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Re: help repairing 8133a

 

Thanks Yves,

I checked the operation of frequency counter on external input signal. The frequency counter indeed shows the correct input frequency feed into the external clock input.
This points that either YIG or somewhere near YIG has problem. The frequency error is not minor, for an example, if I set internal clock to112.5MHz, I measure the clock 103.5Mhz and the output frequency stays same (103.5Mhz) even I set the clock to 124Mhz, It seems that in some bands the YIG frequency is both incorrect and not responding to the requested frequency changes.

But in some band (e,g, from 80.7Mhz to 112.4 Mhz), the output frequency is both correct and stable.
I ordered a used timing board from ebay, I hope i can harvest the YIG if it is still functional. wish me a luck.

My unit does not show any other error than E008 (frequency counter error) So I strongly suspect, frequency counter is working OK but output if frequency counter is not correct, throwing error, and because input of the frequency counter is not correct.

I looked into the Channel 1 RF relay, I think we can replace with equivalent part or may be I can open it and have a look, I plan to do it when I open the unit to debug the YIG issue. I will keep you posted.

And Indeed its very difficult to open the unit to have access to the timing board, Its tons of screws :)

Thanks!
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

I agree with Ed and think it's best to use a heavier regulator, or maybe throw some of the power into a series dropping resistor or Zener diode.

Regarding spurious noise and oscillations, here's something I wrote in time-nuts a few months back:

"It's a bit tricky to use prescalers for arbitrary input signals. As others have mentioned, they self-oscillate when there isn't a valid input signal. This is not only a possible, but nearly certain characteristic due to the (typically) ECL input amplifier being biased right at the logic threshold, followed by lots of gain, then divided by flip-flops. These were typically used in PLL synthesizers over limited frequency ranges, with known, adequate power levels.

If you are counting strong signals at well defined DC levels, you can use ECL directly with proper biasing. For a general purpose counter, you want lots of sensitivity and wide frequency range, so the usual prescaler with self-biasing and AC coupling is a simple way to go. You just have to be aware of the limitations. You can eliminate the oscillation tendency by giving up some sensitivity, but it's easiest to just ignore it unless it causes trouble."

Ed
Wanted:HP 11748A Active Probe System Operating Manual

 

Does anyone have the manual or any info on the HP 11748A Active Probe System??

I can’t seem to find anything.

Drew
Re: Book draft update

 

Hi Gianni,

This is a list of the errors that I found so far. They are typographical ones:

P 19. "Input impedance: 0 MΩ" should be . "Input impedance: 10 MΩ"
P 29. "the input de level" should be "the input DC level" .
P 32. " a narrow band de amplifier" should be " a narrow band DC amplifier.
P 32.? "Frequency of the amplifier is 0.5 ps at the -3 db point." ???
P 45. "basic accuracy of ?3% of reading" should be "basic accuracy of +/- 3% of reading" .
P 45. "floating off-ground to ?500 volts peak" should be "floating off-ground +/- 500 volts peak".
P52. "low to chassis: ? 500 V peak," should be . "low to chassis: +/- 500 V peak," .

Best regards,

Ignacio

El 08/10/2023 a las 20:15, EB4APL via groups.io escribió:

Hi Gianni,

First of all a big thank you for these marvelous books that you have gifted to us.

I want to take to your attention that in the Hewlett Packard one there is an error in page 19, Input impedance should be 10 MOhm instead of 0 MOhm.

Best regards,

Ignacio

--
Este correo electrónico ha sido analizado en busca de virus por el software antivirus de Avast.
www.avast.com
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Still think that an SOT-23 package is a bit small for 50mA with a 7V drop.
For a small increase in $$ an SOT-89 or SOT-223 package regulator would be a better choice.
You can not get much heat out of the SOT-23 or SOT-23-5 regulators due to the small leads.
That may be why they just provide the junction to ambient number in the data sheet.
The larger tab on the SOT-89 and SOT-223 gives them a better heat transfer to the plane, and you want one that has a ground tab, not a input or output tab like some regulators..
I am not sure the low noise aspect of the AP2210 would make much difference here.
Maybe its just my aerospace background taking over here, we usually did not have much room for temperature rise...

As far as the input noise is concerned, I tried a 3dB attenuator at the input and that did not help, so I would assume a high value resistor would not help either.
I found that with at least one nylon standoff the input was stable with no signal..
The board was OK with three of the ground connected standoffs but the 4th one initiated the noise problem.
It was quiet on the bench.

ed
5 files uploaded #file-notice

Group Notification
 

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io group.

By: Gerald <vk3gm@...>

Description:
Latest documents, uploaded in the YIG folder for the HP-8594E alternative YIG retrofit. 5 files. Excel for people to add/modify and PDF for ref.
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

Ok, I decided to use the cheaper Diodes Incorporated for the Vreg.

At a max ambient temperature of 55 deg C (From the 53132A Specifications), the max input voltage allowable by the vreg is 13.64V before hitting thermal shutdown.
So with a big ol' ground plane to sink heat into, I reckon it should be ok.



Jared
Re: Another 3GHz 53132-68003 Chanel 3 option design for the 53131A and 53132A

 

I'll double check the regulator to see if it will be ok. I have a big ground plane which should help, but I'll run more calculations to make sure it won't burn itself up.
It would have been nice if HP would have put that resistor in for the 5V by default for all instruments....

I wonder if a couple meg or tens of meg resistor or so at the input down to ground would help prevent spurious counts without affecting the actual operation too much?



Thanks!
8557A extender cards

 

Looking for extender cards for HP8557A, 10 way, 6 way , 22 way & if I'm lucky maybe the 32 contact extension service cable. Symptom is no SA? horizontal time base,
? ? ? ? ? ? Regards Brad?
? ?
Re: Book draft update

 

On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 10:36 AM, Mike wrote:
Set the option in your browser to ask you where to put the downloaded (saved) file.?
Yes! But, then I always forget where I saved it.?
Oh well, my mama told me, there'd be days like that... but, forgot to add there'd be lots.
Re: Book draft update

 

开云体育

Hi Stephen, It worked fine for me with Mozilla Firefox so maybe it was Norton.

?

Regards, John K1AE

?

John Allen

PC Support Solutions

Maynard, MA 01754

Mailto:John@...

M: 508 361-6229

?

From: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io [mailto:HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io] On Behalf Of Stephen Hanselman
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 6:26 PM
To: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Book draft update

?

i tried downloading on my iPad which only gave a blank page and continuous "wait" symbol.? So i switched to my computer using Mozilla which immediately gave a "suspect file".? I allowed it with an override and it seems to be coming in normally.? the error might ave been thrown by Norton but i think it was internal to Mozilla.? You must have a great connection because the data rate is impressive.

Thanks for the link, I'm looking forward to reading the book

Steve

Re: help repairing 8133a

 

开云体育

Hi,

?

The specification for output frequency accuracy is ±0.5%.

But there will also be some modulation, for a 500 MHz test it is around 14 kHz (112 kHz for YIG at 4 GHz) and frequency measured at 499.859MHz or -0.028%.

?

I haven't read the service manual in detail, but I assume that the YIG must be checked and stabilized by some system even if it is slow, I imagine that the integrated frequency counter would help with this stabilization.

If you use an external source, the frequency counter will show you a reading corresponding to the incoming signal. But you told me about error E008 which indicates that the frequency counter has a problem...with an external source, is this the case?

If the counter is functional with an external source, then the problem would be near the YIG, or the YIG itself...assuming the frequency counter is involved in some process of stabilizing the YIG.

If you had had an E110 type error this would possibly indicate a corruption of the EPROMs and calibration constants possibly linked to the YIG, but this is not the case.

Unfortunately, it would be necessary to check the DAC output up to the YIG, and the YIG output up to the 3 RF switches S1 and S2 which serves as a bypass for the divider by 2, and S3 which switches between an internal (YIG) and external source.

I can tell you that making these measurements will not be a simple task because the PCB involved is the one completely at the bottom of the RF section.

?

------------------------

?

Disassembly of the 8133A is really very painful and requires disassembling several mechanical parts such as the side supports of the frame as well as the rear panel. But I checked what was causing the CH2 output intermittent problem. I was able to test the RF relay independently on a VNA but still under the control of the 8133A driver and the circuit preceding the RF relay which was connected to the oscilloscope.

So, I simultaneously checked the behavior of the two circuits when powering up.

And there was no doubt, it was the relay that was at fault.

in the image, we can see that the frequency response is not flat, and that all low frequencies are very attenuated.

You will either have to find a replacement part or attempt a repair (I attempted a repair, but I was unable to open it...I stopped this task for the moment, so as not to risk damage it).

?

:Yves

De?: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io <HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io> De la part de Xtremexp
贰苍惫辞测é?: 7 octobre 2023 21:26
??: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Objet?: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] help repairing 8133a

?

Hi Yves,
your YIG clock frequency and output frequency text file is of great help. Today I step on each output clock setting and observe the clock frequency.?

The output clock is way off (wrong frequency and sometime have jitter) when YIG frequency is in ~2000MHz to ~2585MHz AND ~3600MHz to 4000MHz.?
My oscilloscope cannot go >1Ghz so I tested that from 31Mhz to 800MHz output frequency.?

Above issue is also indicated by the startup self test failing when I set output clock to 500Mhz. If I set instrument output clock to 700Mhz and restart the system then self test passes, That means instrument is checking the clock output and comparing with what's been set during startup. I checked this in several output frequency set points.

I really want to test the output clock when >2Ghz but my scope is that that capable. So Does it suggest some issue in the YIG output? either DAC is not setting correct voltage or YIG itself is gone bad??
Any other test can be done before I tear apart the device to probe the signals??

If its YIG then its dead end to repair may be, Now I am concerned.

Thanks

RF section.jpg
FAIL relay CH2.png
8133A FM modulation at 500 MHz.jpg

Re: Book draft update

 

开云体育

This is a great contribution for the next generations. I used to play with ART13 /BC348 as radio amateur many years ago. ART13 used the legendary 813 tuba and 2x811a modulating …. It has a frequency book with precise settings for VFO. The amplifier and multiplier tubes was 1625 and oscillator 837. There was an option for VLF oscillator too.?

Ing. Patricio A. Greco
Taller Aeronáutico de Reparación 1B-349
Organización de Mantenimiento Aeronáutico de la Defensa OMAD-001
Gral. Martín Rodríguez 2159
San Miguel (1663)
Buenos Aires
T:?+5411-4455-2557
F:?+5411-4032-0072

On 7 Oct 2023, at 13:04, Gianni Becattini via groups.io <Giovanni.becattini@...> wrote:

?Hi,
I posted on??the medium resolution latest draft (October 7) of my document about Hewlett-Packard products.
If you have problems with the download, I posted it also on?, but it stays there for a week only, I believe.

A big thank you to everyone who kindly provided me with their valuable help.

If you see there mistakes or just you want to contribute, you are welcome.

Re: Book draft update

 

i tried downloading on my iPad which only gave a blank page and continuous "wait" symbol.? So i switched to my computer using Mozilla which immediately gave a "suspect file".? I allowed it with an override and it seems to be coming in normally.? the error might ave been thrown by Norton but i think it was internal to Mozilla.? You must have a great connection because the data rate is impressive.

Thanks for the link, I'm looking forward to reading the book

Steve
Re: Book draft update

 

Wow! HP Porn! Looks like would make terrific coffee table book for hopelessly addicted HP aficionados. Lots of information and tips for repair and operation!
Re: Book draft update

 

Am 08.10.2023 um 20:15 schrieb EB4APL:

Hi Gianni,

First of all a big thank you for these marvelous books that you have gifted to us.
Add me. A fabulous book with nice photos.

I want to take to your attention that in the Hewlett Packard one there is an error in page 19, Input impedance should be 10 MOhm instead of 0 MOhm.
Page 122/123 is a duplicate of page 114/115.
Re: Book draft update

 

开云体育

Hi Gianni,

First of all a big thank you for these marvelous books that you have gifted to us.

I want to take to your attention that in the Hewlett Packard one there is an error in page 19, Input impedance should be 10 MOhm instead of 0 MOhm.

Best regards,

Ignacio



El 07/10/2023 a las 19:04, Gianni Becattini via groups.io escribió:
Hi,
I posted on??the medium resolution latest draft (October 7) of my document about Hewlett-Packard products.
If you have problems with the download, I posted it also on?, but it stays there for a week only, I believe.

A big thank you to everyone who kindly provided me with their valuable help.

If you see there mistakes or just you want to contribute, you are welcome.
_._,_._,_


Libre de virus.
Re: Book draft update

 

开云体育

Set the option in your browser to ask you where to put the downloaded (saved) file.? Then each time you download and save something you can put it where you like, like for example, “downloads/A suitable name”.? That way you can get to read it whenever you like.? Mine is downloading now and it about half-way through after perhaps 5 minutes!

?

73, Mike,

Mike Stevens,

G8CUL/M0CUL/F4VRB.

?

From: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io On Behalf Of Roy Thistle
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2023 5:28 PM
To: HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] Book draft update

?

On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 09:22 AM, Tom Phillips wrote:

If you attempt to simply open very large files and try to read the content on your device the results are often not good a

Yes... if you don't have ISP service, for the nervous (like fiber) than 'save as' usually gets the file. (Alas... but, now you have to find where it got saved to.)

Re: Book draft update

 

On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 09:22 AM, Tom Phillips wrote:
If you attempt to simply open very large files and try to read the content on your device the results are often not good a
Yes... if you don't have ISP service, for the nervous (like fiber) than 'save as' usually gets the file. (Alas... but, now you have to find where it got saved to.)
Re: Book draft update

 

On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 10:44 PM, Brian wrote:

Neither of the links produces any readable material. The webpage just produces a grey screen, the We Transfer link recognises your title but will not download anything.

Work in progress?

Hi Mr. Brian:
If you are clicking on the link...?
... your browser (Mine is Opera)... I reckon... is downloading in the background, and trying to display the pdf.? (You can click the browser's? 'downloads' icon to see if you've got a file transfer going.)
The grey screen (at least for Opera)... you are seeing in the tab,? means that not enough of the pdf? has downloaded, for the browser to display it. (It's big file, 1.7Gb ... and the speed is like trying to push a whale through a porthole... at least for me)
Usually (like in Opera) you can right click on the link, and save "the linked content" as whatever you want. (You want to save it as a pdf.)
Your browser might hang, disconnect, or otherwise boo, at the webserver... mileage (as reported) may vary... but persistence pays off... if not very economically.
Worth the trouble... yes... unless it's too much trouble.
Some nice pics... of old HP eye candy.
Best regards.
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