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Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

swingbyte
 

HP must have been an amazing place to work in in the 1970s. It seems they did a lot of R&D in those years. I'm extremely grateful for their old service notes - more information and explanation than one sees these days. there's no great electronics industry in Australia - and from what I have read about HP and TEK it seems to be over in the USA as well. I have spent alot of time reading HP journals etc. I am always impressed with their work and I think I learnt more from them than some of my lectures at university. I still think all EEs should have to work as a tech for at least a couple of months.
The 8566 yig controller is mighty impressive hybrid digital control/analogue signal system - something I would use as a starting point for anything I try to do. This is not intended to be a commercially viable solution - just buy a better more $$ SA if you want that - I was looking for the journey rather than the destination. At the same time - I'm not going to throw too much money into it - if I wanted to waste money I'd have a boat!!

You have some very interesting points in your post (below) thanks. The 3-6 GHz sweet spot must have taken a bit of work to discover.

Tim


lothar baier wrote:


Building a good YIG based synthesizer has its challenges i admitt, first problem is that usually YIGs are not as good in phasenoise to begin with, next thing is that you have to design your drivers carefully and use really low noise powersupplies and filtering, one issue is that with the tuning range of the YIG beein much wider than of a VCO noise and interference on the psu and tuning lines will take its toll on the phasenoise so even the driver and associated lines need to be shielded and filtered.
Next is the approach on how to reduce the Frequency, a frequency divider is nice however there are not too many out there covering 2-18GHz that offer low noise, another approach is to use a harmonic mixer to down convert the Signal to a lower IF range and then prescale and go to a PLL.
Generally it never hurts to look at what HP did , study the design and learn from it, one thing about the 8566 is that it uses a 3-6GHz YIG and for some reason 3-6GHZ seems to be a sweet spot for low phasenoise, at least you get the idea if you look at datasheets, most low phasenoise YIGS are 3-6GHz, dont ask me why
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

lothar baier
 

there are several companies that sell surplus LCD for about $100 or less, earthlcd is one example, changing to LCD would also have the advantage that you get some additional function like printer interface and USB for no additonal cost !
Doing the whole thing is fairly easy since all you have to do is process XY Data, the propellor microcontroller from parallax is perfect for that and you can get A/D conveters with 2 channels and a few K samples very cheap as well.
You can start with a Propellor eval board which has a VGA connector and a pc monitor and go from there, take a look at the datasheet !
Of course you can also go down the complicated route and use a FPGA to do the same functionality, i build a XY Storage display on a Stratix board years ago just for the heck of it and it was quite a experience.
8565A are fairly cheap but keep in mind that the basic RF Functionality in between the 65 and 69 is about the same but the 8569 has digital storage and plot capabilities.


swingbyte <swingbyte@...> wrote:
HP call the board that controls the storage tube persistence, erase etc
the storage assembly. I have been thinking of replacing the tube with
and LCD - but that would cost more than the SA!! Unless I can get a VGA
LCD the right size for ~$400 the cost is prohibitive. The tube is fine,
and there are many CRTs still floating around that could be swapped in
if no persistence was required. I was planning for a minimal
modification and swapping one assembly board with a new one seems good.
Yes I can just stick the outputs into my DSO and I have an 8569
effectively and that's what I will do to start with - but then I don't
see the trace for a long time so I may do something for that.
I have used some LCD panels at work for MFD simulations - but cost isn't
a problem there!
More suggestions welcome.

Tim

lothar baier wrote:

ok , you got me confused here, the 8565 does not have a storage pcb
since it uses a storage CRT , as far as connecting a digitizer that
should be fairly easy, as far as i remember the 8565 has a interface
connector to connect a storage normalizer (8750) on the back panel,
this connector gives you acess to all the signals you need for this task.
However if you put in the time and effort to go for digital storage
why dont you ponder the idea of discarding the CRT at all and replace
it with a LCD panel, there is a bunch of embedded controllers that
offer LCD/TFT interface build in, all you need is a microcontroller,
A/D converter and a Surplus TFT panel and youre ready to go





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Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

swingbyte
 

HP call the board that controls the storage tube persistence, erase etc the storage assembly. I have been thinking of replacing the tube with and LCD - but that would cost more than the SA!! Unless I can get a VGA LCD the right size for ~$400 the cost is prohibitive. The tube is fine, and there are many CRTs still floating around that could be swapped in if no persistence was required. I was planning for a minimal modification and swapping one assembly board with a new one seems good. Yes I can just stick the outputs into my DSO and I have an 8569 effectively and that's what I will do to start with - but then I don't see the trace for a long time so I may do something for that.
I have used some LCD panels at work for MFD simulations - but cost isn't a problem there!
More suggestions welcome.

Tim



lothar baier wrote:


ok , you got me confused here, the 8565 does not have a storage pcb since it uses a storage CRT , as far as connecting a digitizer that should be fairly easy, as far as i remember the 8565 has a interface connector to connect a storage normalizer (8750) on the back panel, this connector gives you acess to all the signals you need for this task.
However if you put in the time and effort to go for digital storage why dont you ponder the idea of discarding the CRT at all and replace it with a LCD panel, there is a bunch of embedded controllers that offer LCD/TFT interface build in, all you need is a microcontroller, A/D converter and a Surplus TFT panel and youre ready to go
Commercial interest ?

microwaveengineer1968
 

One thing that comes up more and more often from people on this
newsgroup is the .... im not doing anything unlessi get paid for
it ! dont get me wrong i like money as much as anyone else and im not
this well off that i dont need any income but lets reflect and think
about it for a second....
If many of the great inventors would have shown this attitude than we
would be without a phone, light or electricity and the laws of basic
electronics would never been written!
Lets face it, many of the great inventors didnt start out because
they wanted to make money, they were tinkerers who liked to dabble
around and wanted to make things better, true in many cases wealth
and large companies came out of the original invention but it was not
the primary concern of the guy when he spend countless hours, days
and month sometimes years in the lab going trough trial after trial
facing the riddicule of friends family and sometimes even peers !
There are still many hams designing microwave circutry and publishing
detailed instructions on how to build their creations in magazines
for anyone to build without asking for any compensation.
Lets take for example Michael Kuhne DB6NT of germany who pioneered
many easy to build 10,24 and 47GHz designs, he did all the work in
his spare time, published many instructions and articles in DUBUS and
traveled from SHF convention to convention to promote his designs and
to answer questions from newcomers on how to build and improve those
designs, all on his own money without any commercial interest !
True sooner or later a company resulted out of it and today kuhne
electronic is good in business but it was not the primary idea of
michael when he started designing his stuff !
Sometimes we just need to step back and do things out of technical
interest without asking the $ question first, after all the good book
tells us that who seeks his rewards on this earth shall get their
rewards here and not in heaven !
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

Peter Gottlieb
 

I have a degree, but the truth be known I learned at least 95% of what I know by playing on the bench, taking things apart, modifying radio gear, building my own test gear when I was a kid, and then working my way up in jobs in engineering before I decided to go and get an actual degree. Yes, I spent a lot of time in libraries, and had a couple of uncles in engineering who answered questions, gave me books, and generally pointed me in the right direction. When you love something and are truly driven, it is amazing what you can do!!

Peter


John Miles wrote:


Hmm, I see I left some room for that to be taken the wrong way. When I
said, "Eventually I feel compelled to return to the workbench, where I spend
a lot of time and money answering questions that could, frankly, be better
resolved for free in a library," I was referring to MY OWN questions, not
anyone else's.

Meaning, if I had any sense, I'd spend a couple of years in an EE classroom
rather than wandering the empirical path of Paracelsus, Ramanujan, and that
nutcase down the street with the tinfoil on his windows. :)

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>]On Behalf Of arthurok
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:52 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


i have the same problem john
deling with freeloaders that dont want to crank their
heads or geet b their hands dirty
maybe we should go on strike for them
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
<mailto:hp_agilent_equipment%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


Heh... I tend to go for a couple of years at a time without doing much
electronics work at all, selling all my gear on eBay and going
back to the
real world to rebuild my finances. Eventually I feel compelled
to return to
the workbench, where I spend a lot of time and money answering questions
that could, frankly, be better resolved for free in a library.

I don't recommend this approach to others, especially those
with families
and other real-world responsibilities. :)

-- john, KE5FX
CRT Restoration and Testing, B&K 465 Available

 

Hello to all,

Lots of discussion about restoring CRTs lately.

FYI, I have a BK 465 CRT tester/restorer available.
Good conditon, with manuals and cabling. Never was
able to sell it at the Hamvention, swap meets, ebay,
QTH, etc. Not worth much, but let me know if anyone is
interested.

Regards,

Jim


____________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

lothar baier
 

Building a good YIG based synthesizer has its challenges i admitt, first problem is that usually YIGs are not as good in phasenoise to begin with, next thing is that you have to design your drivers carefully and use really low noise powersupplies and filtering, one issue is that with the tuning range of the YIG beein much wider than of a VCO noise and interference on the psu and tuning lines will take its toll on the phasenoise so even the driver and associated lines need to be shielded and filtered.
Next is the approach on how to reduce the Frequency, a frequency divider is nice however there are not too many out there covering 2-18GHz that offer low noise, another approach is to use a harmonic mixer to down convert the Signal to a lower IF range and then prescale and go to a PLL.
Generally it never hurts to look at what HP did , study the design and learn from it, one thing about the 8566 is that it uses a 3-6GHz YIG and for some reason 3-6GHZ seems to be a sweet spot for low phasenoise, at least you get the idea if you look at datasheets, most low phasenoise YIGS are 3-6GHz, dont ask me why

John Miles <jmiles@...> wrote:
> Hi John,
Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.
Keep in mind that there's no benefit to digitizing post-detected trace
signals (x and y) at rates beyond the bandwidth of the widest video filter,
typically a few MHz at most. And if you digitize the final IF, the
bandwidth may still be limited to a few MHz by other filters in the SA's
signal chain.

If you are that ambitious, I think the best approach -- meaning, the one
that would benefit others the most, and require you to do the least original
engineering work -- would be to launch a project using the USRP or other GNU
Radio peripherals as a general-purpose spectrum analyzer back end. Keep it
simple at first or you'll never get anywhere! Trust me on that...

I figure I might
have enough space on that board and use the control inputs for other
purposes such as selected storage mode or other function since they
wouldn't be controlling the tube any more. Still early ponderances -
I only just got the SA and need to play with it a bit more!! I've
decided its time to move into the exciting world of RF and high speed
digital - spent enough of time on slow - medium speed digital and
software - besides - that's what I do at work.
It's definitely a good idea to spend time coming to grips with the
limitations of what you have. The obvious specification deficiencies aren't
always the ones that will end up limiting your measurements.

I was interested in your hybrid 2GHz vco and possible use as a yig
stabilizer.
Heh... that will teach you all you (n)ever wanted to know about noise and
stability. Building a clean YIG synthesizer is a challenging project. I
still haven't managed to do as well as the old HP designs, even with
much-newer opamps and other parts... which is one reason I chickened out
when I realized I was faced with that sort of problem in my 8566 'redesign'
project. It will have to wait until I can devote a lot more time to it.

I just realised that we looked at using your pc sound system where I
work. We're now moving from SGIs into pcs and may be looking at it
again. :-)
Oh, you mean the sound system I'm supposed to be working on right now. Oh,
yeah, THAT. :)

-- john, KE5FX






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Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

lothar baier
 

Hmmm sounds kinda familiar, im going trough this cycle every few years, usually when im employed i packrat stuff especially microwave parts, machinery and test gear to build up my lab until my wife throws out divorce threats, then i lose my job and start selling stuff off left and right to make ends meet, usually when i reduced my stuff a bunch i find another job and the cycle starts again, its really easy to be a packrat when you are a design engineer especially for a large player, most distributors and manufacturers are very generous with free samples and tools, usually once a month you get a email with offers for some samples or a free development kit and usually i reply :) so stuff gathers up fast !
The last really useful thing was a PSOC kit from cypress, i just love those little mixed signal microcontrollers, they are very easy to programm, the C compiler is cheap and the devices are cheap and versatile not to mention they have devices with USB, the last project i did was a USB switch controller, well im still kinda working on the firmware for that :)

John Miles <jmiles@...> wrote:
Heh... I tend to go for a couple of years at a time without doing much
electronics work at all, selling all my gear on eBay and going back to the
real world to rebuild my finances. Eventually I feel compelled to return to
the workbench, where I spend a lot of time and money answering questions
that could, frankly, be better resolved for free in a library.

I don't recommend this approach to others, especially those with families
and other real-world responsibilities. :)

-- john, KE5FX

one problem i find is that the market for stuff like
this is soo small that
it isnt worth my time.
i cant afford to spend alot of time on things that have
very little return
at oner time i had enough money to play for long
periods of time
that isnt the case any longer im not as fotunate as john miles.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


Hi John,
Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.





---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

John Miles
 

Hmm, I see I left some room for that to be taken the wrong way. When I
said, "Eventually I feel compelled to return to the workbench, where I spend
a lot of time and money answering questions that could, frankly, be better
resolved for free in a library," I was referring to MY OWN questions, not
anyone else's.

Meaning, if I had any sense, I'd spend a couple of years in an EE classroom
rather than wandering the empirical path of Paracelsus, Ramanujan, and that
nutcase down the street with the tinfoil on his windows. :)

-- john, KE5FX

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of arthurok
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:52 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


i have the same problem john
deling with freeloaders that dont want to crank their
heads or geet b their hands dirty
maybe we should go on strike for them
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


Heh... I tend to go for a couple of years at a time without doing much
electronics work at all, selling all my gear on eBay and going
back to the
real world to rebuild my finances. Eventually I feel compelled
to return to
the workbench, where I spend a lot of time and money answering questions
that could, frankly, be better resolved for free in a library.

I don't recommend this approach to others, especially those
with families
and other real-world responsibilities. :)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

 

i have the same problem john
deling with freeloaders that dont want to crank their heads or geet b their hands dirty
maybe we should go on strike for them

----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


Heh... I tend to go for a couple of years at a time without doing much
electronics work at all, selling all my gear on eBay and going back to the
real world to rebuild my finances. Eventually I feel compelled to return to
the workbench, where I spend a lot of time and money answering questions
that could, frankly, be better resolved for free in a library.

I don't recommend this approach to others, especially those with families
and other real-world responsibilities. :)

-- john, KE5FX

> one problem i find is that the market for stuff like
> this is soo small that
> it isnt worth my time.
> i cant afford to spend alot of time on things that have
> very little return
> at oner time i had enough money to play for long
> periods of time
> that isnt the case any longer im not as fotunate as john miles.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Miles
> To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods
>
>
> > Hi John,
> > Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
> > sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
> > if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.
>
>
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

John Miles
 

Heh... I tend to go for a couple of years at a time without doing much
electronics work at all, selling all my gear on eBay and going back to the
real world to rebuild my finances. Eventually I feel compelled to return to
the workbench, where I spend a lot of time and money answering questions
that could, frankly, be better resolved for free in a library.

I don't recommend this approach to others, especially those with families
and other real-world responsibilities. :)

-- john, KE5FX

one problem i find is that the market for stuff like
this is soo small that
it isnt worth my time.
i cant afford to spend alot of time on things that have
very little return
at oner time i had enough money to play for long
periods of time
that isnt the case any longer im not as fotunate as john miles.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


> Hi John,
> Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
> sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
> if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

 

one problem i find is that the market for stuff like this is soo small that
it isnt worth my time.
i cant afford to spend alot of time on things that have very little return
at oner time i had enough money to play for long periods of time
that isnt the case any longer im not as fotunate as john miles.

----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8565 hacking/mods


> Hi John,
> Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
> sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
> if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.

Keep in mind that there's no benefit to digitizing post-detected trace
signals (x and y) at rates beyond the bandwidth of the widest video filter,
typically a few MHz at most. And if you digitize the final IF, the
bandwidth may still be limited to a few MHz by other filters in the SA's
signal chain.

If you are that ambitious, I think the best approach -- meaning, the one
that would benefit others the most, and require you to do the least original
engineering work -- would be to launch a project using the USRP or other GNU
Radio peripherals as a general-purpose spectrum analyzer back end. Keep it
simple at first or you'll never get anywhere! Trust me on that...

> I figure I might
> have enough space on that board and use the control inputs for other
> purposes such as selected storage mode or other function since they
> wouldn't be controlling the tube any more. Still early ponderances -
> I only just got the SA and need to play with it a bit more!! I've
> decided its time to move into the exciting world of RF and high speed
> digital - spent enough of time on slow - medium speed digital and
> software - besides - that's what I do at work.

It's definitely a good idea to spend time coming to grips with the
limitations of what you have. The obvious specification deficiencies aren't
always the ones that will end up limiting your measurements.

> I was interested in your hybrid 2GHz vco and possible use as a yig
> stabilizer.

Heh... that will teach you all you (n)ever wanted to know about noise and
stability. Building a clean YIG synthesizer is a challenging project. I
still haven't managed to do as well as the old HP designs, even with
much-newer opamps and other parts... which is one reason I chickened out
when I realized I was faced with that sort of problem in my 8566 'redesign'
project. It will have to wait until I can devote a lot more time to it.

> I just realised that we looked at using your pc sound system where I
> work. We're now moving from SGIs into pcs and may be looking at it
> again. :-)

Oh, you mean the sound system I'm supposed to be working on right now. Oh,
yeah, THAT. :)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

John Miles
 

Hi John,
Yes I have seen that unit - I was pondering something more
sophisticated. Along the lines of 100MSa/s to FPGA to digitize x,y or
if and an embedded web-server to get the data out.
Keep in mind that there's no benefit to digitizing post-detected trace
signals (x and y) at rates beyond the bandwidth of the widest video filter,
typically a few MHz at most. And if you digitize the final IF, the
bandwidth may still be limited to a few MHz by other filters in the SA's
signal chain.

If you are that ambitious, I think the best approach -- meaning, the one
that would benefit others the most, and require you to do the least original
engineering work -- would be to launch a project using the USRP or other GNU
Radio peripherals as a general-purpose spectrum analyzer back end. Keep it
simple at first or you'll never get anywhere! Trust me on that...

I figure I might
have enough space on that board and use the control inputs for other
purposes such as selected storage mode or other function since they
wouldn't be controlling the tube any more. Still early ponderances -
I only just got the SA and need to play with it a bit more!! I've
decided its time to move into the exciting world of RF and high speed
digital - spent enough of time on slow - medium speed digital and
software - besides - that's what I do at work.
It's definitely a good idea to spend time coming to grips with the
limitations of what you have. The obvious specification deficiencies aren't
always the ones that will end up limiting your measurements.

I was interested in your hybrid 2GHz vco and possible use as a yig
stabilizer.
Heh... that will teach you all you (n)ever wanted to know about noise and
stability. Building a clean YIG synthesizer is a challenging project. I
still haven't managed to do as well as the old HP designs, even with
much-newer opamps and other parts... which is one reason I chickened out
when I realized I was faced with that sort of problem in my 8566 'redesign'
project. It will have to wait until I can devote a lot more time to it.

I just realised that we looked at using your pc sound system where I
work. We're now moving from SGIs into pcs and may be looking at it
again. :-)
Oh, you mean the sound system I'm supposed to be working on right now. Oh,
yeah, THAT. :)

-- john, KE5FX
Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

lothar baier
 

you might want to try ebay, another way is to find the connectors or strip them out of a old unit and then make a PCB board for it, all you need is the spacing for the board.
If you dont have any way of etching boards and dont want a boarshop doing it you can just get a strip of 2 sided FR4 about 1" wide, layout your contacts with a ruler and then use a dremel tool or a sharp knive to cut insulation channels in between the contacts, use a piece of ribbon cable to connect this contact to the female part (the green connector) and there you made yourself a extender board ! most of the RF stuff is routed trough coax so the contacts only carry DC and control signals

David C. Hallam" <dhallam@...> wrote:
I guess I have to amend my posting and apologize to HP. I misread the
drawing for the SMB connector and in fact these connectors are SMB. They
are not "goofy".

Also, I think I have located a 500 MHz plug-in for my 5245L counter.

Now, if I could just find the extender cards to service the modules, I would
be on my way to relatively painless trouble shooting of the 8443A. Repairs
may be another matter.

David
KC2JD/4

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of David C. Hallam
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:19 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

I did call them GOOFY because that is what they are. They are goofy
because
I think the only place in the whole world they were used was the jacks and
plugs for the cables of the connections between modules of the 8443A. They
are not SMA, SMB, or SMC. I have looked at drawing of each of these types
are the are not same as what HP used. I have no idea what they are or
where to obtain them. I would certainly appreciate it if anyone could
identify them along with a source of supply. As far as I am concerned
their
official description is "unobtainiun".

David
KC2JD/4
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of David Wise
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 5:03 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

I didn't call them goofy, David Hallam (the OP) did.
You and I are referring to what's more commonly called
"Hybrid-D" connectors. (From context,
I judge that David Hallam is thinking of the SMB (SMC?)
plugs on the inter-assembly cables inside the instrument.
The hybrid-D of interest in this thread actually has no
standard D contacts at all, it's all coaxes. Which by the
way are called "Size 8". Not to inundate you with 8's,
but the connector pin layout is called "8W8", which
predictably means 8 contacts 8 of which are coax.

Regards,
Dave Wise

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of J Forster
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:02 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking
Generator Problems


Sealectro is a brand. They made SMA, SMB, SMC, and a number
of other miniature
coax connectors. They ALSO made a number of proprietary types
in addition to the
standards.

As to 'goofy', do you mean the D connectors w/ the mix of
coax and ordinary
pins?

-John



David Wise wrote:

They did call them by an obsolete name, "selectro" (or was
it "sealectro"?).



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Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

lothar baier
 

the coax contacts are made by ITT Cannon as well as some other companies, you can buy them from mouser, digi key or pasternack, the only problem is that they are crimped on the outside so you need a crimping tool.
pasternack also sells cables with the contacts already crimped on but they run about $20ea, howewer if you consider the cost of a contact @ $3-4ea, the time you spend stripping the coax and about $50-100 for the crimping tool you might want to consider buying the cables ready made

J Forster <jfor@...> wrote:
It turns out they are 50 Ohm SMBs.

Interestingly SMBs have become a lot more common (and cheaper) recently
because of GPS and wireless networking and extension cables and adapters
are now readily available on eBay.

Best,
-John

w6sfh wrote:

Gentlemen,

I have two HP 8443 tracking generators, one is an "A" model with the
counter and one is a "B" model without the counter. Both use SMB
connectors on the coaxes that interconnect the individual PC board
assemblies.
David C. Hallam wrote:

John,

They are gold plated and have Teflon insulation. I'll send a
couple of pictures tomorrow. [snip]





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Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

David C. Hallam
 

I guess I have to amend my posting and apologize to HP. I misread the
drawing for the SMB connector and in fact these connectors are SMB. They
are not "goofy".

Also, I think I have located a 500 MHz plug-in for my 5245L counter.

Now, if I could just find the extender cards to service the modules, I would
be on my way to relatively painless trouble shooting of the 8443A. Repairs
may be another matter.

David
KC2JD/4

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of David C. Hallam
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:19 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems


I did call them GOOFY because that is what they are. They are goofy
because
I think the only place in the whole world they were used was the jacks and
plugs for the cables of the connections between modules of the 8443A. They
are not SMA, SMB, or SMC. I have looked at drawing of each of these types
are the are not same as what HP used. I have no idea what they are or
where to obtain them. I would certainly appreciate it if anyone could
identify them along with a source of supply. As far as I am concerned
their
official description is "unobtainiun".

David
KC2JD/4
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of David Wise
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 5:03 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

I didn't call them goofy, David Hallam (the OP) did.
You and I are referring to what's more commonly called
"Hybrid-D" connectors. (From context,
I judge that David Hallam is thinking of the SMB (SMC?)
plugs on the inter-assembly cables inside the instrument.
The hybrid-D of interest in this thread actually has no
standard D contacts at all, it's all coaxes. Which by the
way are called "Size 8". Not to inundate you with 8's,
but the connector pin layout is called "8W8", which
predictably means 8 contacts 8 of which are coax.

Regards,
Dave Wise

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
> [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of J Forster
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:02 PM
> To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
> Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking
> Generator Problems
>
>
> Sealectro is a brand. They made SMA, SMB, SMC, and a number
> of other miniature
> coax connectors. They ALSO made a number of proprietary types
> in addition to the
> standards.
>
> As to 'goofy', do you mean the D connectors w/ the mix of
> coax and ordinary
> pins?
>
> -John
>
>
>
> David Wise wrote:
>
> > They did call them by an obsolete name, "selectro" (or was
> it "sealectro"?).
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

J Forster
 

It turns out they are 50 Ohm SMBs.

Interestingly SMBs have become a lot more common (and cheaper) recently
because of GPS and wireless networking and extension cables and adapters
are now readily available on eBay.

Best,
-John




w6sfh wrote:

Gentlemen,

I have two HP 8443 tracking generators, one is an "A" model with the
counter and one is a "B" model without the counter. Both use SMB
connectors on the coaxes that interconnect the individual PC board
assemblies.
David C. Hallam wrote:

John,

They are gold plated and have Teflon insulation. I'll send a
couple of pictures tomorrow. [snip]
Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

 

w6sfh wrote:


I worked for Hewlett-Packard at the factory where the HP 8443's were manufactured and I don't recall ever seeing anything but SMB and SMC connectors used for this type of application in those days.
I've already said this but nobody wants to believe it Bob. But great to get it confirmed from the source.

As for the interconnect cable from the tracking generator to the spectrum analyzer, it's not necessary to have the connector shell. If you can find the appropriate coax connector inserts (sorry, but I don't know the part numbers), they can be used without the shell,
The 8W8 shells are readily available, from Mouser, among others. Quite cheaply in fact. $3 or $4 from memory. The coax inserts are also available as are metal shrouds and the slide locks
73
Dan
ac6ao
Re: Hp-8443A Tracking Generator Problems

w6sfh
 

Gentlemen,

I have two HP 8443 tracking generators, one is an "A" model with the
counter and one is a "B" model without the counter. Both use SMB
connectors on the coaxes that interconnect the individual PC board
assemblies. SMC connectors are used on the step attenuators and the
blocking capacitor assembly on the output connector. Note that one
end of each RF cable is permanently attached to the cover of the PC
board assembly.

I worked for Hewlett-Packard at the factory where the HP 8443's were
manufactured and I don't recall ever seeing anything but SMB and SMC
connectors used for this type of application in those days.

As for the interconnect cable from the tracking generator to the
spectrum analyzer, it's not necessary to have the connector shell. If
you can find the appropriate coax connector inserts (sorry, but I
don't know the part numbers), they can be used without the shell, as
there is enough friction to hold them in place when inserted into the
connectors on the tracking generator and spectrum analyzer rear
panels. The positions on each end correspond one-for-one. Of course
you'll have to be careful not to dislodge the connectors, but for
bench top applications this should not be a problem. Also, the system
may not pass the original specifications for radiated emissions and
susceptability without the original interconnect cable, but again
this may not be a problem for most applications.

Regards,

Bob Dildine

--- In hp_agilent_equipment@..., "Dave Brown"
<tractorb@...> wrote:

David-
If they ARE microdots, then it may be an option to recover a
connector
plus a short length of coax from surplus equipment-depending on
what
test lead(s?) you want to make up. Microdots were used in 76 and 78
series Lenkurt (analog microwave radio) gear-for example.
But pictures are essential to know exactly what you need.
DaveB, NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "J Forster" <jfor@...>
To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking Generator
Problems


jfor@...

As to a source, there are a number of distributers, but they will
likely be
expensive.
-J


David C. Hallam wrote:

John,

They are gold plated and have Teflon insulation. I'll send a
couple of
pictures tomorrow. I hope you can identify them and give a
source
of
supply. What is your email address?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of J
Forster
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:45 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Hp-8443A Tracking
Generator
Problems

They are very likely Sealectro or MicroDot. If you email me a
(small ) pic
of
both M and F, off list, I'll see if I can ID them.

If they are gold plated with Teflon insulation between center
and
outer
conductors, Sealectro is the most likely choice.

-John

David C. Hallam wrote:

> I did call them GOOFY because that is what they are. They
are
goofy
because
> I think the only place in the whole world they were used was
the jacks
and
> plugs for the cables of the connections between modules of
the
8443A.
They
> are not SMA, SMB, or SMC. I have looked at drawing of each
of
these
types
> are the are not same as what HP used. I have no idea what
they
are or
> where to obtain them. I would certainly appreciate it if
anyone
could
> identify them along with a source of supply. As far as I am
concerned
their
> official description is "unobtainiun".
>
> David
> KC2JD/4



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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16/11/2007 09:52
Re: HP8565 hacking/mods

lothar baier
 

ok , you got me confused here, the 8565 does not have a storage pcb since it uses a storage CRT , as far as connecting a digitizer that should be fairly easy, as far as i remember the 8565 has a interface connector to connect a storage normalizer (8750) on the back panel, this connector gives you acess to all the signals you need for this task.
However if you put in the time and effort to go for digital storage why dont you ponder the idea of discarding the CRT at all and replace it with a LCD panel, there is a bunch of embedded controllers that offer LCD/TFT interface build in, all you need is a microcontroller, A/D converter and a Surplus TFT panel and youre ready to go

swingbyte <swingbyte@...> wrote:
Hi fellow hp'ers,
I'm the new owner of a HP8565 SA and think its pretty good. However,
the hacker in me is already pondering modding it. In particular, I have
been thinking of replacing the storage pcb with a new one, only
operating the tube in conventional mode and using the rest of the space
to add a digitiser/playback system. Has anyone else attempted something
similar? Although digital systems and ADCs are now fast enough to do
this - I chose the 8565 because it YIG RF systems still seem current
state of art - and I could always digitise the rear outputs with
something to avoid having to use the long persistence. I was prompted
to write this after reading John Mills email about trying to increase
the stability of his 8566 YIG and stated thinking maybe the 8565 could
benefit from this? ( by the way - great web site you have!)
The 8565 was at the price I could afford, I would have gone for an 8569
and would LOVE an 8566 - but here in Australia they're expensive - even
through ebay - the shipping cost kills any bargains!
But this is a hobby and I like hacking and modding.
Another thought was to route the if signal to a DSO and FFT for greater
resolution - would the 8565 LO be stable enough?

Thanks for any thoughts

Tim ( no call sign yet)






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