¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

  1. HP-Agilent-Keysight-Equipment
  2. Messages
Expanded Topics Messages
Date
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

It used to be that devices with RS-232 had negative supplies available, and +-12V were common levels seen.

Later people started using transceiver chips and a 7660 or similar capacitor charge pump to provide a negative supply.

Later still, people started using MAX232 transceivers with integral charge pumps.

Finally, we have effectively TTL level 5V/0V interfaces that can¡¯t drive a negative voltage at all, but might rely on protection diodes and/or resistors on receive lines. Even those, have sometimes become implementations that are 3.3V logic that is 5V tolerant.

When mixing new PCs with old equipment, the inability to drive a line negative for a zero from the PC side can certainly create problems. One would hope the implementation at least accepts the full input range with no damage to the port even if it doesn¡¯t work.

If you¡¯re in a hurry and have a well stocked junk box, I¡¯d suggest building an inline adapter to shift the modern PC levels to a +-12V interface. If time is more precious than money, then buy something already built.

You should be able to connect an oscilloscope to see what¡¯s expected.

I¡¯ve seen devices that just wouldn¡¯t work without driving a line below -3V for a zero and more than +3V for a one.

I¡¯ve also run into things like GPRS modem boards that required 5V TTL levels from an Arduino microcontroller, and using a 5V ¡°1¡± was required and a 5V tolerant 3.3V microcontroller just didn¡¯t work. For that, the fix was easy¡­cut a couple traces and glue a TXS0104 based level shifter to the board ?with the VIO pin supplying whatever voltage was expected on the microcontroller side.

Also noteworthy: some industrial single board computers may have serial ports with buffers built in, or the ones on an optional add-on daughtercard that stacks on top might have them where the onboard ports don¡¯t.
HP 8656B display issue

 

Guys I have a HP 8656B that has a lot digit on the display that remains on all the time.?

Example: 10.000 MHz reads ? ? ?.10.000 MHZ?

not sure if it may be a stuck something??

Andrew
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*

 

Hi all
Regarding Yig information and a X reference look in the Yig folder on this site

/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/YIG%20%20folder

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Don Bitters via groups.io
Sent: 16 March 2023 07:54
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*

Most of your assumptions are true, but if the end point voltages are not reasonably close you won¡¯t see output at either end. You might find that if you supplied a tuning voltage to the YIG somewhere in the middle of its tuning range you would possible find output from the YIG but off in frequency by as much as 1GHz or more. If the endpoints are not close and beyond the tune range of the YIG +/-, there will be little to no output from the YIG. Many of HP YIG choice were either 3Vdc/GHz tune voltage, there is also another spec. of mA/GHz, but I cannot recall that now. There also exist 1Vdc/GHz tuning voltage YIG¡¯s.
Don Bitters
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

Hello again Candrian.

Sadly I do not know enough about those hardware options, to say for sure.? But if I had to recommend anything, I'd go for the HPIB(GPIB) interface designed for that analyser, if you can find one, and one of the common USB(or LAN) to GPIB adapters/controllers, there are several to choose from.

If your PC OS is Windows, go for the National Instruments device, and companion drivers.? Very well known, and works very well.
(NOTE!? NI are changing how they support "non current" products, so take care with them.)
Many people like NI's LabView (not me personally) and there is a lot of third party software out there that expects to use a NI interface.?? ? for one.

Or, the HP/Agilent equivalent, but using it's own native software (HP VEE) and drivers.? They might "Look" similar, and perform the same functions.? But, you CANNOT use NI drivers with the Agilent device, or the other way round.

If you use Linux in any flavour, there are ways to graft in the kernel needs for the NI devices, and there is some good code around using Python (in one form or another) to get work done.? The fun bit, is getting the OS to recognise and load drivers for the device itself.? It has even been done on a Raspberry Pi!

Then there are the Prologix devices (or the many look-alikes) as they don't actually have installable "drivers" as such, they appear to the OS as either a virtual serial port (USB connected types) or an address on your home/workshop LAN.
There are many DIY versions of the former, for example the AR488 Arduino based project.? For most people, they work well enough. Just don't expect to get anywhere close to the fabled 1 Mega Byte a second transfer rate, even if your instrument could do that.

The LAN connected GPIB adapters are possibly the most flexible. Both need some software skill's to deploy and make work, though lots of other people have done it.?? The LAN type's, of course can be used by any PC on your LAN if you need (but generally NOT at the same time!)? Of course, if you don't have a wired LAN, not a lot of use without some more kit.? (There are ways, but...)

If you have one instrument only, they are fairly easy to use.? If you have multiple that you need to use together to form a system, there is some more software work to do, to point the controller at the instrument you want to exchange data with.? Some of the documentation is a bit vague on that subject!

If you are not already, you WILL become fluent in whatever programming language you end up using, as well as "GPIB speek". Creating a system to do a job, and making it all work as you wish/need, is very satisfying.? But oh so frustrating at times! Don't assume all instrument (or software) documentation is 100% accurate either!? Also use good quality GPIB/HPIB cables, and take care of them.? (Personal experience from 30 odd years working with GPIB instruments etc for work...)

As we say, "The Devil is in the Detail"?? And there are lots of small details that you have to get correct for things to work.? Any one wrong, and often, nothing will work, or you get bad data or weird instrument behaviour!

(Hint:? ALWAYS check the error flags and status words!? And handle such errors, even if that is just to stop execution of your software, but put a meaningful message up for the luckless user when that happens! ...)

Above all, have fun!.? Instrument control over any interface, can be a deep rabbit hole to get lost in!

??? Dave G8KBV

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*

 

Most of your assumptions are true, but if the end point voltages are not reasonably close you won¡¯t see output at either end. You might find that if you supplied a tuning voltage to the YIG somewhere in the middle of its tuning range you would possible find output from the YIG but off in frequency by as much as 1GHz or more. If the endpoints are not close and beyond the tune range of the YIG +/-, there will be little to no output from the YIG. Many of HP YIG choice were either 3Vdc/GHz tune voltage, there is also another spec. of mA/GHz, but I cannot recall that now. There also exist 1Vdc/GHz tuning voltage YIG¡¯s.
Don Bitters
Re: 5086-7337 *Yig Oscillator issue*

 

Recently I've resolved the burnt T1 transformer issue on the mainframe. You can see that in my older 8350B post. I think the mainframe is now ok, but the definitive confirmation is try to operate a healthy plugin. I've already think on that, Paul.?

Until that happens, I think I will do the tracking generator conversion, Don't need 20 gig sig gen in a hurry, I've already have a trusty (and hacked) 8341A. So TG for the moment, later on a healthy plugin to test the proper operation of the mainframe and then I'll do more study on the YO and the other acronyms present in the war.

Regards,
Ruben
Re: HP 312A wave analyser

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

For that generation of instrument, my first guess would be CdS. These are light-controlled resistors, so photodiodes/phototransistors would not be acceptable subs in most cases.

-- Cheers
Tom
(btw, it's silicon, not silicone. Just remember "silicon valley" is for chips, "silicone valley" is Hollywood)
-- 
Prof. Thomas H. Lee
Allen Ctr., Rm. 205
420 Via Palou Mall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4070
On 3/15/2023 21:15, Brad Latta via groups.io wrote:

I have recently acquired an old HP 312A wave analyser, which has been sitting around in a lab with little use. I would like to know about the photo conductor block ( P/N 1990-0009 & 5212-B3H, that drives the Borroughs B5991 nixie tubes -130V rail.?
The photo conductors are themselves driven by NE-2E4 neons in a transistor flip flop circuit. If the photo conductor fails, is it germainiam, silicone, or selenium? or what device could be substituted for a potential fault? Could I use a opto- coupler maybe? Or an IR receiver sensor?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Regards Brad
HP 312A wave analyser

 

I have recently acquired an old HP 312A wave analyser, which has been sitting around in a lab with little use. I would like to know about the photo conductor block ( P/N 1990-0009 & 5212-B3H, that drives the Borroughs B5991 nixie tubes -130V rail.?
The photo conductors are themselves driven by NE-2E4 neons in a transistor flip flop circuit. If the photo conductor fails, is it germainiam, silicone, or selenium? or what device could be substituted for a potential fault? Could I use a opto- coupler maybe? Or an IR receiver sensor?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Regards Brad
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 06:05 AM, Dave_G0WBX wrote:
Set the PC up so that RealTerm just dumps what comes in to the screen.? 9600, n, 8, 1 should be a good start.
Hi,

I just tried the COPY button and I received a bunch of characters on my RealTerm . So it seems you are right Dave maybe option 023 is only for outgoing messages and no option for remote controlling the device. Do you know if i can install option 043? Is there a card that i can plug in and upgrade the scope for remote controlling??

Thanks,
Candrian
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

How much room on the 'other' side from the 90 deg bend?

Would something like this:



be made to fit with a bit of a spacer under the hexagonal end? Not cheap however at 3.62 quid per nF!

On 15/03/2023 15:25, Martin via groups.io wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking for a replacement for a shorted feedthrough capacitor for my SNA1 Wandel & Goltermann analyzer. It seems special in that it is very thin on the interiours side, where the bended wire is. I cannot find anything like that on the internt. Below some pics (metric scale!).

The parts list says 8c20 / 0855-0020.0008 / C-Keramik / ZZMZ / 4N7 / 20/80 / 63V.
So its a 4n7 ceramic capacitor with 63V rating. In the SNA this capacitor is handling a 12V supply line.

Does anyone have a similar item in his drawer?

thanks
Martin

Attachments:
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

You probably have to enter it on the german site, I don't know.

Its a guy who sells 5 PCM testers for 370 EUR. He bought them for the sole purpose of having parts for his NFAs...

cheers
Martin
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

Well, yes, just one instrument for both of us would be fine.... But no, thanks.

Cheers....

On 15/03/2023 17:58, Martin via groups.io wrote:
Hi Harke,

item #294954912663 on a well known auction site would probably yield a good stock of these.

Not a bargain, unfortunately.

cheers
Martin
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

That item doesn't show up as anything. What was it?

On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 05:58:00PM +0100, Martin via groups.io wrote:
Hi Harke,

item #294954912663 on a well known auction site would probably yield a good stock of these.

Not a bargain, unfortunately.

cheers
Martin
--
Paul Amaranth, GCIH | Manchester MI, USA
Aurora Group of Michigan, LLC | Security, Systems & Software
paul@... | Unix/Linux - We don't do windows
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

Hi Harke,

item #294954912663 on a well known auction site would probably yield a good stock of these.

Not a bargain, unfortunately.

cheers
Martin
Re: Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello Martin,


I immediately recognized this feed-through capacitor. Seems typical for WG as my Rauschpegelsender RS100 has the same. One showed a short and as I considered it as unobtanium, I just removed this cap and installed a wire. Not so nice but it works. In the RS100 it is used as connector to supply + 12 V to a pcb with the noise generator. I guess the mechanical force in the end destroyed this feed-through cap.

Obviously: if you find a source, please let me know.

Best regards,

Harke

On 15-3-2023 16:25, Martin via groups.io wrote:

Hi all,

I'm looking for a replacement for a shorted feedthrough capacitor for my SNA1 Wandel & Goltermann analyzer. It seems special in that it is very thin on the interiours side, where the bended wire is. I cannot find anything like that on the internt. Below some pics (metric scale!).

The parts list says 8c20 / 0855-0020.0008 / C-Keramik / ZZMZ / 4N7 / 20/80 / 63V.
So its a 4n7 ceramic capacitor with 63V rating. In the SNA this capacitor is handling a 12V supply line.

Does anyone have a similar item in his drawer?

thanks
Martin
Looking for a feedthrough capacitor

 

Hi all,

I'm looking for a replacement for a shorted feedthrough capacitor for my SNA1 Wandel & Goltermann analyzer. It seems special in that it is very thin on the interiours side, where the bended wire is. I cannot find anything like that on the internt. Below some pics (metric scale!).

The parts list says 8c20 / 0855-0020.0008 / C-Keramik / ZZMZ / 4N7 / 20/80 / 63V.
So its a 4n7 ceramic capacitor with 63V rating. In the SNA this capacitor is handling a 12V supply line.

Does anyone have a similar item in his drawer?

thanks
Martin
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

Hi again.

I pulled a manual from:-


After a lot of scrolling and reading, sadly, the only references I can see for the RS232 port, is to attach a printer/plotter to, to make printed copies of the screen and other data.

There is no command/response protocol listing, that you'd expect if it was capable of being remote controled/programmed via that port. (Option 043, correct?)

I can find no mention of using it for remote control/programming of the analyser from a PC.

For that, you'd need "Option 041" the HPIB interface.? (That can also be used with plotters, but obviously only HPIB devices.)? And I'd bet that comes with a seperate manual that will detail all the commands and responses etc.

Try reconfiguring your serial link, to that the analyser can send data to the PC.? I think it is only capable of 9600bd, so you can probably loop back the handshake and status lines so that the analyser is happy all the time.? The PC should be more than fast enough to swallow 9600bd data without issue.

Set the PC up so that RealTerm just dumps what comes in to the screen.? 9600, n, 8, 1 should be a good start.

You'll probably see loads of garbage when you initiate a plot/print from the analyser, that is OK.

I'm not saying you "Can't" use the RS232 to remote control/program the instrument, just that "I still don't know" if that is possible, based on the info I've found so far (link above.)

Regards.

??? Dave G8KBV.

--
Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software:
Re: HP 8341A how to install attenuator

 

Thank's for the information,? finally we have succeed? ?comparing one 8341A with another having an attenuator, now the unit control the attenuator nicely, obviously the explanation in service manual are quite obscure for me and it is quite difficult to understand how to compute the value to store.
but finally I have done it thank's for your explanations
ON1EV
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

Thank your for valuable notes.

What I did try yesterday was to clear DTR (PC) <-> CTS(SA) and set RTS (PC) <-> DCD (SA) but I didn't observed the L letter on bottom left but nothing.?
I'll try the COPY option you suggested to check if I can receive data.?
Re: HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Correction ¨C to the lines in the message below

?

To get an L, SA CTS must not be asserted, because T will obscure the L.

Then SA DCD must be asserted (+).

?

If both CTS and DCD on the SA are asserted, i.e. when the pc port is open normally, only T will appear

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of k1ggi
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 10:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

?

Ok, getting the T is reassuring.

?

To get an L, SA RTS must not be asserted, because T will obscure the L.

Then SA DCD must be asserted (+).

?

If both RTS and DCD on the SA are asserted, i.e. when the pc port is open normally, only T will appear.

?

Please look at the voltage.

?

Do you see a positive voltage on SA DCD (DB25 pin 8)? (produced when pc RTS is asserted on pc DE9 pin 7)

?

That is necessary for commands to be recognized by the SA.

?

I have option 043, your option 023 may behave differently, but if you can configure your COPY button to plot to rs232 in CONFIG, then the SA should be able to transmit rs232 data when you press COPY, regardless of whether it can receive rs232 commands.

So then if you see the T, with your RealTerm port open, pressing COPY should transmit a lengthy burst of ascii plot data that should be displayed by RealTerm. That may be worth trying.

?

I¡¯m still not sure if your pc usb-rs232 adapter needs its DSR (DE9 pin6) asserted in order to transmit. I¡¯m suspicious that the chip may need that control signal asserted in hardware even if the RealTerm software application is configured for no hardware flow control. My FTDI adapter does not. Try tying the adapter pin 6 to pin 8 (both driven by SA DTR pin 20).

?

Ed

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of candrian
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2023 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment] HP 8595E SA DB-25 RS232 is not functioning.

?

Just a correction here.

The connections I have made are:

SA? ? ? ? ? ? ? PC (USB RS232 adapter)

P1. GND? ? ?Unconnected

P2. TxD? ? ? RxD

P3. RxD? ? ? TxD

P4. RTS? ? ? DCD

P5. CTS? ? ? DTR? ?(measured -6V coming from the adapter)

P6. unconnected

P7. GND? ? ?GND

P8. DCD? ? ?RTS

P20. DTR? ?CTS

So when I said that I set DTR I meant DTR on PC side which is connected to CTS on SA. So when I set SA DTR thus the CTS on SA side I see the T letter on bottom left of the SA screen.
When I set or clear RTS on PC thus DCD on SA side oI can't notice any difference or the L letter appearing.?

In both options and all possible combinations of DTR & RTS in PC side I couldn't manage to send any commands and receive a response.?

I tried the following commands:
IP;
ID;
SNGLS;
*IDN?
18641 - 18660 of 151671