On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, Ovidiu Popa [Business] wrote: Wow, you have the 8751A Service Manual, I suppose with CLIP. That's rarer
than hen's teeth, I've never seen one!
Could you please check if there's any information in the CLIP on the
original Sony MP-F17W-H1 floppy drive pinout, or at least the A1 floppy
connector pinout? I could probably figure out a replacement knowing which
signal is which in the original schematic... I will scan the schematic page with the floppy drive when I got home and send it to you. Please remember that the manual I have is for OLDER instruments (that you might have) with one additional board but the floppy drive should be the same. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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Re: 8720D firmware update
Dave, one more thing. That option 010 is software enabled, which means that there is an unlock code that was used to enable it. You should back that code up by copying it or taking a picture of it. The code is on a small label, somewhere inside the instrument. The location has changed over the years. I have seen it near the display, on the display, and near the processor board. The label is small, maybe 6 x 25 mm and has a bunch of alphanumeric characters. I have seen some with 11 or 12 characters, not sure any more.
You should do this before you start playing with the procesor board. If something goes very wrong, you may have to resurrect the instrument and this code will be required to restore option 010. It's not the end of the world if you don't have the code, one of the list memberss here knows how to regenerate it, if needed. Just as important, you should back up the EEPROM. This is where all the correction constants reside. The procedure is in the manual.
Vladan
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Wow, you have the 8751A Service Manual, I suppose with CLIP. That's rarer than hen's teeth, I've never seen one!
Could you please check if there's any information in the CLIP on the original Sony MP-F17W-H1 floppy drive pinout, or at least the A1 floppy connector pinout? I could probably figure out a replacement knowing which signal is which in the original schematic...
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HP5343a microwave frequency counter issue
I recently purchased an HP 5343a microwave frequency counter when I connected it to my HP8656b ( set to 990 megahertz) 1v output. HP 53438 is reading 100 kilohertz low but it very slowly increases the count after being on for 48 hours the counting creased 5 kilohertz. The calibrations for this thing is very complicated. I do have a manual I do not know if it's 1 adjustment? or a service issue or both?? Looking for advice and how to get this thing working stable.
Jerry
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HP5334B Front Panel Parts Needed
I have an HP 5334B w/ Opt 10 Universal Counter that I am trying to finish up to support STEM activities at a local high school and am looking for someone that may have a scrap unit that can be cannibalized.? I need the front window and the retainer that holds the window in place.? I could also use a Button Cap (any button cap) like used for the power switch.? Apparently when unit was in storage, something hit the front panel, and bezel and power button got knocked off.? I don't want to spend a ton on this as the unit is fully functional as-is and calibrated.? If anyone has these parts to sell at a worthwhile price, I'd be pleased to purchase.? Thanks !  --
Bill Ripley, KY5Q
Embedded Systems Consultant, ARRL Instructor, STEM School Volunteer
Mobile: (505) 980-8353 | SkypeIn: +1-505-715-6677 | Skype: wcripley
Email: KY5Q@... | Alt Email: Bill.Ripley@...
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, Ovidiu Popa [Business] wrote: Sergey, I wish it were that easy...
The BASIC option appears to require a total of 10 chips (4x 27C020
firmware with BASIC support, 2x 27C020 BASIC, 2x 27C010 BASIC(?), 2x RAM)?
on the A1 board, plus 2x 27C010 chips on the A2 board (allegedly these are
not BASIC option dependent, but I don't know). Let me get back home from work to look into that Opt.02 retrofit chapter in a printed manual. I remember a bunch of ROMs and 2 RAM chips but it's been quite a while since I've last looked at that chapter... I think it is fair to say that wet tantalum caps have a much lower failure
rate than electrolytics and dipped tantalum caps. I don't recall replacing
any wet tantalum caps, but I recall replacing close to 200 dipped tantalum
caps in a Wiltron synthesizer that I got for almost free (it was smoking
through the fan when powered up). Short of technological advancements in
reliability, I don't think the newer SMD tantalum caps are essentially
more reliable than the old dipped models. Wet tantalums do fail and it is not all that rare. They massively failed in e.g. Tektronix 7000 series plugins and I've seen a lot of failed ones myself. As of SMD [or other dry type] tantalums -- they are very reliable when used properly. It is those early dipped tantalums that were very unreliable before technology advanced enough to make them reliable. In other words it is not that new tantalums are so good, it is old ones that were very bad. There were no breakthroughs, just technology stabilized. Remember when multi-layer boards just appeared? I clearly remember those days when 99% of all failures were caused by lost contacts in multilayer PCB vias. They were dying constantly when they just appeared. But then technology settled up and it is quite rare to see such a failure today. --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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Sergey, I wish it were that easy...
The BASIC option appears to require a total of 10 chips (4x 27C020 firmware with BASIC support, 2x 27C020 BASIC, 2x 27C010 BASIC(?), 2x RAM)? on the A1 board, plus 2x 27C010 chips on the A2 board (allegedly these are not BASIC option dependent, but I don't know).
I think it is fair to say that wet tantalum caps have a much lower failure rate than electrolytics and dipped tantalum caps. I don't recall replacing any wet tantalum caps, but I recall replacing close to 200 dipped tantalum caps in a Wiltron synthesizer that I got for almost free (it was smoking through the fan when powered up). Short of technological advancements in reliability, I don't think the newer SMD tantalum caps are essentially more reliable than the old dipped models.
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
Dave,
?
I think you touched on some good aspects of old manual issue.? I was in frequent conversation with Becky at Manuals Plus during 2015 and she did commiserate over the underpinnings of their eventual demise.? It became more uncertain as time went on as to if they were going to find a new home or not.? This, factored with the slow decrease in sales was making it apparent what was going to happen.? It was at that time I tapped her for numerous manual purchases and she was willing to cooperate with good discounts.
?
As for the age issue I think we all are keenly aware that there are many of us who either are nearing our own obsolescent time in life (me included) or have already dropped off the edge of the earth who really appreciate the older technology and still find it very useful in our work and/or hobbies.? Time will come when this will all but disappear thanks to the newer ¡°plug n¡¯ play¡± generations who will never have the opportunity to open the lid on a piece of equipment nor find any available technical documents supporting same thanks to high integration techniques or manufacturers who desire to reap the after-sale cash from factory repairs.
?
I do rely on your manuals from time to time but honestly have to say that when working on a piece of equipment it is much better not to have to juggle searching through pages on a PC screen for details as opposed to having quick access to pages spread across the bench.? Maybe this is from my brain simply forgetting the reason why it was going somewhere else or why I had to return.? Not having a paper copy usually results in my taking a trip to the local copy shop and printing significant portions of manuals on their large-format machines.? More $$$.
?
Fortunately your high-resolution scans make very successful hard copies.? But I would challenge you to scan the documents of a unit I once had to work on in the past.? The schematics were of a ¡°K¡± size format (40x120 inches) that required they be laid out on the floor to read.? A computer display-sized representation would not have helped me much on this one given the dozens of inter-related schematic sheets to be viewed to follow multiple signal flow.
?
Greg
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
Hello Dave,
A while back I sent you a Tektronix manual for the 2220 scope. Have you had a chance to scan it yet? I want to get a copy of at least the schematics so I can do a calibration.
Regards,
Tom
PS hope you are feeling better. Stay away from the Corona.
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On 2/24/2020 12:36 PM, ArtekManuals wrote: Greg et all
I think actually it is more complicated than just competition...certainly ArtekManuals and a few others are were part of that . Of 5 major manual scanners from 8 years ago only two of us are still around as well. Not competition but rather a shrinking market
AS I recall the lease on Manuals Plus's? building was up and the new lease was significant enough increase that the margins no longer looked as favorable. They offered me the entire inventory for pennies at the time but it looked like 5-7 semi-truck loads just to move it to Florida and then I would also have had to take on the cost of storage leasing. Just did not make good business sense.
The other factor is that for the last 3-5 years what was one time a steadily growing business had finally begun to feel the pinch of time based obsolescence. The product base that service manuals served was rapidly approaching "antique status" . Most products manufactured Starting in the 1990's no longer offered service manuals with schematics ( PLEASE let us not hi-jack this thread on that subject) . The other problem is that the customer base itself was reaching "antique status". The warranty on several? good customers has run out and several of my "regulars" from 5 years ago have gone to the great recycling bin themselves.
IN the 20 years that we have been scanning manuals we always had year over year growth in sales. Then starting 3 years ago we had a flat year and then the last two years of slowly declining sales. In addition to Manuals Plus, Your Manual Source also gave up and a couple of other lesser players packed it in as well.
As the poet of my youth (Bob Dylan) sang "The times they are a changing". When I started out scanning manuals 20 years ago I knew this day would eventually come and in fact it has lasted a bit longer that I thought it would.
For those who might wonder by the way, when it comes my turn to be recycled,? we have made arrangements for our scanned manual data base to be donated to a popular free download site. I however expect to outlive most if not all of you. I buried my father last year at age 98, and for four generations that I knew we have all known at least one or more of our great grandparents. My father would tell you however that living forever was not all it was cracked up to be and that he personally had lived? long enough to regret it.
Dave
ArtekManuals
On 2/24/2020 11:48 AM, Greg Muir via Groups.Io wrote:
Another FYI -
Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar. It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.
I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
Greg
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
Greg et all
I think actually it is more complicated than just competition...certainly ArtekManuals and a few others are were part of that . Of 5 major manual scanners from 8 years ago only two of us are still around as well. Not competition but rather a shrinking market
AS I recall the lease on Manuals Plus's? building was up and the new lease was significant enough increase that the margins no longer looked as favorable. They offered me the entire inventory for pennies at the time but it looked like 5-7 semi-truck loads just to move it to Florida and then I would also have had to take on the cost of storage leasing. Just did not make good business sense.
The other factor is that for the last 3-5 years what was one time a steadily growing business had finally begun to feel the pinch of time based obsolescence. The product base that service manuals served was rapidly approaching "antique status" . Most products manufactured Starting in the 1990's no longer offered service manuals with schematics ( PLEASE let us not hi-jack this thread on that subject) . The other problem is that the customer base itself was reaching "antique status". The warranty on several? good customers has run out and several of my "regulars" from 5 years ago have gone to the great recycling bin themselves.
IN the 20 years that we have been scanning manuals we always had year over year growth in sales. Then starting 3 years ago we had a flat year and then the last two years of slowly declining sales. In addition to Manuals Plus, Your Manual Source also gave up and a couple of other lesser players packed it in as well.
As the poet of my youth (Bob Dylan) sang "The times they are a changing". When I started out scanning manuals 20 years ago I knew this day would eventually come and in fact it has lasted a bit longer that I thought it would.
For those who might wonder by the way, when it comes my turn to be recycled,? we have made arrangements for our scanned manual data base to be donated to a popular free download site. I however expect to outlive most if not all of you. I buried my father last year at age 98, and for four generations that I knew we have all known at least one or more of our great grandparents. My father would tell you however that living forever was not all it was cracked up to be and that he personally had lived? long enough to regret it.
Dave
ArtekManuals
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On 2/24/2020 11:48 AM, Greg Muir via Groups.Io wrote: Another FYI -
Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.
I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
Greg
--
Dave
Manuals@...
www.ArtekManuals.com
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, Ovidiu Popa [Business] wrote: Done uploading the firmware v3.02 ko4bb.com web site. It may take a few
days until it will be up for grabs.
Sorry, A1 has actually 8 EPROMS (6x 27C020 + 2x 27C010) and A2 2x 27C010,
all uploaded in a zip file. OK, Basic support requires not just additional EPROMs but also new RAM chips. The latter is easy, it is those Basic ROMs that are difficult to find. I don't remember what firmware my 2 8751As have (it is different between them, one is newer than other) but it is definitely more recent than 3.02. It might be that newer firmware won't work for older instrument as there was a hardware change at some point -- newer instruments have different boards with one board less than older ones. I have newer ones that my service manual with CLIP doesn't match completely -- it is an older one for older instruments. However it describes adding all options in details and there is a special chapter there for Opt.02. I will try to get it work with my instruments that have newer firmware and let you know if it worked. I don't think that Basic version is firmware version dependent and don't remember that FW version was mentioned in that Opt.02 retrofit chapter but I might be wrong. I'll check the electrolytics on the receiver board ASAP. As far as I have
seen, other boards are chock full of wet tantalum caps, these barely ever
fail, it would cost a fortune to replace :) Oh, those wet tantalums _DO_ fail and their failure is even more damaging than aluminum electrolytics failure as they are filled with sulfuric acid. Wet tantalums are prone to failures if they kept under voltage (i.e. the instrument is powered on) for some [rather long] time -- sulfuric acid etches through their silver case and spills around. I replaced a lot of those in Tektronix 492bp/494ap SAs and in 8350 plugins. There was one big wet tantalum in one of plugins that managed to etch a big hole in the motherboard all the way through it... I have never seen a failed SMD tantalum yet but those wet ones and old dipped thruhole tantalums do fail a lot. Back to the 8751A receivers -- they have an NPC digital filter chip on them surrounded by multiple aluminum electrolytics. It is those ones around that filter that fail -- I had them failed on _ALL_ 6 receiver boards in my 2 8751As... --- * * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * *
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
I believe that the Internet Archive or Way Back Machine may have bought them? ? David ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg Muir via Groups.Io
Sent: 24 February 2020 16:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145) ? Another FYI -
Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.
I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
Greg
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:48 AM Greg Muir via Groups.Io <big_sky_explorer@...> wrote:
Another FYI -
Manuals Plus died the end of 2015. They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources. When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar. It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go. They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.
I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
A person named Jason Scott took most of the remaining Manuals Plus stock and put it into storage. Here is one of many articles about the "rescue":
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
Another FYI -
Manuals Plus died the end of 2015.? They lost out to the competition on ePay and other sources.? When I learned of their ultimate demise I purchased a significant amount of manuals of my test equipment for pennies on the (surplus manual) dollar.? It was uncertain at the time where the remainder of their manuals were going to go.? They weren't dismissing a roll-on dumpster approach to disposal.
I never heard anything about the outcome afterwards.
Greg
|
Done uploading the firmware v3.02 ko4bb.com web site. It may take a few days until it will be up for grabs.
Sorry, A1 has actually 8 EPROMS (6x 27C020 + 2x 27C010) and A2 2x 27C010, all uploaded in a zip file.
I'll check the electrolytics on the receiver board ASAP. As far as I have seen, other boards are chock full of wet tantalum caps, these barely ever fail, it would cost a fortune to replace :)
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Re: Very OT: RF Dummy Load Identification
Hi Nigel,
?
I know the acorn ones, they were used in our TF144H series signal generators ¨C I replaced many of those, back in the day.
Happy to have helped.
?
Actually, without research, I don¡¯t know which product used this type.
?
Sorry this is OT for Agilent/HP guru¡¯s ¨C just keeping the thread intact.
regards
?
Nigel Adams ¨C
Marconi Instruments Heritage Collection
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of NigelP
Sent: 24 February 2020 14:46
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Very OT: RF Dummy Load Identification
?
These thermocouples in the picture are from the O&S so-called ¡°standard range¡± whereas the ones in my dummy loads are of the style (Miniature) UHF Acorn (or flying saucer) without long flying leads at one end but spaced around an annular
ring in the centre of the thermocouple glass. This style generally has a better high frequency capability up to 1GHz; the frequency limit for the standard range is not specified in the O&S catalogue that I have.
Anyway thanks for your interest.
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Sergey, I'll upload the firmware in the 6 (A1) + 2 (A2) EPROMS today, on ko4bb, I have already dumped them. Unfortunately the firmware is only 3.02 That's another issue I was running into, I tried 5.02 and 5.04 firmware (without Basic) and the analyzer is not working properly; while the basic functionality is still there, the self test reports a problem with A2 (with 100% confidence) and when switching to 801 points, the last 100 points or so are garbled, looks like a RAM overlapping. I should probably pull the RAM chips from the sockets, but then I prefer t have 3.02 with Basic rather than 5.04 without.
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Dave, that's the first thing I did. Cable checked ok.
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That's one of the inconsistencies in that message (confusing floppy model). Otherwise, I normally like to understand what I am doing before engaging, and that message doesn't help. It is unclear to me what wiring (and signals) need to be remapped.
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Re: Looking for manual for newer 5335A (serial 3145)
Hi Joe,
Excellent, I really appreciate your action on this. Thank you!
Regards,
Szabolcs
Joe / KN5U <joecline5747@...> ezt ¨ªrta (id?pont: 2020. febr.
24., H, 14:05):
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Hi Szabolcs,
I have the manual you seek, but I exceeded the size limit on this group while trying to upload the 05335-90044 manual, so I posted it on the KO4BB site. It may take a few days to hit the public directory, But I think you can use the FTP site to locate it now. If you need it quickly, Didier has been quite responsive in the past.
Best regards,
Joe, KN5U
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Sergey Kubushyn
Bill Ripley
David C. Partridge