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Re: Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

 

Small RF inductors? 2.2mH and 2.7mH?
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý


RG59 or RG58 !

Am 25.01.2024 um 10:33 schrieb Steve Byan:

The 410C DC ranges go up to 1500 volts. Unfortunately the Mogami W2546 cable is only rated for 500 volts DC:
Re: 410C VTVM Test Leads Coax Type Help

 

The 410C DC ranges go up to 1500 volts. Unfortunately the Mogami W2546 cable is only rated for 500 volts DC:
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

Hi,

Here is a link from eevblog, also search for previous messages using "Binder 719". This AUX probe connector topic has been discussed several times. It is used also on other spectrum analyzers (for example IFR239x series, and LG models)



The Binder 719 series can be used (with some small adjustments). Or if you have a 3D printer, there is a model available on the eevblog post page.

BR,

Gyorgy

On 1/25/2024 7:17 AM, hardyhansendk via groups.io wrote:
Hi
This power plug have been asked for a lot of times--the Lemos doesn¡¯t fit.The closest we did find were a plug from Binder.
Will look it up tomorrow-not home.
Hardy

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Dave McGuire
Sendt: 24. januar 2024 18:14
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Power plug for Agilent 87405C

On 1/24/24 12:10, Jim Schatzman wrote:
Does anyone know where (aside from Keysight) that I can purchase the power plug for the 87405C preamp? This is a 3-pin plug for +-15V which is similar to the plug used on some probes. Thanks!
I believe that's a Lemo connector. They're usually readily available, but are notoriously difficult to identify.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA






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Str. Constructorilor Nr. 2
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Tel +40-264-556454
Fax +40-264-441275
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Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

Hi
This power plug have been asked for a lot of times--the Lemos doesn¡¯t fit.The closest we did find were a plug from Binder.
Will look it up tomorrow-not home.
Hardy

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Dave McGuire
Sendt: 24. januar 2024 18:14
Til: [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Power plug for Agilent 87405C

On 1/24/24 12:10, Jim Schatzman wrote:
Does anyone know where (aside from Keysight) that I can purchase the power plug for the 87405C preamp? This is a 3-pin plug for +-15V which is similar to the plug used on some probes. Thanks!
I believe that's a Lemo connector. They're usually readily available, but are notoriously difficult to identify.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA






--
Denne mail er blevet tjekket for vira af AVG-antivirussoftware.
www.avg.com
Re: Replace HP8903A?

 

Matt et all
Yes the newer FFT based instruments are far superior to the old.
Try look at

Its build primary to test AD converters,but it can use readily available software(spectraplus-REW-Arta-Virtins...)
Hardy

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: [email protected] <[email protected]> P? vegne af Matt Huszagh
Sendt: 24. januar 2024 21:53
Til: robert8rpi@...; [email protected]
Emne: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Replace HP8903A?

"Robert G8RPI via groups.io" <robert8rpi@...> writes:

The Technology difference between the 8903A and Q403 is not the ADC, it's the processor and digital signal processing.
I'm not sure what this statement means. Clearly the ADC is a technology difference between the two designs, along with a number of other differences since these instruments use very different architectures. But, do you mean to say performance difference? It does also contribute to the performance difference - more on this shortly.

Most, if not all, of the filtering etc in the q403 is done in software. I assume it has a Nyquist filter on the input.
Not necessarily. The ADC in question (ES9822PRO) has a lot of digital filtering capabilities in a signal processing core (this is hardware, not software), just behind the ADC. This is a very common characteristic of modern ADCs since many ADC applications require filtering after sampling (typically decimation filtering). I don't know to what extent QuantAsylum uses these built-in capabilities vs filtering in software on the processor, but I'm not really sure why you're mentioning it. Are you suggesting this is inferior? Something else?

Being able to filter digitally is a massive advantage and is used to great effect in many applications.

Regardless if you can hear them or not, frequencies above the fundamental affect the THD measurement and need to be accounted for to make accurate measurements.
I'm confused. So it doesn't matter but you have to measure it anyway because it's expected? Ok, well I'm not sure how to respond to that. I'll take a look at Radu's note - I believe he sent me something about why larger bandwidths might actually be useful.

I'm not saying that the Q403 isn't adequate for most hobby applications, just that dispite the fancy user interface it does not have the fundamental performance of the 8903A/B.
You seem to have selected bandwidth as the ultimate performance criteria and declared the 8903 the winner based on that. There are many other metrics (many arguably more important), that the QA403 wins, some by a pretty wide margin. You stated previously "The "loop-back" THD mearuerments at audio seem to be similar at 0.001%." but I'm not sure where you're getting this information. The 8903B product overview says "Accurate distortion measurements can typically be made down to less than ¨C90 dB (0.003%) between 20 Hz and 20 kHz." The spec, however, gives the system residual distortion and noise as -80 dB, so I would assume 0.003% is more of a typical value. The QA403, by contrast, specifies
-105 dB. And, if you look at the plots using a low-distortion external source, it's closer to -110 dB. So, the distortion + noise metric is anywhere from 15 to 30 dB better. That's a pretty big difference. I didn't see a just THD spec for the 8903, but it's -115 dB for the QA403. That's really good. This performance comes from the ADC - look up the datasheet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fancy user interface", but being able to view the full spectral content of a signal over the measurement bandwidth is damn useful, not just "fancy". Take a look at the dynamic range of some of the spectrum plots in the product brochure. For example "Noise Floor: 48k SPS, +0 dBV Full Scale Input". That's about 160 dB of dynamic range. You gain a lot from that FFT processing gain. And, that's
0 to -160 dBV. -160 dBV is 10 nV RMS! Unfortunately, the nonlinearities of the ADC (and DAC for the loopback) limit the THD performance to the above specs. But, that -160 dBV noise floor means eg you can measure the spectral noise content of all but the quietest linear regulators without a preamp. Or, you can measure the noise of the LT3045 with a preamp of only modest gain. Maybe overkill, since you can always use a preamp in front and then you don't need such a large dynamic range, but still useful and definitely not an instrument limited to "hobby" applications.

I don't want to come across as indicating the 8903 isn't a nice instrument - it seems great. And it's hard to find an HP instrument of this vintage that isn't (my lab is full of them, and I love using them). But, this attitude that nothing technologically worthwhile has been invented since 1990 goes too far. Despite all of our love for the great old HP equipment (I place myself firmly in that camp), there's also lots of exceptional new stuff out there, particularly in terms of performance. And many of the HP engineers of the day would have recognized that. Sure, there's also lots to complain about (scenario:
your high-end oscilloscope running Windows takes several minutes to boot and needs an internet connection to validate a license so that you can use its features), but it's incorrect to believe that nothing's improved.

Ok, it's time for me to stop screaming into the void.

Matt





--
Denne mail er blevet tjekket for vira af AVG-antivirussoftware.
www.avg.com
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

Oops! Dave is correct after all. I didn't realize that Lemo makes smaller connectors, but they do.

A colleague thinks that it may be part # FGG.1B.303.CLAZ, available from DigiKey, for example.

Thanks to Dave for the right answer!

At 10:13 AM 1/24/2024, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 1/24/24 12:10, Jim Schatzman wrote:
Does anyone know where (aside from Keysight) that I can purchase the power plug for the 87405C preamp? This is a 3-pin plug for +-15V which is similar to the plug used on some probes. Thanks!
I believe that's a Lemo connector. They're usually readily available, but are notoriously difficult to identify.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

I haven't seen Lemo knockoffs in my previous searches, but I also haven't looked in some time, so thanks, John, for mentioning that I should give it another go.

--Cheers
Tom

--
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
420 Via Palou Mall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070

On 1/24/2024 3:57 PM, John Griessen wrote:
On 1/24/24 12:04, Tom Lee wrote:
And often the prices have to be given in dB dollars to defer sticker shock.
But some knockoffs on aliexpress work OK...for far less...
Re: Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

One of those tiny cheap $50 VNA would do the job as well.? And if a guy does very much RF work at all, a VNA is a **exceptionally** handy gadget to have laying around.? 

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
On 1/24/2024 4:15 PM, si_emi_01 via groups.io wrote:

An HP-4192A or HP-4191A will do that with ease.

?

The HP-4192A will go up to 13MHz, but you need the right test fixture. The test fixture interface is through 4 each BNC connectors that become either Balanced (Signal Source High and Low to Sense High and Low - Kelvin really), and Unbalanced High and Low tied at a High and Low Contact in the fixture.

?

The HP-4191A might be better as it starts at 1MHz and will go up to 1GHz with the proper fixturing. The HP-4191A has a much higher Frequency Interface (Coaxial RF), to the test fixtures (an APC-7), so more accurate readings are possible.

?

Ross

?

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Zentronics42@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

?

I have a bridge that might fit the bill I will look and see what the frequency response is, also how large an inductor? The larger the inductor the more difficult this will be.

?

Zen

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Maciej Kawalkowski, Liberty Electronics Design and Service LLC
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

?

I need to measure so inductor properties and my LCR only goes to 100kHz . Anyone in the Cincinnati Area have a meter I can use up to 1Mhz or I can send parts for measurements.??

Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

On 1/24/24 12:04, Tom Lee wrote:
And often the prices have to be given in dB dollars to defer sticker shock.
But some knockoffs on aliexpress work OK...for far less...
Re: Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

An HP-4192A or HP-4191A will do that with ease.

?

The HP-4192A will go up to 13MHz, but you need the right test fixture. The test fixture interface is through 4 each BNC connectors that become either Balanced (Signal Source High and Low to Sense High and Low - Kelvin really), and Unbalanced High and Low tied at a High and Low Contact in the fixture.

?

The HP-4191A might be better as it starts at 1MHz and will go up to 1GHz with the proper fixturing. The HP-4191A has a much higher Frequency Interface (Coaxial RF), to the test fixtures (an APC-7), so more accurate readings are possible.

?

Ross

?

?

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Zentronics42@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

?

I have a bridge that might fit the bill I will look and see what the frequency response is, also how large an inductor? The larger the inductor the more difficult this will be.

?

Zen

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Maciej Kawalkowski, Liberty Electronics Design and Service LLC
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

?

I need to measure so inductor properties and my LCR only goes to 100kHz . Anyone in the Cincinnati Area have a meter I can use up to 1Mhz or I can send parts for measurements.??

Re: Replace HP8903A?

 

"Robert G8RPI via groups.io" <robert8rpi@...> writes:

The Technology difference between the 8903A and Q403 is not the ADC, it's the processor and digital signal processing.
I'm not sure what this statement means. Clearly the ADC is a technology
difference between the two designs, along with a number of other
differences since these instruments use very different
architectures. But, do you mean to say performance difference? It does
also contribute to the performance difference - more on this shortly.

Most, if not all, of the filtering etc in the q403 is done in software. I assume it has a Nyquist filter on the input.
Not necessarily. The ADC in question (ES9822PRO) has a lot of digital
filtering capabilities in a signal processing core (this is hardware,
not software), just behind the ADC. This is a very common characteristic
of modern ADCs since many ADC applications require filtering after
sampling (typically decimation filtering). I don't know to what extent
QuantAsylum uses these built-in capabilities vs filtering in software on
the processor, but I'm not really sure why you're mentioning it. Are you
suggesting this is inferior? Something else?

Being able to filter digitally is a massive advantage and is used to
great effect in many applications.

Regardless if you can hear them or not, frequencies above the fundamental affect the THD measurement and need to be accounted for to make accurate measurements.
I'm confused. So it doesn't matter but you have to measure it anyway
because it's expected? Ok, well I'm not sure how to respond to
that. I'll take a look at Radu's note - I believe he sent me something
about why larger bandwidths might actually be useful.

I'm not saying that the Q403 isn't adequate for most hobby applications, just that dispite the fancy user interface it does not have the fundamental performance of the 8903A/B.
You seem to have selected bandwidth as the ultimate performance criteria
and declared the 8903 the winner based on that. There are many other
metrics (many arguably more important), that the QA403 wins, some by a
pretty wide margin. You stated previously "The "loop-back" THD
mearuerments at audio seem to be similar at 0.001%." but I'm not sure
where you're getting this information. The 8903B product overview says
"Accurate distortion measurements can typically be made down to less
than ¨C90 dB (0.003%) between 20 Hz and 20 kHz." The spec, however, gives
the system residual distortion and noise as -80 dB, so I would assume
0.003% is more of a typical value. The QA403, by contrast, specifies
-105 dB. And, if you look at the plots using a low-distortion external
source, it's closer to -110 dB. So, the distortion + noise metric is
anywhere from 15 to 30 dB better. That's a pretty big difference. I
didn't see a just THD spec for the 8903, but it's -115 dB for the
QA403. That's really good. This performance comes from the ADC - look up
the datasheet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fancy user interface", but being able to
view the full spectral content of a signal over the measurement
bandwidth is damn useful, not just "fancy". Take a look at the dynamic
range of some of the spectrum plots in the product brochure. For example
"Noise Floor: 48k SPS, +0 dBV Full Scale Input". That's about 160 dB of
dynamic range. You gain a lot from that FFT processing gain. And, that's
0 to -160 dBV. -160 dBV is 10 nV RMS! Unfortunately, the nonlinearities
of the ADC (and DAC for the loopback) limit the THD performance to the
above specs. But, that -160 dBV noise floor means eg you can measure the
spectral noise content of all but the quietest linear regulators without
a preamp. Or, you can measure the noise of the LT3045 with a preamp of
only modest gain. Maybe overkill, since you can always use a preamp in
front and then you don't need such a large dynamic range, but still
useful and definitely not an instrument limited to "hobby" applications.

I don't want to come across as indicating the 8903 isn't a nice
instrument - it seems great. And it's hard to find an HP instrument of
this vintage that isn't (my lab is full of them, and I love using
them). But, this attitude that nothing technologically worthwhile has
been invented since 1990 goes too far. Despite all of our love for the
great old HP equipment (I place myself firmly in that camp), there's
also lots of exceptional new stuff out there, particularly in terms of
performance. And many of the HP engineers of the day would have
recognized that. Sure, there's also lots to complain about (scenario:
your high-end oscilloscope running Windows takes several minutes to boot
and needs an internet connection to validate a license so that you can
use its features), but it's incorrect to believe that nothing's
improved.

Ok, it's time for me to stop screaming into the void.

Matt
Re: Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have a bridge that might fit the bill I will look and see what the frequency response is, also how large an inductor? The larger the inductor the more difficult this will be.

?

Zen

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Maciej Kawalkowski, Liberty Electronics Design and Service LLC
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 2:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

?

I need to measure so inductor properties and my LCR only goes to 100kHz . Anyone in the Cincinnati Area have a meter I can use up to 1Mhz or I can send parts for measurements.??

Looking for someone with 1MHZ capable LCR in the Cincinnati area

 

I need to measure so inductor properties and my LCR only goes to 100kHz . Anyone in the Cincinnati Area have a meter I can use up to 1Mhz or I can send parts for measurements.??
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

And often the prices have to be given in dB dollars to defer sticker shock.

Sent from an iThing; please forgive the typos and brevity

On Jan 24, 2024, at 10:13, factory <bobradios11@...> wrote:

?A Lemo pdf catalog is here, only 200+ pages, I agree these can be hard to identify with all the variations available.
Re: FS HP / Agilent 16361A 1 KHz and HP 16362A 10 KHz LCR calibration standards

 

What do you think they are worth ? I? would want one of these.?
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

A Lemo pdf catalog is here, only 200+ pages, I agree these can be hard to identify with all the variations available.



David
Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

Lemo seems to make the big metal connectors (mostly 5 pins) that Keysight, Boonton and others use for power sensor cables. I am looking for the +-15V plug which is a small (about 1/4" diameter) round plug with male pins in a triangular pattern about 1/8" across and a key slot on the outside. It is about the same size but otherwise completely different from the probe power plugs used on Agilent/Keysight analyzers, some of which are round and some D-shaped.

DSC03645.JPG

Re: Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

On 1/24/24 12:10, Jim Schatzman wrote:
Does anyone know where (aside from Keysight) that I can purchase the power plug for the 87405C preamp? This is a 3-pin plug for +-15V which is similar to the plug used on some probes. Thanks!
I believe that's a Lemo connector. They're usually readily available, but are notoriously difficult to identify.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Power plug for Agilent 87405C

 

Does anyone know where (aside from Keysight) that I can purchase the power plug for the 87405C preamp? This is a 3-pin plug for +-15V which is similar to the plug used on some probes. Thanks!
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