Re: 3585B Spectrum Analyzer
On 10/16/2017 04:39 PM, ve3poa@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote: So far I've removed all the boards I could that were relatively easy.? I
have not touched the ones that are under a metal panel identified as A
and then a number. A31 or A32 for example.
I'm no longer getting the several beeps sequence as before so something
has changed. Noticed after examining the power supple boards. However
the alphanumerics still do not display and the flashing dot on the
screen remains.
No burnt components were noticed when examining the boards or even a
hint that something was askew.
So, on to the next phase but that will be tomorrow. Hey Peter, just a random data point here, from my own experience. I picked up a 3585A awhile back that seemed to be a basket case. Display problems, sweep control problems, pretty much everything seemed broken. It was very cheap, and I had the service manual, so I was up for the challenge. I spent hours troubleshooting it, and eventually found that nearly all of its problems were due to poorly-seated boards. The only other issue was a blown fuse in the display section. Now, conventional wisdom says "something caused that fuse to blow", but the documentation simply states that if it's blown, just replace it. It seems that fuse was just a bit under-specified, and they knew it. Anyway, after some quality time with some DeOxit gold wipes on the card-edge connectors, the analyzer is rock solid. There are a LOT of card-edge connectors in that analyzer, and they're getting old by now...you might want to take a look in that direction. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
I use the citrus based Goo Gone to remove most labels. The citrus oil is very thin, and it evaporates. I have even used ot to remove price tags from paperback books. A few drops on a cotton ball, and let it sit for a few minutes to soften the adhesive, then carefully peel off the label. The older the label, the longer it needs to soak. As far as books or other printed mater, don't rub the surface, or you can remove the ink. I have used over a half gallon of it, so far. I also use it to remove inventory labels from surplus reels of SMD components, to expose the EM labels.
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-----Original Message----- From: "guancalvin@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Oct 16, 2017 1:39 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Plan to deep cleaning my gear
Thank a lot for all your inputs guys! My instruments work very well for their age. I just wanted to make them great again:)
After reading your posts, I figured I will stay away from using any liquid or solvent for PCB cleaning. I would just use electronics grade gas duster to blow dust off the surface of the boards. Or a small vacuum and a high quality horse hair brush would work better?
I was under impression that excessive dust would pick up moisture that would damage my equipments. Is that true?
For some very old and dry sticker residue on the front panel, how should I safely remove them? I have Goo Gone but don't know if it's safe for instrument. It's kind of oily.
Thanks again!
Calvin
Michael A. Terrell
|
How to clean NiCd batt leak residue
Hi there,
When I opened up my 8672A synthesized CW generator, I found the NiCad batt pack was leaking. It was clean few years back. I removed it immediately but it left blueish and sort of oily film like residue on the aluminum housing wall.?
What is the best way to clean the damn leaky NiCad residue off the aluminum?
Thanks, Calvin
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
?????? Liquid dishwahing detergent like Dawn is safe for
nearly everything. You have to test paint. Use a cotton swab
somewhere where a mark won't show. Naphtha is safe for many paints
but not all, isopropyl alcohol is fairly safe. Solvents like
acetone, xylene, etc are almost always going to attack paint. MEK
will attack about everything. Watch out for household spray
cleaners, some seem benign but are not. Again test in a small
place.
?????? Kerosene is a fairly mild solvent and may work on residue from
labels. Its a good degreaser.
>>??? ???You have not said what equipment
you want to
clean. >> It does make a difference.???
I want to clean
8350B/83592B sweep source, 8510 Vector Network Analyzer
display and I/F sections, and the S-Parameter test set, and
a 8566B spectrum analyzer(RF and Display).
The 8510C panel
is plastic, others are not, want to make sure whatever I use
is going to eat the paint.
Thanks,
Calvin
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
>>? ?You have not said what equipment you want to
clean. >> It does make a difference.?
I want to clean 8350B/83592B sweep source, 8510 Vector Network Analyzer display and I/F sections, and the S-Parameter test set, and a 8566B spectrum analyzer(RF and Display).
The 8510C panel is plastic, others are not, want to make sure whatever I use is going to eat the paint.
Thanks, Calvin
|
Hello,
no problem. If you ever change your mind let me know
With best regards
Tam Hanna
---
NEW: Enjoy electronics? Like seeing oscilloscopes get repaired? Please subscribe to my new YouTube channel ->
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?
Hi Tam,
No, thank you.
Frank
|
Does anyone have the pinout for the 5086-7267 YIG oscillator handy?
My google-fu seems to be weak today.
Thanks,
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
|
Re: 3585B Spectrum Analyzer
So far I've removed all the boards I could that were relatively easy.? I have not touched the ones that are under a metal panel identified as A and then a number. A31 or A32 for example.
I'm no longer getting the several beeps sequence as before so something has changed. Noticed after examining the power supple boards. However the alphanumerics still do not display and the flashing dot on the screen remains.
No burnt components were noticed when examining the boards or even a hint that something was askew.
So, on to the next phase but that will be tomorrow.
thanks, Peter
ve3poa?
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
?????? You have not said what equipment you want to
clean. It does make a difference. I have detailed the method of
washing employed at the -hp- service center a great many years ago
but this was used on what are now antiques. I will repeat it for
any interested. We used liquid dishwashing detergent diluted in
warm water in a paint spray gun.
?????? For the residue of cal tags and property tags WD-40 works
pretty well as does hand cleaner. Naphtha may work and usually
does not attack paint. Ronsonol is pretty pure and does not leave
a residue, I use it for cleaning camera shutters but canned
naphtha is cheaper and probably works as well. I would be careful
of the "all purpose" solvents now sold to replace naphtha, MEK,
acetone, etc. It really can't and may attack some items naphtha
does not.
?????? If you clean a chassis by spraying and rinsing it really must
be baked out. We used a ventilated electric oven at 130F for at
least two days and I preferred to let things cook for longer if
possible.??? Make sure to remove any parts that are water or heat
sensitive.
On 10/16/2017 12:37 PM, Daun Yeagley
daun@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
I find that Ronson lighter
fluid, which is just naptha works very well.??? This includes not
only label goo, but a wide range of "dirt".??? It's mild and doesn't
hurt plastics (at least not any that I've come across).??? I keep it
right there on my bench and use it for most cleaning jobs,
including also flux removal.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley, II, N8ASB
???
Thank a lot for all your inputs guys! My instruments work
very well for their age. I just wanted to make them great
again:)
After reading your posts, I figured I will stay away from
using any liquid or solvent for PCB cleaning. I would just???
use electronics grade gas duster to blow dust off the
surface of the boards. Or a small vacuum and a high quality
horse hair brush would work better????
???
???I was under impression that excessive dust would pick up
moisture that would damage my equipments. Is that true?
For some very old and dry sticker residue on the front
panel, how should I safely remove them? I have Goo Gone but
don't know if it's safe for instrument. It's kind of oily.
Thanks again!
Calvin???
--
Richard Knoppow
dickburk@...
WB6KBL
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
I find that Ronson lighter fluid, which is just naptha works very
well.? This includes not only label goo, but a wide range of
"dirt".? It's mild and doesn't hurt plastics (at least not any that
I've come across).? I keep it right there on my bench and use it for
most cleaning jobs, including also flux removal.
Daun
Daun E. Yeagley, II, N8ASB
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?
Thank a lot for all your inputs guys! My instruments work
very well for their age. I just wanted to make them great
again:)
After reading your posts, I figured I will stay away
from using any liquid or solvent for PCB cleaning. I would
just? use electronics grade gas duster to blow dust off
the surface of the boards. Or a small vacuum and a high
quality horse hair brush would work better??
?
?I was under impression that excessive dust would pick
up moisture that would damage my equipments. Is that true?
For some very old and dry sticker residue on the front
panel, how should I safely remove them? I have Goo Gone
but don't know if it's safe for instrument. It's kind of
oily.
Thanks again!
Calvin?
|
Hi Tam, No, thank you. Frank
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
The only thing I'd wash with water and soap is the front panel itself (completely removed from the instrument, and any pcbs or wiring harnesses removed from it), any knobs once removed from the pots, and possibly the rubberized keyboard membrane (if applicable) after removed from the backing pcb. They come out like brand new using hot-ish water, manual dishwashing soap (palmolive, dawn, etc), and if necessary an old toothbrush or larger scrub brush (with very soft bristles). For anything else, I'd just use compressed air to remove as much dust as possible and stop there.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:39 AM, guancalvin@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
?
Thank a lot for all your inputs guys! My instruments work very well for their age. I just wanted to make them great again:)
After reading your posts, I figured I will stay away from using any liquid or solvent for PCB cleaning. I would just? use electronics grade gas duster to blow dust off the surface of the boards. Or a small vacuum and a high quality horse hair brush would work better?? ? ?I was under impression that excessive dust would pick up moisture that would damage my equipments. Is that true?
For some very old and dry sticker residue on the front panel, how should I safely remove them? I have Goo Gone but don't know if it's safe for instrument. It's kind of oily.
Thanks again! Calvin?
|
Re: YIG device failure modes
Tobias,
The main coil is for pretune -- which brings the center frequency of the YTO to the YTO PLL's capturing range which is usually +/- 20~30mhz around the CF. The FM coil is used to perform the phase locking. HP also feeds LF from the loop filter to the main coil path to help DC tracking and pretune.
I would worry more about the FM coil's tuning sensitivity and modulation bandwidth which have great effects on the closed loop dynamic. The tuning sensitivity is easy to measure yourself but the modulation bandwidth is not. The idea is to make sure the FM bandwidth (which translates to a pole in the open loop transfer function), is 10 times higher than the PLL's open loop bandwidth.
Good luck! Calvin ---In hp_agilent_equipment@..., <tobias.pluess@...> wrote :
Jeff, re-fitting a different YIG was an option which I was thinking about when I repaired my 8341A sweeper. The YIG is a 5086-7323 which operates from 2.3 to 7GHz and tuning coil sensitivity is 24mA/GHz. However, I wonder how accurate those 24mA/GHz are. For
instance, if I fitted another YIG with 20mA/GHz, would that work as well? the YO driver used can be calibrated for offset and gain... Have you ever fitted a replacement YIG? What about those SYTMs HP has used sometimes (switchable YIG tuned multiplier)? is there any replacement? And do you have an idea what the reason could be for the semiconductor to fail? assuming the operating voltages were ok, is there some chemical aging process or so which destroys the semiconductor some day? because there are instruments which are 30 yrs
old and still working, but the older they get the more difficult it will be to find spare parts I guess; if the YIG fails and cannot be replaced, the whole instrument is nothing more than a really heavy paperweight....
Tobias HB9FSX
-------- Original message -------- From: "kmec@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...> Date: 10/16/17 06:01 (GMT+01:00) To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] YIG device failure modes
?I have tested several hundred YIG devices over my career. (Have drawers full of them, its a sickness)? I have seen more misaligned YIG support rods or bad oscillator semiconductors than I have seen bad coils. ? Sometimes the coil connection fails at the solder point due to wire wrap/crimp failure and current heating the joint, eventually it opens, have fixed three like this. Some model YIGs have high coil current and if poorly cooled/heatsunk, the enamel insulation
seems to fail and create a sorted coil. Only have seen one like this, but opened it up and figured out the failure. ? Other times, the polystyrene rod that holds the YIG sphere warps & twists over time from heat?& general plasticizer failure?and misaligns the magnetic axis of the sphere with the field, pretty tough to fix this, major cause of holes and high end tailing
off. And, of course, when the semiconductor device fails (Gunn diode in older X band and up, Bipolar thru 12 GHz for old ones, FET now), you are done. ? It is possible to re-fit different YIGs into various pieces of gear, but re-scaling the drivers to the right coil sensitivities can be challenging/time-consuming. ? The worst thing to deal with is the wideband? YIG tuned multipliers. Never had much luck bringing these back to life once they go south. ? YMMV Jeff Kruth WA3ZKR ? In a message dated 10/15/2017 1:40:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hp_agilent_equipment@... writes: ?Hi guys. Over the years I have read a lot about yigs going bad specifically their coils seem to go bad. Is there anything that can be done pre-emptively to secure their longevity? And what exactly happens? Do the coils open due to excessive
current (like a fuse?) I know there is an issue where the sphere sometimes moves and gets located incorrectly IIRC. I don’t know what causes that, perhaps excessive force? But I am interested in the coil issue. I have no yig issues at the moment, which seems
like a good time to try to prevent it? Eugene W2HX
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
Thank a lot for all your inputs guys! My instruments work very well for their age. I just wanted to make them great again:)
After reading your posts, I figured I will stay away from using any liquid or solvent for PCB cleaning. I would just? use electronics grade gas duster to blow dust off the surface of the boards. Or a small vacuum and a high quality horse hair brush would work better?? ? ?I was under impression that excessive dust would pick up moisture that would damage my equipments. Is that true?
For some very old and dry sticker residue on the front panel, how should I safely remove them? I have Goo Gone but don't know if it's safe for instrument. It's kind of oily.
Thanks again! Calvin?
|
Re: Question about HP3586B and measuring Power.
?
The 3596 was used to measure carrier levels in a multiplexed
system at 75 ohms. The 75 ohm input would be used to terminate a 75 ohm output
directly. The 10k input would have been used to bridge a terminated output to
make the same measurement. One place this would be done would be in a analog
multichannel SSB microwave baseband system.
?
?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 1:20
PM
Subject: [hp_agilent_equipment] Question
about HP3586B and measuring Power.
?
One of the inputs on the 3596B is a 75ohm, another is a 10k
ohm//50pf.
?I can understand with a Voltage across a 75 ohm resistor
how? to get
a power reading. What happens when you switch the unit to
10k ohms.
Does it start measuring Voltage across a 10k, and do that
calculation.
?The question arose when as? practice for
OpenOffice I thought I'd calculate how the power reading
misbehaves, if I
terminate the input with 50 ohms and measure a fixed voltage from 1MHz to
32MHz.
?The 50pf throws a changing impedance in the mix.
In
OpenOffice I combined 50ohms, 10k ohms and the 50pf cap impedance to get a
total impedance over the frequency span.
Then when I went to calculate
power, I didn't know where the machine would be referenced.
?Please
note, my concern is not really to do the measurement this way is is just an
exercise to practice OpenOffice and draw a graph of the error.
|
Question about HP3586B and measuring Power.
One of the inputs on the 3596B is a 75ohm, another is a 10k ohm//50pf. ?I can understand with a Voltage across a 75 ohm resistor how? to get a power reading. What happens when you switch the unit to 10k ohms. Does it start measuring Voltage across a 10k, and do that calculation. ?The question arose when as? practice for OpenOffice I thought I'd calculate how the power reading misbehaves, if I terminate the input with 50 ohms and measure a fixed voltage from 1MHz to 32MHz. ?The 50pf throws a changing impedance in the mix. In OpenOffice I combined 50ohms, 10k ohms and the 50pf cap impedance to get a total impedance over the frequency span. Then when I went to calculate power, I didn't know where the machine would be referenced. ?Please note, my concern is not really to do the measurement this way is is just an exercise to practice OpenOffice and draw a graph of the error.
|
Re: Just purchased HP 3586B--EBAY
Hi George, I don't know. I'll receive the unit this week, I'll see if I bought trouble or if I got a deal.
????????????????????????? Qmavam
|
Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
I keep hearing folks here mentioning water penetration
of circuit board substrates, I think I can help you lay
that myth firmly to rest. The process of making pcb's
has always involved many long steps where the board is
entirely immersed in water or water based solutions.
Between each of these steps, the board is immersed in
pure clean water as the etchants, and plating solutions
are rinsed off of the board.
One poster mentioned a board losing its high insulation
value due to water washing. I think the resistance was
damaged not from the water, but rather from what was in
the water, and not from what soaked into the board, but
rather from what was left behind on the surface of the
board.
Detergents come in two basic types, ionic and non ionic.
Ionic based surfactants are great cleaners, but are also
highly conductive of electricity. If not rinsed fully,
they leave a conductive film. This film is often used
to dissipate static charge from plastic surfaces, like
meter windows.
Also, not all water is equal. Hard waters, and acid
neutralized waters, have high mineral content, which is
in the form of salts. If the water is allowed to
evaporate on the board, it will leave a conductive
residue of a particularly nasty type: one that changes
its resistance with ambient humidity.
-Chuck Harris
Adrian Nicol fenland787a@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
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I understand the desire to try and get the insides to look like new! Like Paul, I guess I have 50+ bits of oldish HP and Tek equipment, but I'm not sure I would do what you intend, especially with water!
I recall that in the 60's through to the early 80's water washable fluxes were not necessarily used and PCBs were often expected to be cleaned with CFCs (ICI Arklone and the like) to get the rosin based fluxes off, so some components were not sealed and not meant to get wet!
Early PCBs often meant for hand assembly did not have a solder resist either so there may be a small risk of moisture penetration of the FR4?
I clean things that need it, suspect areas of PCBs due to contamination, old flux from re-work, switches and so on with IPA, dust I blow off with the shop airline, case parts, yes soap, water and brush (and solvent where safe and needed for sticker residue) but the 'aint broke don't fix' mantra is my guide!
|
Hello,
sorry for being a bit slow to respond here. The Fluke313 Sounds interesting - would you be willing to ship it inside the USA to a freight forwarder?
---
With best regards
Tam HANNA (emailing on a BlackBerry PRIV)
Enjoy electronics? Join 6500 other followers by visiting the Crazy Electronics Lab at Am 15. Oktober 2017 22:25:42 MESZ schrieb "Frank Hughes hp_ciscovss@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" :
?
Hi, I'm having trouble lifting heavy things now (surgery on both rotator cuffs), and the son will soon complete his Computer Engineering degree, move away, and then I'll try to move these and be scolded (again) by the surgeon. Let me know if you want photos. All work, unless noted.
I realize the shipping costs for the heavy things make them less attractive, but trying here first. Located in central Fla.? Bring a chain saw.....
Thanks and 73 Frank Hughes KJ4OLL
HP 6521A 0-1kv DC, 0-200ma, 110vac input $100 plus shipping HP 6268B 0-40vdc, 0-30A, 240vac input $250 plus shipping Harrison 6267A, 0-36vdc, 0-10A, 110 vac input, amp meter does not work. $50 plus shipping Harrison 6367A??0-36vdc, 0-10A, 110 vac input, $50 plus shipping HP 6434B 0-40vdc, 0-25A, 110 vac input $150 plus shipping HP 6237B, +18vdc @ 1A, + 20 VDC @ .5A, -20VDC @ .5A, 110vac input, $50 plus shipping HP 6289A, 0-40vdc, 1.5A, 110vac input $50 plus shipping HP 230B RF power amplifier, 10mhz-500mhz, 110vac input $150 plus shipping HP 334A Distortion Analyzer, 110vac input, $125.00, plus shipping HP 3400A RMS voltmeter, 110vac input, $50 plus shipping HP 11710B Down Converter, 110vac input, $100 plus shipping Fluke 313A Voltage Calibrator, 0-50vcd, 0-2A, 110vac input, needs calibration, $75, plus shipping
?
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Re: Plan to deep cleaning my gear
I had to remove BI/Beckman trimpots from our products at somewhere around 2000 because they would fail after the boards were cleaned. We switched to Bourns, and the problem went away. BI denied that they had a problem, but later they acknowledged that their O-rings were defective as they tried to lure us back.
We used an industrial circuit board cleaner, with a citrus based solvent that was diluted with water. This was followed by an overnight bake in a 105°F dryer.
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-----Original Message----- From: "Mark Goldberg marklgoldberg@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Oct 16, 2017 9:34 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Plan to deep cleaning my gear
I agree with this. I have been involved in many product developments over
40 years ( not for HP) and would not use anything but >99% IPA or DI water,
and only if the parts are rated to be cleaned with these solutions. If you
don't know if they are rated, they may be damaged. Some trimpots,
connectors, etc may not be cleanable without damage. The industry did use
Acetone and Freons, but due to safety reasons, those are much less common
now.
Mark
On Oct 16, 2017 5:48 AM, "Adrian Nicol fenland787a@...
[hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
I understand the desire to try and get the insides to look like new! Like
Paul, I guess I have 50+ bits of oldish HP and Tek equipment, but I'm not
sure I would do what you intend, especially with water!
I recall that in the 60's through to the early 80's water washable fluxes
were not necessarily used and PCBs were often expected to be cleaned with
CFCs (ICI Arklone and the like) to get the rosin based fluxes off, so some
components were not sealed and not meant to get wet!
Early PCBs often meant for hand assembly did not have a solder resist
either so there may be a small risk of moisture penetration of the FR4?
I clean things that need it, suspect areas of PCBs due to contamination,
old flux from re-work, switches and so on with IPA, dust I blow off with
the shop airline, case parts, yes soap, water and brush (and solvent where
safe and needed for sticker residue) but the 'aint broke don't fix' mantra
is my guide!
On Monday, October 16, 2017 5:26 AM, "Calvin Guan guancalvin@...
[hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
Hi,
I am thinking of deep cleaning of my gear. 8566 SA, 8510 VNA, 8515A
S-parameter test set, 8350/83592 sweeper.
I think I am going to remove all PCBs, soak them into clean water, brush
them and dry them with hair dryer as soon as I can.
For delicate microwave assemblies like DC, YIG, YTFM, mixer and ovenized
crystal, and CRT display, I will just brush dirt off the surface and leave
them alone.
For sticky keys, soak the keyboard assembly into IPA, rinse them and dry
them as quickly as I could.
Sounds like a plan?
Thank you!
Calvin
Michael A. Terrell
|
Dave McGuire
Michael A. Terrell