Re: Need support for HP-3586B and HP-3336B RPGs
Seems like the supply is reversed, if the schematic is to be believed. You got 5V on pin 1 but it¡¯s ¡°supposed¡± to be ground. If the RPG uses light bulbs, and a particularly forgiving output stage, it may still appear to ¡°work¡± with such reversed supply, but I¡¯m not sure I¡¯d trust the schematics blindly. Presumably where the schematics described a PC-board, there was a net list sync done between the schema and layout so the schematics would be trustworthy to an extent. But where wire harnesses are involved, it¡¯s a free-for-all, usually.
Interestingly enough, many European car manufacturers started using some integrated electrical CAD solution in the recent two decades, and they produce wiring diagrams totally consistent with wire harnesses - the diagram and the manufacturing drawings for the harness all come from the same single source of truth. Sure makes life easier when debugging a car - I had cars from the 90s where the wiring diagrams had a few mistakes that by luck affected circuits that often had to be involved in troubleshooting. Meh.
Cheers, Kuba
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13 sep. 2020 kl. 9:26 em skrev Jim Sorenson <kjsorenson@...>:
?Hi Dan,? Thank you very kindly for offer. If I need to take you up on that perhaps you could use boards or parts out my 3586 spares unit in return. In any case if you ever need a part or board, just email me.? Since you have an RPG (sound like some military ordnance) could you possibly take a look at it and? pass on the following info to me.? I would like to confirm the colors of the 4 wires for pins 1 - 4 from your unit there.? What I've found in the doc is:? <Snap 2020-09-13 at 21.08.58.jpg> I show the black wire as pin 1 (5.5 volts) and the ground as pin 5 (red - white). This does not make sense to me.? The RPG of the 3336B is working in both directions but frequency goes up when knob turned to the left and vice versa. When I when I traded sides for RPG 1 and RPG 2, it would not work at all. Something still wrong there.? Next time I WILL take and keep notes.? Thanks
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I guess by SSD cable you mean SATA, I'm surprised, if I remember right, those units where IDE. So???
For the white screen it's most likely an unplugged cable. You can also try to use the VGA output, but I'm not sure if you need to enable it in BIOS first...
It is normal that only channel 1 and 4 lights up. It's not because both of them are working or not. It simply in it's initialization process. Same goes for the 1M and 50 ohm LED, both are only for the initialization, don't worry about that, mine does that too! So don't worry!
That thick line is normal, higher bandwidth mean higher noise, so get use to it! It's closer to the reality too (unless it is out of proportion, then it might be the scope).?
The calibrator output is on the same circuit then the AUX out that generates the calibration pattern. So if it doesn't output anything, it might mean the calibrator is defective. If that is the case, you won't be able to do the self cal and you won't be able to fix the two other channels (you might fix them but you need to calibrate them at least one for them to be usable).?
If the ADC were blown, you wouldn't see a line at all or it would be saturated, so that's good. You notice that when you plug something to them, there is a little bounce. depending on what the bounce looks like it might mean several things:
1- if it's just an impulse, it's either caused by coupled capacitance or by the long ground cable
2- if it's continuous and doesn't change if their is a signal or not, it's probably just detecting the probe as an antenna. In that case, you probably have a blown component, hard to say which one.
3- if it's continuous and change depending on signal, it is probably a bad amplifier. It could also be bad calibration factor. With your possibly defective calibrator, I would bet on that. If the calibration factor got corrupted at some point and the calibrator doesn't work, it could very well be simply that. You say you have other Tektronix scope? Use them to verify the output pattern of the AUX out when calibrating a channel and make sure it works properly.?
Considering your 50 ohm impedance is fine, it is unlikely that anything is blown on your signal path. Maybe, you could do this simple test. Plug 2 (1 functional, 1 defective) channels of your scope together to the FGEN. Output a square wave or a triangular wave. Both channel should be on 1M and same configs. Are they match? Then switch the functional channel to 50 ohm and store the waveform. Switch it back to 1M and display the save waveform. Switch the defective channel to 50 ohm. Does the functional channel and the save waveform match? There should be no amplitude or phase mismatch.
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Re: Need support for HP-3586B and HP-3336B RPGs
Thanks Harvey,?
The wiring seems simple at first examination, however their are differences with regard to the connector layouts in the two machines for the RPG. The pins are not numbered, there are 4 pins and one open space on the 3336 but on the 3586 there are 5 pins. One 1 RPG the connector has a ridge on one side that only fits one way on the 3336, but on the other RPG the connector does not have that ridge and can put inserted either way. One RPG (of the three) is not wired by color that same as the other two. And so it goes. Had I had my previous notes on the original fix and if I had been more methodical regarding carrying out the second fix I would have saved myself a lot of grief. This is how airplanes crash.......
What Ren¨¦e has provided today should result in a huge breakthrough, however. Everything is suddenly clear. In any case, the parts to repair an encoder all appear to be common off the shelf types and currently available at reasonable parts prices from Digi Key, eBay and Mouser.
What could possibly go wrong now, as they say.?
I will add to this thread as I proceed. Perhaps we can save someone down the road for going through encoder Hell.?
Jim
SN7413N "Original" TI 14P DIP TTL IC 2 pcs
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 04:39 PM, Mike Feher wrote:
I do not get it. What is wrong or offensive of the post? The link was to a basic article and a scope. Regards ¨C Mike
?
Hi Mike, The links that I've seen are all to a site reproducing (Tek) publications or ignorant and even dangerous attempts to educate people in the field of our common love, all with lots of embedded ads. LeCroy and TekSopes Groups are also affected. Ignoring means it'll multiply. Earlier this morning (I'm at GMT+2), I informed David Kirkby and got his response so I guess it'll be taken care of. Raymond
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
OK, I see where you are coming from. Initially I thought he was responding to some novice asking a question. That does happen occasionally, and does deserve to be recognized. It was a wrong assumption on my part this time as I saw that it was a totally unsolicited post. If it is a an AI bot, then the poster does need to be deleted as we will not know what may come next. 73 ¨C Mike ? Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ 07731 848-245-9115 ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS ? On 9/14/20 11:01 AM, Mike Feher wrote: > I am not on any other related lists, so, I have not seen his other > posts. One can certainly do basic signal and waveform analysis with a > scope. ? ?? Very true.? It's word-for-word what he posted on a few other lists that I'm on.? The LeCroy list in particular, this morning. ? > I do see that no one inquired about the subject so the random post > seems to be for info only. Being 75 now, there is very little I can > contribute to mostly software related posts. So, I do not get where > you get off calling me a ¡°well known topic Nazi¡±. ? ?? I was just yanking your chain.? You tend to get quite uppity when conversations drift away from HP test equipment here. ? > Being a refugee from > Hungary, I am far from a Nazi or a Communist. ¨C Mike ? ?? Well I certainly didn't mean anything like that Mike, but if you took it that way, I apologize.? I intended no disrespect.? The term "nazi", in lowercase, was used as a (bad) generic term.? Perhaps "topic cop" would've been more appropriate. ? ????????????? -Dave ? -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA ?
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
On 9/14/20 11:01 AM, Mike Feher wrote: I am not on any other related lists, so, I have not seen his other posts. One can certainly do basic signal and waveform analysis with a scope. Very true. It's word-for-word what he posted on a few other lists that I'm on. The LeCroy list in particular, this morning. I do see that no one inquired about the subject so the random post seems to be for info only. Being 75 now, there is very little I can contribute to mostly software related posts. So, I do not get where you get off calling me a ¡°well known topic Nazi¡±. I was just yanking your chain. You tend to get quite uppity when conversations drift away from HP test equipment here. Being a refugee from Hungary, I am far from a Nazi or a Communist. ¨C Mike Well I certainly didn't mean anything like that Mike, but if you took it that way, I apologize. I intended no disrespect. The term "nazi", in lowercase, was used as a (bad) generic term. Perhaps "topic cop" would've been more appropriate. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Need support for HP-3586B and HP-3336B RPGs
Hey Ren¨¦e,
Great find. That answers a lot of questions for me and given the detail of the two schematics one would have a good chance of rebuilding an RPG.? At least it can now be put under test and some diagnostics attempted.?
Thanks so much. I will let you know what I find out.?
Jim
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
Mike,
Not wanting to belabor this thread any more than absolutely
necessary, try doing a search on:
Carl Moon groups.io.
The general consensus of the dozens (hundreds?) of other
groups.io groups that have been visited by Mr. Moon, is he
is an artificial intelligence "bot" that has been sicced on
the groups as an experiment, or as a vehicle for spamming
the groups.
The bot scans the messages on the group, and creates its own
messages based on the words and phrases it finds. I believe
its purpose is to see how good of a job the author can do of
fooling the group into believing Carl Moon is real.
-Chuck Harris
Mike Feher wrote:
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I do not get it. What is wrong or offensive of the post? The link was to a basic
article and a scope. Regards ¨C Mike
?
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell NJ 07731
848-245-9115
?
*From:* [email protected]
<[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Glen Slick
*Sent:* Monday, September 14, 2020 9:48 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
?
This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a
nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now
without further discussion on the list.
?
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 5:00 AM Carl Moon via groups.io <>
<carl.moon@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits.
Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the
design, verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze
the numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
I am not on any other related lists, so, I have not seen his other posts. One can certainly do basic signal and waveform analysis with a scope. I do see that no one inquired about the subject so the random post seems to be for info only. Being 75 now, there is very little I can contribute to mostly software related posts. So, I do not get where you get off calling me a ¡°well known topic Nazi¡±. Being a refugee from Hungary, I am far from a Nazi or a Communist. ¨C Mike ? Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ 07731 848-245-9115 ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 10:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS ? ? ?? He is posting copies of that message to other lists as well.? It is becoming apparent that he is either a spammer trying to get un-moderated, or an AI that will probably become a spammer.? He's on a bunch of different lists talking about barely-relevant things in somewhat strangely-worded ways. ? ?? Also, as a well-known topic nazi, I'm surprised you didn't have a problem with his post. ;) ? ???????????? -Dave ? On 9/14/20 10:39 AM, Mike Feher wrote: > I do not get it. What is wrong or offensive of the post? The link was > to a basic article and a scope. Regards ¨C Mike > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS > > 89 Arnold Blvd. > > Howell NJ 07731 > > 848-245-9115 >
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
Dear Carl
?
Have I missed something hear as what dues
this have to do with HP- Agilent
as this site has exceedingly good engineers
on it and many of the original designers from HP
So pointing them to a sight on the use of
an oscilloscope and detailing wave forms that most us learnt before we went to collage
might be considered as an insult
?
Your comment please but Please stay professional
?
?
As we all
know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits. Whether a
product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the design,
verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the
numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
This
article explains waveform and signal analysis.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
He is posting copies of that message to other lists as well. It is becoming apparent that he is either a spammer trying to get un-moderated, or an AI that will probably become a spammer. He's on a bunch of different lists talking about barely-relevant things in somewhat strangely-worded ways.
Also, as a well-known topic nazi, I'm surprised you didn't have a problem with his post. ;)
-Dave
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On 9/14/20 10:39 AM, Mike Feher wrote: I do not get it. What is wrong or offensive of the post? The link was to a basic article and a scope. Regards ¨C Mike
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell NJ 07731
848-245-9115
*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Glen Slick
*Sent:* Monday, September 14, 2020 9:48 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now without further discussion on the list.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 5:00 AM Carl Moon via groups.io <> <carl.moon@... <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic
circuits. Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes
electronic components, the design, verification, and debugging
process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the numerous electrical
signals that make the product come to life.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
I do not get it. What is wrong or offensive of the post? The link was to a basic article and a scope. Regards ¨C Mike ? Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell NJ 07731 848-245-9115 ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Glen Slick Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 9:48 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS ? This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now without further discussion on the list. ? As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits. Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the design, verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
I second that
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On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 09:47 AM, Glen Slick wrote:
This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now without further discussion on the list.
As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits. Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the design, verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
This article explains waveform and signal analysis.
< spam link deleted? >
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 03:47 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now without further discussion on the list.
A few hours ago, I've sent a message regarding this issue to David Kirkby (Moderator), also referring to poster's behavior on Tekscopes and received a response. No further action necessary I hope. Raymond
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Re: WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
This is the behavior that recently led to calls for this poster to be banned as a nonsense spam poster. A moderator should just go ahead and ban this poster now without further discussion on the list. As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits. Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the design, verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
This article explains waveform and signal analysis.
< spam link deleted? >
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WAVEFORM AND SIGNAL ANALYSIS
As we all know, nearly all consumer products today have electronic circuits. Whether a product is simple or complex, if it includes electronic components, the design, verification, and debugging process requires an oscilloscope to analyze the numerous electrical signals that make the product come to life.?
This article explains waveform and signal analysis.
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Re: HP 89410A / 89441A internal 3 1/2 floppy replacement
Hi atc-HPequipgroup
I'll have to check what the original drives were in the 54624A and 16500C were to see if the pin outs are similar
I had purchased a GoTek floppy replacement in the hope that I could cut it about a bit to re-route some of the signals.?
The main sticking point is that the drive +5V supply is delivered on pins 7,9 and 11 of the ribbon cable.?
The GoTek PCB is double sided with ground plane and through plating.? It returns these pins directly to the ground plane? To isolate pins 7, 9 and 11 I would have to remove the 34 pin header and then cut around the ground plane on both sides.
Alternately, I could isolate the 3 pins in the ribbon cable and route them separately?
Neither of these options seemed tidy to me - hence looking at the possibility of using an alternate floppy drive
The Sony MPF920-E/131 seems to come pretty close to what is needed with pins 5, 7, 9 and 11 on a? separate trace that can either be jumpered to ground (standard configuration) or to +5V
I am going to have a try at getting this drive to hook up - if not then I will either modify a GoTek board or lay out an alternate version of the GoTek with the necessary PSU connections.
Are there any other 89410A / 89441A users on the group that would find an instrument specific version of the GoTek / HxC hardware useful?
Peter
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MY plug in has option 002 which is the 70 db attenuator
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected]< [email protected]> On Behalf Of Don Bitters via groups.io Sent: Monday, 14 September 2020 4:44 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 5392A YIG Also check the 83592A for options. There is a high power option for this series. It is option 01 or 02. Check the manual. I believe the std unit has a max output of +8 dBm, but the output amplitude is band and frequency dependent Check the manual. Don Bitters
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Hi Don,
I checked the yig both into a power meter and a spectrum analyzer
when directly checking the yig output so it should have been terminated in
50 ohms at least for the power meter.
I tried the external levelling with no change and also I have checked the
voltages across the detectors and they are ok
You are correct with regard to the yig frequency range and it does multiply
for the higher ranges and down converts with a fixed osc for band 0 (.01ghz
to 2.4 ghz)
The output frequency is roughly correct as per the setting just that I
cannot control the output power, that is why I first thought I had an A4 agc
problem, definitely not the A4 cards as I have tried 3 in total to no
effect.
Ken Goodhew.
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected]< [email protected]> On Behalf Of Don Bitters via groups.io Sent: Monday, 14 September 2020 4:38 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 5392A YIG The 83592A has an internal XTAL detector for leveling, but also allows for external leveling with either a power meter or external XTAL detector (so you can be leveled at the end of a cable and power splitter). Measuring directly at the output of the YIG is a little tricky and problematic. I would measure it there with a known flat response 6dB attenuator and a power meter. The YIG wants to see a 50 ohm load to give proper output. If I recall correctly the YIG for this unit is a 2-8 GHz fundamental and uses a YIG multiplier to get to the higher frequencies. The rear panel frequency output at 0dB is a coupled fundamental frequency output (2-8GHz). Probably a Krytar directional coupler Do look at the 83592A frequency response adjustment procedure in the manual, after you have at least checked the frequency tune procedure. Don Bitters
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Also check the 83592A for options. There is a high power option for this series. It is option 01 or 02. Check the manual. I believe the std unit has a max output of +8 dBm, but the output amplitude is band and frequency dependent Check the manual.
Don Bitters
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Jim Sorenson
Dave McGuire
Paul Bicknell