Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
And that, my dear sir, is exactly why I wrote the program.
Please contact me off? list.? I didn't exactly design some of this for public consumption (mostly the Embarcadaro stuff), and you'll need the libraries I've created.
Haven't tried to rehost it, so it'll be an experience.
madyn@...
Harvey
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On 3/18/2025 4:59 PM, David McQuate via groups.io wrote:
I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used Visual Studio. ?I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7. ?I use SCAD for 3D printing and also for general 3D modeling. ?Your program seems like a natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that done by JLCPCB. ?Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
David
On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project. It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else.
It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own.
How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)?
Harvey
ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture.
On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via?groups.io?wrote:
I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand. I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????--?????John?Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
HP 8673D synthesized generator - need help identifying the two PC boards attached to A1A11 power amplifier
I'm on (the other) HP 8673D repair project now. This one never worked in the time I have owned it, and I'd been storing it as a parts mule, but decided (now that I have some experience with disassembly and repair) that I'd like see if I can bring it back to life.
Primary symptom: Very low output (rarely approaching 0 dBm, at some frequency ranges much less), unleveled indicator (as the available RF would never reach the setpoint of the ALC circuit), yet never an "unlocked" indication.
Fault isolation so far: The service manual vol 2 08673-90022 (in section BD5) walks through several tests; it turns out RF level (so-called "baseband") 2.0-6.6 GHz out of YTO (then through a bias tee, modulator for pulse modulation, and a high pass filter) measures with adequate RF on all YTO frequencies (spec is >= 10 dBm; this is satisfied with about +18 dBm at bottom end of range and staying above +10 dB to the end of the range.) This signal is sent to the YTM assembly; output from YTM is very low and fluctuates widely across frequencies. The service manual details RF level tests at the high pass filter output (what goes to the power amplifier which is the start of the YTM system) and RF level tests at output of the YTM (this output is very low and uneven across frequencies, resembling output of the 8673D overall, so fault is in this area.
Further attempt at fault isolation: The YTM assembly includes a power amplifier (A1A11, part number in my (preliminary) manual is 08673-67004. The popwer amplifier in this 8673D part number is 08673-67011. The manual provides zero detail (that I can find) detailing expected output of the power amplifier that feeds the YTM itself. As that connection was SMA, I connected A1A11 power amplifier output (via attenuation) to the power meter and found ~0 dBm output (varying widely across frequencies), and after a few minutes in this configuration, A1A11 amplifier output went to zero and never returned.
Unsuccessful search for details in service manual: Attached are photos of the A1A11 amplifier and two associated PC boards, part numbers 08673-60140 (provides DC to the A1A11 power amplifier via pins E1 through E12) and 08673-60139. The DC test points on 08673-60140 (upper/larger board in photo) expect +5, -3.5, -6.5 and -9 VDC; I measured these (in system while running) at +5, -6.5, -6.5 and -9 (+/- some mV), so the -3.5V test point's voltage was incorrect.
I'm not able find schematics of either board in the (large/heavy) service manual, hence my posting here - does this ring a bell with anyone that may have encountered these modules in another context, has worked on an 8673D in this area, or has seen these mentioned in the service manual volume 2 (document number 08673-90022)?
In modern times, getting more gain and power at 2.0-6.6 GHz would not be at all difficult, however, the YTM is sensitive to the level of RF input, and it appears visually that the circuitry around the A1A11 amplifier is at least in part allowing the CPU to control output from A1A11 to keep drive within some (undocumented) acceptable level window.
Thanks for any clues!
Dave
|
Re: where to find HP 8511A,B and Antenna Measurement System Performance,Verification Software.
Hi John,
I uploaded the "Installation and Getting Started Guide" to the files
area. I don't have the software. I was looking for it a few years ago
but without any luck. I think it was delivered on a CD-ROM from what I
see in the guide.
Please upload it to the files area if you manage to get a copy.
Thanks,
Razvan
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On 18/03/2025 22:18, John Griessen via groups.io wrote: ?I might be able to get an HP 8511A...
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
M3.5 is a standard size
3.5x0.6? the odd one is 3.5x0.5 and yes it exists I have a die
for it and the 0.6 ( i use the 0.5 in music instrument
repair-silly saxophones).....0.7 never existed nor should it.
this is not complicated.....worst case make the screws easy way
- ebay is your friend....punch in M3.5,? the standard pitch is
0.6? see the attachments I sent earlier...most likely more than
you wanted to know on comparisons...the machinerys handbook is
next good resource..way too much info to wade into.
搁别苍é别
On 3/18/25 12:05 PM, Jim Adney via
groups.io wrote:
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On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 09:59 PM, 搁别苍é别 wrote:
A #6 screw is almost exactly 3.5 mm diameter.
?
0.6 pitch comes out to just over 42 per inch.
?
0.7 pitch comes out to just over 36 per inch, but M3.5 x 0.7
does not appear to be a real option.
--
Jim Adney
Madison, WI USA
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
On 3/18/25 14:53, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally? Don't grab it, just try it some and see how wide the eyepiece viewing angle is... When it's narrow you get neck strain quickly keeping your eyes just perfectly located.
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
On 3/18/25 14:53, Radu Bogdan Dicher via groups.io wrote: Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally? Fine except for trinocular head is good to have.
|
where to find HP 8511A,B and Antenna Measurement System Performance,Verification Software.
I might be able to get an HP 8511A...
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 03:34 PM, Philip Freidin wrote:
And if you do get a trinocular you will be real
disappointed to discover that when you enable the camera optical path,
you lose the stereo vision path.
?
This is not true for all trinocular microscopes, it depends on the model. On mine, both the eyepieces and the camera port are always active at the same time. AmScope calls it "Simul-Focal". I believe you do lose some brightness from that, but I guess that means I just turn up the lighting.
?
Unless you are planning to make youtube videos, don't pay extra for a
trinocular microscope.
?
The cost of a trinocular head is negligible compared to the cost of the microscope. At most $40 of a $600+ expense. For me, having the flexibility in the future was more important than saving less than $40.
?
I did a quick scan of Amazon, and it seems
all the boom arm stereo microscopes are trinocular.
?
I recommend buying from a more specialized source, that way you can get exactly what you want, and actually get what you ordered. (For example, on AmScope's site, you can get a binocular boom arm stereo microscope, if that's what you want.)
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
I use C++ a lot, usually with QtCreator, though I have previously used Visual Studio. ?I have Eagle 7.5, 7.6, and 7.7. ?I use SCAD for 3D printing and also for general 3D modeling. ?Your program seems like a natural for designing 3D printed cases for PC boards, and also for creating parts placement files for automated PC builds, such as that done by JLCPCB. ?Would you be OK giving me a copy of the source?
David
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2025-03-18 13:14, Harvey White wrote:
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.? It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library. As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else. It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own. How?are?you?with?C++?(Embarcadero?C++?community?version)? Harvey ps:?I?can?attach?a?picture. On?3/17/2025?11:29?PM,?David?McQuate?via?groups.io?wrote:
I'd like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On?2025-03-17?20:01,?Harvey?White?wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????--?????John?Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
OFFICIAL
Thanks for that info.
M3.5 seems to be as rare in Australia as 6-32. I used to have boxes of 4BA stuff, but they have long disappeared in about 10 house moves Ove the last 30 od dyears.
I have ordered some 6-32 screws, counter sunk and pan head,? I had to order 25 of 1 and 15 of the other to make up ?the minimum $10 order, then pay 11 dollars freight, probably would
have been cheaper from the US.
Next I just need to get a socket for the GPIB interface, which also seems hard to get , at least in reasonable quantities
?
|
Wayne Eckert BEng
Observing Operations Hub Sydney
M:0409986684
|
|
T: 02 92961668
Unit 9 ?111 Moore Street
Leichhardt NSW 2040
wayne.eckert@... |
|
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of george edmonds via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2025 11:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
?
Hi all
The threads you are looking for are M3.5, this is a little used thread except in the UK where it is used by electricians to hold switch face plates in place, it is actually very close to 4BA which were the original screws used..
HP used this thread in place of 6-32 when NATO and the US military required all threads to be ISO Metric. The tapping hole diameter is almost the same for 6-32 and M3.5, it is predominately used in case work only, particularly castings.
Hope this helps
G Edmonds
On Tuesday 18 March 2025 at 10:07:20 GMT, Joel Setton via groups.io <setton@...> wrote:
If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored
stainless steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware vendors have them, one of them is here
:
(no affiliation with them).
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
Any input on the Nikon microscope (SMZ645) I may be able to grab locally??
I’d like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On 2025-03-17 20:01, Harvey White wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope. I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well. I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place. if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD.? That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part. that?might?help?a?bit. Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle. Harvey On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via??wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via??<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
Re: microscope / high magnification camera options for soldering, faults, and other examinations/inspections
I wrote a C++ program that disassembles the .brd file for a project.? It creates an OpenSCAD document that places models of the parts onto the board, giving you a board visualization.? It can handle internal and external fillets on the board edges. Depending on which parts you use, you may or may not need to model some specific parts (in OpenSCAD) to build up your own library.
As part of the process, the program has to read and calculate the part placement? from the .brd file.? I know it does EAGLE 7.7, not sure about what else.
It was originally based on NopHead's libraries, but I got errors I couldn't track down (not documented), and just bagged it and wrote my own.
How are you with C++ (Embarcadero C++ community version)?
Harvey
ps: I can attach a picture.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 3/17/2025 11:29 PM, David McQuate via groups.io wrote:
I’d like to know more about the program that allows you to model the PC board in SCAD, and find the XY of any part.
Thanks!
David
On 2025-03-17 20:01, Harvey White wrote:
I use an American Optical (because it was cheap) and found a nice heavy stand to hold it up.? I have a fiber optic ring light on the microscope.
I?find?that?an?auxiliary?light?can?help?to?illuminate?from?the?side?as?well.
I would build a board holder that allows you to position any part of a board under the microscope without moving the microscope. How complicated you make that little board holder is up to you. Maybe move manually and lock into place.
if you were building boards by hand, and using EAGLE, then I can show you a program that models the PC board in OpenSCAD. That same parsing routine can find the XY of any part.
that?might?help?a?bit.
Ideally, you want to move the board in X and Y, then rotate for the best soldering angle.
Harvey
On?3/17/2025?2:59?PM,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io?wrote:
Thank?you?all,?great?input.
From these choices, it sounds like a stereo microscope on a boom would be ideal. I do tend to work on all sorts of positions and oftentimes spill outside of the desk/bench. Also, some of the boards I need to examine are too large to fit under a microscope with a stand.? I'm not sure exactly how well this relative freedom to move the microscope around works. But the idea to have that available is very exciting - I'm really tired of using my multiple hand magnifiers with their own lights and often another flashlight on the other hand. My eyes get terribly strained with that setup.
Probably a stupid question, but I know nothing on the "stereo microscope" topic - are these working well for people wearing glasses?
Thank?you.
Radu.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:29 AM John Griessen via groups.io <> <john@...> wrote:
????On?3/17/25?07:59,?Dave?McGuire?via?groups.io?<>?wrote:
????>?On?3/17/25?00:02,?Radu?Bogdan?Dicher?via?groups.io
????<>?wrote:
????>>?Having?done?enough?(red)?eye?cracking?smd?soldering?jobs?or
????inspections?in?case?of?suspected?failure?(cold?joints,?etc.),?I've
????>>?decided?to?invest?a?bit?on?a?better?optical?setup.
????>>?There's?plenty?of?cameras?on?the?marketplaces?and?retailers?out
????there,?but?what?are?some?better?choices??Good?experiences?with
????>>?some?specific?models?
????>>?Also,?what?to?watch?for??Specs,?minimal?magnification?that
????crosses?over?a?good?threshold?
????>>?I?have?a?couple?of?large?screens?at?my?bench?-?I'm?thinking
????this?will?be?best?done?by?shooting?this?over?to?one?of?those.?USB,
????>>?HDMI?...
????>>?Lighting/LEDs?making?a?significant?difference?
????>>?Thank?you?for?your?input.
????>
????>????The?Mantis?by?Vision?Engineering.
????>
????>????On?the?prototyping?bench?I?moved?from?a?Nikon?SMZ-1?with?an
????after-market?LED?ring?light?to?a?1st-generation?Mantis?about?ten
????>?years?ago,?and?upgraded?to?a?Mantis?Elite?last?year.
????>
????>????The?Nikon?is?a?binocular?inspection?microscope?with?great
????optics?(typical?of?Nikon)?and?excellent?overall?performance.??I?had
????>?an?opportunity?to?try?out?a?Mantis?when?visiting?a?customer's
????lab.??I?was?astonished?by?its?capabilities?and?purchased?one
????>?immediately.
????>
????>????My?upgrade?to?the?Mantis?Elite?last?year?was?a?similarly
????impressive?thing.
????>
????>????Two?important?considerations?are?binocular?optical?paths?and
????lighting.
????>
????>????Binocular?optics?are,?IMO,?absolutely?required?for?SMT?work.
????>
????>????Lighting?is?next.??People?often?skimp?on?this?and?use?a
????random?desk?lamp?or?whatever?happens?to?be?lying?around,?but?a?proper
????>?lighting?system?makes?all?the?difference.??There?are?cheap
????aftermarket?LED?right?lights?that?are?surprisingly?effective;?this
????>?suggests?that?the?lighting?really?isn't?that?difficult?a?problem
????to?solve.??The?key?is?360-degree,?oblique,?even?lighting?to
????>?eliminate?shadows.??(lighting?is?built-in?on?the?Mantis?microscopes)
????>
????>???????????????-Dave
????Hi?Radu,
????I've?got?Greenough?scopes?(binocular)?by?Olympus?and?Vision
????Engineering?(precursor?to?Mantis),?and?fiber?light?rings?and?sources
????to?sell.
????The?Vision?Engineering?ones?are?kind?of?large,?but?trying?an
????Olympus??Greenough?would?be?painless?--?you?could?return?it?if?not
????liking?it.
????When?I?assemble?SMT?boards?I?use?a?Greenough?on?a?boom?that?lets
????me?move?with?fine?dials?in?X?and?Y?(and?of?course?Z?for?focus).
????I've?also?tried?the?Vision?Engineering?and?it?would?probably?be?a
????speedup?tool,?but?Ive?not?afforded?enough?bench?top?space?to?use
????one?effectively?yet.
????Also?have?Nikon?SMZ-7?and?a??Vision?Engineering?Greenough?for?sale.
????Booms?to?hold?them?are?super?heavy,?so?looking?locally?makes?the
????most?sense.
????I?agree?with?Dave,?that?if?you?want?to?do?prototypes?your?speed
????and?quality?will
????improve?drastically?with?stereo?vision?--?it?puts?your?"there"?in
????the?micro?world...??Also?you?will?notice?more?since?flat?view
????onscreen?doesn't?translate?to?3D?in?your?mind?well.
????The?large?screens?might?be?OK?for?some?things,?but?not?for?active
????seeing?when?looking?for?tiny?cracks,?missing?solder,?adequate
????solder?paste,?etc.
????Now?to?get?busy?cleaning?and?photographing?the?ones?I?mentioned...
????-- ????John Griessen
????Albuquerque?NM
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 09:59 PM, 搁别苍é别 wrote:
A #6 screw is almost exactly 3.5 mm diameter.
?
0.6 pitch comes out to just over 42 per inch.
?
0.7 pitch comes out to just over 36 per inch, but M3.5 x 0.7 does not appear to be a real option.
--
Jim Adney
Madison, WI USA
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
I just noticed that gauge I linked to is 60 degree metric, and 55 degree imperial (whitworth), so that's not a good "covers both common systems" thread gauge - that said, I did run into stupid Whitworth threads on some hydraulic fittings in the last few months, so it's ideal to have all 3 gauges on hand - 60 degree metric, 60 degree imperial, and 55 degree whitworth - you never know what crazy thread you might run into randomly.
I have the screw from an HP8664A, which I assume will be similar. Pan head, torx drive.
I checked it with various thread gauges, and if you're not looking closely (i.e. under a magnifier or microscope) you'd be inclined to say it's 42TPI, but under the microscope I can see 42TPI isn't correct - the screw gets every so slightly out of sync with the thread gauge over the length of the screw.
Checking the metric gauges, it meshes exactly with 0.6mm, so 搁别苍é别 is correct - it must be 3.5mm 0.6mm/thread
You should get yourself a set of thread gauges - they come in handy for all sorts of stuff, and they're not that expensive. $10 gets you one with both metric and imperial. They tend to have them in the hardware store if you want to go to a local brick and mortar store to get them, but they can be hard to find - usually tucked away in a dusty corner of the hand tool section somewhere.
Link here as an example, not an endorsement of this particular gauge (though the ones I have are very similar, but came with a tap and die set, and I got another set when I bought 'fishtail' gauges for threading on the lathe with a single point threading tool):
here is a thread
comparison and pitch charts for future info
搁别苍é别
On 3/18/25 9:21 AM, Cubdriver via
wrote:
For what it's
worth, here in the U.S. McMaster-Carr has M3.5 x 0.6 pitch
screws?
?
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: setton@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 06:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for
screws on 8656 Siggen
?
If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the
hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with
black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored stainless
steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility
with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
?
This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which
is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware
vendors have them, one of them is here :
(no affiliation with them).
I hope this helps !
Joel Setton
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
I have the screw from an HP8664A, which I assume will be similar. Pan head, torx drive.
I checked it with various thread gauges, and if you're not looking closely (i.e. under a magnifier or microscope) you'd be inclined to say it's 42TPI, but under the microscope I can see 42TPI isn't correct - the screw gets every so slightly out of sync with the thread gauge over the length of the screw.
Checking the metric gauges, it meshes exactly with 0.6mm, so 搁别苍é别 is correct - it must be 3.5mm 0.6mm/thread
You should get yourself a set of thread gauges - they come in handy for all sorts of stuff, and they're not that expensive. $10 gets you one with both metric and imperial. They tend to have them in the hardware store if you want to go to a local brick and mortar store to get them, but they can be hard to find - usually tucked away in a dusty corner of the hand tool section somewhere.
Link here as an example, not an endorsement of this particular gauge (though the ones I have are very similar, but came with a tap and die set, and I got another set when I bought 'fishtail' gauges for threading on the lathe with a single point threading tool):
here is a thread
comparison and pitch charts for future info
搁别苍é别
On 3/18/25 9:21 AM, Cubdriver via
wrote:
For what it's
worth, here in the U.S. McMaster-Carr has M3.5 x 0.6 pitch
screws?
?
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: setton@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 06:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for
screws on 8656 Siggen
?
If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the
hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with
black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored stainless
steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility
with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
?
This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which
is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware
vendors have them, one of them is here :
(no affiliation with them).
I hope this helps !
Joel Setton
|
Re: hp8970a recallibration attenuator help
Hello Steve yes and an alternative solution here too says so
https://www.simonsdialogs.com/2015/05/hp-agilent-keysight-8970a-noise-figure-meter-getting-started-error-e26/
--
Roberto
|
Re: hp8970a recallibration attenuator help
Thanks for the help but do I also have to enter the data from the ENR noise table? The only thing I had to do was the table of the various points of the graph printed on the case then I have another table provided to me but I don't know which of the two is more coherent
table the table I got by looking at the graph
sheet 2 calibration sheet that you provided me
suggestions accepted
--
Roberto
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
here is a thread
comparison and pitch charts for future info
搁别苍é别
On 3/18/25 9:21 AM, Cubdriver via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
For what it's
worth, here in the U.S. McMaster-Carr has M3.5 x 0.6 pitch
screws?
?
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: setton@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 06:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for
screws on 8656 Siggen
?
If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the
hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with
black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored stainless
steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility
with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
?
This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which
is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware
vendors have them, one of them is here :
(no affiliation with them).
I hope this helps !
Joel Setton
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
Apparently the first tilde split the link (at least as it came to me in the message) - copy and paste the entire line to get directly to the M3.5 x 0.6 screws. -Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: pbmanning@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 12:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
? For what it's worth, here in the U.S. McMaster-Carr has M3.5 x 0.6 pitch screws?
?
-Pat
? > ------ Original Message ------
> From: setton@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 06:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
? If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored stainless steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
? This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware vendors have them, one of them is here : (no affiliation with them). I hope this helps ! Joel Setton
|
Re: Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
For what it's worth, here in the U.S. McMaster-Carr has M3.5 x 0.6 pitch screws?
?
-Pat
?
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: setton@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18th 2025, 06:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Threads for screws on 8656 Siggen
? If it's indeed M3.5 x 0.6, it's the same size as the hardware used on the recent HP-IB connectors, the ones with black screws (early HP-IB connectors used uncolored stainless steel 6-32 American hardware). You can check for compatibility with the screws on an HP-IB connector.
? This is indeed a metric size, but a very unusual one which is not easily found, even here in Europe. Very few hardware vendors have them, one of them is here : (no affiliation with them). I hope this helps ! Joel Setton
|
Roberto
Cubdriver