Re: WTB: HP 8971B or advice
Reg,
When I worked for HP we used to use the 8970S (8970B, 8971B, 346B/C, and an RF/microwave source - 8340A/B, 8672A, or 83650B) to do NF (noise figure) measurements. The 83631 will definitely do the job. The 8971B is not absolutely required, but makes it a lot easier to do the NF measurement. You simply need to have a mixer to be able to down convert the desired signal to get it in the range of the 8970. Also, the microwave source has to have a lower NF than what you are trying to measure.
Don Bitters
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Re: RMS voltmeter HP 3400A - what does option C61 stand for?
Leo,
I believe options prefixed with "C" meant special order and/or custom. Anyway, according to the 1978 HP annual catalog: "Opt 001 spreads out the dB scale by making it the top scale of the meter. Rear terminals in parallel with front panel terminals and linear log scale uppermost on the meter face are available on special order. (add $30)"
Sean
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On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 06:02 AM, Leo Bodnar wrote:
Somebody asked me what does Option C61 stand for in HP 3400A RMS voltmeter.
I can't remember, but I think it was something immaterial - like certification supplied or on-site service options.
Does anybody know? Please feel free to reply to that question directly if you wish.
Cheers
Leo
|
Some useful HP items on the stuff event page, need an hp 85046A S parameter TS.
We found a lot of useful Hp accessories and stuck them on the annual stuff event page, you can see them here:
also lots of hard to find HP CRTs at the page bottom. if you are looking for other hp items, let me know, happy to add them to the page as we have a lot of things in storage to clear out.
we have several S-parameter test sets and normalizers we can't use, including:
8503A S-Parameter TS
35677B (75 ohm S-parameter TS)
8750A Storage Normalizer (with SA plug in)
8501A Storage Normalizer
we need to get a working 85046A and cables for our 8753A, happy to trade above items for the right widgets.
off-list is maybe best.
all the best,
walter (walter2 -at- sphere.bc.ca)
sphere research corp.
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Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
Hello Stu I use what I can get my hands on. That is often panasonic or nippon. but in fact all NON china will do ok. The reason why I said 220uF is because it is hard to find 180uF at least in my junk box
?.
the caps you shoe is really bad. change them and you have your analyzer back
?
Gl
best regards Peter
Peter, etal
?
Decided they all were suspicious and with great care removed.
Spot the suspect cap for 28.8volt supply?
?
What’s the best manufacturer for Electrolytics, 180/220uF(Know you suggested 220uF) going to order some today from RS components..
?
That was the suspicious odour that came from the analyser I guess..
?
Remove them with great care, including the 12v 470uF cap, decision after seeing the darkened appearance and bulging bottom of the cap.
No vias were removed at the same time just lots of Heat and Flux, braid and they came out easily. (Pictures may look like via’s still attached to legs, but it’s solder!
?
Cheers,
Stu.
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Leo Kroonenburg
Sent: 24 April 2020 07:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
?
Hi,
I used Chipquick to remove a broken ADC from my TDS540B acquisition board and from a donor board.
Worked great.
I added Chipquick to all the joints and heated the whole chip using hot air to remove it.
Afterwards I cleaned the soldering pads using a normal iron and flux.
Putting the donor part back was done using a normal, small flat soldering iron.
Pictures can be found here:
/g/TekScopes/album?id=21745
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Heh, nice. ;) But please remember, Microsoft, and the typical quality of their products, is not representative of the computing world. Far, FAR from it.
-Dave
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On April 26, 2020 1:53:57 PM "Jack Reynolds" <jackandladyreynolds@...> wrote: Back in the day when I was still working for GM many of us took note of
the fact that we were disparaged as "rust belt industries" while the
computer weenies in the silicon valley basked in the Sun and their own
self promotion.? One of my coworkers pointed out that we had been
manufacturing computer systems for years that would faultlessly run a
vehicle for ten years and 100,000 miles. He pointed out that if we were
as great as the weenies our cars would crap out 3 or 4 times a day in
traffic, show a blue screen and tell us to reboot!
Jack Reynolds
On 4/26/2020 9:31 AM, Harvey White wrote:
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to play
games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old the
laptop, and go about your business.
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody at all
times (and then, one day, charge them per use).
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good dependable
car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A car designed by
microsoft would have a living room, recliners, game room, media room,
small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library. It would be so tall it would
fall over periodically, you'd have to stop every 10 miles and then
turn it off, run around the outside, turn it back on, and then you'd
be good for another 10 miles.? Every alternate Tuesday, you'd have the
dealer come find you and bolt on the latest accessory and remove the
ones you've been used to.
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Back in the day when I was still working for GM many of us took
note of the fact that we were disparaged as "rust belt industries"
while the computer weenies in the silicon valley basked in the Sun
and their own self promotion.? One of my coworkers pointed out
that we had been manufacturing computer systems for years that
would faultlessly run a vehicle for ten years and 100,000 miles.?
He pointed out that if we were as great as the weenies our cars
would crap out 3 or 4 times a day in traffic, show a blue screen
and tell us to reboot!
Jack Reynolds
On 4/26/2020 9:31 AM, Harvey White
wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to
play games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old
the laptop, and go about your business.?
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody
at all times (and then, one day, charge them per use).?
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good
dependable car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A
car designed by microsoft would have a living room, recliners,
game room, media room, small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library.?
It would be so tall it would fall over periodically, you'd have
to stop every 10 miles and then turn it off, run around the
outside, turn it back on, and then you'd be good for another 10
miles.? Every alternate Tuesday, you'd have the dealer come find
you and bolt on the latest accessory and remove the ones you've
been used to.
|
Re: HP K21-5321B Digital Clock
Hello, Stephen,
thank you very much for your answer.
I suspect that one or more of the counter chips have a defect. I
will probably not be able to avoid building a test adapter for the
chips. The second board is in my opinion only an optional digital
output for the PC or other devices. I don't think that the two
indicators in the display are controlled there.
Best regards
Philipp?
Am 23.04.2020 um 02:54 schrieb Stephen
Hanselman:
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First the dat hold and the other one(I forget what it’s called)
are actually controlled by the computer. ?At least under TODS and
the 9500D software we use.
I will keep looking for one of our old manuals but it sounds
like there could be an issue in the decade counters. ?As I
remember the 2nd board (not NIXIE board is mostly to do with the
time mark outputs rather than the clock it self. I think
basically you have the NIXIE drivers fed by Latch’s fed by
counters that do the Seconds ?0->9 and 0>5 before kicking
up to the minuets 0->9 and 0>5 etc
Again this is all from memory. I also haven’t been able to
find our old boards I fear they are buried in 800 pounds of gold
scrap.
I’ll keep looking
Regards,
?
Stephen
Hanselman
Datagate
Systems, LLC
?
Hello, Steve,
depending on how I change the ICs the clock seems to run
or not. What I couldn't get away from is that some numbers
are skipped when setting the clock. This is annoying if
you jump from min 58 to 60 then the minutes do not fit
anymore. Much more strange is that the display Data Hold
does not go off when the clock is running and also no
matter if the clock is running and has a plausible time or
not always a time error is displayed. If I remove the J-K
flip-flop on the PCB these two indicators are off. The
device seems to be intact but I had exchanged it for an
identical one. I would exchange the other devices if HP
had not used Inverse Logic devices for the counters. Or is
there a cheap replacement for 1820-0119 and 1820-0116?
I would hate to build my own replacement for that...
Due to the inverse logic and the speed, the devices cannot
be tested on my current IC Tester... I suppose that the
tester can check HC and LS devices, so it has something to
do with speed? Or what is the reason that SN74xx devices
can not be tested with most IC testers that are available
at eBay.
Many greetings from Germany
Philipp
Am 21.04.2020 um 18:43 schrieb
Stephen Hanselman:
Philipp,
?
What is the clock doing/not doing.?
I went looking for our manuals and it seems they did
not survive the purge.
?
One thing to do as a preventative
measure is to look at the row of chips next to the
NIXIE tubes.? In between them (I think I’ve got the
position right) are resistors.? These are the current
limit resistors for the NIXIEs and they get hot enough
to burn the board.? We always replace them, installing
about a 0.25 in above the PCA.?
?
The circuit for this part is very
similar to the display section of the 5327B.?
?
We built a replacement clock that
actually remembers who it is when the power is cycled
so all of the old stuff got packed.
?
I’ll talk to my partner but I can’t
find the spare boards of manuals we used to have
?
Steve
?
?
Hello,
maybe anybody has a service Manual für the K21-5321B
Digital Clock.
My clock dosent work the right way. I already tryed
swaping ICs but i think that more than one is
faulty...
Best regards from Germany
Philipp Gr?mer
|
Re: RMS voltmeter HP 3400A - what does option C61 stand for?
An HP-3400A with Option C61 (not mine) is currently listed on eBay; that’s probably the source of the question.?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 6:02 AM Leo Bodnar < leo@...> wrote: Somebody asked me what does Option C61 stand for in HP 3400A RMS voltmeter.
I can't remember, but I think it was something immaterial - like certification supplied or on-site service options.
Does anybody know? Please feel free to reply to that question directly if you wish.
Cheers
Leo
|
Re: Test Equipment For Sale
? ?DAM:? Moms Against Dyslexia.
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
see below....
On 4/26/2020 4:08 AM, Anders wrote:
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
Because there are people who use their computers/laptops to play
games, and it's easy to pull that up, give the six year old the
laptop, and go about your business.?
MIcrosoft's philosophy is to try to be everything to everybody at
all times (and then, one day, charge them per use).?
What you're looking for, driving down the road, is a good
dependable car that does what you want and not a lot more.? A car
designed by microsoft would have a living room, recliners, game
room, media room, small kitchen, 2 baths, and a library.? It would
be so tall it would fall over periodically, you'd have to stop
every 10 miles and then turn it off, run around the outside, turn
it back on, and then you'd be good for another 10 miles.? Every
alternate Tuesday, you'd have the dealer come find you and bolt on
the latest accessory and remove the ones you've been used to.
As for OOP, well
correctly done, it leads to less code duplication and code that is
easier to maintain.
Agreed.? I prefer C++ in embedded systems.
Then there is that diffecence between computers and small
processors. I once worked with someone that used .Net on an
embedded system. Most of the problems he had was because of .Net.
Had I designed the system then it would have been on a small
16-bit pic and "C". Using the PIC hardware and not some stupid
software UARTs....
|
RMS voltmeter HP 3400A - what does option C61 stand for?
Somebody asked me what does Option C61 stand for in HP 3400A RMS voltmeter.
I can't remember, but I think it was something immaterial - like certification supplied or on-site service options.
Does anybody know? Please feel free to reply to that question directly if you wish.
Cheers
Leo
|
Of course, duh. Being in an R/D lab in my hardware days, we didn't have to have many things NIST-traceable, but we did send instruments that couldn't be quickly calibrated against house stds out for cal, cheaper than spending the time and digging up the cal equipment. My home lab has a traceable voltage std (2 Datron 4910's) that I actually send to Fluke occasionally for calibration. Why? Well, because. :) It's great that the advent of GPS now gives everyone access to high-precision frequency references.
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Hello,
to take this on an even stranger tangent.
I have a bit of a love and hate relationship with Rohde and
Germangovernment Spy. Almost bought a RTE scope off the booth two
years ago, but the sales clerk was fair enough to warn me of the
scope often feeling lonely at night in conservative lands like
Hungary/Persia/Syria, and wanting to call its liberal Mommy...the
one with the octothorpe, if you know what I mean.
Either way, I often hang out at their booth and chat about the
instruments, also as I need to report fairly on them on both
Instagram and for my other clients. Last year, we got into the
digital trigger and its benefits - and I was bluntly told that "we
mainly did it because we got fed up with all the shit patents on
trigger bullshit". (sic).
Tam
With best regards
Tam HANNA
Enjoy electronics? Join 15k7 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at
On 2020. 04. 26. 1:46, Stephen
Hanselman wrote:
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Bill,
I agree with soooo much of what you said, thank you.?
As to scopes it was my understanding Tek had a patent on
their circuit and didn’t license it. ?We had tek scope in the EM
shop at Opto div. ?
Regards,
?
Stephen
Hanselman
Datagate
Systems, LLC
?This topic has sure mutated. Can't let it die
now, I'll jump in with a bunch of random babbling, some I've
done before, but hey, can't remember which topics. Senility,
I suppose.
I posted a few days ago how horrible Win-based equipment
was. Just what was anyone thinking? Maybe HP did get paid
off my MS. XP was pretty atrocious, massively buggy,
security issues all over the place. Both HP and Tek did good
embedded sw, then went lame. OTOH, could be part of that
move to outsource development, driven by clueless
bean-counters. I transitioned from all HW to mostly all SW
over my career, always fighting the 'we can hire 5 3rd-world
devs for what we pay you'. Ok, do that, hmm, nothing works.
So, still pay a real dev plus those 5 useless hacks.
Bean-counters apparently can't figure out that they're
paying 2x one good dev for 0.9 total output, since all the
code has to be dealt with (rewritten) by the good dev.
Next rant, sw bloat. I ended up doing a lot of sw for
telecom, massive servers, all in Java. Talk about bloated
code, gigs of open-source libs, some dragged in just to get
one trivial method. And, modern pseudo-devs have no
understanding of hardware at all, and just as little
understanding of basic sw algorithms, Just blindly use
whatever they stumble across, then wonder why we needed a
server farm to run what should have been possible on one
machine.
Moving on, those DS 'top-hat' pseudo-nvrams. Who ever
thought those were a good idea? 10 yrs, dead. I'm suspecting
bean-counters again, make sure to obsolete the equipment.
There's a guy selling ferromagnetic rams to replace said DS
horrors for Tek scopes. Time to start doing the same for our
HP stuff. And yes, my latest acquisition, 53310A, appears to
have one of those damn things in it.
Have I run out? Of course not.
On to C vs C++. I really never liked C++, and don't get me
started on C#. My definition of C++, a pseudo-OO variant
done by someone that really didn't understand C. Stroustrup
is on my hate-list. I've written hundreds of thousands of
lines of C, and still my favorite lang for embedded tiny
stuff. I started with IBM 360 assembler (BALR sound
familiar, waiting for responses to that), then Fortran, then
PDP-8, PDP-11, Multics, Unix, Linux. Used Unix at Bell Labs
early on. It is truly amazing how it has evolved.
Hmm, any more? Oh, wait, of course.....
Cheap instruments from China. All based on various US
highly-integrated chips. Some of the stuff is useful. most
is just junk. Amazing 'specs' in the ads. Any real test
data? Of course not. Get some of them, Ok, yes, they do the
basic operations, but, example, cheap signal generators,
horrible purity and stability. About as much out-of-peak
energy as is in the fundamental.
Finally, modern instruments of any kind.
What happened to the great engineering we used to have? Now
it's all about design-to-cost. Selling points seem to be
'internet connected'. I'll stack my $300 5370 time-interval
analyzer up against anything you can get today. GUI? Nope.
Internet? Nope. Amazing? Yes. Same for my 54542, and still
amazing even today, given what one costs vs new junk. BTW,
friend of mine from college worked at HP instrument
division, he's told me many a sad tale about the decline of
HP. Blames one person, Carly.
In closing, maybe I can start another flame war. My 54542 is
the first HP scope I'd ever considered.Everything else I now
have in my home lab is HP, but Tek? scopes really dominated.
I love my Tek 2465A, one of the last great analog scopes. My
HP friend said they got tired of everyone complaining about
the lame triggering performance of HP scopes, decided to do
a 'Tek killer', and succeeded. True? Don't know. I do know
that one of the early Tek digital scopes that I had used
this what seems to me to be a total hack, linear CCD to
capture the analog, then read it out slowly enough for the
lame A/D to handle. And, I do know I just love my 54542.
Well, until the already-fading CRT dies. At least it doesn't
run Win. :)
Hope I've amused you,
Bill
Oh, and I want to put a plug in for some of the classic Brit
engineering. My 2 Datron 4910 voltage refs used to be
national-standard level. My Solartron 7081 8.5 digit meters
rock (although it is sloooow at 8.5, and really isn't quite
as good as a 3458A, but at a fraction of the price if you
can find one. BTW, it didn't use the LTZ ref both the 3458
and my Datron 4910's used. It had a 'zero-temp-factor'
Zener, selected, and then compensated more by a temp
measurement, trimmed per-Zener to get the best zero TC. Love
it.
|
Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
On 26/04/20 10:05, stur_mm via
groups.io wrote:
What’s
the best manufacturer for Electrolytics, 180/220uF(Know you
suggested 220uF) going to order some today from RS
components..
I tend to use Nichicon, Panasonic, Rubycon.
Beyond getting something that is mechanically OK, look for
- temperature rating of 105C, the? lifetime,
- ripple current,
- frequency at which the ripple current is measured (gives hints
as to whether it is a "mains or SMPS" capacitor)
- ESR (usually physically larger is lower ESR)
- and availability!
For capacitance, usually larger is better, but be cautious of
uncontrolled inrush currents. Many modern capacitors have tighter
capacitance limits than the original capacitors.
For voltage, higher is better - except that if you go too high then
there can be too little leakage current to form the dielectric.
(ISTR the Farnell search mechanism used to be better than RS's, but
that seems to have changed. Caution: I'm prejudiced against Avnet, I
must admit!)
|
Re: HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333
Peter, etal ? Decided they all were suspicious and with great care removed. Spot the suspect cap for 28.8volt supply? ? What’s the best manufacturer for Electrolytics, 180/220uF(Know you suggested 220uF) going to order some today from RS components.. ? That was the suspicious odour that came from the analyser I guess.. ? Remove them with great care, including the 12v 470uF cap, decision after seeing the darkened appearance and bulging bottom of the cap. No vias were removed at the same time just lots of Heat and Flux, braid and they came out easily. (Pictures may look like via’s still attached to legs, but it’s solder! ? Cheers, Stu. ? 
? ? ? ? ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Leo Kroonenburg
Sent: 24 April 2020 07:03
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8562A Errors 304,335,317,333? Hi,
I used Chipquick to remove a broken ADC from my TDS540B acquisition board and from a donor board.
Worked great.
I added Chipquick to all the joints and heated the whole chip using hot air to remove it.
Afterwards I cleaned the soldering pads using a normal iron and flux.
Putting the donor part back was done using a normal, small flat soldering iron.
Pictures can be found here:
/g/TekScopes/album?id=21745
|
Re: Decline, was Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] new File called App notes
Case in point: Windows 10 comes with Candy Crush.. Why?
As for OOP, well correctly done, it leads to less code duplication and code that is easier to maintain.
Then there is that diffecence between computers and small processors. I once worked with someone that used .Net on an embedded system. Most of the problems he had was because of .Net. Had I designed the system then it would have been on a small 16-bit pic and "C". Using the PIC hardware and not some stupid software UARTs....
|
|
|
My job at Raytheon Technologies, too.? We have all lab equipment and even ESD-safe workstations calibrated periodically by Keysight.? I have to wonder if they do as good a job on the Tektronix instruments, though! ;)
Jim Ford?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
toggle quoted message
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-------- Original message -------- Date: 4/25/20 10:26 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 53310A debugging
Yeah, I was going to say this. Requirements to have all the equipment with an up-to-date cal done by someone who theoretically knows what they are doing, are pretty common. At my job, depending on what you are doing, this may be required to be NIST traceable too. So in the case of the 53310A, it's no more complicated than connecting a NIST traceable 5V source and letting the self cal routines run, but it's still going to be required. Sean On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:03 PM, freshndaire wrote:
Some companies have ISO or other certifications that require all test equipment (there are some exceptions if marked Not Subject To Periodic Calibration or similar) be periodically calibrated by a certified test/cal facility.? I once got some of my personal HP equipment calibrated for free because I had brought it into the R&D Lab where I worked.? They didn't have all the gear I needed for a project so I brought in what I needed from home.? During the product's development they started work on getting an ISO certification that required all equipment in the lab and production areas to have current calibration stickers.? They calibrated my gear knowing it was going back home with me at some point, a sweet deal!
Clay Scott
|
Yeah, I was going to say this. Requirements to have all the equipment with an up-to-date cal done by someone who theoretically knows what they are doing, are pretty common. At my job, depending on what you are doing, this may be required to be NIST traceable too. So in the case of the 53310A, it's no more complicated than connecting a NIST traceable 5V source and letting the self cal routines run, but it's still going to be required.
Sean
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 10:03 PM, freshndaire wrote:
Some companies have ISO or other certifications that require all test equipment (there are some exceptions if marked Not Subject To Periodic Calibration or similar) be periodically calibrated by a certified test/cal facility.? I once got some of my personal HP equipment calibrated for free because I had brought it into the R&D Lab where I worked.? They didn't have all the gear I needed for a project so I brought in what I needed from home.? During the product's development they started work on getting an ISO certification that required all equipment in the lab and production areas to have current calibration stickers.? They calibrated my gear knowing it was going back home with me at some point, a sweet deal!
Clay Scott
|
Some companies have ISO or other certifications that require all test equipment (there are some exceptions if marked Not Subject To Periodic Calibration or similar) be periodically calibrated by a certified test/cal facility.? I once got some of my personal HP equipment calibrated for free because I had brought it into the R&D Lab where I worked.? They didn't have all the gear I needed for a project so I brought in what I needed from home.? During the product's development they started work on getting an ISO certification that required all equipment in the lab and production areas to have current calibration stickers.? They calibrated my gear knowing it was going back home with me at some point, a sweet deal!
Clay Scott
|
Dave McGuire
Jeremy Nichols
Anders