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8640B Counter
The counter on my 8640B sig gen is acting up.? When I first turn it on the most significant number on the display is wrong and is preceded by a decimal point.? For example if the gen is set to 51.2004 MHz the display shows .31.2004.? After a few minutes the display corrects itself.? It appears there is an electrolytic that is being reformed but that is just a guess.? How hard is it to get to the counter board?? Am I analyzing this wrong?
Thanks, Bill A |
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Re: New member (with a dso-x 3012a not booting), Summary - Fixed
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 9:24 AM Tommy <tommy@...> wrote:
Glad you got your scope running again. Regarding your other point, that is a disappointing situation. There is another long thread about that on the eevblog forum: From your email address I assume you are probably in Sweden. I don't know if the Keysight not-a-business-customer situation might be slightly better currently in the US than in some other parts of the world, and if it is, whether it will soon be just as bad. Previously I was able to order parts online directly from Keysight through their parts website. A couple of years ago that changed and you have to be registered with a business account to be able to order parts. A year or so ago I was still able to order parts by calling them and ordering over the phone. I don't know if that would still be possible today without a business account. |
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Re: Looking for a scanned operating/service manual of the HP 215A Pulse Generator
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGreetings,I just checked and Dave at Artek Manuals () lists the operating/service manual for download at $12.50. ?If you want a CD as well add $2.25 if you are located in the USA, or $3.00 if outside the USA. Artek manuals scans are top quality! ?I have ordered numerous manuals from Artek and have always been very pleased. Best wishes, Ken
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI stand corrected, my CAL output is -21 ¨C 22dB. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: 21 janvier 2022 13:16 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? Greg?: The thing is I suspected an issue with the o-rings, but they¡¯re all good. I¡¯m pretty sure the issue is not mechanical. However , I managed to break one of the plunger and I need to replace it when I first disassembled it. The upside is I am now very comfortable manipulating it. ? Next steps : find a plunger and bench the ATT correctly. I have a feeling my primary issue : AMPDT : ?GAIN FAIL is cause by something else. I can get passed this error if I feed -17dB 300Mhz at the input. My CAL output is at around -18dB, which is also an issue. ? Why I targeted the ATT, is because the marker would read -45dB or more when the ATT was not set to a multiple of 20 (-20dB, -40dB) ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Greg Muir via groups.io ? Failed O rings in these attenuators is a common problem as the equipment ages.? The material used to make them eventually dries out either from heat or environmental issues and becomes brittle thusly the O ring frequently crumbles and falls off.? This then causes either non-actuation of an attenuator stage or intermittent operation at best. ? We once tried to replace the O rings in an attenuator.? The first step was to measure a good item then try to find a replacement.? This required considerable disassembly of the attenuator then trying to find a O-ring that had not aged to the point where it was not wither brittle or its dimensions had changed.? Then the selection process continued.? At that point it was not? known what material the O rings were made out of.? I did hear from another engineer to be careful because some O rings will outgas affecting the contact reliability in the attenuator.? After randomly selecting a possibly suitable material the next step was to locate a small quantity of the O rings.? This resulted in eventually finding a manufacturer who would provide some samples instead of us having to buy hundreds of them to satisfy a minimum order. ? After all of this was done it was then decided that the total time and energy wasted I trying to ¡°make do¡± by an in-house repair was far overshadowed by simply sending the attenuator to the repair agency which was the final outcome. ? The O rings are there for a reason mainly to cushion the blow of the solenoid when it actuates. ? Greg |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGreg?: The thing is I suspected an issue with the o-rings, but they¡¯re all good. I¡¯m pretty sure the issue is not mechanical. However , I managed to break one of the plunger and I need to replace it when I first disassembled it. The upside is I am now very comfortable manipulating it. ? Next steps : find a plunger and bench the ATT correctly. I have a feeling my primary issue : AMPDT : ?GAIN FAIL is cause by something else. I can get passed this error if I feed -17dB 300Mhz at the input. My CAL output is at around -18dB, which is also an issue. ? Why I targeted the ATT, is because the marker would read -45dB or more when the ATT was not set to a multiple of 20 (-20dB, -40dB) ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Greg Muir via groups.io
Sent: 21 janvier 2022 12:57 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? Failed O rings in these attenuators is a common problem as the equipment ages.? The material used to make them eventually dries out either from heat or environmental issues and becomes brittle thusly the O ring frequently crumbles and falls off.? This then causes either non-actuation of an attenuator stage or intermittent operation at best. ? We once tried to replace the O rings in an attenuator.? The first step was to measure a good item then try to find a replacement.? This required considerable disassembly of the attenuator then trying to find a O-ring that had not aged to the point where it was not wither brittle or its dimensions had changed.? Then the selection process continued.? At that point it was not? known what material the O rings were made out of.? I did hear from another engineer to be careful because some O rings will outgas affecting the contact reliability in the attenuator.? After randomly selecting a possibly suitable material the next step was to locate a small quantity of the O rings.? This resulted in eventually finding a manufacturer who would provide some samples instead of us having to buy hundreds of them to satisfy a minimum order. ? After all of this was done it was then decided that the total time and energy wasted I trying to ¡°make do¡± by an in-house repair was far overshadowed by simply sending the attenuator to the repair agency which was the final outcome. ? The O rings are there for a reason mainly to cushion the blow of the solenoid when it actuates. ? Greg |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
Failed O rings in these attenuators is a common problem as the equipment ages.? The material used to make them eventually dries out either from heat or environmental issues and becomes brittle thusly the O ring frequently crumbles and falls off.? This then causes either non-actuation of an attenuator stage or intermittent operation at best. ? We once tried to replace the O rings in an attenuator.? The first step was to measure a good item then try to find a replacement.? This required considerable disassembly of the attenuator then trying to find a O-ring that had not aged to the point where it was not wither brittle or its dimensions had changed.? Then the selection process continued.? At that point it was not? known what material the O rings were made out of.? I did hear from another engineer to be careful because some O rings will outgas affecting the contact reliability in the attenuator.? After randomly selecting a possibly suitable material the next step was to locate a small quantity of the O rings.? This resulted in eventually finding a manufacturer who would provide some samples instead of us having to buy hundreds of them to satisfy a minimum order. ? After all of this was done it was then decided that the total time and energy wasted I trying to ¡°make do¡± by an in-house repair was far overshadowed by simply sending the attenuator to the repair agency which was the final outcome. ? The O rings are there for a reason mainly to cushion the blow of the solenoid when it actuates. ? Greg |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýFound what I was looking for. Breadboarding done. ?
? Now actively looking for a plunger. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: 21 janvier 2022 11:05 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? Anyone can pinpoint me to the schematics of the drive board for my 33321-60036 ATT ? While waiting to find a replacement plunger, I will breadboard the necessary to electrically actuate the solenoids. I am not familiar with HP documentation, but I heard something about looking for a CLIP. ? ? From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux ? ?Since I have a plunger/piton broken at the DC Block, I can¡¯t make measurements easily. I am getting inconsistent measurements when tje ATT is assembled.? ? At this point here¡¯s what I think I should do : ? Replace the broken plunger to put the ATT in mechanical order ? Bench measure the ATT correctly? Show a video of the issue if it still persists.? ? Looking on ebay, I see many DC-4Ghz 70 dB ATT. The ones that are not the same exact number as mine (33321-60036) seem to only differ in their electronic driver board. They are not too expensive at around 60$. (I talk about other 33321 series ATT) ? However, for some reason, the same ATT as mine cost 5 times more, that is a bummer.? ? With all the trouble shooting done to date, I think my ATT was fine and the problem is elsewhere :( ? A fellow member of the group offered to send me one of his ATT to help me fix mine.? ? ? ?
? Hi, ? Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done. So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated. But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.? Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators. ? But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active. If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side. ? Regards, Askild ? ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
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New member (with a dso-x 3012a not booting), Summary - Fixed
Thank you all who responded, Glen and Steve you were right on the money with your advice: ?"Read the EEvblog threads on DSO-X 3000".
BTW, those guys are crazy!! A special Thank You to user maurit here for leading me in the right direction and answering numerous questions during scope recovery! I eventually managed to restart the scope while logged in via the serial port and so loaded new firmware from USB, that was fortunate. The scope is now in operation and I'm a happy camper! As stated I first made a case with Keysight support and actually got a call from them, a nice call alright but the message was disappointing: we only do business with other businesses.?I think they would have fixed my scope otherwise which is great for a 10 year old instrument but something to consider before buying Keysight if you're not a company! |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAnyone can pinpoint me to the schematics of the drive board for my 33321-60036 ATT ? While waiting to find a replacement plunger, I will breadboard the necessary to electrically actuate the solenoids. I am not familiar with HP documentation, but I heard something about looking for a CLIP. ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Nicolas Mailloux
Sent: 21 janvier 2022 06:54 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 8594E input attenuator issue? ? ?Since I have a plunger/piton broken at the DC Block, I can¡¯t make measurements easily. I am getting inconsistent measurements when tje ATT is assembled.? ? At this point here¡¯s what I think I should do : ? Replace the broken plunger to put the ATT in mechanical order ? Bench measure the ATT correctly? Show a video of the issue if it still persists.? ? Looking on ebay, I see many DC-4Ghz 70 dB ATT. The ones that are not the same exact number as mine (33321-60036) seem to only differ in their electronic driver board. They are not too expensive at around 60$. (I talk about other 33321 series ATT) ? However, for some reason, the same ATT as mine cost 5 times more, that is a bummer.? ? With all the trouble shooting done to date, I think my ATT was fine and the problem is elsewhere :( ? A fellow member of the group offered to send me one of his ATT to help me fix mine.? ? ? ?
? Hi, ? Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done. So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated. But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.? Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators. ? But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active. If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side. ? Regards, Askild ? ? On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý?Since I have a plunger/piton broken at the DC Block, I can¡¯t make measurements easily. I am getting inconsistent measurements when tje ATT is assembled.?
At this point here¡¯s what I think I should do :
Replace the broken plunger to put the ATT in mechanical order
Bench measure the ATT correctly?
Show a video of the issue if it still persists.?
Looking on ebay, I see many DC-4Ghz 70 dB ATT. The ones that are not the same exact number as mine (33321-60036) seem to only differ in their electronic driver board. They are not too expensive at around 60$. (I talk about other 33321 series ATT)
However, for some reason, the same ATT as mine cost 5 times more, that is a bummer.?
With all the trouble shooting done to date, I think my ATT was fine and the problem is elsewhere :(
A fellow member of the group offered to send me one of his ATT to help me fix mine.?
Le 21 janv. 2022 ¨¤ 02:16, Askild <megafluffy@...> a ¨¦crit?: ?
Hi,
Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done.
So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated.
But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.?
Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators.
But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active.
If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side.
Regards,
Askild
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote:
50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.? |
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Re: Thermal image database for equipment ?
Hi,
I do rely a lot on my IR cam, in particular for troubleshooting a device that lets off smoke or bad smells. You can easily detect shorted caps by controlled application of voltage and current on the supply lines. And many other things. But I think it will be difficult to setup reproductible conditions. Some thoughts: If you want to provide absolute values you must have a lot of expertise in thermal imaging, you must take into account environmental constraints like temperature and reflections of heat sources (lights, radiators), you must take into account fans whose airflow is usually altered when you remove covers. Often boards are installed such that you do not clearly see all components, if at all. That makes a database of known good units a large endavour, and I doubt it will be that much useful for troubleshooting. To my experience, an overheating component is quickly and clearly visible among all others. Then its either the component that is faulty, or some other very close not restraining power flow. BTW, I noticed that in many HP power supplies and some measurement untis the hottest part are the bleeding resistors across the capacitors in the power supply... :-/ cheers Martin |
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Re: Thermal image database for equipment ?
Looks like a great idea, if you can square the conditions used for taking thermal photos, and the conditions be reproductible... 73 de pu2sex Alexandre Enviado do meu Tele-Movel Em sex, 21 de jan de 2022 02:48, Tim Tuck <timt@...> escreveu: Hi all, |
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Re: 8594E input attenuator issue?
Hi, Yes its correct that its not needed to have and output terminator to measure the DC resistance, but you need to calculate the resistance, as you have done. So as you write, 61.11ohm is correct to measure between input and ground for a 10dB attenuator, when the output is not terminated. But when a terminator is added to the output , it should then measure 50 ohm.? Nicolas, your previous measurement of resistance between input and output, and input to ground and output to ground, all these values are correct for 10, 20 and 40 dB attenuators. But that you did not get 50 ohm when you used an terminator on the output, you should check that the terminator measures 50 ohm, and also check that the DC-block was not active. If this is OK, try moving the terminator to the opposite side, and measure the other way, as there might be a bad contact on one side. Regards, Askild On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:42 PM Ozan <ozan_g@...> wrote: 50-ohm termination is needed to get the correct attenuation but for measuring resistances it is not needed.? |
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Thermal image database for equipment ?
Hi all,
I was having a discussion with a technician repairing some old equipment and he had taken IR pics with his FLIR to identify hot-spots. His wish was that there should be a database of IR pics for know good equipment to compare against. A quick search of the net didn't turn up anything beyond db's of IR for training AI mostly for security cameras. Does such a database exist ? If not, would creating such a database, that could be contributed to by all, be a worthwhile endeavour ? comments ? thoughts ? thanks Tm |
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Re: Frequency Counter 5340A
Bob Albert
Pardon me; the two primaries are for operation at two line voltages, 120 or 240.? I still don't understand two secondaries.? But around 15 VAC at 120 mA or so ought to do it, easily found.
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:40:29 PM PST, Bob Albert <bob91343@...> wrote:
After looking at the diagram, it appears that the two secondary windings deliver the same voltage, enough to supply 21VDC at 100 mA total after rectification and filtering.? I have no idea why two primary and two secondary windings unless it pertains to some noise or isolation consideration. What is the symptom that resulted from an open primary?? I would think the same voltage, or just a bit lower, would result, plus shortened life for the remaining primary winding. That looks like a 723 or similar regulator.? The oven is run from some other source. Bob
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 06:57:15 PM PST, David Hopkins <davhop@...> wrote:
Gentlemen, I have a Model 5340A frequency counter with the? 001 option ( High Stability Oscillator)? This option is powered from a transformer Marked 9100-3021 One of the primary windings has gone open circuit and I need to replace the transformer. I can't find the specifications for this transformer. What I need to know is the voltage rating of the two secondary windings. Looking at the schematic? on page 7-14 of the service manual leads me to suspect they are not the same value. Can anyone help me identify what the secondary voltage is for each winding> Thanks David ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Re: Frequency Counter 5340A
Bob Albert
After looking at the diagram, it appears that the two secondary windings deliver the same voltage, enough to supply 21VDC at 100 mA total after rectification and filtering.? I have no idea why two primary and two secondary windings unless it pertains to some noise or isolation consideration. What is the symptom that resulted from an open primary?? I would think the same voltage, or just a bit lower, would result, plus shortened life for the remaining primary winding. That looks like a 723 or similar regulator.? The oven is run from some other source. Bob
On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 06:57:15 PM PST, David Hopkins <davhop@...> wrote:
Gentlemen, I have a Model 5340A frequency counter with the? 001 option ( High Stability Oscillator)? This option is powered from a transformer Marked 9100-3021 One of the primary windings has gone open circuit and I need to replace the transformer. I can't find the specifications for this transformer. What I need to know is the voltage rating of the two secondary windings. Looking at the schematic? on page 7-14 of the service manual leads me to suspect they are not the same value. Can anyone help me identify what the secondary voltage is for each winding> Thanks David ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Re: Bad HP436A power meter
Hello All!
Maybe someone has seen this: I have a bad HP436A power meter. I have a good one to test it against. The boards from the bad one, swapped one at a time into the good one, all test good. The bad meter has essentially a mainframe problem. It does not display? "-3" when no signal is input. It shows "1" and does not respond to the calibrator. The only active devices left are the display drivers and a 7404 on the front panel push button assy. It seems to me that it could well be the culprit. everything has been tested against a good head, cable and meter, so none of those is the problem. And if a display driver were bad, that would only affect the digit associated with it, right?? Something in the actual frame itself...
Anyone seen this before?
TIA
Jeff
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Martin
Alexandre Souza