch to ON , use the big knob to set the range to 0dBm
and the vernier knob to set the meter to read 0dBm , there should be no annunciator be on except the ALC INT and RF ON , connect the power meter to the RF Output and your power meter should read 0dbm ,? change the range to 10dBm , your unlevel light may come
on if so reduce the level using the vernier knob to 8dBm or less ( the spec for the 8671B is 8dBm if I remember correctly ) , your power meter should agree with the meter in the 8671B within about 1Db or so however consider that this generation of generators
is not as accurate as later model generators such as the 8360 series or PSG !
?
?
Hi, I recently cheaply (< $700) acquired working (they power on) set from a deceased engineer's estate sale in the US:
-
HP 8566B 100 Hz - 22 GHz spectrum analyzer (two sections)?
-
HP 8671B CW Synthesized Generator (2-18 GHz)
I have used HP/Keysight/Agilent systems in labs before, but this time these are "mine" :-)? I also have a (nicely serviced and working) HP 5342A Microwave Frequency counter, that should
be good to 18 GHz, and I want to experiment (I am a ham radio operator, engineer) with RF signals for TX, RX by designing a few PCBs using microwave semiconductors, FPGA etc.,?
I also have coming soon to my home lab a GPS disciplined oscillator, 10 MHz OCXO ref, with a single output, but from another project I have a unity-gain 16-bank (1 in, 4 output) BNC video distribution panel,
which if all sixteen (16) inputs were utilized, would produce 64 outputs. So, can I ask in general for some assorted configuration tips please?
-
When the CW Generator is turned on,after warm up, what is the procedure to check if the power meter (left side) is functional? the right side does power up with illuminated symbols - and frequency adjustment can be done manually, but what about the left side,
what should I be seeing to verify functionality - other than RF produced that can be "seen" in the spectrum analyzer - I know that unit works.?
-
Assuming I want to distribute 10 Mhz clock, ;is distributing the master clock ref via BNC T-connectors? worse than individual lines from the unity amplifier bank??
-
Assuming a single 10 MHz clock distributed: how do I verify "correct operation" of the Spec. An + CW Generator + Frequency Counter ? What are the go/no-go tests??
-
I want to use automation to record and run tests - and have an available LINUX workstation in the same rack with PCI-E x1 and x16 slots available. Any tips on LINUX GPIB etc? Is a GPIB-USB better than GPIB-Ethernet for accessing multiple machines? Any horror
stories? How is the support in LINUX compared to Windows 10/11 nowadays for GPIB users who don't have NI toolsets yet?
-
is earthing a big deal between the units if they are fed from the same power distribution unit on a single phase??
Thanks for your time. For convenience I have numbered the questions above. Didn't want to create too many topics on this first day of joining this group.?
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Re: E4418B power supply schematic?
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the datasheet. I saved it for next time.
This time I got lucky - another one of those resistors was open. It was the same value as the one I replaced several years ago, so I still had some spares.
The standby light was off.
Cheers,
Razvan
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On 30/05/2022 20:27, Tom B wrote: Hi Razvan,
I don't have a schematic, but mine has an Artesyn NFN40-7608. The datasheet is here.
Is the standby light on, or do you get nothing?
Tom
On 5/30/2022 10:49 AM, Razvan wrote:
Hey everyone,
Is there any information out there on the power supply used in these units? Mine appears to have died (I can't measure any output), and I can't find the schematic in the CLIP files.
The full part number of the PSU seems to be JW 1287, JW being the manufacturer.
This isn't the first time it failed. Many years ago a resistor went open, but I don't remember how I troubleshooted that, and I didn't take any notes...
Cheers,
Razvan
|
I sounds like there may be a problem with the reverse power protection.? There are PIN diodes in series with zener diodes to ground in the protection circuit and it sounds like perhaps one of the zeners has shorted out - probably from application of reverse power above the specification.?
If you were to look at the signal at the input to the attenuator and you see no distortion at high levels (+10dBm and above) then it is probably the reverse power protection circuitry that is at fault...? It is the first thing seen coming in from the front panel connector and I believe it is in one of the attenuator enclosures.?
|
Re: servicing 8671B Synthesized CW Generator 2.0-18 Ghz unit (first power up)
Hello Lothar and HAKE community I? just got cables shipped to me, and planned to use a semi rigid microwave test cable for early check? out between 8671b generator and 8566b spectrum analyzer.?
I had a feeling the 8671b? ?would not work as output? meters did not move? and can now? confirm that the set seems to not produce RF output or if it does the left side display panel is quiet. See picture?attached.?
When I depress the preset 2Ghz button, range display is showing -110 to +10 dBm but with RF output to on, ALC and RF display is blank, NOT PHASE LOCKED sign is on and that's it.?
Any general servicing checks I can do ? As I am not exactly moved in to my new apartment I won't have time to do a detailed breakdown until next month. I do have other signal generator and my work involves designing a new board so if this unit does not ever work it's not a big deal but still would like to know what I can do. The unit was purchased from a personal estate liquidator and was in unknown condition when I picked it up.
?I checked the rear connectors and both 10 MHz and 100 MHz ref outputs are producing signal. Seen using 8342a counter.?
Not much in the rear panel, so wondering if this is a case of bad components or loose module connections.? The unit had been mishandled during shipping several times.
Thank you.?
On Tue, May 24, 2022, 00:09 Lothar baier < Lothar@...> wrote:
Generally use the distribution amplifier outputs it¡¯s the best way to do it and also make sure to terminate the unused outputs !
As far as the 8671B concerns, turn on the unit and let it warm up,? make sure the ALC switch is set to INT , Set the RF Switch to ON , use the big knob to set the range to 0dBm and the vernier knob to set the meter to read 0dBm , there
should be no annunciator be on except the ALC INT and RF ON , connect the power meter to the RF Output and your power meter should read 0dbm ,? change the range to 10dBm , your unlevel light may come on if so reduce the level using the vernier knob to 8dBm
or less ( the spec for the 8671B is 8dBm if I remember correctly ) , your power meter should agree with the meter in the 8671B within about 1Db or so however consider that this generation of generators is not as accurate as later model generators such as the
8360 series or PSG !
?
?
Hi, I recently cheaply (< $700) acquired working (they power on) set from a deceased engineer's estate sale in the US:
-
HP 8566B 100 Hz - 22 GHz spectrum analyzer (two sections)?
-
HP 8671B CW Synthesized Generator (2-18 GHz)
I have used HP/Keysight/Agilent systems in labs before, but this time these are "mine" :-)? I also have a (nicely serviced and working) HP 5342A Microwave Frequency counter, that should be good to 18 GHz, and
I want to experiment (I am a ham radio operator, engineer) with RF signals for TX, RX by designing a few PCBs using microwave semiconductors, FPGA etc.,?
I also have coming soon to my home lab a GPS disciplined oscillator, 10 MHz OCXO ref, with a single output, but from another project I have a unity-gain 16-bank (1 in, 4 output) BNC video distribution panel,
which if all sixteen (16) inputs were utilized, would produce 64 outputs. So, can I ask in general for some assorted configuration tips please?
-
When the CW Generator is turned on,after warm up, what is the procedure to check if the power meter (left side) is functional? the right side does power up with illuminated symbols - and frequency adjustment can be done manually, but what about the left side,
what should I be seeing to verify functionality - other than RF produced that can be "seen" in the spectrum analyzer - I know that unit works.?
-
Assuming I want to distribute 10 Mhz clock, ;is distributing the master clock ref via BNC T-connectors? worse than individual lines from the unity amplifier bank??
-
Assuming a single 10 MHz clock distributed: how do I verify "correct operation" of the Spec. An + CW Generator + Frequency Counter ? What are the go/no-go tests??
-
I want to use automation to record and run tests - and have an available LINUX workstation in the same rack with PCI-E x1 and x16 slots available. Any tips on LINUX GPIB etc? Is a GPIB-USB better than GPIB-Ethernet for accessing multiple machines? Any horror
stories? How is the support in LINUX compared to Windows 10/11 nowadays for GPIB users who don't have NI toolsets yet?
-
is earthing a big deal between the units if they are fed from the same power distribution unit on a single phase??
Thanks for your time. For convenience I have numbered the questions above. Didn't want to create too many topics on this first day of joining this group.?
|
Re: E4418B power supply schematic?
Hi Razvan,
I don't have a schematic, but mine has an Artesyn NFN40-7608. The datasheet is here.
Is the standby light on, or do you get nothing?
Tom
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On 5/30/2022 10:49 AM, Razvan wrote: Hey everyone,
Is there any information out there on the power supply used in these units? Mine appears to have died (I can't measure any output), and I can't find the schematic in the CLIP files.
The full part number of the PSU seems to be JW 1287, JW being the manufacturer.
This isn't the first time it failed. Many years ago a resistor went open, but I don't remember how I troubleshooted that, and I didn't take any notes...
Cheers,
Razvan
|
According to the manual on the Keysight site, 08562-90124 should be a complete set of the 'latest' CLIPs.? The CLIP for A4 2923A prefix should be 08562-90128.? You'd have to ask Dave at Artek whether his copy of '124 includes it as Keysight's manual also says "CLIPs may not be available for recently introduced assemblies". Whether this would help is a different matter as the same manual essentially says A4 is factory only repair.
On Mon, May 30, 2022 at 8:56 AM hardyhansendk via <hardyhansen= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Richard
Artek have the? 08562-90124 CLIP.
Hardy
?
?
Hi All I'm Looking for a HP service manual for the 8562A but
not the one that seems commonly available (08562-90062 for serial number prefix
2913A) my serial number is 2923A, I'm looking at the log amp detector and the
trouble shooting? seems completely wrong so I suspect there has been
changes, If anyone has prefix 2923A or later or could point me in the right
direction i would be grateful, thanks
|
Hi Richard
Artek have the? 08562-90124 CLIP.
Hardy
?
?
Hi All I'm Looking for a HP service manual for the 8562A but
not the one that seems commonly available (08562-90062 for serial number prefix
2913A) my serial number is 2923A, I'm looking at the log amp detector and the
trouble shooting? seems completely wrong so I suspect there has been
changes, If anyone has prefix 2923A or later or could point me in the right
direction i would be grateful, thanks
|
Hi All I'm Looking for a HP service manual for the 8562A but not the one that seems commonly available (08562-90062 for serial number prefix 2913A) my serial number is 2923A, I'm looking at the log amp detector and the trouble shooting? seems completely wrong so I suspect there has been changes, If anyone has prefix 2923A or later or could point me in the right direction i would be grateful, thanks
|
Paul Bicknell
Richard