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Re: HP 3456A repair/restore

 

Getting pretty intermittent time for this, and mostly reading time, rather than bench, I've been studying a bit the calibration procedure (the meter seems to be about 25ppm high at 10V). I searched a bit the archives - though probably not enough - but didn't yet find anything on the issue below.?
?
At p.5-2, 5-14 Adjustment Procedure step h through x, there's a very elaborate procedure for what seems at a rather cursory glance a null adjustment on the meter. How have others done this? I assume there's a simpler procedure folks apply to this step, possibly involving fewer instruments (they want no less than a Fluke 750A, a 731B, a DC Standard, and a null meter). I can't say I have a lot of clarity on what the whole procedure is exactly supposed to accomplish, or how it interacts with the meter ("Null math feature" is involved, for instance) - I haven't gotten enough quality time with this meter. Can anyone with familiarity with the procedure possibly shed some light on this??
?
Thank you,
Radu.?
?
?
Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

Back in the 1990’s we calibrated power sensors, all of them but the 50GHz ones,
we used metal foil HP labels (2 types - long and short) using an other brand printer (about 4”w x 6”h x 8”d) the serial no., and the values would be printed on the label and the charted points. Then we put a clear laminate on top of the label, then installed the new label on the power sensor. I haven’t checked but suspect the blank labels may still be available from Keysight, since they are still calibrating the older sensors.

Don Bitters
Re: Keysight 33522a Binary Arb Files

 

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Hi TomS,

?

Using these instructions and this example, you can create the files you want.

?

You can first create an ARB file with the following GPIB command:

?

This is an example for creating .arb and .barb files by GPIB command.

?

:DATA :ARB :DAC TEST, 0,1,2,3,4,….16383

?

Here, TEST is the name of the file in the 33521A or 33522A's memory.

The integer data values ??must be between 0 and 16383.

?

So, I created the waveform called TEST, which is a ramp between the values ??0 and 16383 by step 1.

?

You must enable this arbitrary sequence to be able to transform it into a file with the *.ARB or *.BARB extension.

Front panel buttons and menus, and USB KEY connected to generator.

?

WAVEFORM

ARB

ARBS

ARBS IN MEMORY

SELECT TEST (use knob to select file TEST)

SELECT ARB

?

To create .ARB and .BARB files

:MMEM:STOR:DATA "USB:/TEST.ARB"

:MMEM:STOR:DATA "USB:/TEST.BARB"

?

TEST.ARB or TEST.BARB are the names of the files on the USB drive; the name may differ from the one saved in the generator's memory, arbitrary sequence must be active to do that.

?

Yves

?

De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de TomS via groups.io
贰苍惫辞测é?: 13 avril 2025 05:48
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Keysight 33522a Binary Arb Files

?

Hey Yves,

First of all let me say thank you for your efforts in creating the files. All known Parameters are found in your barb files. It's Interesting,

that the values I know, are used, Like min max voltage, Sample rate, num channels, file Version, Datapoints.... Unknown values coded as zero or as default values are also found in your files. I can see that the ASCII version have more parameters and I assume that these values should have coresponding values in the barb file structure.

?

It could help having barb files with

- identical settings except of the different Filter types

- identical settings except of the trigger points

and so on. I do only need the barb File as output.

I don't know your Software, therefore l don't know which values you can set. At least all adjustable parameters are highly welcome in order to see how they are coded in the barb structure.

It's just a question, would you be willing?

to create some more barb files with much as possible Parameters? One basic file and the same file, with one? active Parameter?

?

Thanks in advance

TomS

?

TEST.ARB
TEST.ARB
TEST.BARB
TEST.BARB
TEST FILE FOR ONE CH.txt
TEST FILE FOR ONE CH.txt

Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

As explained already, the dimensions of the labels are specially made for HPAK with a reference that I cannot indicate here. They are used for the following sensors :
?

N848X : 28 x 88 mm

848X : 28 x 69,5 mm except 8484A (not measured)

346X : 18 x 95 mm

Of course it's a graphic thermal printer that is used (Brady) and I indicated already the material of the labels.

BTW the result of Lou's job seems to be like an original one! Congrats.
Re: 8566B Performance Verification with 8620C

 

You might as well upload to both unless someone complains :)
?
Another option for a sweeper is the synthesised HP 83752A from the 1990s. These only cover up to 20 GHz but they can be found for sensible money sometimes. I've got one here and the internal levelling is remarkably good up to 20 GHz. Much better than the datasheet.
?
Many years ago I used it to check my HP 8566B analyser using external levelling up to about 10 GHz using a resistive splitter and I did the external levelling with a power meter. I found that the HP 8566B was much flatter than the spec. It was remarkably good from about 40 MHz to 2 GHz on the first range. Above 10 GHz I just connected the 83752A to the input of the 8566B using a really short Gore cable (after checking it with a power meter) and this gave good results to about 15 GHz. Again, much better than the spec limits. I didn't bother checking it above 15 GHz. This was quite a few years ago though. I stopped using the 8566B about 6/7 years ago after upgrading to something a bit more modern. Otherwise I would have checked it more recently.?
?
It's easy to get in a muddle with the Yig preselector tuning feature on the 8566B and this can mess up the flatness. I found I got the best results with the factory default settings. Whoever used the analyser before me (I purchased it as an ex-rental from Microlease in about 2010) had really messed up the Yig tuning using the front panel buttons and this had put some deep dips in the frequency response. Fortunately, the factory default settings proved to be very good once I reset it.
Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

I have been using GALVA for many years to make custom labels. The results are limited by your imagination and the print stock that you can buy. An example of a replacement of a damaged label for a friend's 8484A. The rendering of the attached screenshot may not look so great but the printed version is very sharp and looks just like the label on the sensor.


image.png

Regards

Lou
VK3ALB


On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 6:49?AM Steve - Home via <sw.krull=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
They are orderable from Keysight, $4.15 each. I haven’t tried to order any as I don’t have a traceable way to generate the data.

Steve



> On Apr 13, 2025, at 3:08?PM, Razvan Popescu via <yo8ryr=gmx.net@groups.io> wrote:
>
> ?I have the older and smaller models that can only print up to 18mm. I
> see the new ones can print up to ~1" but I guess the tapes are the 24mm
> ones.
>
> I wanted to get something as close as possible to the original ones that
> fit perfectly between the edges of the backside cover.
>
> I tried a spreadsheet that has the printable area exactly the size I
> need and I printed it on a slightly larger label and after that I cut it
> precisely to the size needed. It does not look good since it is on
> thermal label paper but it is OK until I find something better.
>
> Another option is to add a tag near the connector and the sticker with
> the calibration values will be attached to the tag.
>
> I would be interested if someone knows anyone in a cal lab to know how
> they do it, what labels they use, what printers they use...
>
> In the Agilent N8480 User's Guide there is a part number for the
> backside cal table: N8481-84305 but of course I guess Keysight will not
> sell it now...
>
>> On 13/04/2025 21:40, Sergey Kubushyn via wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Apr 2025, Razvan Popescu via wrote:
>>
>> P-touch can print up to 1" wide tape, at least those 2 printers I have here
>> can.
>>
>> You can't create such a label with the printer itself but it is easy using
>> their application that allows you to create label with arbitrary fonts and
>> graphics. It can make a label with text ACROSS the tape, not along it.
>>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

They are orderable from Keysight, $4.15 each. I haven’t tried to order any as I don’t have a traceable way to generate the data.

Steve

On Apr 13, 2025, at 3:08?PM, Razvan Popescu via groups.io <yo8ryr@...> wrote:

?I have the older and smaller models that can only print up to 18mm. I
see the new ones can print up to ~1" but I guess the tapes are the 24mm
ones.

I wanted to get something as close as possible to the original ones that
fit perfectly between the edges of the backside cover.

I tried a spreadsheet that has the printable area exactly the size I
need and I printed it on a slightly larger label and after that I cut it
precisely to the size needed. It does not look good since it is on
thermal label paper but it is OK until I find something better.

Another option is to add a tag near the connector and the sticker with
the calibration values will be attached to the tag.

I would be interested if someone knows anyone in a cal lab to know how
they do it, what labels they use, what printers they use...

In the Agilent N8480 User's Guide there is a part number for the
backside cal table: N8481-84305 but of course I guess Keysight will not
sell it now...

On 13/04/2025 21:40, Sergey Kubushyn via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2025, Razvan Popescu via groups.io wrote:

P-touch can print up to 1" wide tape, at least those 2 printers I have here
can.

You can't create such a label with the printer itself but it is easy using
their application that allows you to create label with arbitrary fonts and
graphics. It can make a label with text ACROSS the tape, not along it.
Board 5062-1984

 

I have this 5062-1984 option board in a HP 8591A and would like info on it?
?
Thanks, Andrew
Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

I have the older and smaller models that can only print up to 18mm. I
see the new ones can print up to ~1" but I guess the tapes are the 24mm
ones.

I wanted to get something as close as possible to the original ones that
fit perfectly between the edges of the backside cover.

I tried a spreadsheet that has the printable area exactly the size I
need and I printed it on a slightly larger label and after that I cut it
precisely to the size needed. It does not look good since it is on
thermal label paper but it is OK until I find something better.

Another option is to add a tag near the connector and the sticker with
the calibration values will be attached to the tag.

I would be interested if someone knows anyone in a cal lab to know how
they do it, what labels they use, what printers they use...

In the Agilent N8480 User's Guide there is a part number for the
backside cal table: N8481-84305 but of course I guess Keysight will not
sell it now...

On 13/04/2025 21:40, Sergey Kubushyn via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2025, Razvan Popescu via groups.io wrote:

P-touch can print up to 1" wide tape, at least those 2 printers I have here
can.

You can't create such a label with the printer itself but it is easy using
their application that allows you to create label with arbitrary fonts and
graphics. It can make a label with text ACROSS the tape, not along it.
Re: 8566B Performance Verification with 8620C

 

Regarding older 8566 performance verification procedures: for those interested I have uploaded my scan of the 8566A performance verification. Fun to compare equipment requirements to the well known 8566B performance verification manual floating around.
?
It looks like the 8566A service material was released in four volumes, none of which appear to have separate part numbers, but rather share the same part number (either 08566-90001 or 08566-90006 ?). I have uploaded Volume 2 of this series which includes the Performance Tests as HP-8566A-Operating-and-Service-Manual-Volume-Two-Performance-Tests.pdf in the "?8566A, 8566B Spectrum Analyzer " directory.
?
I have also uploaded my scan of the 8566B performance verification (08566-90168) as the freebie one floating around has numerous gross text replacement errors. The one with errors is currently in the 8566 folder, so if people feel my new upload is unnecessary I will remove it, but you can still view it on my archive.org account ( ).?
?
I also have a handful of other HP manuals I've scanned and processed that I would like to upload. Should I upload here or maybe on the HPAK wiki or both?
?
-Michael Bierlein
Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025, Razvan Popescu via groups.io wrote:

P-touch can print up to 1" wide tape, at least those 2 printers I have here
can.

You can't create such a label with the printer itself but it is easy using
their application that allows you to create label with arbitrary fonts and
graphics. It can make a label with text ACROSS the tape, not along it.

I already checked the Brother printers and labels. I already have 4
Brother printers including 2 P-touch but these are for small labels. I
see my P-touch can only print max 18mm wide. I also have a QL-570 model
but I cannot find any laminated labels for it. All these printers are
thermal type printers.

If someone knows how the HP printed their labels for the power sensors
after calibration it would be very interesting.

On 13/04/2025 15:31, Adrian Godwin via groups.io wrote:
I don't know those labels but I believe Brother P-touch laminate the
labels. The actual process is some sort of sublimation so the finished
label is not subject to thermal damage. It seems unlikely, given the
history that these would be the actual labels used but you may be able
to reproduce them this way. You'd need a label printer capable of
bitmapped image reproduction rather than one with a fixed font.
_._,_._,_
---
*
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
*
Re: HP - a summary of what went wrong.

 

Yes, that book is great. The chapter where Carly is late for dinner at Bill Hewlett's is priceless and tells volumes about the differences between their two management styles. There is also a story about how they lost $4M on a project where Bill is in on the meeting where they discuss?the project. You have to read the book to see how that story ended.?

I am sure that Bill and Dave have rolled over several times due to what their successors have done with their company.?
The most ridiculous one is we as private engineers or small companies can not buy instruments from Keysight. I had an account for years where I could buy parts and they would bill me. What they don't realize is that Keysight has lost the formula where people like us who probably also work for big companies have a huge influence on what instruments we will recommend. Unfortunately?for them I can no longer recommend Keysight as the vendor of choice, just like Rohde & Schwarz.

Sam Reaves
ARS W3OHM
Staff Scientist Andritz Rolls Global Research Center (RETIRED)
Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

I attached 4 pictures with the labels. These are from the late 80's.
Are you sure they are made with a plotter? Also they seem to have a
plastic foil on top, non-glossy one on my labels. I have one sensor
which part of the foil got damaged in time and under that non-glossy
layer you can see a glossy plastic foil.

On which sensors you used 95 x 28 mm labels? I guess it was the 8484A?
The labels on the sensors in the photos attached to this email have 57 x
28 mm.

Another long label is on the 346x Noise Sources.

I looked on the Brady website and I didn't find any labels that have a
similar size so I guess you need to ask them for a custom size to be
manufactured...

On 13/04/2025 17:42, F1EKU via groups.io wrote:
For the picture sent, we can see easily that it was printed (plotted)
with a plotter from the 747XA family.
Few years ago (2020's), it was used a Brady printer with Polyester
labels specially made (95 x 28 mm) for HPAK.

Power_Sensor_Label_2.jpeg
Power_Sensor_Label_3.jpeg
Power_Sensor_Label_4.jpeg
Power_Sensor_Label_1.jpeg

Re: Power Sensor Calibration Labels

 

For the picture sent, we can see easily that it was printed (plotted) with a plotter from the 747XA family.
Few years ago (2020's), it was used a Brady printer with Polyester labels specially made (95 x 28 mm) for HPAK.
Re: Tool to remove "fancy" BNC nut (0590-1251)

 

On 2025-04-13, at 17:15, Peter Gottlieb via groups.io <hpnpilot@...> wrote:

A 9/16" should work as the nut measures 0.5625" but sockets tend to have their own beveled edges so you would need to modify a socket by grinding it down on a belt sander beyond the bevel in order to get a good grip.
Can’t help with SAE dimensions, and I didn’t try this on these BNC nuts, but I often have a lot of success with cheap tubular socket wrenches:



I’m sure Amazon has those, too.

Grü?e, Carsten
Re: HP 3456A repair/restore

 

The BAMA library has a manual version with the missing pages - the "high res" version. But that's the only one. So for anyone looking for those, that's where to find them.?
Re: Tool to remove "fancy" BNC nut (0590-1251)

 

I've always used an adjustable wrench with pristine jaws and a sheet of paper cut out to not mar the front panel, then press down so the wrench doesn't slip up the rounded edges.? It's always worked for me as these nuts tend to never be torqued down much.

A 9/16" should work as the nut measures 0.5625" but sockets tend to have their own beveled edges so you would need to modify a socket by grinding it down on a belt sander beyond the bevel in order to get a good grip.? You MUST use a hex rather than 12 point socket!? Use the piece of paper regardless to avoid panel marks.

Peter

On 4/13/2025 11:03 AM, vk2bea via groups.io wrote:
Does anyone have a tip to remove the BNC nut described in the manual as a "fancy" BNC nut? HP part ?(0590-1251)
This is on the front panel of the HP5334B counter and I want to be careful not to mar the surface.
None of the sockets I have seen to fit. I thought a 9/16" would work but it doesn't.
Re: Tool to remove "fancy" BNC nut (0590-1251)

 

On 2025-04-13 11:03 AM, vk2bea via groups.io wrote:
Does anyone have a tip to remove the BNC nut described in the manual as a "fancy" BNC nut? HP part ?(0590-1251)
This is on the front panel of the HP5334B counter and I want to be careful not to mar the surface.
None of the sockets I have seen to fit. I thought a 9/16" would work but it doesn't.
A 14mm or 15mm socket, perhaps?

Steve Hendrix
Tool to remove "fancy" BNC nut (0590-1251)

 

Does anyone have a tip to remove the BNC nut described in the manual as a "fancy" BNC nut? HP part ?(0590-1251)
This is on the front panel of the HP5334B counter and I want to be careful not to mar the surface.
None of the sockets I have seen to fit. I thought a 9/16" would work but it doesn't.
?
Re: HP 3456A repair/restore

 

I just purchased the Artek manual(s), which I assume (99.99% certain...) have the missing TOC pages. In good part just for supporting them.... Hopefully they get delivered to me expeditiously.?
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