Yes, there are some compatibility issues.? I have 1 pair of ears that won't work with the installed handles.? The cutout angle is too sharp.? These came extra in a bag with my 3456 meter and I was told they would work with the 850x gear.? They don't.
So I need to research the correct ears.? I have the original manuals for the VNA stack.? They should have the correct part numbers (I hope).? I just haven't had time to dig them out yet.
|
Re: Sample preparation for Impedance Analyzer
Thanks Vladan. That paper will be useful. I also found the manual for the modern Keysight 16196A (851422.pdf download) to be useful.? Have you ever used the coaxial test fixture? It is coaxial as in 50 ohm impedance, I still do not know what the donuts are. Peter
Peter,
is a description of the measurement method and ratioanle.
Vladan
|
Re: [TekScopes] Removing the Adhesive From Hell
This discussion (which is also on another list) is helpful. I have an antique microphone which had masking tape on part of the outside. The finish is crinkle black. I could never get the adhesive off. Since the part that has the residue comes off I will give it a test with hot water and Goo Gone. I will report my success (or lack of it) to the list.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11/15/2021 3:33 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: Hot water is simply amazing.
Masking tape is a problem child. Its mastic
starts out
sticky, then progresses to gooey, and ends up dry and
crumbly.
I find that masking tape lets go if it is allowed to stay
wet. It could indicate a polar component to its mastic,
or simply be the paper backing losing integrity.
I tend to start with water and detergent if the item
is just grungy, as it cleans up dirt, coffee, and soda
stains very well.
I then work my way to the semi polar/non polar solvents,
like alcohol/water solutions. 91% IPA most of the time,
but there are times when 70% is just a little more polar,
and works better. 70% will dissolve sugar where 91%, not
so much.
Finally ending up in the non-polar solvents, like naptha,
which works really well on gummy lables.
Goo-gone works well, but make sure you keep it well shook
up. It tends to separate into oil and solvent layers.
I have had best luck using a spray cleaner on the dried on
mastic from masking tape.
If the masking tape's mastic has gone gooey, naptha works
best.
-Chuck Harris
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:47:53 -0800 "Roy Thistle"
<roy.thistle@...> wrote:
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 08:15 AM, n4buq wrote:
heat, I've found that pouring/soaking in boiling water will help
loosen some adhesives. Heat makes solvents (like water... the so called 'universal solvent')
dissolve compounds more completely. Yes... it's obvious; but, IMO
it's underutilised, as a cleaning method. Just hot water and soap
dissolves a lot of 'dirt' ... even if only eventually.
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
|
Re: Sample preparation for Impedance Analyzer
Peter,
is a description of the measurement method and ratioanle.
Vladan
|
Re: [TekScopes] Removing the Adhesive From Hell
Hot water is simply amazing. Masking tape is a problem child. Its mastic starts out sticky, then progresses to gooey, and ends up dry and crumbly. I find that masking tape lets go if it is allowed to stay wet. It could indicate a polar component to its mastic, or simply be the paper backing losing integrity. I tend to start with water and detergent if the item is just grungy, as it cleans up dirt, coffee, and soda stains very well. I then work my way to the semi polar/non polar solvents, like alcohol/water solutions. 91% IPA most of the time, but there are times when 70% is just a little more polar, and works better. 70% will dissolve sugar where 91%, not so much. Finally ending up in the non-polar solvents, like naptha, which works really well on gummy lables. Goo-gone works well, but make sure you keep it well shook up. It tends to separate into oil and solvent layers. I have had best luck using a spray cleaner on the dried on mastic from masking tape. If the masking tape's mastic has gone gooey, naptha works best. -Chuck Harris On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 14:47:53 -0800 "Roy Thistle" <roy.thistle@...> wrote: On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 08:15 AM, n4buq wrote:
heat, I've found that pouring/soaking in boiling water will help
loosen some adhesives.
Heat makes solvents (like water... the so called 'universal solvent')
dissolve compounds more completely. Yes... it's obvious; but, IMO
it's underutilised, as a cleaning method. Just hot water and soap
dissolves a lot of 'dirt' ... even if only eventually.
|
Re: Sample preparation for Impedance Analyzer
Those donuts have two O/D sizes but a selection of I/D for the holes Are these actually sample holders for the two sizes: 7mm diam x 20mm length 10mm diam x 20mm length (Outer Diameter and Inner Diameter. There are too many acronyms. I found CRT in a C++ Tutorial but it does not mean Cathode Ray Tube)
Thanks Dave; I found an Operation Note for the HP 16091A Cavity test fixture. It does not explain how to use it. There are a couple of vague paragraphs in the HP 4191A manual (page 3-50 in mine) but nothing on how to use this test fixture. These appear on Ebay for $1500 or more. Who buys or? uses them? There is more information in the 1980 Jan HP Journal than the 4191A manual, and some pictures of them in use.? I assume these are the pins to solder/connect to the sample but no explanation on preparing a sample.
This is the cavity. What are the donuts in the round container? Are these dielectric samples? Why do they have a hole in them? Has anyone seen/have a manual for this HP 16091A Coaxial Test Fixture? Is it coaxial as in an RF cavity? I don't think so because it is too small for 1 GHz.? I think it is a coaxial shield for minimum stray capacitance/inductance.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 9:33 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 11/14/21 8:57 PM, peter bunge wrote:
> How are connections made to samples with granular surfaces? Any
> suggestions apart from sputtering?
> How about conductive paint (rear defroster repair, Permatex has two
> products)?
> How are samples prepared for an instrument like the HP4191A? Is there a
> document that covers the subject?
> What do the samples look like and what dimensinos? It does not appear to
> be in the 4191A manual.
> Is there anyone? with actual experience making up samples and measuring
> them?
> My interest is in measuring the properties of highly conductive samples
> at different frequencies.
? ?How about colloidal silver?? The kind that's used in electron
microscopy, not the kind that's used by "healing crystals" etc nutjobs.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: [TekScopes] Removing the Adhesive From Hell
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 08:15 AM, n4buq wrote:
heat, I've found that pouring/soaking in boiling water will help loosen some adhesives.
Heat makes solvents (like water... the so called 'universal solvent') dissolve compounds more completely.? Yes... it's obvious; but, IMO it's underutilised, as a cleaning method. Just hot water and soap dissolves a lot of 'dirt' ... even if only eventually.
|
Re: Sample preparation for Impedance Analyzer
Thanks Dave; I found an Operation Note for the HP 16091A Cavity test fixture. It does not explain how to use it. There are a couple of vague paragraphs in the HP 4191A manual (page 3-50 in mine) but nothing on how to use this test fixture. These appear on Ebay for $1500 or more. Who buys or? uses them? There is more information in the 1980 Jan HP Journal than the 4191A manual, and some pictures of them in use.? I assume these are the pins to solder/connect to the sample but no explanation on preparing a sample.
This is the cavity. What are the donuts in the round container? Are these dielectric samples? Why do they have a hole in them? Has anyone seen/have a manual for this HP 16091A Coaxial Test Fixture? Is it coaxial as in an RF cavity? I don't think so because it is too small for 1 GHz.? I think it is a coaxial shield for minimum stray capacitance/inductance.
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 9:33 PM Dave McGuire < mcguire@...> wrote: On 11/14/21 8:57 PM, peter bunge wrote:
> How are connections made to samples with granular surfaces? Any
> suggestions apart from sputtering?
> How about conductive paint (rear defroster repair, Permatex has two
> products)?
> How are samples prepared for an instrument like the HP4191A? Is there a
> document that covers the subject?
> What do the samples look like and what dimensinos? It does not appear to
> be in the 4191A manual.
> Is there anyone? with actual experience making up samples and measuring
> them?
> My interest is in measuring the properties of highly conductive samples
> at different frequencies.
? ?How about colloidal silver?? The kind that's used in electron
microscopy, not the kind that's used by "healing crystals" etc nutjobs.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: 54615B Agilent Scope Amplitude Low When Measuring 120V AC
Robert makes a good point. Totally isolated equipment is safer for line voltage measurements.?
On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 1:01 PM Robert G8RPI via <robert8rpi= [email protected]> wrote: A suitable probe is
A simple accidential reversionof line and neutral with a standard probe will result in any or all the following possible outcomes:
Tripped earth fault breaker.
Fried probe cable.
Fried 'scope.
Electrocuted operator
Burnt down property
No matter how careful you are about personal safety, even normal surges and spikes on the mains supply cn be high enough to damage normal probes and your scope.
Note that the "mains rated" probes intended for handheld 'scopes have no advantage on a normal 'scope thay? are intended for 'scopes with fully isolated inputs.
Robert G8RPI.
|
Re: 54615B Agilent Scope Amplitude Low When Measuring 120V AC
A suitable probe is
A simple accidential reversionof line and neutral with a standard probe will result in any or all the following possible outcomes:
Tripped earth fault breaker.
Fried probe cable.
Fried 'scope.
Electrocuted operator
Burnt down property
No matter how careful you are about personal safety, even normal surges and spikes on the mains supply cn be high enough to damage normal probes and your scope.
Note that the "mains rated" probes intended for handheld 'scopes have no advantage on a normal 'scope thay? are intended for 'scopes with fully isolated inputs.
Robert G8RPI.
|
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure
I purchased a YTO from them and worked ok. I recommend to check the rest of instrument prior to change the YTO. This instrument perform a pll lock each sweep. If for any reason it fails a residual fm ?would appears. Its interesting that the instrument uses to pass the confidence test with this failure. I purchased an used 8593A-026 and I had the same problem. Sadly in my case was the YTO, I never known if the failure was on magnetizing coil & circuit or on the oscillator components I sent the instrument to HP Argentina (Agilent) representative for repair , they installed an 8593E YTO with is working up to now. I should have a picture but it happened on 2003 … believe me that its identical. ?
Regards, Patricio.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 6:04 PM Patricio A. Greco via <patricio_greco= [email protected]> wrote: That’s correct this is a como failure on that analyzers. Try to perform adjustments tasks on synthesizers ( samplers … and so) if it don’t fix the problem you will need a new oscillator .?
Thanks Patricio. Given that the problem occurs well before the synthesizers in the signal chain I'm going to go ahead and chalk this one up to a bad YTO. Unfortunate, but at least I didn't pay much for this 8593E.
Does anyone on the list have recommendations for YTO diagnosis and rebuild, especially since it seems Luis Cupido is no longer offering this service? Test-Cal Instruments on eBay purports to be able to rebuild them; does anyone have experience with them?
Thanks, Nick
? Ing. Patricio A. GrecoTaller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159San Miguel (1663)Buenos AiresT:?+5411-4455-2557F:?+5411-4032-0072 ? Hi all,
Hi all,
I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.
The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this: <image.png>
That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.
I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.
I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).
Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current
source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?
Nick
|
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure
Hello Nick,
I've good experiences with testcalinstruments on ebay, also another colleague
in our institute. Both YTOs we've purchased are running without any further
issues - both of them are rebuild units.
Best regards,
Stephan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Montag, 15. November 2021 20:02:30 CET you wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 6:04 PM Patricio A. Greco via groups.io
<patricio_greco@...> wrote:
That’s correct this is a como failure on that analyzers.
Try to perform adjustments tasks on synthesizers ( samplers … and so) if
it don’t fix the problem you will need a new oscillator . Thanks Patricio. Given that the problem occurs well before the synthesizers
in the signal chain I'm going to go ahead and chalk this one up to a bad
YTO. Unfortunate, but at least I didn't pay much for this 8593E.
Does anyone on the list have recommendations for YTO diagnosis and rebuild,
especially since it seems Luis Cupido is no longer offering this service?
Test-Cal Instruments on eBay purports to be able to rebuild them; does
anyone have experience with them?
Thanks,
Nick
Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Taller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349
Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001
Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T: +5411-4455-2557
F: +5411-4032-0072
www.servicios-electronicos.com
On 12 Nov 2021, at 19:39, Nick Foster <bistromath@...> wrote:
?
Hi all,
Hi all,
I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had
the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't
mention it, but *caveat emptor* and all that.
The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
[image: image.png]
That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the
whole trace. It's all FM noise.
I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to
be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen
(measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just
fine
below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a
scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I
think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how
did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The
noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.
I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the
isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the
same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to
drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog
board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm
after the isolator and directional coupler).
Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current source,
is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the
odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power
supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult
to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem
likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the
control board?
Nick
--
Mit freundlichen Grü?en,
Dr.-Ing. Stephan Massner
|
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure
Vladan,
Thanks very much for the input. I've driven the coil with a bench supply in current-limiting mode, but my supply just isn't accurate enough to avoid significant drift and noise in the YTO output. The output amplitude is consistent and strong throughout the frequency range and considerably below.
I guess the next step is breadboarding a quiet ~80mA current source to drive the main coil.
Nick
Nick,
I don't see enough evidence yet to agree that the YTO is defective. You say that the noise comes in bursts and that it's FM noise. This is not typically how a failed YTO behaves. It may be bad, but you need to do further testing.
To test it, use an analog power supply with current limiting so you can drive the coil with a current source. It doesn't have to be unusually clean for you see how well the YTO works. Failures usually manifest as low output power and oscillation drop out at certain frequencies. This particular YTO design topology has some inherent problems near the low frequency end, so that's where I would look first.
Vladan
|
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure
Nick,
I don't see enough evidence yet to agree that the YTO is defective. You say that the noise comes in bursts and that it's FM noise. This is not typically how a failed YTO behaves. It may be bad, but you need to do further testing.
To test it, use an analog power supply with current limiting so you can drive the coil with a current source. It doesn't have to be unusually clean for you see how well the YTO works. Failures usually manifest as low output power and oscillation drop out at certain frequencies. This particular YTO design topology has some inherent problems near the low frequency end, so that's where I would look first.
Vladan
|
Re: Help diagnosing 8593E possible YTO failure
On Fri, Nov 12, 2021 at 6:04 PM Patricio A. Greco via <patricio_greco= [email protected]> wrote: That’s correct this is a como failure on that analyzers. Try to perform adjustments tasks on synthesizers ( samplers … and so) if it don’t fix the problem you will need a new oscillator .?
Thanks Patricio. Given that the problem occurs well before the synthesizers in the signal chain I'm going to go ahead and chalk this one up to a bad YTO. Unfortunate, but at least I didn't pay much for this 8593E.
Does anyone on the list have recommendations for YTO diagnosis and rebuild, especially since it seems Luis Cupido is no longer offering this service? Test-Cal Instruments on eBay purports to be able to rebuild them; does anyone have experience with them?
Thanks, Nick
? Ing. Patricio A. GrecoTaller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159San Miguel (1663)Buenos AiresT:?+5411-4455-2557F:?+5411-4032-0072 ? Hi all,
Hi all,
I'm working on the old 8593E I picked up off eBay a few years back. It had the problem when I got it -- I figure the seller probably knew and didn't mention it, but caveat emptor and all that.
The problem manifests as extreme, sporadic phase noise. Like this:
That's a relatively tame example, and occasionally it will wipe out the whole trace. It's all FM noise.
I spent a while digging around the analog interface board and it seems to be OK. One thing I noticed is that the FM coil drive diagnostic screen (measuring FM+) shows a flat line. That said, the analyzer sweeps just fine below 10MHz spans where the FM coil is active (albeit with noise), and a scope does show some low voltage on that (current-driven) coil line, so I think it's probably OK (given the FM coil R is 1.25 ohms with <150mA, how did the FM coil diag measurement ever hope to show it on the trace?). The noise didn't change when I disconnected the A25 counter/lock assembly.
I disconnected the FM coil drive and ran the YTO's output after the isolator into another spec an, and it shows the YTO exhibiting exactly the same noise. I don't have a current source on hand which is quiet enough to drive the main coil and really rule out the main coil driver on the analog board. The YTO seems to sweep OK across its range with good power (~+12dBm after the isolator and directional coupler).
Before I get too deep in the rabbit hole building a quiet current
source, is this behavior a known symptom of YTO failure on the 859xE? What are the odds this could be noise in the main coil driver or +15/-15/+5 power supplies to the YTO? They seem clean to my scope, but it's very difficult to get good mV/uV-level noise measurements. If it is the YTO, does it seem likely to be the dreaded wirebonded transistor, or the circuitry on the control board?
Nick
|
Re: Replacing missing button cap(s) - HP 339A
On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 05:56 PM, bandrsn wrote:
I think I have an offer for a button - thanks guys...
Cheers,
Bruce A., Santa Barbara
If the offer for a button does not work out, the HP part number for the button is 5041-0117 and the HP description is "Key Cap, Filter switch." It's a long shot but I have had success in the past by searching by part number. Especially if the part is used on multiple HP instruments. Cheers, Tom
|
HP 9100 9100b Calculator actual HP schematics and instrument logic-flow chart
hi, I found the following actual HP 9100b schematics and instrument logic-flow chart to be very helpful in troubleshooting the HP 9100b Calculator. { the actual downloads might take some additional time to load, but are good }. These, along with Tony D's "pencil"? schematics, are good. A number of other HP Calculator, Computer manuals, schematics, etc. are found in the 3rd link { below }. rick
?
?
?
|
Re: 8341A *restoration adventure*
RubenRubio -
Yes it is a bit more difficult, but basic measurements can be easilly made with what you have - just be careful of the power levels.
Based on the diagram you have shown, you need to set the 8341 for 100 MHz output, them measure the power out of the 3.8Gig oscillator, and the power output from the band 0 power amp. You could also check the low band power amp ouput at 1 GHz, but the 200 mHz measurement should be enough for diagnostic purposes.
Output for the high band power amp can be done at 2.3GH, 4.5GHz, and 6,9 GHz - that will give you a good idea as to the YIG+AMP performance.
If you find the 3.8GHz oscillator is working, and no output from the band 0 amp, check the input to the amp, and then the input to the modulator. Straight forward but tedious with only a power meter.
Yes - An an 8566A or B is an excellent choice, They are my favorite spectrum analyzers - and they are repairable - some of the laer units are not as repairable.
Cheers!
Bruce
Quoting RubenRubio <rubenrb2019@...>:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yeah that's for sure
In the service pages of the RF section I hope to find those power figures of the modules, yesterday I was reading some pages about this section and I studied the block diagram, and the lack of output power in amplifiers or oscillator can result in this behavior. Until I can get a spectrum analyzer (hopefully an 8566B, but they are very expensive) I will keep working with what I have. The adjustments ask for an ancient scalar network whatever test set I don't want to buy...
Regards,
Ruben
|
Re: Removing the Adhesive From Hell
Brad, I feel your pain on the dried masking tape adhesive, just be glad they did not use filament?reinforced packing tape as that is 10x worse of a mess to deal with. I have seen where applying a light coat of WD40 to the adhesive and letting it sit for like 15 minutes?can work quite well(it's great for removing price stickers and most permanent marker stains as well)l, then it can be wiped off and cleaned with denatured alcohol.? As always try on a non conspicuous area first.
Matt
Hello--
I'm restoring an older piece of equipment that was festooned with
tan-colored
masking tape. I'm able to scrape away most of the crumbling tape-- but
not its adhesive.
Applying Goo-Gone works but not well (softens the glue) snd it doesn't
remove
do a good job of removing adhesive from one's fingers.
Recommendations are welcome.
Thanks, and 73--
Brad? AA1IP
-- | | Matt Patoray (he,him) | | Lead Video Engineer, Digital Studios | +1 724-421-2560 | |
|
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient and/or you have received this email in error, you must take no action based on the information in this email and you are hereby notified that any dissemination, misuse or copying or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by email and delete the original message.?
|
Re: [TekScopes] Removing the Adhesive From Hell
If the part can withstand the heat, I've found that pouring/soaking in boiling water will help loosen some adhesives. I've used that recently on some residue on metal parts. Goo-Gone is my go-to but sometimes it needs a bit of "help".
Thanks,
Barry - N4BUQ
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Thompson" <brad.thompsonaa1ip@...>
To: "HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment" <[email protected]>
Cc: "tekscopes" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:31:00 AM
Subject: [TekScopes] Removing the Adhesive From Hell Hello--
I'm restoring an older piece of equipment that was festooned with
tan-colored
masking tape. I'm able to scrape away most of the crumbling tape-- but
not its adhesive.
Applying Goo-Gone works but not well (softens the glue) snd it doesn't
remove
do a good job of removing adhesive from one's fingers.
Recommendations are welcome.
Thanks, and 73--
Brad? AA1IP
|
Jeremy Nichols
Patricio A. Greco
Tom Phillips