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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

Greg et all

I think actually it is more complicated than just competition...certainly ArtekManuals and a few others are were part of that . Of 5 major manual scanners from 8 years ago only two of us are still around as well. Not competition but rather a shrinking market

AS I recall the lease on Manuals Plus's? building was up and the new lease was significant enough increase that the margins no longer looked as favorable. They offered me the entire inventory for pennies at the time but it looked like 5-7 semi-truck loads just to move it to Florida and then I would also have had to take on the cost of storage leasing. Just did not make good business sense.

The other factor is that for the last 3-5 years what was one time a steadily growing business had finally begun to feel the pinch of time based obsolescence. The product base that service manuals served was rapidly approaching "antique status" . Most products manufactured Starting in the 1990's no longer offered service manuals with schematics ( PLEASE let us not hi-jack this thread on that subject) . The other problem is that the customer base itself was reaching "antique status". The warranty on several? good customers has run out and several of my "regulars" from 5 years ago have gone to the great recycling bin themselves.

IN the 20 years that we have been scanning manuals we always had year over year growth in sales. Then starting 3 years ago we had a flat year and then the last two years of slowly declining sales. In addition to Manuals Plus, Your Manual Source also gave up and a couple of other lesser players packed it in as well.

As the poet of my youth (Bob Dylan) sang "The times they are a changing". When I started out scanning manuals 20 years ago I knew this day would eventually come and in fact it has lasted a bit longer that I thought it would.

For those who might wonder by the way, when it comes my turn to be recycled,? we have made arrangements for our scanned manual data base to be donated to a popular free download site. I however expect to outlive most if not all of you. I buried my father last year at age 98, and for four generations that I knew we have all known at least one or more of our great grandparents. My father would tell you however that living forever was not all it was cracked up to be and that he personally had lived? long enough to regret it.

Dave
ArtekManuals

On 2/24/2020 11:48 AM, Greg Muir via Groups.Io wrote:
Another FYI -

Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.

I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.

Greg
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, Ovidiu Popa [Business] wrote:

Done uploading the firmware v3.02 ko4bb.com web site. It may take a few
days until it will be up for grabs.

Sorry, A1 has actually 8 EPROMS (6x 27C020 + 2x 27C010) and A2 2x 27C010,
all uploaded in a zip file.
OK, Basic support requires not just additional EPROMs but also new RAM
chips. The latter is easy, it is those Basic ROMs that are difficult to
find.

I don't remember what firmware my 2 8751As have (it is different between
them, one is newer than other) but it is definitely more recent than 3.02.

It might be that newer firmware won't work for older instrument as there was
a hardware change at some point -- newer instruments have different boards
with one board less than older ones. I have newer ones that my service
manual with CLIP doesn't match completely -- it is an older one for older
instruments. However it describes adding all options in details and there is
a special chapter there for Opt.02. I will try to get it work with my
instruments that have newer firmware and let you know if it worked. I don't
think that Basic version is firmware version dependent and don't remember
that FW version was mentioned in that Opt.02 retrofit chapter but I might be
wrong.

I'll check the electrolytics on the receiver board ASAP. As far as I have
seen, other boards are chock full of wet tantalum caps, these barely ever
fail, it would cost a fortune to replace :)
Oh, those wet tantalums _DO_ fail and their failure is even more damaging
than aluminum electrolytics failure as they are filled with sulfuric acid.
Wet tantalums are prone to failures if they kept under voltage (i.e. the
instrument is powered on) for some [rather long] time -- sulfuric acid
etches through their silver case and spills around. I replaced a lot of
those in Tektronix 492bp/494ap SAs and in 8350 plugins. There was one big
wet tantalum in one of plugins that managed to etch a big hole in the
motherboard all the way through it...

I have never seen a failed SMD tantalum yet but those wet ones and old
dipped thruhole tantalums do fail a lot.

Back to the 8751A receivers -- they have an NPC digital filter chip on them
surrounded by multiple aluminum electrolytics. It is those ones around that
filter that fail -- I had them failed on _ALL_ 6 receiver boards in my 2
8751As...

---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I believe that the Internet Archive or Way Back Machine may have bought them?

?

David

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg Muir via Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 16:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

?

Another FYI -

Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.

I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.

Greg

Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:48 AM Greg Muir via Groups.Io
<big_sky_explorer@...> wrote:

Another FYI -

Manuals Plus died the end of 2015. They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources. When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar. It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go. They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.

I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
A person named Jason Scott took most of the remaining Manuals Plus
stock and put it into storage. Here is one of many articles about the
"rescue":

Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

Another FYI -

Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.

I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.

Greg
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

Done uploading the firmware v3.02 ko4bb.com web site. It may take a few days until it will be up for grabs.

Sorry, A1 has actually 8 EPROMS (6x 27C020 + 2x 27C010) and A2 2x 27C010, all uploaded in a zip file.

I'll check the electrolytics on the receiver board ASAP. As far as I have seen, other boards are chock full of wet tantalum caps, these barely ever fail, it would cost a fortune to replace :)
Re: Very OT: RF Dummy Load Identification

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Nigel,

?

I know the acorn ones, they were used in our TF144H series signal generators ¨C I replaced many of those, back in the day.

Happy to have helped.

?

Actually, without research, I don¡¯t know which product used this type.

?

Sorry this is OT for Agilent/HP guru¡¯s ¨C just keeping the thread intact.

regards

?

Nigel Adams ¨C Marconi Instruments Heritage Collection

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of NigelP
Sent: 24 February 2020 14:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Very OT: RF Dummy Load Identification

?

These thermocouples in the picture are from the O&S so-called ¡°standard range¡± whereas the ones in my dummy loads are of the style (Miniature) UHF Acorn (or flying saucer) without long flying leads at one end but spaced around an annular ring in the centre of the thermocouple glass. This style generally has a better high frequency capability up to 1GHz; the frequency limit for the standard range is not specified in the O&S catalogue that I have.

?

Anyway thanks for your interest.

?

Regards

?

Nigel G8AYM

?

?

?
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

Sergey, I'll upload the firmware in the 6 (A1) + 2 (A2) EPROMS today, on ko4bb, I have already dumped them. Unfortunately the firmware is only 3.02 That's another issue I was running into, I tried 5.02 and 5.04 firmware (without Basic) and the analyzer is not working properly; while the basic functionality is still there, the self test reports a problem with A2 (with 100% confidence) and when switching to 801 points, the last 100 points or so are garbled, looks like a RAM overlapping. I should probably pull the RAM chips from the sockets, but then I prefer t have 3.02 with Basic rather than 5.04 without.
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

Dave, that's the first thing I did. Cable checked ok.
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

That's one of the inconsistencies in that message (confusing floppy model). Otherwise, I normally like to understand what I am doing before engaging, and that message doesn't help. It is unclear to me what wiring (and signals) need to be remapped.
Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

Hi Joe,

Excellent, I really appreciate your action on this. Thank you!

Regards,

Szabolcs

Joe / KN5U <joecline5747@...> ezt ¨ªrta (id?pont: 2020. febr.
24., H, 14:05):


Hi Szabolcs,

I have the manual you seek, but I exceeded the size limit on this group while trying to upload the 05335-90044 manual, so I posted it on the KO4BB site. It may take a few days to hit the public directory, But I think you can use the FTP site to locate it now. If you need it quickly, Didier has been quite responsive in the past.

Best regards,

Joe, KN5U
Re: Very OT: RF Dummy Load Identification

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

These thermocouples in the picture are from the O&S so-called ¡°standard range¡± whereas the ones in my dummy loads are of the style (Miniature) UHF Acorn (or flying saucer) without long flying leads at one end but spaced around an annular ring in the centre of the thermocouple glass. This style generally has a better high frequency capability up to 1GHz; the frequency limit for the standard range is not specified in the O&S catalogue that I have.
?
Anyway thanks for your interest.
?
Regards
?
Nigel G8AYM
?
?
?

Re: hp 83592A problem further update

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi my mistake? for Yig read cavity oscillator

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jfphp via Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 14:15
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further update

?

There is no second yig in the band 0 but a cavity oscillator.

On Monday, February 24, 2020, 02:49:21 PM GMT+1, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

?

?

Hi

When using the hp 83592A above 2 Ghz you don¡¯t have a problem

But below 2 Ghz you have the problem but in this mode 2 yigs are used
But you are doing your testing on the mixed output

The problem could be with the second yig used for the lower frequency only

You need to start making measurements on the yig output frequencies and a
suggest you increase the input attenuation by 10 Db so that all measurements
are made at -10 dBM

Regards Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via
Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 13:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further
update

You've still got a major signal above the reference level, you need to
dial in some front end attenuation to protect your mixer..

In general, the highest signal present* at the input, should not be
above the reference level...? (* Including signals outside the sweep range.)

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open
source software:







-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Re: hp 83592A problem further update

 

Correct!
Re: hp 83592A problem further update

 

In this topic you are mixing 2 problems .
1. In the band 0 there is a lot of unwanted signals . harmonics qnd vqrious unwanted mixing signqls (in the Wiltron 66XXX and 67XXX the OL ism;uch higher in frequency than the HP plug ins . less unwanted products)
2. If you sweep band 0 into a SA you will see a lot of signals, different during each sweep because the 2 sweeps are not in synchronization (exactly the same in band 1 where there is no multiplication and almost no harmonics).
On Monday, February 24, 2020, 02:49:21 PM GMT+1, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:


Hi

When using the hp 83592A above 2 Ghz you don¡¯t have a problem

But below 2 Ghz you have the problem but in this mode 2 yigs are used
But you are doing your testing on the mixed output

The problem could be with the second yig used for the lower frequency only

You need to start making measurements on the yig output frequencies and a
suggest you increase the input attenuation by 10 Db so that all measurements
are made at -10 dBM

Regards Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via
Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 13:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further
update

You've still got a major signal above the reference level, you need to
dial in some front end attenuation to protect your mixer..

In general, the highest signal present* at the input, should not be
above the reference level...? (* Including signals outside the sweep range.)

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open
source software:







-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Re: hp 83592A problem further update

 

There is no second yig in the band 0 but a cavity oscillator.
On Monday, February 24, 2020, 02:49:21 PM GMT+1, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:


Hi

When using the hp 83592A above 2 Ghz you don¡¯t have a problem

But below 2 Ghz you have the problem but in this mode 2 yigs are used
But you are doing your testing on the mixed output

The problem could be with the second yig used for the lower frequency only

You need to start making measurements on the yig output frequencies and a
suggest you increase the input attenuation by 10 Db so that all measurements
are made at -10 dBM

Regards Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via
Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 13:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further
update

You've still got a major signal above the reference level, you need to
dial in some front end attenuation to protect your mixer..

In general, the highest signal present* at the input, should not be
above the reference level...? (* Including signals outside the sweep range.)

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open
source software:







-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Re: hp 83592A problem further update

 

Hi

When using the hp 83592A above 2 Ghz you don¡¯t have a problem

But below 2 Ghz you have the problem but in this mode 2 yigs are used
But you are doing your testing on the mixed output

The problem could be with the second yig used for the lower frequency only

You need to start making measurements on the yig output frequencies and a
suggest you increase the input attenuation by 10 Db so that all measurements
are made at -10 dBM

Regards Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave_G0WBX via
Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 13:01
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] hp 83592A problem further
update

You've still got a major signal above the reference level, you need to
dial in some front end attenuation to protect your mixer..

In general, the highest signal present* at the input, should not be
above the reference level...? (* Including signals outside the sweep range.)

73.

Dave G0WBX.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open
source software:







-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Re: 8720D firmware update

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thank you V,
That is a lot of information.?
Much appreciated?
Dave


On Feb 23, 2020, at 10:56 PM, pianovt via Groups.Io <pianovt@...> wrote:

?I meant to say that upgrading to V7.XX is probably not worth the money. You can download measured S-parameter data and make nice screen shot plots using John's utility. It actually works better than the way they implemented it in the firmware. Some of the bug fixes are good to have, but since you have option 010, the new bug I mentioned could be a problem for you. It is for me, my analyzers have opt. 010.

Now, it may be worth updating from 6.10 to 6.14. It depends on when that opt. 010 bug was introduced and I just can't remember if that came with the new CPU board (V7.XX firmware) or earlier. If you can find the ROM images and some UV PROMs to burn, you could try upgrading to V6.14 at minimal cost. If there is a problem, you can always go back to 6.10.

There is one more thing you should research if you decide to upgrade to V6.14. When they introduced V6.12 for the 8753, a hardware change was required for older 8753D analyzers. It is possible, but I don't know, that a similar problem affected the 8719/20/22D at the time of the ugrade to V6.12. The hardware change was just an electrolytic capacitor in the power supply, but getting to it was a bit of work. Anyway, I don't know if this affects any of the 8720Ds, or your analyzer. The problem was described in service note no. 8753D-02.

I will look for some notes about new features and bug fixes going from 6.10 to 6.14. They were somewhere on the web.

Vladan

Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)

 

Hi Szabolcs,

I have the manual you seek, but I exceeded the size limit on this group while trying to upload the 05335-90044 manual, so I posted it on the KO4BB site. It may take a few days to hit the public directory, But I think you can use the FTP site to locate it now. If you need it quickly, Didier has been quite responsive in the past.

Best regards,

Joe, KN5U
Re: 8751A floppy drive

 

I'd start with checking the integrity of the data cable between floppy
drive and motherboard.

If it's one of the infamous IDC connector'd ribbon types, remake the
ends or replace it.

The LIF / DOS format option is a menu item choice, from memory.

Regards.

Dave G0WBX


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