Re: O/T : MESSEMPFANGER [Rohde & Schwarz ESU2 VHF/UHF Test Receiver
It`s a Rohde & Schwarz VHF - UHF MESSEMPFANGER Test Receiver Model ESU 2, Number 252.0010.52 [further numbers are obliterated] Serial Number : 40.00138. [whew!]
I have posted a photo of THE MESSEMPFANGER [Why does this make me think of a German dentist?] on the groap site.
Cheers!.............................................Don Collie jnr.
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----- Original Message -----
From: John Day
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] O/T : MESSEMPFANGER [Rohde & Schwarz ESU2 VHF/UHF Test Receiver
At 04:32 PM 1/18/2007, you wrote:
>As most of the group appear to be back from holiday, I`m mentioning this
>again.
>I have one of these receivers [what a beauty!], but need service
>information, particularly schematics of the various modules : PLEASE, if you
>can help me get copies of these, email me.
Which model?
Or give us a photo of the unit so we can see which one!
John
>The first group member to do this will receive an autographed photo of
>my wife.
>Thankyou........................................Don C.
>
>
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My gosh! I wouldn't want one of those nowadays!
But I suppose that was what I used before the two rack 8620/9845
based versions. I do recall an automated spectrum analysis system
based on 141T's that took up a couple of racks, darned if I can
remember the controller though. Of course this was in the days when
we still had 524 series counters in racks because the powers that be
thought they were more reliable than 5245's. All the gear tended to
be in racks lined up along the wall and we worked on castored
trolley's that rolled between our individual benches and the test
gear.
The system is NOTHING like a 524 which is all tube. You could not give
me one of those.
The system is mostly solid state (it has some BWOs (in the higher
frequency band PIs) and a couple of tubes in the power supply for them
and a CRT) and is largely ICs. In fact, it's a LOT more maintainable
since it has no unobtainable or $$$$$$$$$$ microwave hybrids or ASICs.
Have you tried to fix newer HP stuff? Basically, you have to cannibalize
another unit. I have a 3.7 to 4.2 and 5.9 to 6.5 GHz Communication
Sweep Generator that died. It turns out that HP left a loose screw in
the RF output amp during assembly. The screw was provably NEVER
tightened.... that was clear from a microphotograph I took I complained
bitterly, but they essentially said 'too bad'... it's out of warranty.
They also said I should 'hurry up' and order the replacement module for
ONLY $1400 because the price was about to go up to $2000++. Since then,
I've tried to avoid their newer stuff.
OTOH, I had a Tek RTD-710A fail. The replacement part was about $2500
(an amplifier hybrid), but they said there had been a manufacturing
problem. I took it to the local Tek office and they repaired and
calibrated the unit and returned it to me shipping prepaid... at no
charge... ZERO.
I've thought about changing from the 2100 to a 98xx or PC but rewriting
the SW is just not on my agenda. I mostly use a 8505A these days.
-John
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Re: O/T : MESSEMPFANGER [Rohde & Schwarz ESU2 VHF/UHF Test Receiver
At 04:32 PM 1/18/2007, you wrote: As most of the group appear to be back from holiday, I`m mentioning this
again.
I have one of these receivers [what a beauty!], but need service
information, particularly schematics of the various modules : PLEASE, if you
can help me get copies of these, email me. Which model? Or give us a photo of the unit so we can see which one! John The first group member to do this will receive an autographed photo of
my wife.
Thankyou........................................Don C.
|
At 04:44 PM 1/18/2007, J Forster wrote: But before the 8620 came out I suppose we MUST have used 8690's!
No question about it. I have two of them (one incomplete). There was the
8690 MF and a PI holder for 3 heads. The systems went from about 100 MHz
to 18 GHz. 4x 6 foot racks of stuff.... 2 for the ANA and sweepers and
test sets, 1 for the 2100, display and keyboard, and 1 for the paper
tape reader and 2315 hard drive.
-John My gosh! I wouldn't want one of those nowadays! But I suppose that was what I used before the two rack 8620/9845 based versions. I do recall an automated spectrum analysis system based on 141T's that took up a couple of racks, darned if I can remember the controller though. Of course this was in the days when we still had 524 series counters in racks because the powers that be thought they were more reliable than 5245's. All the gear tended to be in racks lined up along the wall and we worked on castored trolley's that rolled between our individual benches and the test gear. It's funny how much time and effort it took to plot out IF stage characteristics using a Boonton 250-A RX bridge. How glad we were to get rid of the GR 1604 bridges, how nice it was to measure crystal filters without doing it point by point and how totally spoiled we felt when we got things like 5345A's (replacing 5248M's), 8505A's (to replace 8405A's and a whole other pile of stuff) and the 8409C network analyser systems. Hey does anyone out there remember the old HP803A bridge, I think it had a super-regen receiver to use as a detector. Or the 434A Calorimetric power meter? Of course we discoursed on teh 540A transfer oscialltor some time back. Sorry, just feeling nostalgic. John
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Re: HELP!! - 141T / 8555A
Thanks to all who have replied. It seems that the "junction block" I mentioned may be worth concentrating on. The item in question consists of HP part numbers 00181-04101 COVER: HV CONNECTOR, 00181-47101 GASKET: SIDE, 00181-47102 GASKET: CENTER. Its function is as Pete decribes - it is no more than a connection block, to which on one side the HV is connected and the CRT storage mesh backing electrode (6) and the collector mesh (902) and has no electroics inside it. The other side connects these signals to appropriate points at the face of the CRT via a flat transparent ribbon cable, or as Pete calls it a Zebra strip. The internal connection is made by pressing the contacts on the Zebra cable to against contacts inside the box. Of course anything is possible, but the chances of the Zebra cable being broken are very slim, because it is an integral part of the CRT. The CRT is brand new (NOS), so it is most unlikely that either the CRT or this Zebra cable are at fault. It is difficult o check for continuity at the tube end of the Zebra cable, because it is part of the tube.
Assuming that the connection of the Zebra cable at the CRT end is sound, I wonder whether respondents would agree with me, that the "junction box" is the likely culprit. My reason for suspecting the box is that there is no visible change in the appearance of the displayed trace when I disconnect both the CRT storage mesh backing electrode (6) and the collector mesh (902) cables from the pulse circuit board to the box, sugesting that these voltages maybe do not reach the CRT. If there is a consensus that what I am thinking does make some sense and I am not talking through a hole in my head, I will have to bite the bullet and replace the HV tripler and the box. Although the box has is own part number, the HV wire is moulded into it and I cannot just replace the box, without replacing the tripler. This is why I was wondering whether applying some voltage to either of these storage mesh connections should produce a specific result, which would allow me to decide whether or not the connection from the box to the CRT is sound. The other (almost last resort / worst case scenario) would be to put yet another CRT (this one used and of unknown ondition) to see if that will fix it.
Cheers,
Chris
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----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HELP!! - 141T / 8555A Hi Pete having disassembled the block and cleaned mine some time ago I am pretty sure there is no electronics inside it . It is just a interface from wire to the flat transparent ribbon cable. I cleaned it on the understanding that I have had trouble with "zebra strips" in the past where cleaning was the solution. It is of course possible that one of the traces in the ribbon cable has broken on Chris's tube....they are very thin copper. However if I remember he tried another tube which would mean a different ribbon cable ( I think they are attached to the tube) so that negates that idea. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete <peterawson@...> To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...> Sent: 18 January 2007 16:04 Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HELP!! - 141T / 8555A > This problem is tough to get a handle on w/o schematics & I have none. But, > from your shcematics & parts list, what is the P/N > on that "junction" box (I suspect it has some functionality hidden under the > potting compound). I may be able to get some > "inside" help to learn what the gizmo is. > > Pete Rawson > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
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But before the 8620 came out I suppose we MUST have used 8690's!
No question about it. I have two of them (one incomplete). There was the
8690 MF and a PI holder for 3 heads. The systems went from about 100 MHz
to 18 GHz. 4x 6 foot racks of stuff.... 2 for the ANA and sweepers and
test sets, 1 for the 2100, display and keyboard, and 1 for the paper
tape reader and 2315 hard drive.
-John
|
O/T : MESSEMPFANGER [Rohde & Schwarz ESU2 VHF/UHF Test Receiver
As most of the group appear to be back from holiday, I`m mentioning this again.
I have one of these receivers [what a beauty!], but need service information, particularly schematics of the various modules : PLEASE, if you can help me get copies of these, email me.
The first group member to do this will receive an autographed photo of my wife.
Thankyou........................................Don C.
|
At 02:04 PM 1/18/2007, J Forster wrote: Hmmm, I don't have the documentation handy. But it sounds like the
box used for phase-locking an 8620 series sweeper plug-in to a 3555A
generator in the 8409 network analyser systems. I think I still have
an 8409 manual in the archive, I will see if I can find it.
Sounds close. There is another possibility. It might be for locking the
8690 sweeper in the earlier Phase Lock version of the 8410 that uses the
8660 (??) synthesized generator and 2100 computer. Golly, that goes back! That would be 8410A era in the very late 60's or early 70's. By the early 80's the 8409 systems used the 8350 series sweepers, but I do recall in the 70's having units with the 8327 dual test-set switcher (so we could use a single 8411A sampler), two S-parameter test sets and a pair of 8620 sweepers with appropriate plug-ins - one for each test-set. But before the 8620 came out I suppose we MUST have used 8690's! The 8709B synchroniser box had a meter on the front and the mixer box had 3 BNC sockets on the front. One got input from the 3335A and the other two went to an amplifier, possibly a fairly standard 8447 of some sort. Other cables on the back conected the various boxes to permit the sweepers to be locked to the 3335A. Some switching was handled by a 59307 (VHF switch, I think that is the right model) and the HP-IB A-D converter of the same family was used for digitising. Everything was controlled by a 9845B or C controller. Later on we used 9826 (9000 series 226), the 9836 ( 9000 series 236 ) controllers and later again 9000 series 300's. I have the manuals
somewhere, but not handy. I've not seen a counter associated with either
though. It was also sold as a 'synchronizer' but I forget the number. 8709A and B were the synchroniser boxes, 8709A for 20MHz IF, B for the 8410 IF of about 20.278MHz. In the 80's there was a frequency stability analysis system HP produced that used another 59992 series box. I think over the years I have seen 4 or 5 different 59992's, all with different prefixes and bearing no relationship to each other except that they were used in systems, not sold as products. J06-59992A is a time interval calibrator for the 5370A/B counters K10-59992A is a DC backup for a clock K87-59992A is a video amplifier K08-59992A is an HP-IB bus exerciser (At least I think it was HP-IB) K79-59992A 10MHz mixer with high IF gain (used in 10811A/B manual) I think this was part of the 5390A frequency stability (phase noise) test system. I know this has come up before, possibly in this group. These are all the variants I know of, there are quite likely others. John -John
59992A units were also common in several other systems built around
network analysers and 5345A counters. They can be seen in HP
catalogues in the early 80's but generally only as part of systems.
John
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Hmmm, I don't have the documentation handy. But it sounds like the
box used for phase-locking an 8620 series sweeper plug-in to a 3555A
generator in the 8409 network analyser systems. I think I still have
an 8409 manual in the archive, I will see if I can find it.
Sounds close. There is another possibility. It might be for locking the
8690 sweeper in the earlier Phase Lock version of the 8410 that uses the
8660 (??) synthesized generator and 2100 computer. I have the manuals
somewhere, but not handy. I've not seen a counter associated with either
though. It was also sold as a 'synchronizer' but I forget the number.
-John
59992A units were also common in several other systems built around
network analysers and 5345A counters. They can be seen in HP
catalogues in the early 80's but generally only as part of systems.
John
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Re: HELP!! - 141T / 8555A
There is an option 009 Remote Erase Board.
This has a relay and switches Pulse Borad (903) A5 to (904) Storage Mesh.
Operated from the rear panel.
If your unit has this option is the relay contact functional?
I also have a working 141T/8555A system.
141T manual included.
If you do have the PN that would be handy,
On service sheet 2 there is a Conn BLK (P/0 A3) drawn, in it is also a Tripler , output
+6600V. You mentioned that that should be ok.
Only other voltages coming out are(902) +156V and (6) +4.2V both going to the tube.
Jos Raven
PA0AMX
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At 09:04 18-1-2007 -0700, you wrote: This problem is tough to get a handle on w/o schematics & I have none. But,
from your shcematics & parts list, what is the P/N
on that "junction" box (I suspect it has some functionality hidden under the
potting compound). I may be able to get some
"inside" help to learn what the gizmo is.
Pete Rawson
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Re: WG: Mysterious box: K-79-59992A Mixer/IF Amplifier
At 11:13 AM 1/18/2007, Gregor Lasser wrote: Hello,
I have written the following email about 3 month ago, no reply and I also
couldn't find any information on this thing. There must be some experts out
there who know this beast. If not here, where else? ...
I have found another mysterious (at least for me) HP box in my cellar: It's
labeled K-79-59992A Mixer/IF Amplifier. It has 3 BNC connectors on the
front panel labeled IF output / LO /RF and a IF bandwidth switch with range
from 25 Hz to 100KHz. I think it's a accessory for a spectrum analyzer??
Any ideas where it belongs to, what kind of IF is used (frequency), ect. ?
As always, ANY information greatly appreciated. Hmmm, I don't have the documentation handy. But it sounds like the box used for phase-locking an 8620 series sweeper plug-in to a 3555A generator in the 8409 network analyser systems. I think I still have an 8409 manual in the archive, I will see if I can find it. 59992A units were also common in several other systems built around network analysers and 5345A counters. They can be seen in HP catalogues in the early 80's but generally only as part of systems. John Regards from Austria
Gregor Lasser
OE1GLC
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Re: HELP!! - 141T / 8555A
Hi Pete having disassembled the block and cleaned mine some time ago I am
pretty sure there is no electronics inside it . It is just a interface from
wire to the flat transparent ribbon cable. I cleaned it on the understanding
that I have had trouble with "zebra strips" in the past where cleaning was
the solution. It is of course possible that one of the traces in the ribbon
cable has broken on Chris's tube....they are very thin copper. However if I
remember he tried another tube which would mean a different ribbon cable ( I
think they are attached to the tube) so that negates that idea.
Alan G3NYK
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----- Original Message ----- From: Pete <peterawson@...> To: <hp_agilent_equipment@...> Sent: 18 January 2007 16:04 Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HELP!! - 141T / 8555A This problem is tough to get a handle on w/o schematics & I have none. But, from your shcematics & parts list, what is the P/N
on that "junction" box (I suspect it has some functionality hidden under the potting compound). I may be able to get some
"inside" help to learn what the gizmo is.
Pete Rawson
Yahoo! Groups Links
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WG: Mysterious box: K-79-59992A Mixer/IF Amplifier
Hello,
I have written the following email about 3 month ago, no reply and I also
couldn't find any information on this thing. There must be some experts out
there who know this beast. If not here, where else? ...
I have found another mysterious (at least for me) HP box in my cellar: It's
labeled K-79-59992A Mixer/IF Amplifier. It has 3 BNC connectors on the
front panel labeled IF output / LO /RF and a IF bandwidth switch with range
from 25 Hz to 100KHz. I think it's a accessory for a spectrum analyzer??
Any ideas where it belongs to, what kind of IF is used (frequency), ect. ?
As always, ANY information greatly appreciated.
Regards from Austria
Gregor Lasser
OE1GLC
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Re: HELP!! - 141T / 8555A
This problem is tough to get a handle on w/o schematics & I have none. But, from your shcematics & parts list, what is the P/N
on that "junction" box (I suspect it has some functionality hidden under the potting compound). I may be able to get some
"inside" help to learn what the gizmo is.
Pete Rawson
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Re: HP8568B on screen text intensity
thats the way i would do it too and i think the kit is worth $1495
im not familiar with the 8568b but if it dosent have a vga output
then it is a fairly complex project to design a product like that.
"im sure their sales volume is small "100s of units"
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----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Werstiuk
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:19 AM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8568B on screen text intensity
That would be Test Equipment Plus which I pointed out to the group some
months back when we were having a discussion on weak/failing CRTs in 856x
units.
Web site:
<BLOCKED::>
Not inexpensive however.
- Greg
_____
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...] On Behalf Of Didier Juges
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:44 AM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] HP8568B on screen text intensity
Chuck Harris wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> You have a low emission CRT. Most HP CRT's are on RF instruments
> where the operator feels inclined to leave the instrument on 24/7 to
> keep it warmed up and stable for use at a moment's notice. This wears
> out the cathode in the CRT's gun assembly, and makes it become
increasingly
> dim, and blurry.
>
> There are only two fixes for this problem: 1) replace the CRT, something
> that is becoming more and more difficult, and 2) restore/rejuvenate the
> CRT, a process that sometimes extends the useful life of the CRT for a
> good while.
>
There is a third fix: a company (I forgot whom, but they should not be
too hard to google, or John Miles can post it here) makes a color LCD
replacement for the entire display. Pretty neat, and great use of color.
It's not cheap, but worth it, considering what these instruments are
worth in good condition. This replacement makes it better than new!
Didier KO4BB
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Re: HELP!! - 141T / 8555A
At 03:33 PM 18/01/07, you wrote: These two leads go to a small black "junction box", where they meet up with
the 6.6KV accelerator voltage and are channelled to the front of the CRT by
means of a three conductor ribbon cable. As these wires are moulded into
the box and I obviously cannot check the other end of where the ribbon cable
joins the CRT, I have no way of checking whether the little pressure pads
inside the junction box are not doing their job, or whether the problem is
due to some other reason. Suggest compare your junction box continuity with the other unit, might find a part inside like hi voltage diode or resistor etc, I'm not familiar with the devices but seems this step might help pin down a bit more difference etc Regards from Mike Massen Network Power Systems Lab +61 (0) 8 9444 8961 Mb +61 (0) 438 048961 Perth, Western Australia * USA GMC, Opel and Australian VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! * RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Upgraded ignition driver now in long term economy trials * Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars * Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the best oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. * Special Equipment for sale: 60KVA 3-phase UPS with large battery cabinet - $12,000 Web site under construction, Ebay and Oztion Auctions
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I posted this question on the HP list about a week ago and received only one reply, which unfortunately did not fix the problem, so I am trying again, this time with a little more information / test results.
I have a problem with my 141T/8555A spectrum analyzer. The gear works perfect in the conventional mode, but it will not operate in variable persistence mode. When I push the "STD" button, the screen does not change (no flooding, blooming etc)and the trace on the screen is the same as compared to the "CONVENTIONAL" mode. The same happens when I push " FAST". Don Collie has very generously swapped my pulse circuit board in his analyzer and has confirmed that the pulse board is OK. Indeed I have checked all voltages and waveforms / amplitudes on the pulse board and confirmed that they operate as expected. I have also checked all supply voltages and adjusted them to be spot on. The voltages at the various pins on the CRT socket and neck have been checked, including the -12.6V heater voltage for the flood gun and are all within limits. I have not checked the 6.6KV supply, as the unit is fine in the conventional mode. In sheer desperation I replaced the CRT with a brand new one (NOS) I was keeping for a rainy day, (which of course includes a brand new infamous 3 conductor ribbon cable), but it has not solved the problem. In other words everything is fine as a conventional analyzer, but when the "STD or FAST" button is pushed, nothing changes.
I have borrowed a functioning 141T and compared voltages waveforms etc and can find no difference between my unit and the "good" one, even after adjusting the various flood gun related trimpots to produce similar voltages. HOWEVER, I have noticed just a little while ago that disconnecting the CRT storage mesh backing electrode (6) and or the collector mesh (902), results in no change in the trace in any setting regardless of whether it is conventional or variable persistence. This leads me to suspect that perhaps these signals are not reaching the CRT. These two leads go to a small black "junction box", where they meet up with the 6.6KV accelerator voltage and are channelled to the front of the CRT by means of a three conductor ribbon cable. As these wires are moulded into the box and I obviously cannot check the other end of where the ribbon cable joins the CRT, I have no way of checking whether the little pressure pads inside the junction box are not doing their job, or whether the problem is due to some other reason.
I am hoping that someone can suggest what my next moves should be, or whether there is some way of checking the integrity of the junction box. Is there some signal/voltage I can apply to the CRT storage mesh backing electrode (6) and /or collector mesh (902), to check for continuity in the "junction" box?
Any other suggestions would be most welcome,as I am COMPLETELY STUMPED at this stage.
Cheers,
Chris
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HP 54601 vertical deviation trouble fixed
The screen size was reduced by 2 in vertical.(more compressed in the top)
Failure: C608 on the TV video board.(1O?F) By security change also the
1000uF and use good quality 105¡ãc (origin 85¡ãc)
Manufacturing date around 1990...
The IC who drives the vertical coil is ?PC1379c and the datasheet is
easy to find on the web.
AM
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Re: HP8568B CRT replacement question LCD?
(I should've been clearer on that... it's actually shift-g and shift-h
(lowercase). Those are the CLEAR-WRITE and MAX HOLD buttons for the B
trace. Or, use the KSg and KSh commands if you're talking to it remotely.)
-- john, KE5FX
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-----Original Message----- From: hp_agilent_equipment@... [mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:49 PM To: hp_agilent_equipment@... Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B CRT replacement question LCD? Forget the previous question :-) Thanks Didier KO4BB John Miles wrote: Letting the tube run constantly at minimum intensity (low/no grid current)
does prevent burn-in, but it contributes to cathode poisoning. HP warns
against doing that in their manuals, and gives you a way to turn the whole
CRT supply including the filament on and off via those shift-G/H keys.
Aluminized phosphors may or may not have anything to do with burn-in
resistance; I don't know. I've seen plenty of HP and Tek CRTs with severe
burn-in, though.
-- john, KE5FX
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Re: HP8568B CRT replacement question LCD?
Forget the previous question :-)
Thanks
Didier KO4BB
John Miles wrote:
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Letting the tube run constantly at minimum intensity (low/no grid current)
does prevent burn-in, but it contributes to cathode poisoning. HP warns
against doing that in their manuals, and gives you a way to turn the whole
CRT supply including the filament on and off via those shift-G/H keys.
Aluminized phosphors may or may not have anything to do with burn-in
resistance; I don't know. I've seen plenty of HP and Tek CRTs with severe
burn-in, though.
-- john, KE5FX
-----Original Message-----
From: hp_agilent_equipment@...
[mailto:hp_agilent_equipment@...]On Behalf Of arthurok
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:54 PM
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Subject: Re: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B CRT replacement question
LCD?
you think that the crt beam is wearing out the phosphor? "ion
burns???
i thought aluminized tubes were immune to ion burns?
i have found that tek crts last allot longer then hp ones
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miles
To: hp_agilent_equipment@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: [hp_agilent_equipment] Re: HP8568B CRT replacement question
LCD?
>Alternately, consider what it costs to have these instruments repaired
>for business use. We have several (4 at last count) 8566B where I work,
>and the minimum repair cost is a flat $3,500. The CRTs are still OK on
>those because we have consistently been able to enforce the rule of
>turning brightness down when not in use
Don't do that -- make 'em hit shift-G/shift-H!
-- john, KE5FX
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