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Date
Re: Introduction

 

I need to do a purge of the equipment I have.? I got into electronics through repair.? So almost everything I have I restored myself from a broken state.? But I didn't really know if I would need it for a specific application; it was more "its a power supply, I'm sure I'll use it for something".? I wish my benches had a bit more depth.? There's still a good enough space to work on things.? What might be harder to see on the right are 3 carts in a line that I use to bring my tools around the lab for repair of the lab equipment, but also as another work bench.? It's helpful to have a work surface that is mobile; especially if I'm working on something heavy or cumbersome.?
?
Yves I appreciate you sharing your experience getting into electronics.? I am always curious what backgrounds everyone has knowing some of us are self-taught while others have EE degrees/education.? I started out in chemistry and that is what my degree is in.? I've been considering going into an online master's program for EE.? Someday I'd love to get some career advice from y'all for someone looking to further their career in EE, transitioning from another industry.
?
-Frank
Re: Introduction

 

I use wire frame shelves on wheels for the working equipment. You can clamp it together.? The main workbench is also on wheels. For some equipment, the corner is beveled to allow access by crawling under the workbench.? You'll want cheap masonite plates as fillers to keep the feet from being caught in the wires.? This gives me less density, but more access.? Normal air circulation is like a normal bench.

Harvey

On 9/19/2024 9:35 AM, Burt K6OQK wrote:
Gang,

Yves, welcome to the group.? I mostly lurk way in the background.

I find this to be a great thread.? I, like many of you, am a great collector of test and measurement equipment.? Most of it I need and use in my work, but some I am protecting from someone's dumpster.? I have a two car garage as my workshop and a 20-foot shipping container full of stuff.? My main work bench is so cluttered with pieces of half baked projects that there's hardly any space to work.? My main work bench started out as a heavy duty storage shelf.? My son and I evolved it into a very nice and sturdy work bench with the idea that I would not allow it to turn into a mess like all my previous benches. Hah!!!? Anyway, one of my questions for all of you is, with your equipment that seems to be piled many levels high and up against walls, how do you keep stuff cool?? I've put a couple of 5-1/4" muffin fans blowing laterally across the back of my piles of equipment.

I'll take a picture of my shoppe and post it hear for you all to have a good laugh.

Tell me how you handle the heating.

Burt, K6OQK


Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK
Re: Introduction

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I too mostly lurk, and post occasionally. Here is my lab. I have a smaller one also as I have not used this one in about 8 years. The tables are 6 foot long, but I had to put extra legs in the middle to hold all the weight. 73 ¨C Mike

?

Mike B. Feher, N4FS

89 Arnold Blvd.

Howell NJ 07731

908-902-3831

?


Virus-free.

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Re: Introduction

 

Gang,

Yves, welcome to the group. I mostly lurk way in the background.

I find this to be a great thread. I, like many of you, am a great collector of test and measurement equipment. Most of it I need and use in my work, but some I am protecting from someone's dumpster. I have a two car garage as my workshop and a 20-foot shipping container full of stuff. My main work bench is so cluttered with pieces of half baked projects that there's hardly any space to work. My main work bench started out as a heavy duty storage shelf. My son and I evolved it into a very nice and sturdy work bench with the idea that I would not allow it to turn into a mess like all my previous benches. Hah!!! Anyway, one of my questions for all of you is, with your equipment that seems to be piled many levels high and up against walls, how do you keep stuff cool? I've put a couple of 5-1/4" muffin fans blowing laterally across the back of my piles of equipment.

I'll take a picture of my shoppe and post it hear for you all to have a good laugh.

Tell me how you handle the heating.

Burt, K6OQK


Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California U.S.A.
biwa@...
K6OQK



--
Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, CA 91201 U.S.A.
K6OQK
Re: HP 5086-7906 YTO

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

hello Yves, great repair that of the opt 130
In my case the opt 130 has always worked well and I have never needed to study it in detail
Did you do the realignment by adjusting the trimmers on the board itself?
The adventure with my 8595E continues
To sum up, after my last email I focused on a more accurate and uniform alignment of the SYTF. With the help of the microscope, a strong light source, a precision power supply and a fairly reliable frequency source I obtained an insertion loss as per the attached excel file
After reassembling the RF front-end everything worked fine again, including the MXR CAL routine that?used to?give the?error? "insufficient harmonics"
When I moved from the "messy" version (pic)? reinserting everything into its space (which is very crowded, also due to the existence, in my case, of the tracking gen)?and connected?the SA input to CAL OUT I observed a type of intermittent noise, in the form of spikes of intensity about -60dBm that appear and disappear in the area of ??the highest harmonics (I already checked the?CAL OUT signal; it?is clean and fine)
Now I think I will have to re-disassemble the front-end (ouch) and try to understand from where does this noise originate :-(?
If you are interested I?can send you a short video of the problem (don't think I?can post videos here)
Thanks for asking, Yves
Adri
?

----- Messaggio originale -----
Da: Yves Tardif via groups.io <yves_tardif@...>
Rispondi a: <[email protected]>
Inviato: 18/09/2024 23:47:21
Oggetto: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

Hi Adri,

?

I had borrowed a faulty 8595E from a friend to study the second converter.

?

The problem with this 8595E was that the AMP CAL was not working and displayed an error message pointing to option 130 (narrow resolution bandwidth).

Looking at the calibration constants, I noticed the calibration values ??were very far apart for some filters.

After checking, I had no choice but to realign the filters.

I followed the procedures and the problem was solved.

This Spectrum had no hardware defects and option 130 had no problem.

So, I did the full calibration, and voila, this 8595E now has a second life.

?

Have you managed to get your 8595E working properly again?

?

Before filters adjustments at left, and after at right.

?

Yves

?

?

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de alfa beta
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 13 septembre 2024 19:14
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

?

Yves, thanks for the info about the 2nd converter? After having installed the one bought on the bay?I checked?the original one?on the bench and it?seems to work normally

?

I'm starting to suspect the blindness on the LOW BAND was due to a bad connection I did when the repair was suspended years ago ¡­ ouch !

?

Meanwhile I'm investigating?a certain deafness on the HIGH BAND (from 2.4 to 11 dB)

?

I measured the insertion loss of the SYTF I had realigned and found figures?from 5.2??to? 8.5 dB on the range? 3 to 6 GHz

?

These figures?seem not too bad?and?the AMP CAL routine should be able to recover them ...unless there is some hardware problem in the generation of the tuning current (I performed the insertion loss measurements by manually tuning? with an external precision power supply)

Will see ...

Adri

?

?

?

?

----- Messaggio originale -----

Da: Yves Tardif via groups.io <yves_tardif@...>

Rispondi a: <[email protected]>

Inviato: 13/09/2024 07:51:28

Oggetto: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

Hi Adri,

?

A friend of mine had a faulty 8595E, the problem comes from the option card 130.

But I took the opportunity to look at the second converter, so here are some details on this module.

?

Regards

Yves

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de alfa beta
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 10 septembre 2024 16:26
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

?

hello Yves,
I received the 2nd converter and, after testing it on the bench (if you are interested I will give you the two test configurations) I installed it and voil¨¤, the machine is back to working like in the old days
It passes the amplitude and frequency calibrations and the confidence test without any problem
As it happened before the death of the YTO the analyzer still has a certain "deafness" after 5.5GHz
By virtue of the alignment of the spheres that I did a few weeks ago The defect is milder than it was then and I think it is due to a sub-optimal loss of insertion of the SYTF A3A2

?

As proof of the "deafness", while all the calibration routines, including the CAL YTF routine are performed without problems, the CAL MXR is not completed and gives the message CAL: HARMONICS INSUFFICIENT In fact I attach a screen of the 300MHz calibration signal from which it would seem that the very last harmonics are missing
Thank you in advance if can you send the analogous screen of your analyzer
In a few days I will receive a more reliable 6GHz RF generator than the current one and I will use it to try to perfect the alignment
Yves, I think that now you can reassemble and close your analyzer :-) Many thanks for all the measurements that you sent me and that were useful to trace the problem!
Adri

?

----- Messaggio originale -----

Da: Yves Tardif via groups.io <yves_tardif@...>

Rispondi a: <[email protected]>

Inviato: 08/09/2024 01:35:49

Oggetto: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

Hi Adri

?

Here are the measurements connected to the first 2 converters as a reference.

?

For the second converter I get a voltage of -1.678V instead of -3.5V as written in the service manual, I would say that we have similar voltages for this particular point.

It seems far from the nominal point, but there may be an error in the manual.

?

You are close to the goal, and this module may be repairable if there is no micro circuit, I have never opened a second converter in this series, but it is a possibility.

?

When you open your second converter, send me pictures, I'm curious.

?

Yves

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de alfa beta
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 6 septembre 2024 19:30
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

?

dear Yves, I didn't realize that you had made the measurements expressly to help me! I owe you then a double (even triple) thanks! Especially considering the fact that the front end of this instrument is really very dense, complicated and delicate!

After my last email, in addition to doing the (essentially mechanical) intervention on the SYTF, I continued to check the input signal through the various sections by alternately injecting 300MHz @-20dBm and 5GHz @0 dBm

The signals were found to be in specification up to the A3A9 bandpass (where the two paths join to form the intermediate frequency of 321.4MHz). At this point I could see the 5GHz signal (converted), present at that point at -47dBm (the specification says -43/-56dBm).
Instead, no trace of the 300MHz input signal


Investigatine?the second converter A3A4 in more depth
I checked?the signals at its input


On J1 there is 3.9214GHz at -46dBm? --->OK
On J3 there is 321.4MHz @ -37.7dBm? --->OK
On J4 I did not check 600MHz @-1dBm but the fact that the converter works in band 1 tells me that the oscillator is present and is in specification


The power supply is quite OK (5V are actually 4.75; 10V are 9.98 and the DC that controls the internal switch that should be +15V? (band 0) and -3.5V?(band 1) is actually +14.60V and -1.35V

?

This last value is rather far from the nominal and would have worried me BUT band 1 is exactly the one that works

Conclusion: it would seem that the culprit is the second converter and in particular (probably) the internal switch that has the sole task of letting the signal? (which is already at 321.4MHz and does not need to be converted)?pass from its input to the output


In the next few days I will test the converter that meanwhile?has been?disassembled?; In the meantime I found a cheap one on the bay that should arrive in about ten days


Yves, I have a question: on the block diagram A3A4 is represented as a block that has 5 ports of which one (J5) would seem to be the connector that carries the power and the DC that controls the switch and that connects to A7 Analog Interface through the W35 cable

?

Actually,?this connector on the real component, does not have a name
Instead,?the name J5?, stamped on the case , indicates an SMB connector that has the writing LO TEST and in my analyzer?it is the one that?conveys the 600MHz LO signal?

Now,?on the block diagram the connector that conveys the 600MHz signal has the name J4 (in my analyzer, the J4 connector was disconnected)

?

This confusion of names and roles made me doubt that years ago, when I had disassembled this section I had not reassembled it correctly

thanks again and best regards

Adri

?

?

?

----- Messaggio originale -----

Da: Yves Tardif via groups.io <yves_tardif@...>

Rispondi a: <[email protected]>

Inviato: 06/09/2024 23:21:52

Oggetto: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

Hi Adri,

?

I had sent you the measurements of the RF input-output mixer signals verification, I had disassembled the High Frequency section of my 8595E to be able to provide you with this information.

If you have no more questions relating to this section, I will close my 8595E and do a flatness check to see if everything is correct.

?

Yves

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de alfa beta
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 31 ao?t 2024 12:23
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 5086-7906 YTO

?

Yves,

thank you very much for all the suggestions and information with which I will continue my investigation
In the meantime I received the 2.5mm socket wrench and after?a little mod to adapt it?for the purpose (photo), I proceeded to align the spheres of the SYTF


I must say that the operation done under the microscope is quite simple

The nuts must be loosened (not too much) and with a small screwdriver that acts as a delicate lever, ?the supports of?the?spheres can be moved so that the coupling ring completely shadows them (i.e. the sphere is exactly in the center)
Removing the gold mesh was not necessary
The insertion loss has improved enormously:
at 5 GHz it is -6dBm at 6GHz it is -10dB (before the signal starting from this frequency was no longer visible) at 6.5 GHz it is only -3dB
I will install it when I have solved the problem of "blindness" in band 0 since the calibration constants that the instrument has in memory (in practice the tuning current data) are relative to the original SYTF and the "new" SYTW requires a? SYTF CAL is done

Adri

?

?

SYTF insetion loss.JPG
IMG-20240918-WA0002.jpg

Re: HPIB disk drive as a substitute for SRAM cards

 

If you join the (rather pooly named) /g/HP8924-Family-Spectrum-Analyzers group you fill find the RF tools programs in the files section. Lots of other stuff for the 892x tests sets.
You should be able to read the PCMCIA card from the 8924C directly in a PC with a PCMCIA slot (older laptop)
?
Robert.
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

Sorry, these would work for DB connectors but not the HIPB.? ?Well, wouldn't be able to daisy chain...
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

McMaster-Carr:
?
These should work
?
?
Also thumb screws:
?
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/screws/system-of-measurement~metric/thread-size~m3-5/thumb-screws~/
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

Thanks everyone for your suggestions ! I am going to try a solution which re-purposes the screws from a discarded HP-IB connector, and of course I will post more details on this list if the experience is successful.
Joel Setton
?
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

Ha Wilko, ik zie een 86290 die er "naast" staat een veel voorkomend probleem als gevolg van verlopen weerstanden.
Het is snel te zien door de frequentie te checken in de basisband 2-6 via de N-connector achterop? en pogen af te regelen vlgs aanwijzingen service manual. Een ander probleem is leveling tgv stuurstroom verloop YTM. Heb je een servicemanual?
Inmiddels al diverse exemplaren weer op hun plek gezet. In Heelweg komt mijn volgende patient hi
Als je interesse hebt kan ik proberen een documentje te maken als een soort leidraad
73es Rien PA0JME
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

I've been accumulating T&M kit into my ham shack for quite a while now. The shack is in the attic which makes for a cozy but sometimes crowded workspace. I did, interesting maybe, choose the smallest room in the attic. Knowing full well I can easily fill the entire attic (say 5x the shack floor space) with kit as well.

Recently I added some steel strips for load distribution of the table's weight. This HP stuff is mighty heavy, and stacking does not help for "point loads" (does that translate, "puntlast" in Dutch).

Ah well.. of to see if I can get the two HP E4418B repaired. At least those are compact and lightweight.

Wilko
PA1WBU

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Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

Joel,
Where are you located?
I have a couple of spares.
?
Robert (UK).
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

Digikey and Mouser has them, but they are expensive.

Re: HPIB disk drive as a substitute for SRAM cards

 

At Keysight's website they had a pointer to the "1999 SCPI Command Reference".. Oh joy! I found the catalog command and the COPY commands right away.
These do look to be the same files as I have so that's great.
?
Re: Introduction

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Your remark is relevant, except that in my case, I have no other place for storage and this is probably also the case for many other people, with the little storage space that I have, only a few instruments have been removed and a few others have already been sold.

?

So, my work bench also serves as storage, the least used instruments are found at the ends or above the work benches.

And the least used will be sold, but it takes time too.

?

All my instruments are connected by GPIB, LAN or USB.

I have to regularly do control programs for various applications.

Removing equipment to put it back 2 weeks later for a day causes a lot of trouble given the weight and connections, especially if the equipment to be removed is below the pile of instruments.

?

The ideal, for me would have been to have 2 rooms, one for storage only and one for the lab with a clearer work table.

?

Also have several shelves so as not to have stacking of instruments which is painful when making changes.

For prototyping, I have enough space, for equipment repair, I use a table on wheels having the same height as my work tables.

?

Equipment that you no longer use is worthless indeed, so the best thing is to sell it as you say and it will be useful for someone else.

?

De?: [email protected] <[email protected]> De la part de VE6WMR
·¡²Ô±¹´Ç²â¨¦?: 18 septembre 2024 23:01
??: [email protected]
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Introduction

?

I notice too many of these benches have redundant gear stacked close to the user. Not much point in that. Keep the few instruments you commonly use nearby, the rare ones in farther storage. The ones you never use, sell those off, there's no point in it.
HPIB disk drive as a substitute for SRAM cards

 

I've made some progress on this project by having the dual disk drive talk to the HP8924C.
?
I would like to transfer the calibration files on the Panasonic SRAM card into the disk drive. I'd like to compare it to what I have, then modify the program
so that it homes on the disk drive instead of the SRAM card. I was able to borrow the SRAM card but have to return it soon.
?
I have some similar files and have attempted to swap out the mass memory term "CARD"? for "DISK" but various errors have popped up when I tried to run it.
Downloading various iBasic programming PDFs have helped a little but it's slow going. Anyone know of an existing library of programs related to RF test instruments?
?
Jim
?
Re: Introduction

 

All of these nice labs with sturdy shelves are inspiring me to finally set up some shelves of my own. I would like to move the power supplies up and free up a little more space on the bench. Also try to get the DMMs and RF power meters up at eye level too.
?
Jim
Re: Introduction

 

I don't know if I would label them as redundant. Some are hot standby spares and in other situations multiples are required. In a prototype RF circuit three mixers in a downconversion chain will require three signal generators. Same for simultaneous power and spectrum observations; 2 or three spectrum analyzers or two RF power meters save needless swapping of one instrument dozens of times around different test points.
?
Jim
Re: HP-IB connector screws

 

The email address made of random charactors seems to be immune to harvesting and has remained spam-free.
Re: Introduction

 

Good point, and one I go by.


On Wed, Sep 18, 2024, 8:01 PM VE6WMR via <akuzych=[email protected]> wrote:
I notice too many of these benches have redundant gear stacked close to the user. Not much point in that. Keep the few instruments you commonly use nearby, the rare ones in farther storage. The ones you never use, sell those off, there's no point in it.
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