Anybody got a good LCR meter that they want to sell?
Asking for a friend. Wait, not really. A friend did ask but if there is a good HP out there I may buy it and try to sell him my Leader meter. If anyone has a good LCR meter that they'd consider selling, even if it may need some TLC, please reply off-list. Thanks in advance - Dan
|
Re: 16700 software tool sets
Hi Glen, yes I do have the CD for 2.90 . Since those 3 tools don't show up as files on the CD, I didn't know for sure if they were really in there.
That answers my question. Thanks a lot. Your help boosts my confidence factor!
Bill
|
Re: 16700 software tool sets
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 5:28 PM, bdallin2@... [hp_agilent_equipment] <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
Speaking of the 3 toolsets that are not found in files of the 16700A/B CD (B3760-xxx), James Laird-Wah had written that he was looking for a separate installable but that they were actually bundled in the "main depot package".
Can someone tell this dummy (not familiar with Unix) what is refered to as the "main depot package". I am wondering if he is refering to the CD itself. I have 2.70 and would like to update it to the 2.90 but I don't want to lose the Serial tool, B4601B.
Will it still be there after I update?
I would also like to know how I get to and modify /hplogic/licensing/license.dat . I can view it with the file tab of the session manager, but no way to change it.
Thanks a bunch, guys,
Bill
If you update the 16700 series system software using the "re-ignite" process of booting from the software CD it is a completely clean install from scratch. So save any configuration and data files you want to preserve before doing so. The B4600B, B4601B, and B4620B toolsets are installed as part of the standard installation during the re-ignite process. The other toolsets are on the software CD but have to be explicitly installed later. There are a few ways you can access any file on the system if denied access by the standard file permissions. You can boot in single-user mode, although that is a bit of a pain. It's easier to start up an xterm window after the system has finished booting. If I remember right that is by the <Control><Alt><Shift><F8> hotkey combination. Then you can su to root if necessary. The standard password is uh<comma>uhuh (that's a single <comma> character, not spelled out like that). If you have the system configured on a network you can also FTP and Telnet in as root to access files. I have gone through the process of installing 2.90 from scratch and modifying the license.dat file a few times myself. It's not too complicated. Do you already have a good version 2.90 software CD? -Glen
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Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Hi,
I had the same problem and replaced the neon reference with zeners.
This was after two sets of blown fuses and a post for help on this group.? This was back in 2012.? Then the advice was replace with zeners and a warning that the zeners do not provide the same stability as the neon.
I do not remember what zeners I used; there is only the note I put in the manual "2 OCT 12 replaced neon voltage reference with zeners".? I pluralised the zener so more than one.
I checked the voltage transients at turn on and was appalled at the high voltage spike; nearly 130 volts across the 82 volt reference.? Those numbers are burnt into my memory but not the number of zeners used!
Little wonder the fuses blew.
Lesser versions of this event must be occurring in HP 141t analysers across the planet at each turn on.
Once the neon started conducting the voltage was both correct and stable.
It occurred to me afterward that MAYBE I could have paralleled a slightly higher voltage zener with the tube and had the best of both worlds.? No start up spike and the stability of the neon reference.
Did not try so I do not know if it would have worked, perhaps the neon tube would not have struck with the voltage limits imposed by the zeners.? Or the neon would strike but the partly conducting zeners would still introduce noise.
My 141t has been working happily with this mod.
Cheers
Mark
VK2WU
|
Re: 16700 software tool sets
Speaking of the 3 toolsets that are not found in files of the 16700A/B CD (B3760-xxx), James Laird-Wah had written that he was looking for a separate installable but that they were actually bundled in the "main depot package".
Can someone tell this dummy (not familiar with Unix) what is refered to as the "main depot package".? I am wondering if he is refering to the CD itself. I have 2.70 and would like to update it to the 2.90 but I don't want to lose the Serial tool, B4601B.
Will it still be there after I update?
I would also like to know how I get to and modify?? /hplogic/licensing/license.dat .? I can view it with the file tab of the session manager, but no way to change it.
Thanks a bunch, guys,
Bill
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Oh dear I seem to have started something. The comment about rejuvanating neons was annecdotal refered to VR105 and the kind of neon tubes used a relaxation oscillators.
Now yes I suggested UV, and some glasses do block UVB but to quote Wikipedia (not always a reliable source :-))
Common soda lime glass is partially transparent to UVA but is opaque to shorter wavelengths, whereas fused quartz glass, depending on quality, can be transparent even to vacuum UV wavelengths. Ordinary window glass passes about 90% of the light above 350 nm, but blocks over 90% of the light below 300 nm.
Bear in mind for striking you do not necessarily need "free electrons" it may be sufficient that the light reduces the work function of the metal components (or the glass) so electrons can be ripped out by the field. You do not need many electrons to strike the tube.
It was offered as a "try it and see" I would be as interested as others to know if it could be useful.
Alan
G3NYK.
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Ah, but alas, you need the electrons (beta particles), and they
can't go through the glass.
It is probably better to leave the incidental radium sources
alone. 1/4 of us non smoking humans are going to die of cancer
anyway (1/2 of the smokers), no need to up your odds higher than
they already are.
-Chuck Harris
Artek Manuals manuals@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Go down to one of those 2nd hand store with your geiger counter and find a very old
$5 watch with the glow in the dark radium painted hands and dial. Peel of the minute
hand and shrink tube it to the NE-2 :-)
Dave
manuals@...
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
[resend in case it didn't get through email]
Would you guys ease off long enough for me to type a reply? ?:)
Tom,?Dave,
I wish. ?But the glass stops beta. ?The Kr-85 worked?because it was?inside.
Bob, Elliott,
So many parts in series... sometimes brute force is the best solution, but this one puts me off. ?That's just my personal taste; if you want to do it, knock yourself out.
Elliott,
HP used?1% metal film resistors. ?The pot is a weak point for long-term stability, but since it's in a voltage divider the high-leg tempco compensates the low-leg tempco. ?It's also a small fraction of the total divider resistance, so its tempco is a small part of the total.
In a related thread, Alan Melia suggests adding a LED to illuminate the gas tube. ?If the problem was dark effect, brought on by Kr-85 depletion, that should work around it just dandy. ?I hope someone tries it. ?I can't, my ZZ1000 is still working. ?If I can find a flickering neon at home, I'll try to figure out what wavelength LED is the most effective. ?It will be visible light, not?UV; the glass blocks UV. ?(Also external nuclear?radiation.)
Dave Wise?
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Re: Need copy/scan/borrow one page from HP 8673C/D service manual 08673-90022 or 08673-90100
Dave,?
You might see if Artek manuals has a copy. Their scans are of high quality and their prices are extremely reasonable.
DaveD Sent from a small flat thingy
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2017, at 15:37, David Feldman wb0gaz@... [hp_agilent_equipment] < hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
?
Hello --
I'm in need of one page (8-43), a wide-format fold-out containing block diagram BD-1 from either of the above (preliminary for first printing) versions of HP service manual for 8673C/D synthesizer.
The scan on keysight web site is not usable for larger-format images due to severe authoring problems (the later version of the manual 08673-90138 is even worse - they scanned double-wide tabloid form pages into letter format with very poor resolution.)
If you have this manual and would be able to scan, loan or copy (or perhaps even take a series of high-resolution photos that I could stitch together) the requested page, could you drop me an e-mail off-list?
Thank you very much for your assistance,
Dave
wb0gaz@...
|
Re: 141T reference replacement..a cure??
Alpha and beta won't penetrate the glass. ?The Krypton-85 worked because it was inside.
|
Need copy/scan/borrow one page from HP 8673C/D service manual 08673-90022 or 08673-90100
Hello --
I'm in need of one page (8-43), a wide-format fold-out containing block diagram BD-1 from either of the above (preliminary for first printing) versions of HP service manual for 8673C/D synthesizer.
The scan on keysight web site is not usable for larger-format images due to severe authoring problems (the later version of the manual 08673-90138 is even worse - they scanned double-wide tabloid form pages into letter format with very poor resolution.)
If you have this manual and would be able to scan, loan or copy (or perhaps even take a series of high-resolution photos that I could stitch together) the requested page, could you drop me an e-mail off-list?
Thank you very much for your assistance,
Dave
wb0gaz@...
|
Re: 141T reference replacement..a cure??
Howabout using the radioactive element from an old smoke detector (americum?)
Bruce, KG6OJI
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Would you guys slow down long enough for me to type a reply? ?:)
Tom,?Dave,
I wish. ?But the glass stops beta. ?The Kr-85 worked?because it was?inside.
Bob, Elliott,
So many parts in series... sometimes brute force is the best solution, but this one puts me off. ?That's just my personal taste; if you want to do
it, knock yourself out.
Elliott,
HP used?1% metal film resistors. ?The pot is a weak point for long-term stability, but I think that since it's in a voltage divider the high-leg tempco compensates the low-leg tempco.
In a related thread, Alan Melia suggests adding a LED to illuminate the gas tube. ?If the problem was dark effect, brought on by Kr-85 depletion, that should work around it just
dandy. ?I hope someone tries it. ?I can't, my ZZ1000 is still working. ?If I can find a flickering neon at home, I'll try to figure out what wavelength LED is the most effective. ?It will be visible light, not?UV, the glass blocks UV, same as external nuclear?radiation.
Dave Wise?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: hp_agilent_equipment@... <hp_agilent_equipment@...> on behalf of Tom Gardner tggzzz@... [hp_agilent_equipment]
<hp_agilent_equipment@...>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:18 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
?
Or to a supermarket and find the "LoSalt". Replacing part of the NaCl with KCl inevitably includes K40 :)
On 14/07/17 22:15, Artek Manuals
manuals@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
Go down to one of those 2nd hand store with your geiger counter and find a very old $5 watch with the glow in the dark? radium painted hands and dial. Peel of the minute hand and shrink tube it to the NE-2
:-)
Dave
manuals@...
On 7/14/2017 5:06 PM, 'Alan Melia'
Alan.Melia@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
?
The thing is that most "zeners" do not depend on the Zener effect. That only occurs around voltages up to around 4volts, above 5v the process is Avalanche Breakdown , a bit like a gas tube. Then the temperature coefficient of
these two processes have opposite senses so if you combine a true?Zener with a forward diode or an avalanche diode you can minimise the tempco.?The lowest tempcos are usually around 5 to 6v."zeners".
?
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Actually I think the lowest temperature coefficient is around 5V for zener diodes.? The 6.2 V units are very stable also so you don't need as many of those.
When you put zeners in series you invoke the concern of impedance.? Low voltage zeners have a fairly high impedance compared to just a few higher voltage ones.? So if the current through it changes, so will the
voltage.
There are more elegant solutions to this 'problem' but the whole thread is probably more trouble than it's worth.
Let us know your re sults.
Bob
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would provide the lowest drift reference for a pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a tempo of around 0.073%. Compared to the 0.004% of the original reference bulb this is pathetic, however, looking at the dozens of carbon resistors, dried out caps, and of course the?potentiometer that sets the gain (and
remember, new pots are generally not better than 100 PPM unless they are very expensive), I think the drift and tempo from a single zener will be the least of this circuit's problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E
W6EL
?
--
Dave
Manuals@...
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Or to a supermarket and find the
"LoSalt". Replacing part of the NaCl with KCl inevitably includes
K40 :)
On 14/07/17 22:15, Artek Manuals manuals@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
?
Go down to one of those 2nd hand store with your geiger
counter and find a very old $5 watch with the glow in the
dark? radium painted hands and dial. Peel of the minute
hand and shrink tube it to the NE-2 :-)
Dave
manuals@...
On 7/14/2017 5:06 PM, 'Alan
Melia' Alan.Melia@...
[hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
?
The thing is that most
"zeners" do not depend on the Zener effect. That
only occurs around voltages up to around 4volts,
above 5v the process is Avalanche Breakdown , a bit
like a gas tube. Then the temperature coefficient of
these two processes have opposite senses so if you
combine a true?Zener with a forward diode or an
avalanche diode you can minimise the tempco.?The
lowest tempcos are usually around 5 to 6v."zeners".
?
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Friday,
July 14, 2017 9:16 PM
Subject: Re:
[hp_agilent_equipment] Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with
Zener in 141T PSU?
Actually
I think the lowest temperature coefficient is
around 5V for zener diodes.? The 6.2 V units are
very stable also so you don't need as many of
those.
When
you put zeners in series you invoke the concern of
impedance.? Low voltage zeners have a fairly high
impedance compared to just a few higher voltage
ones.? So if the current through it changes, so
will the voltage.
There
are more elegant solutions to this 'problem' but
the whole thread is probably more trouble than
it's worth.
Let
us know your re sults.
Bob
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would
provide the lowest drift reference for
a pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a
tempo of around 0.073%. Compared to
the 0.004% of the original reference
bulb this is pathetic, however,
looking at the dozens of carbon
resistors, dried out caps, and of
course the?potentiometer that sets the
gain (and remember, new pots are
generally not better than 100 PPM
unless they are very expensive), I
think the drift and tempo from a
single zener will be the least of this
circuit's problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E
W6EL
?
--
Dave
Manuals@...
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Go down to one of those 2nd hand store with your geiger counter and
find a very old $5 watch with the glow in the dark? radium painted
hands and dial. Peel of the minute hand and shrink tube it to the
NE-2 :-)
Dave
manuals@...
On 7/14/2017 5:06 PM, 'Alan Melia'
Alan.Melia@... [hp_agilent_equipment] wrote:
?
?
The thing is that most
"zeners" do not depend on the Zener effect. That only
occurs around voltages up to around 4volts, above 5v the
process is Avalanche Breakdown , a bit like a gas tube.
Then the temperature coefficient of these two processes
have opposite senses so if you combine a true?Zener with
a forward diode or an avalanche diode you can minimise
the tempco.?The lowest tempcos are usually around 5 to
6v."zeners".
?
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Friday, July
14, 2017 9:16 PM
Subject: Re:
[hp_agilent_equipment] Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener
in 141T PSU?
Actually
I think the lowest temperature coefficient is around
5V for zener diodes.? The 6.2 V units are very stable
also so you don't need as many of those.
When you
put zeners in series you invoke the concern of
impedance.? Low voltage zeners have a fairly high
impedance compared to just a few higher voltage ones.?
So if the current through it changes, so will the
voltage.
There
are more elegant solutions to this 'problem' but the
whole thread is probably more trouble than it's worth.
Let us
know your re sults.
Bob
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would
provide the lowest drift reference for a
pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a tempo
of around 0.073%. Compared to the 0.004%
of the original reference bulb this is
pathetic, however, looking at the dozens
of carbon resistors, dried out caps, and
of course the?potentiometer that sets the
gain (and remember, new pots are generally
not better than 100 PPM unless they are
very expensive), I think the drift and
tempo from a single zener will be the
least of this circuit's problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E
W6EL
?
--
Dave
Manuals@...
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
?
The thing is that most "zeners" do not depend on
the Zener effect. That only occurs around voltages up to around 4volts, above 5v
the process is Avalanche Breakdown , a bit like a gas tube. Then the temperature
coefficient of these two processes have opposite senses so if you combine a
true?Zener with a forward diode or an avalanche diode you can minimise the
tempco.?The lowest tempcos are usually around 5 to
6v."zeners".
?
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re:
Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Actually I think the lowest
temperature coefficient is around 5V for zener diodes.? The 6.2 V units
are very stable also so you don't need as many of those.
When you put zeners in series
you invoke the concern of impedance.? Low voltage zeners have a fairly
high impedance compared to just a few higher voltage ones.? So if the
current through it changes, so will the voltage.
There are more elegant solutions
to this 'problem' but the whole thread is probably more trouble than it's
worth.
Let us know your re sults.
Bob
On Friday, July 14, 2017 1:00 PM,
"w7qed@... [hp_agilent_equipment]"
wrote:
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would provide the lowest drift reference for
a pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a tempo of around 0.073%. Compared to the
0.004% of the original reference bulb this is pathetic, however, looking at
the dozens of carbon resistors, dried out caps, and of course
the?potentiometer that sets the gain (and remember, new pots are
generally not better than 100 PPM unless they are very expensive), I think the
drift and tempo from a single zener will be the least of this circuit's
problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E
W6EL
?
|
Re: 141T reference replacement..a cure??
UV won't penetrate the glass. ?Try a visible-emitting part.
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Actually I think the lowest temperature coefficient is around 5V for zener diodes.? The 6.2 V units are very stable also so you don't need as many of those.
When you put zeners in series you invoke the concern of impedance.? Low voltage zeners have a fairly high impedance compared to just a few higher voltage ones.? So if the current through it changes, so will the voltage.
There are more elegant solutions to this 'problem' but the whole thread is probably more trouble than it's worth.
Let us know your results.
Bob
On Friday, July 14, 2017 1:00 PM, "w7qed@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" wrote:
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would provide the lowest drift reference for a pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a tempo of around 0.073%. Compared to the 0.004% of the original reference bulb this is pathetic, however, looking at the dozens of carbon resistors, dried out caps, and of course the?potentiometer that sets the gain (and remember, new pots are generally not better than 100 PPM unless they are very expensive), I think the drift and tempo from a single zener will be the least of this circuit's problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E W6EL ?
|
Re: Replace Neon NE-2 with Zener in 141T PSU?
Hi Dave,
In theory, ~18x 4.5v zeners would provide the lowest drift reference for a pure-zener design.
However, a single 82v zener has a tempo of around 0.073%. Compared to the 0.004% of the original reference bulb this is pathetic, however, looking at the dozens of carbon resistors, dried out caps, and of course the?potentiometer that sets the gain (and remember, new pots are generally not better than 100 PPM unless they are very expensive), I think the drift and tempo from a single zener will be the least of this circuit's problems!?
Thanks all for your input!
--E W6EL ?
|
Re: USB Power Probe Calibration software
1.) There are some commercial Power Sensor Calibration packages out there that support the USB Sensors ( PS/CAL, Surecal)? but those are very expensive ??? i am not aware of any free software that allows for a user to access/edit the calibration factors
2.) There are commands on the E Series Power sensors that allow access to the Sensor EEPROM but i am not sure if this is the case for the USB Sensors as well
??? you can try DIAG:SENS:EEPROM ? X with X being the number of bytes to read and see if you get a reading but even if you do than it will take quite a bit of work ? ? to figure out the calibration factors
3.) if your sensor readings are "way off "? than it is very likely that your sensor is damaged ,? try readings at different power levels (+10, -10, -20, -40dBm and see if they are all off by the same magnitude ,? wide dynamic range sensors have two diode detectors and a range switch , depending on the power level either the high or the low range detector is used ,? if only one range is off than this is a indication that one of the detectors is faulty , if both are than you either have a damaged attenuator ( on the H Series sensors ) or a corrupted EEPROM ! ?
On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:06 AM, "pbbob426@... [hp_agilent_equipment]" <hp_agilent_equipment@...> wrote:
?
I have acquired an in-calibration U8485A opt 200 USB thermocouple power sensor and a way out of certified calibration U2001H USB diode power sensor. I also have the latest N1918A Power Panel (free version) and the latest full BenchVue (on trial for 3 more weeks).
Does anyone know about the (probable) software that can read (and write) the calibration data to these probes? Is a "secret' option in one of the packages I have? If not, how can I get it?
Thanks for your help. BobD
|
ebrucehunter