Re: HP 16500C looking for logic analyser boards that are functional
Hi Damien,
There are no schematics available that I've ever seen.? And I don't know of any analysis cards that don't have this problem to some extent.? All the analysis cards I've seen have components on the bottom, and therefore the plastic runners to "protect" them from getting raked off.
You don't say what country you're in, but right now on ebay there are two 16557D cards for sale in the USA for USD$49.95 each (+ shipping) in "Used" condition, which means they are claimed as working by the seller.? If you get them and they don't work, you can return them as "Not as Described", whether the seller accepts returns or not.? For the ones I see (item #305031279984), the seller accepts returns anyway.
That's inexpensive for these cards, and a factor may be that they don't have cables, but presumably you don't need those anyway.? What do you have to lose.
You could also try buying one, and if it works use it as a comparison to fix yours.? It's much easier to fix these corroded cards if you can compare to a working one.
Another tack is if you know someone with a 16700 mainframe, you can plug in your 16557D cards and turn on some fairly verbose debugging during self-test which may lead you to the problem.? I'm not familiar enough with the 16500C to know if it has something similar.? Maybe someone else can comment on its debugging capabilities.
-mark
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Re: 4145A and 16058A - Repair, Upgrade, and Miscellaneous
Nice work! That LCD looks great, and I might just have to grab some of those TO-220 sockets too.
I still need to get some triax cables for my unit, and make a new foam insert for the box that holds the test fixture adapter boards.
For my jumper leads, I used 2mm plugs for the test fixture side, and (RS part number 309-7552) 1mm plugs for the adapter side.
The 1mm plugs aren't stackable like the original part, but one day I'll try again to track down something that is.
Maybe I'll buy a bunch of? 30cm 1mm test leads, chop them in half and put the SLS205 plugs on the cut end...
Jared
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Re: HP8970 Controller/ROM
Before replacing anything - Check all operating voltages on the digital board.
Do NOT trust the test points on the PSU.
I have encountered erratic behavior caused by to high internal
resistance of some inductors that were parts of the supply voltage filtering,
Ulf
SM6GXV
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Re: HP11729C 640 MHz magic cable?
I measured the delay between ports on my VNA and there is 145 degrees at 640 MHz .. I built a cable for that and it runs at 640.0047,? just +4.7KHz, well within spec? ...? (which is either +- 10 KHz or +-30KHz, depending on which notes you read)?
Physical cable length is 150mm beween phase reference planes of the connectors, plus a standard small SMA attenuator.
AT 640.00470 MHz? into the comb generator, I measure at the mixer input:
.640 GHz? +15.5dBm
1,92G????? -1.0
4.48G???? +2.5
7/04G??? -0.25
9.6G????? -2.25
12.16G ?? -6.7
14.72G???? -9.2
17.28G??? -14.37
No idea how good/bad that is ... I guess I'll have to read the manuel. but at least it seems to run ...
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Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A
Awesome.
I think the easiest next experiment would be to remove one of the doubled-up diodes in each of the two places, and check the frequency response at the upper end.
Ed
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Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A
And, success!
With the same prescaler and bias network as used by HP, the option board works!
I bought the prescaler chips from Aliexpress, they came loose in a non ESD plastic bag, s I was a bit dubious if they would be working or even genuine. Closer inspection revealed that they may be salvaged parts. Good for not being fakes at least......
However, on installing one, it turned out to work fine, nice.
There is a selected resistor (R6 in the HP design) that is specified as 316K, I stuck a 500K trimpot there and tweaked it until the counts reliably froze with no input and got a value of 288K. If I continued winding the trimpot until the display showed random numbers with a 3GHz input at it's lowest acceptable input level, I got 190K, so it seems this resistor does need to be selected for optimum operation (Or my more accurate 5.0V vreg has shifted the required value compared to the 5.1V zener regulator in the original design). I think something around 267K (that seems to be a standard value) should be fine.
I then ran the tracking generator from my 3.2GHz Siglent VNA into the input along with an 8481A power sensor hooked to a E4418B power meter using a BNC Tee
A bit of a crappy setup, but it gives a rough idea of performance.
Here's the results:
I need to get an 8482A to reliably test the low frequencies below 100MHz, but the option board locks onto a signal waaayyy down to 15MHz, not too bad! I can get a lock up to 3.1GHz, so the frequency range is a bit better than specs. Happy with that.
I found that my design needs a bit more power in the 2.7 - 3.0GHz range, HP specify -21dBm whereas I need -18dBm. Maybe some tweaking to the layout maybe something like the diode positions as mentioned by Tom Lee, or a third stage of amplification?
Here's a chart showing SWR, maybe someone can suggest some improvements from this too?
Anyway, as it is, I'm pretty happy with it so far. :)
Let me know if there's anything obvious I can improve on the next (hopefully final) revision if needed.
Jared
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I've never seen any multi-channel time series analysis applied to Vref data. The plots I've seen are all of the raw seismic record level. No attempt at all to remove correlated noise and other noise processes.
My biggest concern is the process of modifying the 3497A to multiplex for the 3458A instead of the builtin 5.5 digit DMM. That may let me run some multi-year tests with hundreds of references, new and used.
I have 110 used LM317s to compare to an equal number of new LM317s. a dozen used LM399s wihch will be paired with an equal number of new, some new AD584s (??). etc. I also hope to measure them with multiple DMMs: 3458A 3457A, 34401As etc.
If my hypothesis is correct I should be able to predict the coefficients from a new cal to within 1-2% based on the previous cal a year or more prior. Because of the properties of exponentials the 1-2% error applies for a prediction period equal to the prior data period.So one should be able to recal at ever increasing intervals and maintain fresh cal accuracy.
It annoys the hell out of me I have to do so much work and wait years to get enough data, but it is what it is.
Have Fun!
Reg
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Re: HP 3585A Issues, Has anybody seen/solved anything like this before?
On 11/15/23 02:04, Brendan Murphy wrote: I finally decided to go down the rabbit hole of the 3585a. Mine was giving me a trouble where it would boot up and give me a calibration error saying ¡°error 02¡± and it USED to give waveform outputs that looked like this;
Now, (months later once I finally got around to the project) it is not displaying any signal at all. It just displays the noise floor. There is no signal at 0Hz anymore, However I can see signal Spurs when the range Auto Range is being changed.
Upon further investigation, it seems like the calibration error is due to the input section not detecting the 10MHz cal signal. From the steps that I took in the service guide, it's telling me that the issue lies within A17 Q1, Q2, Q3 or Q6. This testing was done with an external 10MHz reference input because while I was testing I also found the following,
Yellow is the 10MHz REF output.
Purple is the internal OVEN REF output.
When I apply a 10MHz 5Vpp signal into the EXT REF IN (where the oven would normally connect to), the 10MHz output (Yellow) does not change at all.
So it would appear that I have three errors here and I am a bit stumped.
1. It is unable to detect any signals anymore
2. The internal oven has no output
3. The 10MHz output looks super wonky and does not change regardless if
there is a 10MHz EXT REF IN?or not.
I'm not necessarily looking for answers because I know this is extremely difficult to remote troubleshoot but *if anybody has it any ideas or has seen anything like these before, please let me know!* Hmm, have you checked the cleanliness of the power rails? I've seen modulation like this several times when filter capacitors have died, resulting in several volts of ripple on the power rails. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA
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Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow
I don't think there ever was a "corporate standard" about whether air pressure within an instrument should be positive or negative. The issue was largely left to R&D teams, as a function of the specific requirements of every product (power dissipation, noise level requirements, mechanical constraints, cost, MTBF, maintainability, to name a few).
There's an example of the cooling system used in the 54600 oscilloscope series in the February 1992 issue of HP Journal, pages 37 and 38. Simple concept, and interesting reading.
Cheers,
Joel
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Re: 4145A and 16058A - Repair, Upgrade, and Miscellaneous
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Re: 8510C System Bus Address Error
What about the GPIB cable? Or the cable between IF Unit and Display
unit? You can also try to connect PC with a GPIB adapter to the port and
query the GPIB bus to see if the Display unit really has the correct
address.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 15/11/2023 11:02, tom_iphi via groups.io wrote: Hi folks,
still working on the 8510C system.
I am encountering this "System Bus Address Error" and I don't understand
why.
The system GPIB addresses are set correctly.
- The 8350 is properly addressed the 8510C
- The test set is properly controlled by the 8510C
Replacing the 8510C display unit by my old 8510B one, the system works
properly, no errors.
GPIB system address settings are identical in the B and C.
Any ideas what that error could mean in this case?
Tom
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Re: HP8970 Controller/ROM
I know I have read out the A firmware, and I believe?it has been uploaded to KO4BB.? If not, I will make sure to upload it.?
BR Thomas ons. 15. nov. 2023 kl. 02:01 skrev J. L. Trantham < jltran@...>:
Just checked my 'files' and I found U1 - U13 files, both .BIN and .MOT, for the 8970A.? Not sure where I got them as they date to 2007.? Not my 'usual' label as I save from a unit I have.?
If they don¡¯t come through on this email, I can post them somewhere or send them directly.? Just let me know.
If they are not correct, let me know and I can open a unit I have and 'harvest' them.? Headed OOT early in AM and will be back after Thanksgiving.
Hope this helps.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of John Miles
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 12:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8970 Controller/ROM
A or B?? The B EPROMs are on , at least for "Option H18," whatever that is.? I don't think I've seen the A firmware floating around.
I just uploaded the standard 8970B firmware.? Thought it was already there but didn't see it just now...
-- john, KE5FX
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Julian
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8970 Controller/ROM
I have a faulty 8970, and I am told the ROMs on the controller board may be faulty.
Does anyone have a spare board, or the ROM chips with programme in?
Regards,
Julian,
UK
-- With Best regards, Thomas S. Knutsen.
?Please? avoid sending? me? Word? or? PowerPoint? attachments.
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8510C System Bus Address Error
Hi folks,
still working on the 8510C system.
I am encountering this "System Bus Address Error" and I don't understand why.
The system GPIB addresses are set correctly.
- The 8350 is properly addressed the 8510C
- The test set is properly controlled by the 8510C
Replacing the 8510C display unit by my old 8510B one, the system works properly, no errors.
GPIB system address settings are identical in the B and C.
Any ideas what that error could mean in this case?
Tom
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Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow
FWIW, I use "vidalon" and buy it per meter at the ventilation shop. We use it in the house FTX (heat exchanger that takes heat from the exhaust air and heats the incoming). They are replaved every 3 months. My naval engineer friends tell me it is extensively used on ships as well.
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HP 3585A Issues, Has anybody seen/solved anything like this before?
I finally decided to go down the rabbit hole of the 3585a. Mine was giving me a trouble where it would boot up and give me a calibration error saying ¡°error 02¡± and it USED to give waveform outputs that looked like this;
Now, (months later once I finally got around to the project) it is not displaying any signal at all. It just displays the noise floor. There is no signal at 0Hz anymore, However I can see signal Spurs when the range Auto Range is being changed.
?
Upon further investigation, it seems like the calibration error is due to the input section not detecting the 10MHz cal signal. From the steps that I took in the service guide, it's telling me that the issue lies within A17 Q1, Q2, Q3 or Q6. This testing was done with an external 10MHz reference input because while I was testing I also found the following,
?
Yellow is the 10MHz REF output.
Purple is the internal OVEN REF output.
When I apply a 10MHz 5Vpp signal into the EXT REF IN (where the oven would normally connect to), the 10MHz output (Yellow) does not change at all.
So it would appear that I have three errors here and I am a bit stumped.
- It is unable to detect any signals anymore?
- The internal oven has no output?
- The 10MHz output looks super wonky and does not change regardless if there is a 10MHz EXT REF IN?or not.
I'm not necessarily looking for answers because I know this is extremely difficult to remote troubleshoot but if anybody has it any ideas or has seen anything like these before, please let me know!
?
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Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow
Ask the manufacturers of virtually all PC's. They find it is cheaper and easier to use the DVD player as a dust filter... If you pressurize the case, you have to study the air flow and install baffles and ducting to make sure that air gets to everywhere cooling is needed, and the air is actually cooler than what you are cooling. If you suck on the case, you can get your cool fresh air simply by opening a few holes in the case. As to dust, it generally takes a lot longer for an instrument that sucks on the case to get so stuffed up with dirt that it burns up. A filter, that actually works, will get clogged much sooner than no filter. And, since most people put off periodic maintenance until some fictitious "tomorrow" that never comes, a clogged filter will never be noticed until the instrument fails... Usually long before the warranty is up... I am not recommending one method over the other, just simply explaining why each method is used. -Chuck Harris On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 20:42:53 -0800 "Jim Ford" <james.ford@...> wrote: Yep.? I don't understand why you would even consider sucking dirty
air through the vents and gaps.? ? ? ? ? Jim Ford?Sent from my
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message --------From:
Matthew C <matthew.curlis@...> Date: 11/14/23 2:23 PM
(GMT-08:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re:
[HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP boxes: direction of air flow I've
built a lot of large electrical equipment enclosures for the chemical
processing industry...From a common sense perspective I always
thought the fan & filter should draw air into the cabinet for two
reasons:1. This maintains a positive pressure which keeps dirt etc
from entering in through gaps or cable entry holes - this also means
air has to come through the filter.2. The positive pressure means
there's more air particles to cool down the equipment inside. This is
also done in (for example) tube transmitters where the anode is
cooled with a blower to remove more heat than ambient pressure could
remove.Cheers,Matthew
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Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow
Yep.? I don't understand why you would even consider sucking dirty air through the vents and gaps.? ? ? ? ? Jim Ford?
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Matthew C <matthew.curlis@...> Date: 11/14/23 2:23 PM (GMT-08:00) Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP boxes: direction of air flow
I've built a lot of large electrical equipment enclosures for the chemical processing industry... From a common sense perspective I always thought the fan & filter should draw air into the cabinet for two reasons: 1. This maintains a positive pressure which keeps dirt etc from entering in through gaps or cable entry holes - this also means air has to come through the filter. 2. The positive pressure means there's more air particles to cool down the equipment inside. This is also done in (for example) tube transmitters where the anode is cooled with a blower to remove more heat than ambient pressure could remove. Cheers, Matthew
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Re: DIY 11667A Power Splitter, resistor placement?
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 06:02 AM, Roy Thistle wrote:
On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 08:22 AM, Jared Cabot wrote:
it can't be that difficult' then soon realising I'm staring into the bottomless pit.
... and so this Iron Man isn't Tony Stark after all!?
I knew YouTube and the Internet could deceive...
I'm so disillusioned.?
You and me both. Everywhere I turn it's another detail that I didn't even realise existed, let alone know how to figure out. I don't even know a lot of the terminology being used. I have too many projects on the go, I think I'll end up buying a surplus splitter of some description just to get the job done and the bench cleared for the next project. I have people bugging me for their repairs to be finished so I can't keep wasting time chasing my tail on this one. I'm done for this project. I just simply do not have the knowledge or skill to build or even to test it properly, nor the time to spend figuring it all out. Time is money as they say, and at the moment the cost/benefit ratio for me is to spend money as I just don't have time. Jared
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Re: HP boxes: direction of air flow
Hi Tom,
Regarding the HP 8517a/b S-Parameter Test Set, it features a positive pressure cooling system. The fan directs airflow into the unit. You can found the original fan photo in the attachment.
Best regards,
Denys
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Re: HP8970 Controller/ROM
Just checked my 'files' and I found U1 - U13 files, both .BIN and .MOT, for the 8970A. Not sure where I got them as they date to 2007. Not my 'usual' label as I save from a unit I have.
If they don¡¯t come through on this email, I can post them somewhere or send them directly. Just let me know.
If they are not correct, let me know and I can open a unit I have and 'harvest' them. Headed OOT early in AM and will be back after Thanksgiving.
Hope this helps.
Joe
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of John Miles Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2023 12:29 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8970 Controller/ROM A or B? The B EPROMs are on ko4bb.com, at least for "Option H18," whatever that is. I don't think I've seen the A firmware floating around. I just uploaded the standard 8970B firmware. Thought it was already there but didn't see it just now... -- john, KE5FX -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Julian Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 4:20 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP8970 Controller/ROM I have a faulty 8970, and I am told the ROMs on the controller board may be faulty. Does anyone have a spare board, or the ROM chips with programme in? Regards, Julian, UK
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Jared Cabot
Dave McGuire
Anders
